<<Dead wrong, and we can go back into the archives and quote every time I have done this which is about every single post I make, sometimes even to the point of ignoring the topic at hand to explain why I believe that something in particular you have said lacks depth for whatever reason......>>

The problem I'm having is when you make assertive comments like "I have proven all your points wrong." or "Your points lack depth". While there is nothing wrong with making these claims, indeed I have made some of them myself, it obligates you to demonstrate or at least attempt to explain why this particular assertion is the case. I notice you have a tendency to proclaim things as being so, then expect everybody to understand exactly what you mean, or trust that people will beleive you.

Like I said above nothing wrong with asserting or proclaiming something, but it's rather annoying when you don't bother to explain how or why. Or when you resort to saying things like "I can go back and show you, but I just don't feel like it" or "I don't need to explain because it's obvious". Obviously it isn't obvious and obviously you need to show me, because, I, at the very least, perhaps others, havn't a clue to what your talking about.

Actually, perhaps, others are seeing the exact opposite.


<<But again this takes us off topic and to quote myself on each of my previous posts is also taking away from the topic at hand.>>

Agreed, however in fairness, if you're not willing to take the time to explain and attempt to demonstrate how you've "proven all my points are wrong", then you really shouldn't derail the discussion with inflammatory assertions. That's my only gripe, and in honesty, it's not that big a deal.

<<Agree except for the last sentence. Good and evil even on Elanthia is open to perception.>>

Everything is open to perception, but our varrying perceptions never change what is "real" and what is "actual". Just because I don't see that last step, dosn't mean I won't fall on my face when I miss it. :)

<<What one may call evil another may call shades of grey. Now I think the dark aspects are definately digging a little deeper when it comes to the things that I would think are evil but then how many player characters really exhibit the traits of a dark aspect and mimic those upon the mortal world? None. Why? Because they would be banned lol.>>

I'm not sure what you consider to be "evil deeds", but I've seen plenty of "evil" done by other characters in the realms. Players who pick-pocket out of greed, and malice, players who graverob, players who rip off other players in the markets, and in general players who RP evil deeds. While the last example isn't a problem OOC, in character it's just as viable an action as one that violates policy.

Brittany (...the player of Aspasia Undojen'pelci)

"If ever the Darkness should conquer the Light, the last gleam shall come from the uplifted blade of one of a righteous Paladin."

Sir Cleworth, paladin initiation speech.

>Agreed, however in fairness, if you're not willing to take the time to explain and attempt to demonstrate how you've "proven all my points are wrong", then you really shouldn't derail the discussion with inflammatory assertions. That's my only gripe, and in honesty, it's not that big a deal.<

Now your just annoying me. I didn't say I proved all your points wrong, what I did say is that everytime you have given a point that I didn't agree with, I most definately gave you reasons as to why I disagreed. There were no inflammatory assertions...in fact there were no assertions at all. Demonstration has been done in each and every one of my posts. Go back and re-review for yourself because no I'm not going to waste time with quotes from all of them.

>I'm not sure what you consider to be "evil deeds", but I've seen plenty of "evil" done by other characters in the realms. Players who pick-pocket out of greed, and malice, players who graverob, players who rip off other players in the markets, and in general players who RP evil deeds. While the last example isn't a problem OOC, in character it's just as viable an action as one that violates policy.<

If pickpocketing, graverobbing, and conning are what you consider evil, then Aspasia is extremely naive, and before you take that as a flame as well, thats not the case. I'm simply trying to say that those examples are only scratching the surface of what is evil. I've known of only two people that truly played evil characters one of which was Arctuniol (kudos), and believe me when I say that these people aren't exactly in the favor of the GMs. But roleplaying evil should not have rl mechanic based consequences unless the person doing so is conflicting with policy. If not then the only reprocussions they see should be ones they have to face in the world of Elanthia through social interactions among the people or players there.

There are no true worshippers of the dark aspects because everyone knows there is no benefit for doing so. Socially the person will be outcast, there not going to win any RP points for it, its definately nog going to win them favor with the GMs, etc. etc. It's something that was created to look at but not really follow which in my oppinion lacks depth because thats an entire side of RP that has not and for the most part cannot be explored which gives light oriented people such as yourself purpose in the first place. But instead we have been reduced to providing justice to petty theft, and service as the town guard...somehow I don't think that was what anyone, mortal or immortal, had in mind for the Paladin.


Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier

Let's condense this whole debate:

1. EVERYTHING is relative

2. Some believe the ends justify the means, others do not

3. He/She who controls the definitions, controls the debate

And finally:

To hunt/fight/battle what may, or may not be, intelligent, civilized, non-PC creatures, one MUST apparently be a dark/fallen/neutral/grey Paladin, because for a "light" paladin to do so would open a world of "What ifs" and "Wherefore" questions that could be made to create inconsistencies within the assertion of a "light" philosophy.

Therefore:

Truly "light" Paladins cannot "play" the game.

Sheesh! <grins>

Gloryarm

<<1. EVERYTHING is relative>>

This will get you in trouble every time. Everything is relative to what? everything else? But you've already included everything in the first statement, so everything else is nothing, so then everything is relative to nothing?

Also, this is a fantasy world. It is possible for civilized beings to be evil. You know what makes these beings evil? The people in charge saying so. Neither you, me, nor anyone else can argue with it. It's their world and if they say something exists in the world, then it exists.

Dandon

"If they ever come up with a swashbuckling School, I think one of the courses should be Laughing, Then Jumping Off Something" ~ Jack Handy

Folks,

This topic is Paladins and the Gods They Serve, the Comments thread is way off course.

As all parties participating have had ample time to voice their opinions and state their positions including the comic summary team, it's now over.

Questions or comments - take it to e-mail, MOD-Annwyl@Play.net or Senior Board Monitor DR-Redryn@Play.net or Senior Board Monitor DR-Emony@Play.net.


MOD-Annwyl