I think there are still both playability reasons and IC reasons for safe rooms, but the list should be very short. Banks, Vaults for playability, some altars for IC reasons(and some altars should not be).

Question- aren't houses and boats effectively safe rooms? Do we eliminate 90% of safe rooms, but leave houses and boats effectively safe for those who can afford to buy a safe room? I really don't know the mechanics behind houses and boats, so maybe I am correct, but I am sure someone clear that up for me.

in front of the war mage guild should not be safe.

altars, and thats about it. empath guild should not be safe

>- Debt offices

Just curious, why?

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You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.

>>>- Debt offices

>>Just curious, why?

Kill someone, get arrested, they take your stuff, you need to pay that debt to get your stuff back.

So essentially to prevent camping a room they know you're going to need to pause in for a moment (barring having it scripted out, which is doable, but shouldn't be assumed for development purposes) while defenseless. More of a courtesy really. If they camp the room outside the office and get you, so be it IMO.

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Squire Xalahai Zayasero, Player of

>I think Empath guilds all rooms should be safe rooms because a guild that is committed to healing and doesn't use violence should have some type of way of keeping violence out of their home.

I like to think of the infirmary as an emergency room; long lines, doctors that don't pay attention to you, plenty of people without payment, and the occasional drugged up crazy taking a swing at a nurse. I vote not a safe room.

Safe rooms: Depart locations, banks, guard houses (not in the cell though, PRISON FIGHT!), municipal buildings.

~ Purehand

After a long deliberation, the judge finally says, "Purehand, this court finds you innocent of the charges brought upon you."

I don't think that there should be any mechanically safe room unless the person wanting to do violence simply cannot get in there. More lockable doors in places, maybe trees that one person can climb and kick people down, caves that are easily defended somehow. I suppose I could see guards that try to prevent it but when everyone is walking around wearing weapons how often is a guard going to be able to react in time to stop someone from attacking another.

That said, I think that with the justice verb comes some interesting opportunities. Some rooms, such as the guardhouse, govt buildings, temples etc. could conceivably have much higher penalties for violence than say in the viper's nest inn, or any other place in the bad side of town. A room would not be "safe" but any murder or stealing there could come with a couple days IRL jail time or a fine of fifty plats if caught or something like that.

For the recently departed, I don't think that it would be unreasonable for them to come back to life with a certain amount of protection from violence afforded them by their favor. They couldn't speak or gweth or attack anything for a few minutes and would just use that time to find a place to hide out or run to another province or something.

No steal rooms: Banks and festival grounds.

Safe rooms: Banks, festival grounds, guard house (or wherever the area sends people to jail)

No exp gain rooms: Banks, guard houses.

Rooms where creatures can't enter: Pretty much the same places we have that are now considered safe rooms in or near hunting areas. "The Hollow" and places like it are good for these areas, but don't need to disallow PvP.

Aside from that, I think safe rooms and no steal rooms can get the boot entirely.

-=Issus=-

I feel there needs to be a reason the room is safe I mean how does it make sense if a room in the middle of nowhere is safe.

Also I feel that running to a safe room for PVP is unreasonable a person should either be throw out of the room by before mentioned reason or the safe room rule doesn't apply to them for a set amount of time.

Thieving should be allowed almost everywhere but there should be a penalty in a safe room if there is a reason for one.

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I think safe rooms should be what one living in a 'medieval fantasy'-type such as DR world would deem safe. The Bank, Guard Houses, these are safe and I believe SHOULD be safe under game mechanics (No Steal, No War). They're places that a sane person would naturally assume to be safe. For those who need signs and wonders, look - big tough guards who will squash you, or failing that get enough of their peers to squash/haul you away should you cause trouble. Ah, safety.

I think all safe rooms should be this way. In other words, obviously safe. I am less likely to agree with or understand safe rooms that are safe for no apparent reason... like in the middle of a hunting area, "Why can't I steal or PvP in this room?" I know safe areas are nice, especially to escape head-hunters or harassment... but with the Necromancers out, there needs to be more of a 'Justice' feel to safe areas... Necromancers are rightfully persecuted in game these days, a wonderful addition to the world I say... but if they can just go to the 'magic safe room' and raspberry me while I try to take revenge for what Lyras and Co. have done, that is not only no fun but MAKES NO SENSE from an in game perspective. Having the 'safe areas' also be 'justice areas' is more believable, less exploitable (since a guard will scoop you up, for example, if you are a wanted necro trying to hide in what I am proposing a safe zone should be) makes more sense and is more workable with current systems and in game tides.

Having safe zones outside justice areas or appropriate-to-guard areas elsewhere in the realms is good too, as long as there is a believable reason that makes sense in game. Immersion! (An 'aura of purity' in a lone woodland shrine, for example. No people, here the safety is provided by the patron god of the shrine.)

Ok! That's my piece.

-Z

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As mentioned, some safe rooms need to be safe for mechanical reasons. I'm thinking specifically of jail cells, which actually weren't safe rooms until relatively recently when we had a sort of bonfire pow-wow in front of the bank where we kept getting arrested for loitering and whatnot and would fight and kill each other in jail. Turns out dying and departing there is Very Bad and Zeyurn had to turn off violence as a result. Whoops. :x

So yeah, obviously violence should be prohibited in those places just because it kind of has to be. But I'm inclined to say the messaging should be changed to reflect this somehow.

Possibly depart altars should be like that too for sheer playability. Most of them are anyway, but several (like the one in Crossing) are not. But again, there should be more clear messaging on why you can't, and not all altars should be safe - though some should come with extra special penalties for killing someone at (and perhaps some should even have perks).

There are also some areas mentioned like the Healerie that have IC backgrounds for being safe areas. There was one idea mentioned in the conflict folder for how to deal with that, and any other area you could reasonably say has a strong "guard" presence.

Add a stat check to the initiation of an attack, maybe agility and reflex, that scales based on how badassed the guards in the area are supposed to be. If the guards beat you, you don't even get a chance to take a swing, and they drag you out of the area and deposit you on your ass with a "disturbing the peace" charge. If you win, you evade the guards and the attack goes through, but you still get a disturbing the peace and/or assault charge (which should probably be on a timer). If you continue to make subsequent attacks, the chances the guards will catch you increases each time. If you linger there too long after the attack and charge, you get grabbed and/or arrested anyway.

Areas that I'd expect to be like this are the bank, the Healerie, certain guilds (Empaths mostly), the guardhouse, and town hall areas. You'll notice this kind of hinges on them being justice areas - that's intentional. I don't think there should be "safe" rooms outside of towns, with the exception of depart spots.

Most of the safe rooms in the game should not be. Places like the WM guild should not be safe at all. If you make the MM guild safe or have guards in it I will be incredibly unhappy as it's not even a justice area currently (as some have suggested "all guilds").

I'm glad this is being looked at and I trust Z et al. to come to a decision that will be fair for everyone.

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Rev. Reene

<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate

I do not think any rooms need to be "safe."

I think that the room's "safe"-ness needs to be created by something in-game.

Guards should be placed to stop violence and stealing in places where it is desired.

The Guards should PROTECT the target so that the violence can happen, but not effect the target.

The person trying to be violent gets one warning from the Guard.

If they continue with their shenanigans, then the guard will PROTECT the target again and attack the shenanigan-doer.

If the person starting the violence leaves the room, then the guards stop pursuit, report the person to the justice system, and go about their business of guarding whatever needs to be guarded.

I think it would be cool to be able to kill the guards as well (no exp of course). Only the next guard that shows up will be a little better. Killing a guard would obviously have repercussions attached to it via the justice system and/or guild/location they were assigned to.

Depart locations could be guarded by some sort of holy guards that protect depart locations because they have nothing better to do.

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Formerly Known As Nitish

>Alisyn edges away from you.

>>So you want everyone's homes and boats have the AFK scripting penalty added to it?<<

I would ideally like to remove all incentives to sit in an area where nobody can get to you for extended periods of time.


- Mazrian

The Flying Company

The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en

First, thanks for polling the players. I hope you get what you need from this.

Death and Justice related rooms, where mechanical actions are executed to advance oneself through that system and back towards a state of normal play, do need to be made safe. If camping could cause undue hardship on the person suffering the system, let the camper wait outside. Feel free to remove gwething, scrying, magic, talking, experience drain, re-arranging inventory, mana re-filling or whatever other restrictions that make sense. You could add a timer, where an appropriate agent of that institution removes loitering players, to appease those that are terrified of someone that needs to die getting away. If these can be handled with IC messaging, so much the better.

Non-Steal/Hard-Steal rooms should exist in major commerce areas, particularly in area where young players, who are the most vulnerable, tend to go (furrier). IC messaging is also best.

I'm also not opposed to two people of open status being able to ignore the safe mechanic of a room for all actions that are not AOE. I want to emphasize the fact that this should be for Open-Open conflict not Guarded-Open.

In front of the Crossing's War Mage guild should be safe, non-steal, and the best mana room, ever. Also, can we get a tray of tea and crumpets? Maybe a few pillows (for nappers)... A tree to practice climbing on (teaches to 1000 ranks)... An Auto-Puff and Auto-Rezzer... A large statue of a Troll to practice TM on... Oh and if you could throw in a 1000% increase to exp drain rate and pool size too, that would be acceptable. Thanks!

I think the only rooms that should be safe are ones where there is a divine presence (i.e. altars, temples, etc.) or a very strong presence of the law (i.e. guard houses, banks and government buildings).

I'm going to give my thoughts on safe rooms. Generally, I believe that combat interactions should be dealt with by players moreso than by the system or GMs.

However, I say that with the obvious caveat that some people don't want to PvP, and their wishes need to be respected. With that, my suggestions:

1) All depart rooms should be flagged safe. It makes camping a kill substantially more difficult, which I think would be one of the major complaints.
2) Either all guilds or no guilds should be flagged safe. If the empaths guild is, so should all other guilds. Autopaths should not be safe.
3) Nosteal flags should only exist in rooms that also have safe flags.
4) I'm tempted to believe the argument that safe rooms should not all you to gain experience, aside from by classes.

Should there be other safe rooms? I'd lean towards no, except perhaps for essential services: the bank window, the debt office.

>If camping could cause undue hardship on the person suffering the system, let the camper wait outside.

I like this idea. And it could make good lore too, an inner sanctum at the temple that only the high priest with a certain ritual can access from the outside or something like that.

You would also have to turn experience off in guild- and sect-only areas, to be completely fair.

Yes, let's make those areas even more unappealing.

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Rev. Reene

<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate

I posted in the main area because I was tired after getting home from work and didn't notice it was here.

Anyway.

Turning off EXP in Houses / Boats is not going to happen (unless you're caught scripting) so don't worry overly much about that. We're mainly concerned about areas where you can be out interacting with other people beyond gweth trash-talk.

However. I am intrigued by the idea of turning off EXP in remaining saferooms outside of homes. (Note: Me being intrigued should not be takes as it will happen, just that I find the idea interesting enough to consider further)

-Z

I think there should be no safe rooms with only two exceptions: Depart Locations, and where absolutely essential for the game to function (Jails/Libraries).

And even then, I'd make it no gweth, no train, no fam control, no magic, and if any mechanics can support it, no loitering beyond recovery time from death.

The only other area I can see from the other posts would be the Jadewater mansion and it's counterpart, whatever it is, in Riverhaven. I'd be open to seeing them safe as well, but accompanied by the above gweth/familiar restrictions. I'm assuming mentors can skadoodle anyone there who is hiding out.

Plenty of protected places to hide without mechanics artificially enforcing safety as is.

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You wave your hand through the mist of the fountain and rub the wetness between your fingertips.
Rivalin says, "Yep, it's water."

My opinion on safe rooms is very much akin to Szrael's: They shouldn't exist permanently but rather temporarily.

To elaborate on that, the temporary portion should be at the spot of the depart (in the case that they did not DEPART ITEM/FULL and have something to return for.)
If there were to be a permanent location for a safe room at all, I would suggest the altars and/or areas where PCs depart to, just to prevent someone from chain killing. Even those could function temporarily to keep people from going to them to avoid consequences.

On another note, I would also like to see the end of the consequence-avoiders running into the Empath's Guild. It was said before, but it bears repeating: the Empath's already have a way to remove people, creating a haven for people to hide away into is just one of the many reasons I hate that particular guild hall.

If permanent safe rooms remain in existence anywhere, making them exp-off could be good and bad.

If an Empath needed to utilize a safe room to heal a corpse, s/he would have to decide if they want the oh-so-elusive-at-higher-ends Empathy or if helping some poor ratsturd(s) is worth it.

Personally, as an Empath, I love tournaments and triages because it's a really good opportunity to train Empathy decently without spending hours Perc-Walking.
If that opportunity was taken away, I don't see a reason to even bother trying anymore. I feel that I would be reduced to either breaking my roleplay to camp in the Drama Guild to heal anything that walked in with a simple abrasion or scripting for hours on end just to circle. It's bad enough that most higher level empaths already do this.

-Inauri

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The faenrae reaver throws its head back and screams viciously, "All your base are belong to US!"