The overall lethality of the spell for immolation-specced wizards is being reduced, but the usefulness and power of the spell for non-specialized wizards is being increased. The chance to incinerate (instant kill) a target is now calculated as a seed 1 summation of ((lore ranks - 10) / 2), but with a reduced chance for any warding result that is less than 150. The penalty is calculated at 2% per 1 WM. So if the wizard had a base 10% chance to incinerate the target, but the warding result was 125, the chance would be reduced to 5%. With 192 lore ranks, the base chance is 13%.

When not EVOKEd, the base damage of the spell has been increased. Training in Elemental Lore, Fire will now provide a % chance for one additional crit cycle, determined by (lore ranks / 1.5), so at 100 ranks, there is a 66% chance, and at 150 ranks, there is a 100% chance. The spell may also now be CHANNELed for increased damage, when one or more of the wizard's hands are empty and they are in an offensive stance. Lastly, when the spell is not EVOKEd, it will no longer cause RoundTime to the target, with the exception of players who manually choose to roll around on the ground in an attempt to extinguish the immolate effect. However, the spell can be EVOKEd to still cause RoundTime (in exchange for the decreased damage potential). This allows a wizard to optionally use the spell to disable or as an effective warding attack spell.

GameMaster Estild

519 really doesn't disable anything.

The flames surrounding a frozen corpse flare up violently...
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to right hand. Ouch.

The flames around a frozen corpse continue to burn!
A frozen corpse rolls around on the ground, trying to smother the flames that surround it.
The flames surrounding a frozen corpse continue to burn.
A frozen corpse's eyes glow with a dull blue light!
A frozen corpse swings a large ice pick at you!
You gracefully avoid the attack!

The flames around a frozen corpse continue to burn!
A frozen corpse grimaces as she fumbles helplessly with her ice pick.
The flames surrounding a frozen corpse flare up violently...
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

The flames around a frozen corpse continue to burn!
A frozen corpse drags herself northeast, wailing in exquisite ecstasy.


It's on fire... and it can attack.. stand up, get a weapon, and walk away. Disable what? Plenty of critters exhibit this behavior. They completely ignore the fact they're on fire. The disabling aspect of this spell is very unreliable.

A shan warrior rolls around on the ground, trying to smother the flames that surround it.
A shan warrior struggles to rise but fails in the attempt.
>l
[Vornavian Coast, Forest Road]
Bushes close in around the path here, and appear to persist on the path in spite of being regularly cut back. Brambles and thorn bushes sport vibrant flowers, but bite and tear at anyone or anything coming too close. You also see the yellow Drafix disk, a gleaming silver flamberge and a shan warrior that is lying down.
Obvious paths: north, south
The flames surrounding a shan warrior flare up violently...
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to back. Looks uncomfortable.

The flames around a shan warrior continue to burn!
A shan warrior struggles to rise but fails in the attempt.
The flames surrounding a shan warrior flare up violently...
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to right leg. That hurts a bit.

The flames around a shan warrior continue to burn!
A shan warrior struggles to rise but fails in the attempt.
The flames surrounding a shan warrior flare up violently...
... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to back. Looks uncomfortable.
The shan warrior howls out one last time and dies.



Still moving when on fire. Are you sure it's applying RT. Doesn't seem like anything works... except the nerfs...

Drafix

Still moving when on fire.

Please post a complete log, from cast until the spell wears off.

GameMaster Estild

Methais

I realize it's an ice creature and the "on fire" effect doesn't apply, as shown in the messaging. But shouldn't the initial RT still be applying? This is evoke btw.

No, as the disabling effect is due to the creature rolling around trying to extinguish the flame.

GameMaster Estild

Doug,

I've lost track of the thread where I said I would give 912-Call Wind a try in place of 519-Immolation (disabler) vs. the temple sentries. 912 is effective in knocking them over and making my bolts more effective but the sentries still like to cast their spells, even when laying down. As a result, I don't see this as an effective replacement for 519 (assuming you are able to effectively ward the sentries to begin with). However, I have started using 912 in place of 519 for the sirens since all I was really looking for with 519 was to make them easier bolt targets anyway.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 100

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 75

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 101

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

What kind of effectiveness are you getting with 912?

I tried switching from 410 to 912 in Stone trolls/giants and it ended up with me getting messed up a few times. My 410 works about 85% of the time (I'm uphunting the giants a bit) but 912 is closer to 70%. That's with 30 ranks in 900's and 55 ranks of air lore.

Sirens are quite susceptible to sleep (501) and I only have 75 ranks in that circle. Sentries were something I avoided before and continue to avoid.

>> Sirens are quite susceptible to sleep (501) and I only have 75 ranks in that circle. Sentries were something I avoided before and continue to avoid.

The thing I like about immolate is you get stun plus on the ground and/or shield droppage . Call wind puts them on the ground and stances them. Sleep is just on the ground but no stance or other effect (is there an extra penalty because they are asleep???). I think its about 13 mana to cast sleep on a siren so it's really comparable to the other options on the mana side of things, especially with the drop in mana cost for immolation. I think my sleep success rate on sirens is like 100% though (I tend to sleep them and leave them when I know others are looking for them for bounties).

I used to avoid sentries and GWEs for the most part. Since I've managed to beef up my TD over the past year or two to the point where sentries now have trouble warding me I don't worry about it as much. Basically for sentries I'll throw 1-2 casts of immolation which will disable them most of the time (80% ish chance to ward on each cast) and if I fail both immolation casts or more than 1 things is in the room with it then I'll just move on (plenty more where that one came from).

I still generally avoid GWEs because they have the ability to insta-kill me with one their abilities, especially if I am encumbered. If I'm not encumbered I'll usually move on if there is nothing else in the room of interest (e.g. bounty critter) or take them down with fire ball if there is (the flare damage is often better than the initial ball cast). I need to do more experimenting with Call Wind on them since once the GWE is on the ground it's next action is almost always just to stand back up. Quite frequently I can knock them down with the fire ball or fire ball splash but not often enough that I would rely on it while encumbered.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

>> The problem with this strategy is if everyone employs it, it greatly increases the danger for those left hunting the area with pre-spawned and now angry creatures ready to implode on sight.

I guess I wasn't clear. I'm leaving before they have a chance to prep if I am leaving the room.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

>> How does that align with "and if I fail both immolation casts"?

I'm not feeling picked on specifically. I'll try and clarify my hunting strategy a bit more.

I do a lot of PEERing before I enter any room, especially in the area where sentrys/GWEs frequent vs. the popular approach which is running around at supersonic speed with ;wander turned on (which is far more likely to setup an angry sentry with a prepared spell by the way).

If I see a sentry in the next room I will very often let it come to me unless it is alone.

If a sentry wanders into your room you can easily get off two casts of immolation prior to it preparing/casting a spell. If it is immolated then I can simply finish it off. If after two casts it is not immolated then I can move away prior to it casting or preparing a spell. No angry/prepped sentry in this scenario.

If the sentry is alone then I'll move in and cast immolate. Yup, there's a chance it might cast or prepare something. If immolate doesn't work and it hasn't cast prepped I may move on or I may just stick it out and see what happens. Depends on my mood/time of day/what I'm hunting/etc. It it does prep something I can dispel it and then move on or simply try and finish it off. Again, depends on my mood at the time.

>> Not picking on you specifically, but this strategy just doesn't seem to be beneficial to anyone or address the issue of insufficiently reliable disablers.

Sentrys are arguably the hardest thing there is in the temple (or a close 2nd to GWEs depending on your class). They are extremely hard to ward. The current disabler version of immolation works pretty much without fail on everything in the temple with the exception of sentrys (and possibly GWEs which I hardly ever cast immolation on so don't recall what they ward at). I think it is reasonable to say that a disabler spell that works very well on sirens, combatants, executioners, radicals, dissemblers, magus, and defenders nearly all of the time and works on sentrys ~80% of the time fits in the reliable disabler spell category.

If I chose to, I could improve my chances by another 10% or more by utilizing heavy quartz orbs, training my Major Elt above 100, or invest in enhancives to increase my CS. It's something I've considered but my current strategy works 'well enough' for me at present (80% x 2 means I'm not walking away most of the time anyway and I've trained such that throwing out an extra 15-30 mana here and there isn't a concern).

Alternatively, I could choose to use call wind and make judicious use of dispel against sentrys (which requires no warding to remove their prepared spell) but I don't like letting them cast their non-prepped spells at me even with my improved TD.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

<<are people who are leaving/loudly complaining usually dependent on wander or even bigshot for hunting? sincere question

While we probably can't ever say for sure, I'm betting no. Most of our speedsters actually move faster than (or as fast as) a script can. Bigshot's a bit too persnickity for use in capped areas anyway. Wander, I suppose, can be tuned to be much more efficient.

OTF is the outlier perhaps, since it has a much larger area in general, and specific subzones.

Doug

>I suspect some would put reliable only at 100% - and I can understand that. But I won't agree with it, risk is a necessary evil.

And I won't agree with that, when 100% reliable is achievable for post-cap pures of every other class.

Which 100% reliable disabler do you think Empaths have? 1108 doesn't work on undead, and sometimes it just shoots the creature to the next room. 214 costs too much mana to use at cap.

Rishi
- Player of Kembal

---

Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."


[Roll result: -2112 (open d100: 82)]
A giantman thief crouches and sweeps a leg at you, but only manages to trip himself.

I haven't played with it much, but I think people have stated that Searing Light (135) has a 100% disable rate if you can ward the target. With proper training, outside spells, and enhancives, the argument is that you can attain that 100% success rate.

https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Searing_Light_(135)

---

It would be nice to know the exact formula used for disablers like Elemental Wave, Call Wind, Tremors, etc. I don't think that being able to see all the factors involved in casting a CS spell should be an inherent advantage over a maneuver based spell. Obfuscation should not be used as a balancing tactic. If wizards could efficiently maximize their training in order to achieve 100% success rates with these spells, assuming it is already possible with maneuver-based disablers, it shouldn't be seen as any more unbalancing than it is to do so with CS-based disablers.

>I haven't played with it much, but I think people have stated that Searing Light (135) has a 100% disable rate if you can ward the target. With proper training, outside spells, and enhancives, the argument is that you can attain that 100% success rate. - Observer

I like 135, but it being in our minor circle means that I'm not going to fully train to maximize its CS until way post-cap. So warding targets isn't a given. Outside spells are going to vary based on hunting ground (i.e. not going to work in the Rift).

But this is crazy...in terms of mass disablers, you guys are comparing a 35th level spell to 10th and 12th level spells. I would expect a 35th level spell to do better. My question is, how does 435 work as a mass disabler? Does it frequently fail to knock down targets?

Rishi
- Player of Kembal

---

Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."


[Roll result: -2112 (open d100: 82)]
A giantman thief crouches and sweeps a leg at you, but only manages to trip himself.

>>But this is crazy...in terms of mass disablers, you guys are comparing a 35th level spell to 10th and 12th level spells. I would expect a 35th level spell to do better. My question is, how does 435 work as a mass disabler? Does it frequently fail to knock down targets?

Crazy? Crazy, you say?!

Well, yeah, kinda. In fact, I'm really struggling with this 'revelation'. I don't profess to be the end-all, be-all empath player, but I don't know of very many capped hunting empaths that would purposefully maximize the CS potential of the minor sphere over the empathic sphere. Maybe I am crazy, but I don't see that happening. Ever. Enhanced or not.

To answer your question directly, though, Rishi - 435 and 135 is an apt comparison, with the only difference seeming to be the elemental SMR against the more classic spiritual CS. So it can be hard to do an accurate comparison. In my experience, 435 is one of the last spells I would pull out of the Elf's hat. Way too much potential for 3F (friendly fire fatality), in my view.

If there were a 'design flaw' worthy of the name and ensuing discussion, I'd have to say it's the potential for up to +45 (although more realistically probably +25 to +30) CS added by Spirit Slayer. Wizards don't have a corresponding SMR-based increase spell that could affect their Stomp (909) or Waves (410 / 435 / 912?). I'm not sure that's a significant gap, mind you. Most of the wizard's 'improvement spell' types tend to deal with AS, crit or temporal factors. It's a trade-off.

The bigger complication as pointed out by Observer is the net effect of not seeing, being able to gauge improvement to, and plotting to successfully influence (maximize) the end result. While I'm not necessarily in support of exposing all game information, the knock-on effect is when the wizard tries, fails, and has no feedback on which to base further decisions the spell likely will not be attempted again and is automatically no where's near as effective as any other spell the tabulated results of which can be seen.

That part makes sense - if I can't see how to manipulate it, the spell isn't as reliable - that's where I'm thinking the 135 reliability argument is going to land, ultimately.

Doug

It really boils down to enhancements as well. You cannot enhance your skill with maneuver-based spells. At least not Wizard ones, once you hit cap. It seems like Call Wind would be better served to lose the %chance at cyclones and instead have increased effectiveness the more air lore you possess.

"Training in Elemental Lore, Water will cause targets to have a reduced maneuver defense based on a linear formula involving skill bonus. The specifics are unknown, but 90 skill (20 ranks) is enough to overcome the defensive bonus provided by the spell Empathic Focus (1109) and continued skill increases further improve this bonus without diminishing returns."

That's for E-wave.

Why not set something similar up for Call Wind, but instead of reducing maneuver defense, it begins to negate the level difference between you and the caster?

Rishi, Player of Kembal

I have to admit, the idea of 240 + 135 never crossed my mind until just now.

Spirit Slayer (240) doesn't work with mass effect spells.

GameMaster Estild