I think safe rooms and no-steal rooms should go the way of the dodo. The only purpose they serve is to baby the player base. There is nothing more frustrating then someone talking trash in a safe room just because they know you can't do anything.


Just make it harder to steal in certain places (like huge penalty for trying to steal in places like the bank).

>>Harassment policy actually does not stop someone from gravecamping you.


I'd say if you're getting camped so badly that you feel the need to crawl to a safe-room the GM's will step in to coddle you.

It'd be a very rare situation that someone could just chain-kill you at a depart spot until you're crying at your keyboard with no other options.

<<Personally, it seems to me that the arguments for not having steal rooms and safe rooms sounds like the very reason TF was created.>>

And personally, is seems to me that the arguments for keeping them sound like the very reason consent policy was created.

Just saying.

<<the small chance of delayed "satisfaction" has driven this massive hostility to safe rooms>>

No, the frequent delayed satisfaction coupled with rampant abuse and a near-total lack of IC or OOC reasoning behind the mechanics and room placement has caused a slow buildup of hostility toward them.

<<that does not seem to be enough for you since you want it "now" rather than have to wait until the offender comes out>>

Is there any particular reason that whoever makes it to the safe room first should decide when the conflict can move forward?

<<Because an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure\.>>

Well there's the heart of the matter. I throughly disagree, but I'd be perfectly happy if the GMs decided to abandon the safe room removal idea in exchange for the removal of consent policy. You can keep your ounce of prevention.

---

"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf

Several times now you've said that the outright prevention of violence afforded by safe rooms is better/more important than the fear of punishment imposed by consent policy. "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure".

I view both as sometimes useful but often misused, abused, and very OOC aspects of the game, and of the two I think consent/reporting is the more common obstacle to RP. In light of that, if I had to choose one or the other to get rid of my vote would be for consent policy as a whole.

People are entitled to some protection from unwanted conflict, I'll give you that. However, you can't have your cake and eat it too - there should either be designated safe areas (with IC messaging and restrictions to prevent abuse) that act as a haven for people truly uninterested in conflict, OR a gamewide policy that prevents people from initiating a violent conflict without prelude.

I opted out of consent policy protection way back when I set all my characters to Open, and I've never used a safe room during a conflict, so trust me when I say it's easily doable.

---

"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf

Frankly, I like having a place without violence to chill with my friends. If people start popping off at the mouth to each other, it isn't that hard to just walk away from it. How often would you honestly get in a fight and risk going to jail over someone calling your momma a street corner special?

---

>bluff silv
You realize you have no idea how to bluff an unintelligent beast like the Leader Silvyrfrost.

If you want a place to hang out with no violence, make friends with a Cleric. At 88th circle my Meraud's commune will last almost 4.5 hours. No idea how long BoT or the Bard's non-violence chant last.

If you feel that strongly, may want to carry around incense, flint and some holy water since activating the commune requires those items.

Lets split prime into 2 realms one PvP and one not!

Problem solve PvP won't ruin game play for others.

Or do we have that with Fallen?

DO get rid of PvP in prime!

>> If people start popping off at the mouth to each other, it isn't that hard to just walk away from it.

You're free to walk away from it then. Not everyone's character would.

>> How often would you honestly get in a fight and risk going to jail over someone calling your momma a street corner special?

Depends. How often do I fire moonlasers from my ass IRL? The overtones of your question do not apply to this setting very well.

>> So the same problem is going to exist of George running and hiding after mouthing off and giving you consent.

Kind of like you did to me?

Some of us are patient, however.

---

Rev. Reene

<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate

Things that don't give you grounds for killing other people.

should read as..

Things that shouldn't give you grounds for killing other people.

I pay to play Dragonrealms, not Snugglerealms. I'd be over in TF in a heartbeat if it was JUST consent policy they lacked, but if you think that's all there is to TF you haven't done your homework.

You already have consent policy to discourage people from attacking you, you already have tons of empty rooms to hang out in, you already have homes/ships/guild only areas where access is somewhat restricted, and if (in spite of all that) you cause someone to engage in CvC with your character I simply cannot feel sympathy for you.

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"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf

>> Consent policy works fine

You should stop here, because this is the only thing that matters with regards to every concern you've raised.

---

Rev. Reene

<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate

<<And DR:Prime isn't the fallen.>>

...didn't I JUST say that Prime is different than TF?

<<random thugging for wearing the wrong colors, title, or some such.>>

Would someone please link this guy to a page on consent policy?

<<you have people who do things to try to bait someone, "Come on, come on, give me a reason to kill you." Then say, " I way only role playing!" or "But I had consent!">>

Yes, these people exist. They are incredibly few and far between, and if you don't give them a reason they get bored and leave you alone. If you DO give them a reason, that is your fault, not theirs.

There are also people who roleplay violent, rude, or unpleasant characters... not that you seem to believe non-carebear roleplay is valid.

<<Tons on empty rooms>>

Yes. There's anywhere from 150-700 players in-game at any given time, and at least 10x that many rooms (I'm probably WAY low on that estimate). Unless you're giving people cause to come and find you it's mind-numbingly easy to park yourself in an out-of-the-way place and socialize, train, etc. without having someone interfere. Yes, you might have to leave the town green for this one.

So what's keeping you out of guild-only areas?

<<For people who can and do play by the rules. Not rule lawyers who twist things to protect themselves and limit others.>>

Example please.

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"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf

Lets create an example: Note this will be at a public gathering spot known for people gathering to listen to classes and such.

I will be sitting here minding my own business picking boxes, practicing some magic, whispering to friends.

I will use the term Me to reflect myself.

[Some Place Public, In Elanthia.]

All about you is a wooded area thick with trees and stuff. You see a shadowling, a familar, and some junk on the ground.
Also here: Some other people.
Exits: Any direction.

Me: practicing personal spell casting..

Someone teaches someone else something they want to learn.

Other people go about their own activities.

Problem Player just arrived.

Me: Still practicing magic...

Other people still doing their own stuff.

Some time passes...

Problem Player asks," Hmm, I'm bored. What is there around here fun to do?"

Problem Player does something in order to prepare a spell.

Problem Player gestures and mana parasites affect everyone in the area.

Me says," Do you mind doing that someplace else please, your disturbing other people.

Problem Player says," If you don't like it, then move."

Me says," Umm, no I was here first and so was everyone else and they're didn't do anything to bother everyone around them."

Problem Player glares at you.

Problem Player says," I don't like you and feel you are disrespecting me by talking to me."

Problem Player draws his weapon.

Problem Player says," Say anything else in my presence and I will kill you."

Me rolls his eyes.

Me says," Just please stop casting your spells on me I am working on something here."

Problem Player says," I warned you now die."

Me was just struck down!

Problem Player says," You should watch what you say to others, that is what you get for mouthing off."

Later Me assists for a GM or Host. I explain the situation and they talk to the other person. I get told that I wrong for talking to them and it was all my fault.

This is just an example and may or may not have actually happened. But in some form is has and does happen. Consent Policy sure would help out here wouldn't it? Except by the rules this is perfectly Okay. The Problem Player has developed his little trap so he can not be found at fault and I end up being the one in the wrong.

If this was a safe spot...

Problem Player casts his spell... But it fizzles...

Problem Player grumbles and moves on.

The problem with a hypothetical log is, the devil is in the details.

---

You look at a two-colored dartboard and see:
Copernicus has yet to throw.
There is currently no black player.

Don't you remember this thread from the WM forums?

---

"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl

>Poke around the internet, I'm sure some website somewhere may have it. There seem to be sites devoted to people bragging about how they PWNed someone and how they are so Awesome sauce for it.

If you're trying to criticize people that post on smelly-cat, just come out and say it. It makes you look silly, but you might as well be direct about it.

---

You look at a two-colored dartboard and see:
Copernicus has yet to throw.
There is currently no black player.

<<It has happened to me and recently. Happy to help out.>>

So let me get this straight, you're clinging to the argument that safe rooms are necessary for people who want to avoid the big mean bullies, but... not using them to do that?

WTB Psyduck button

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"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf

How I wish I'd saved my log of Lairna killing my empath with her avenger simply because I had an avenger out and she insisted on fighting, regardless of my assertion that I wished to remain passive. Could I have left the room? Yes. Could I have fought back? Maybe. I have no idea how to use an avenger in combat. Did I report? No. Do I wish I was in a safe room? No. Do I care that my empath died? No.

Yes, I've played TF for most of the last 6 or more years, and I'm back in prime now on a regular basis. I fully expect my characters to die at the hands of other players, and since one is an empath, and the others are n00bs, I won't be fighting back. It's not that big a deal.

Safe rooms are stupid, because there are plenty of people who run their mouth and are generally obnoxious and then go hide in them. Not everyone is going to like everyone else. People should just learn to deal with it. I took my death from Lairna and she hasn't bothered me since, but it makes me laugh when someone ends up dead at the hands of another and starts talking smack to the person that killed them and they're lying there as a corpse. Yes, Vashir, I remember when that was you... and you're not the only one that's done it, though you were in a safe room at the time.

Get rid of them all, and let the chips fall where they may.


________________________________________

<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>

You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.

Solomon

I think I just had to pop into this thread to post: LolNeutronium.

Man, I'm glad some of you aren't GMs.

-=Issus=-

"and if (in spite of all that) you cause someone to engage in CvC with your character I simply cannot feel sympathy for you."

I suppose in comes down to "cause." Causation is not derived from words spoken or thoughts made, rude or not. It is your reaction to them that causes you to do something, and that reactio is entirely within your control. Accordingly, one player does not "cause" another player to attack them (except in instances of actual self defense to combat where an attack is already begun).

Physical combat is an escalation of verbal sparring, not a direct and inescapeable consequence. If you choose to get upset over words, you are choosing to impose a different level of interaction upon another person.

We have all heard the expression, "Them's fighting words!" That is a reflection that certain words are so inflamatory that violent emotion cannot be resisted by an otherwise reasonable person. We have also all heard of killing or violence merely because "he dissed me" or "he did not respect me." That, however, is more often a reflection that egos were bruised and that person has himself such little self control/self esteem/etc. that he seeks the gratification of violence.

You want a specific example, fine. Go to The Social Side of DragonRealms/Conflicts - Strictly out of Character and then start reading at Post 18156, Jan. 14, 2010, re Silima. Was being called an "ass," even wrongly (since butting in on Daenar was clearly rude unless there was an exigent health issue - and even then an immediate explanation would be warranted), so utterly provocative and inflamatory as to "cause" the ensuing conflict and killing?

Yes, reasonable people can disagree about what is sufficiently inflamatory. However, far to often we see CvC things happen in the realms that are mere indulgences in violence. Killing critters loses its appeal after time, eh? And when you run out of players willing to CvC, it is time to look to fresh meat?

Personally, I have little sympathy with someone who cannot get enough explicitly consented CvC from sparring and the like, and instead seeks to troll for it by having a hypersensitive ego. But again, I come back to this: The realms is big enough for both of us - have your no-safe room towns and provinces and have others were law enforcement/civilized behavior is required. So long as gweth range is limited to a given provinces, etc., we can all live in our own way without any interaction we do not wish.