The jail thing is a mechanical issue.
It was not always a safe area but after a particularly violent night with several people nearly losing their entire inventories it was made one.
Having it safe is just necessary due to weird mechanics Same for several other areas like libraries.
Rev. Reene
<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate
IDONS-BUDDY
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:03 AM UTC
Keep jail safe until/unless the mechanics are fixed, then open it up for violence. Definitely like the idea of improvised brawling weapons in there, too, when this happens.
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
JMF90
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:18 AM UTC
>No stealing in trader tents and banks, for playability. Especially since training perception outside of hunting is so hard now (boxes count as a product of hunting).
Juggling teaches the exact same amount as before, and foraging teaches much more. This statement is completely false.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
Juggling teaches the exact same amount as before, and foraging teaches much more. This statement is completely false.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
JMF90
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:22 AM UTC
>with that in mind, why are homes in TF turned off for learning? since scripting is legal there?
The same reason safe rooms were already removed from TF. The same reasons we're having this discussion to begin with. It prevents people from avoiding the consequences of their actions.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
The same reason safe rooms were already removed from TF. The same reasons we're having this discussion to begin with. It prevents people from avoiding the consequences of their actions.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
JMF90
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:22 AM UTC
Btw, if jails are made safe rooms, how about not arresting us when we're dead either... Talk about mechanics issues.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
MACCABEE1
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:27 AM UTC
>>The character generator exit room: Brand new players... should at least be able to exit the character generator without fear of getting killed:>>
i've never seen anyone killed there, not even in TF.
"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>
HALAMAR
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:49 AM UTC
Ok, I'm going to chime in on my viewpoints and admit up front that I didn't read all of the previous posts. I made it through the first 50 or so.
I like what someone said at the very first that there should be some IC reason on why the room should be safe/unsafe or what I'm going to call protected.
What I mean by protected is have some sort of elite guard in the area that puts a stop to something before it continues.
IE - Bank - Have an elite bank guard standing there watching people. If someone does something that looks suspicious, such as have a weapon out, have them politely ask them to put away their weapon.
>An elite bank guard taps on your shoulder, nods toward your war mattock and asks you, "Would you kindly put that away before you hurt yourself or someone else with it?"
After the first warning... they get get a second warning and possibly also an escort out of the location or a good roughing up, depending on the location.
So here is my breakdown of what I think.
Depart Points - Safe
Banks - High Protected
Jails - High Protected
Altars - Depends on the god. I think Hodierna would shun having violence at her altars compared to Urrem'tier...
Along the lines that someone else said about royalty murders each other all the time, for areas like that, throw in extreme elite guards and make it where the person in charge of the area can dismiss them so they can do dirty work or rough up someone while the guard turns a blind eye.
I really like the idea of having a major RP focus on it though for the rooms. Even a temple guard would be a nice touch for depart rooms or have the gods smack the person around for attacking in a holy place like that.
That's all I can think of really.
~Raven Priest Shevden Helvalik
I like what someone said at the very first that there should be some IC reason on why the room should be safe/unsafe or what I'm going to call protected.
What I mean by protected is have some sort of elite guard in the area that puts a stop to something before it continues.
IE - Bank - Have an elite bank guard standing there watching people. If someone does something that looks suspicious, such as have a weapon out, have them politely ask them to put away their weapon.
>An elite bank guard taps on your shoulder, nods toward your war mattock and asks you, "Would you kindly put that away before you hurt yourself or someone else with it?"
After the first warning... they get get a second warning and possibly also an escort out of the location or a good roughing up, depending on the location.
So here is my breakdown of what I think.
Depart Points - Safe
Banks - High Protected
Jails - High Protected
Altars - Depends on the god. I think Hodierna would shun having violence at her altars compared to Urrem'tier...
Along the lines that someone else said about royalty murders each other all the time, for areas like that, throw in extreme elite guards and make it where the person in charge of the area can dismiss them so they can do dirty work or rough up someone while the guard turns a blind eye.
I really like the idea of having a major RP focus on it though for the rooms. Even a temple guard would be a nice touch for depart rooms or have the gods smack the person around for attacking in a holy place like that.
That's all I can think of really.
~Raven Priest Shevden Helvalik
JENKINSAPDX
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 05:44 AM UTC
<<Juggling teaches the exact same amount as before, and foraging teaches much more. This statement is completely false.
Show tests or it isn't true! (JMF your test results are awesome in general and help me train, so no hating here, I just want to see it.)
Gungan says, "Congratulations you have broken the game. This means you have won Dragonrealms."
Gungan says, "Please reroll and play again."
Show tests or it isn't true! (JMF your test results are awesome in general and help me train, so no hating here, I just want to see it.)
Gungan says, "Congratulations you have broken the game. This means you have won Dragonrealms."
Gungan says, "Please reroll and play again."
NEUTRONIUM
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 06:54 AM UTC
The problem with safe rooms are one of three forms it seems from reading the various posts and such.
Problem 1: Script heaven and ticking off People whom themselves are looking for someone to tick off.
Problem 2: Gathering spots that tick off the player base who feel attacking/killing someone is fundamental to all Role Playing.
Problem 3: A Safe room where someone likes to go so they don't have to worry about someone bothering them while they practice gets turned unsafe and they can no longer practice or study because its now the local bar room brawl spot.
There should be places that people can gather and socialize without worry about fighting, bored people casting area spells that effect others negatively, and other the like stuff. OR even just to avoid dealing with others. There are already 80% plus of the game if not more where all things go. Making some places limited actions area "Read Safe Rooms" gives a place where other types of RP styles or Play styles can go. And sometimes a person just needs a place where they can go and no matter how UBER L33T Skillzd someone is they still can't do things someone else.
A lot of the changes to the game seem to be swinging towards a total player killer dream come true then why have safe rooms any where?
Places that need to be made safe.
Hospitals, Shrines, Death Areas, Banks, Jails, Courtrooms, Public Punishment spots, Guild Leader Rooms, Auction Houses, New Player Areas, And some places for gathering where teaching and practicing have nothing to fear from PvP, Take it some place else.
SUNHOWLER
ROBERTDH
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 07:40 AM UTC
I have PVP on DR and do my best to go out of my way to avoid even suggestions of it...
...but even I hate safe rooms. They turn gathering spots into whispering boredom zones. I doubt you'd see that much of a PVP upswing, even, but maybe people in gathering spots would stop ignoring people they aren't BFFs with.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
...but even I hate safe rooms. They turn gathering spots into whispering boredom zones. I doubt you'd see that much of a PVP upswing, even, but maybe people in gathering spots would stop ignoring people they aren't BFFs with.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
ICON1
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 08:55 AM UTC
Jail cells - just make it so everybody gets shackled to the wall. Problem solved.
Depart spots - Makes sense but with a slight caveat.
Most/all of this is coming from a CvC angle - for those of us who don't really get involved then this is all a bit irrelevant to a degree. What I wouldn't want is for areas that are currently safe and conveniently so to become non safe purely to make it easier for CvC. While I can understand that we don't want people to be able to avoid the consequences of their actions, some of us just want to play the game. I would like to keep bank and vault areas safe for this reason, but to be honest as far as I am concerned you can make jail cells and depart spots non safe.
One thing I would say is that in the interests of a pink and fluffy environment a lot of areas were made no steal, which in light of this discussion seems a little farcical. I would like to see no steal areas removed from all but safe rooms.
At the end of the day I think balance and playability is what it is all about. I can understand the reasons for wanting to remove them, and I can see reasons for keeping at least a few. It's a shame that there are people who, through misuse of the system, have forced this discussion and potential changes on the rest of us.
Depart spots - Makes sense but with a slight caveat.
Most/all of this is coming from a CvC angle - for those of us who don't really get involved then this is all a bit irrelevant to a degree. What I wouldn't want is for areas that are currently safe and conveniently so to become non safe purely to make it easier for CvC. While I can understand that we don't want people to be able to avoid the consequences of their actions, some of us just want to play the game. I would like to keep bank and vault areas safe for this reason, but to be honest as far as I am concerned you can make jail cells and depart spots non safe.
One thing I would say is that in the interests of a pink and fluffy environment a lot of areas were made no steal, which in light of this discussion seems a little farcical. I would like to see no steal areas removed from all but safe rooms.
At the end of the day I think balance and playability is what it is all about. I can understand the reasons for wanting to remove them, and I can see reasons for keeping at least a few. It's a shame that there are people who, through misuse of the system, have forced this discussion and potential changes on the rest of us.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 09:11 AM UTC
>> Jail cells - just make it so everybody gets shackled to the wall. Problem solved.
I can't believe this didn't occur to anyone.
Good idea.
Rev. Reene
<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate
I can't believe this didn't occur to anyone.
Good idea.
Rev. Reene
<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate
TELGER
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 12:09 PM UTC
>>Depart Spots (These are highly holy areas, and if we didn't allow them to be safe I'd have to code something immensely punitive to make sure nobody in their right mind would ever attack somebody there)
Still would prefer this not to be the case for the dark gods (Trothfang'd be a-ok with human sacrifice), but then again I can't really think of any dark god depart spots.
The only thing I can think of that might circumvent it is if someone departs while they're still getting hit by holy firey bolts of AE and die again from an errant bolt a cleric already gets screwed with tanked devotion since nearly every depart spot is holy. Hopefully they won't get doubly screwed.
~Thilan
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."
Still would prefer this not to be the case for the dark gods (Trothfang'd be a-ok with human sacrifice), but then again I can't really think of any dark god depart spots.
The only thing I can think of that might circumvent it is if someone departs while they're still getting hit by holy firey bolts of AE and die again from an errant bolt a cleric already gets screwed with tanked devotion since nearly every depart spot is holy. Hopefully they won't get doubly screwed.
~Thilan
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."
JULIAN
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 12:49 PM UTC
Are any of the depart spots located at dark-aspect altars?
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en
- Mazrian
The Flying Company
The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en
MACCABEE1
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 12:59 PM UTC
*>> Jail cells - just make it so everybody gets shackled to the wall. Problem solved.<<
it wouldn't solve the problem of the system arresting dead people. but they would make interesting wall decorations. :-)
"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>
it wouldn't solve the problem of the system arresting dead people. but they would make interesting wall decorations. :-)
"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>
GABRIELBLACK
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 01:19 PM UTC
Dear DR Staff,
What can I do to help convince you that bathrooms need to be safe rooms? Nobody deserves to be messed with when they are in the bathroom.
That said, if you leave the WC and get put down Pulp Fiction style...shrug. les royal sans fromage.
Alexii points at a Velakan slaver and shouts, "Another one! Don't let it get away!"
What can I do to help convince you that bathrooms need to be safe rooms? Nobody deserves to be messed with when they are in the bathroom.
That said, if you leave the WC and get put down Pulp Fiction style...shrug. les royal sans fromage.
Alexii points at a Velakan slaver and shouts, "Another one! Don't let it get away!"
SAUVA
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 01:55 PM UTC
I'll be very glad to see most/all of the no-violence, no-steal rooms go. I would as that a number of "no critters can move into this room" be allowed to exist as these spots usually act as gathering places, and gathering places are a good thing in my opinion. Shouldn't stop anyone from getting killed by another PC if they want to run their mouth there, but at least keep the critters out.
Also, please allow violence in the Ranger guild, thanks.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
Also, please allow violence in the Ranger guild, thanks.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
LORZELOPHIA
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 02:01 PM UTC
>>Shouldn't stop anyone from getting killed by another PC if they want to run their mouth there, but at least keep the critters out.
This would also prevent Empaths from killing people who run their mouths there (well, at least with avengers).
-- Player of Szrael --
(12:09:15 AM) catman: every time i find someone that has calm as their default speech emote, my first reaction is to try and make them angry
This would also prevent Empaths from killing people who run their mouths there (well, at least with avengers).
-- Player of Szrael --
(12:09:15 AM) catman: every time i find someone that has calm as their default speech emote, my first reaction is to try and make them angry
ASHBAUGHJ2
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 02:15 PM UTC
I think any room that you can think/chatter from should be a room your words can get you killed in. Period.
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
The Moose
"My advice? Run to a safe room, then re-roll. It's guaranteed awesome."
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 02:20 PM UTC
<<Gathering spots that tick off the player base who feel attacking/killing someone is fundamental to all Role Playing.>>
As a matter of fact, I do feel that attacking/killing someone who gives me enough reason is a fundamental part of my roleplay. Go Barbs.
<<A Safe room where someone likes to go so they don't have to worry about someone bothering them while they practice gets turned unsafe and they can no longer practice or study because its now the local bar room brawl spot.>>
If you don't like it... use a different room?
<<There should be places that people can gather and socialize without worry about fighting, bored people casting area spells that effect others negatively, and other the like stuff.>>
Why?
<<OR even just to avoid dealing with others.>>
You don't need a safe room for that. In fact, since safe rooms often become gathering spots, they're the LAST place you want to look for that.
<<Making some places limited actions area "Read Safe Rooms" gives a place where other types of RP styles or Play styles can go.>>
Exactly what kind of 'RP style or Play style' do you think involves people being free to do anything they want without fear of any immediate consequences?
On top of all this, haven't you ever heard of player houses? Player-owned boats? Just don't AFK script there and you're all set.
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
As a matter of fact, I do feel that attacking/killing someone who gives me enough reason is a fundamental part of my roleplay. Go Barbs.
<<A Safe room where someone likes to go so they don't have to worry about someone bothering them while they practice gets turned unsafe and they can no longer practice or study because its now the local bar room brawl spot.>>
If you don't like it... use a different room?
<<There should be places that people can gather and socialize without worry about fighting, bored people casting area spells that effect others negatively, and other the like stuff.>>
Why?
<<OR even just to avoid dealing with others.>>
You don't need a safe room for that. In fact, since safe rooms often become gathering spots, they're the LAST place you want to look for that.
<<Making some places limited actions area "Read Safe Rooms" gives a place where other types of RP styles or Play styles can go.>>
Exactly what kind of 'RP style or Play style' do you think involves people being free to do anything they want without fear of any immediate consequences?
On top of all this, haven't you ever heard of player houses? Player-owned boats? Just don't AFK script there and you're all set.
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
TELGER
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 02:56 PM UTC
>>Are any of the depart spots located at dark-aspect altars?
The ones I can think of:
-Asketi's Mount
-Ker'Leor (used to be Firulf; now it's Dergati)
Not sure if you depart to the dark aspect altars that are the only ones around:
-Dirge
-Knife Clan
-Misenseor Abbey
-Gate of Souls
-Western part of Aesry (or does the whole island go to the morgue, which I don't think is holy anyway)
Also don't know what the Shrine of the Dragon down in Shard should be considered.
~Thilan
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."
The ones I can think of:
-Asketi's Mount
-Ker'Leor (used to be Firulf; now it's Dergati)
Not sure if you depart to the dark aspect altars that are the only ones around:
-Dirge
-Knife Clan
-Misenseor Abbey
-Gate of Souls
-Western part of Aesry (or does the whole island go to the morgue, which I don't think is holy anyway)
Also don't know what the Shrine of the Dragon down in Shard should be considered.
~Thilan
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."
JMF90
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:02 PM UTC
>>The character generator exit room: Brand new players... should at least be able to exit the character generator without fear of getting killed
>i've never seen anyone killed there, not even in TF.
In TF you enter via a random room to prevent this.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
>i've never seen anyone killed there, not even in TF.
In TF you enter via a random room to prevent this.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
JMF90
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:06 PM UTC
><<Juggling teaches the exact same amount as before, and foraging teaches much more. This statement is completely false.
>Show tests or it isn't true! (JMF your test results are awesome in general and help me train, so no hating here, I just want to see it.)
Ok, you get me the DeLorean DMC 12, and I'll take care of the flux capacitor.
Pool sizes are bigger. EXP drain is static now. Those two factors combined give the perception of learning slower.
Fact: juggling has always been a terrible way to learn perception.
Fact: perception is harder to lock via juggling now, but you learn more because you pulse as if you were at mind lock right away.
Seriously, what do you expect me to test to prove this?
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
>Show tests or it isn't true! (JMF your test results are awesome in general and help me train, so no hating here, I just want to see it.)
Ok, you get me the DeLorean DMC 12, and I'll take care of the flux capacitor.
Pool sizes are bigger. EXP drain is static now. Those two factors combined give the perception of learning slower.
Fact: juggling has always been a terrible way to learn perception.
Fact: perception is harder to lock via juggling now, but you learn more because you pulse as if you were at mind lock right away.
Seriously, what do you expect me to test to prove this?
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:19 PM UTC
Juggling is a crappy way to learn perception. Seriously, you only need to keep perception above 1/34 (or whatever) to get the full experience pulse; HUNT in combat and foraging out of combat (or between critters) should keep you right where you need to be.
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer
FBC
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:35 PM UTC
>>Juggling is a crappy way to learn perception. Seriously, you only need to keep perception above 1/34 (or whatever) to get the full experience pulse; HUNT in combat and foraging out of combat (or between critters) should keep you right where you need to be.
My guess is the person that complained about it is a trader who doesn't want to step off the trade route to learn perception.
My guess is the person that complained about it is a trader who doesn't want to step off the trade route to learn perception.
VAGELO
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:40 PM UTC
>I can't believe this didn't occur to anyone.
After reading up on 6 pages of it, I really like the idea of a temporary safety at depart spots. I'm honestly surprised nobody has mentioned Death Sickness + Depart room = Safe.
Other than that, let the world be free.
-Master Ndin
After reading up on 6 pages of it, I really like the idea of a temporary safety at depart spots. I'm honestly surprised nobody has mentioned Death Sickness + Depart room = Safe.
Other than that, let the world be free.
-Master Ndin
JMF90
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 04:43 PM UTC
>After reading up on 6 pages of it, I really like the idea of a temporary safety at depart spots. I'm honestly surprised nobody has mentioned Death Sickness + Depart room = Safe.
I don't really like that idea, because it would reward people who have low or no favors with much longer post-death protection.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
I don't really like that idea, because it would reward people who have low or no favors with much longer post-death protection.
You lick the dirt and discover that it tastes like dirt.
MACKELI3
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 05:26 PM UTC
I pretty much agree with GM's....
Only rooms that I think should be safe are:
Depart rooms (if even temporarily)
Banks
Guard Houses/Court Rooms/Town Halls
Altars
Everything else should be totally open (non-safe, stealable, etc.)
>stop j'loing up the thread
>~Arwinia
Only rooms that I think should be safe are:
Depart rooms (if even temporarily)
Banks
Guard Houses/Court Rooms/Town Halls
Altars
Everything else should be totally open (non-safe, stealable, etc.)
>stop j'loing up the thread
>~Arwinia
THOMASWIZ
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 05:53 PM UTC
Honestly I'd suggest for no safe-rooms.
For playability reasons I know this isn't possible.
My vote goes for any provincial gov't buildings, Banks, Depart Spots, and the majority of the fesitval grounds, and Altars.
Altars to me should have some kind of Banner of Truce in effect if properly maintained by your local cleric. (Those of specific darker deitys that covet death should be allowed a chance to get blood spilled before them)
It'd be nice if Depart Spots had some kind of PC pusher where as it knows if said PC has sat there for over 10 minutes it would move the character in a predetermined exit from that room. Kind of like a "oh hey, you can walk again, let me show you how!".
Death Dealer Adakin of Prime
WorldsBestMagic Kastr of TF
"The Key To Immortality Is Living A Life Worth Remembering."
"Killing Time Murders Opportunities."
For playability reasons I know this isn't possible.
My vote goes for any provincial gov't buildings, Banks, Depart Spots, and the majority of the fesitval grounds, and Altars.
Altars to me should have some kind of Banner of Truce in effect if properly maintained by your local cleric. (Those of specific darker deitys that covet death should be allowed a chance to get blood spilled before them)
It'd be nice if Depart Spots had some kind of PC pusher where as it knows if said PC has sat there for over 10 minutes it would move the character in a predetermined exit from that room. Kind of like a "oh hey, you can walk again, let me show you how!".
Death Dealer Adakin of Prime
WorldsBestMagic Kastr of TF
"The Key To Immortality Is Living A Life Worth Remembering."
"Killing Time Murders Opportunities."
GRANGERSITE
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 07:32 PM UTC
I started to read the posts in this topic and stopped, no discourtesy to prior posters intended. Sol said he want a survey of opinion, as opposed to an analysis of the opinions of others, so here is mine:
Safe rooms and, for that matter, warded rooms, were created as a middle ground approach to player to player interactions. Prime is not the Fallen, where anything goes, nor is it Disneyland where nothing bad goes. Middle ground is a way of balancing the desires of those who want some buffer against interference with their version of "playability" with the desires those who want others to have no buffer against the "playability" concept of their own. Put differently, between those who are here to play against AI critters and those who are here to play against other players, at least in given instances.
To the extent that we wish to maintain that balance, we should maintain safe and/or warded rooms. Where to put the rooms depends upon where one can reasonably expect some privacy, security, or general peace, but that decision need not be "one size fits all." DR is a big place, there is room for all of us and a wide variety of play styles. M'riss or Hara may have no safe rooms, Dale may have 10 safe rooms, Crossing and Haven may have three. It does not matter precisely how many is selected for each area so long as there is some province or town that we can each feel comfortable in.
Obviously, this security can be abused, as any system can be. But so what? If we wanted complete accountabiliy or realism, we would each have one life. Watch how fast abusive conduct grows/ends if you put that in place. This is, after all, a game, not a substitute for a good workout at a gym.
Safe rooms and, for that matter, warded rooms, were created as a middle ground approach to player to player interactions. Prime is not the Fallen, where anything goes, nor is it Disneyland where nothing bad goes. Middle ground is a way of balancing the desires of those who want some buffer against interference with their version of "playability" with the desires those who want others to have no buffer against the "playability" concept of their own. Put differently, between those who are here to play against AI critters and those who are here to play against other players, at least in given instances.
To the extent that we wish to maintain that balance, we should maintain safe and/or warded rooms. Where to put the rooms depends upon where one can reasonably expect some privacy, security, or general peace, but that decision need not be "one size fits all." DR is a big place, there is room for all of us and a wide variety of play styles. M'riss or Hara may have no safe rooms, Dale may have 10 safe rooms, Crossing and Haven may have three. It does not matter precisely how many is selected for each area so long as there is some province or town that we can each feel comfortable in.
Obviously, this security can be abused, as any system can be. But so what? If we wanted complete accountabiliy or realism, we would each have one life. Watch how fast abusive conduct grows/ends if you put that in place. This is, after all, a game, not a substitute for a good workout at a gym.
MELLIONM6
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 08:11 PM UTC
Since I love be contrary and doubt anyone has said it yet...the pit should be a safe room.
On a more realistic note, areas where healers congregate should be safe rooms. Depart locations should be safe room. Areas where clerics meet should be safe rooms specifically to prevent immediate re-killing of the raised or killing of a cleric for raising someone. This would have been more notable when permadeath existed, but probably still holds true now as well. A few strategically placed safe rooms in deep hunting areas without nearby civilization would be nice as well. It'd give clerics and empaths a good spot for on-sight triage where moongates or willing moon mages weren't necessarily available. A room in places such as the gate of souls and other large inaccessible areas would be nice.
Places like the outside of the warrior mages guild, anywhere inside the barbarian's guild, or around the town green should NOT be safe. Further, forges should not be safe. Forges are one of those places where one player can easily steal from another and absolutely nothing can be done to prevent it (stealing ingots, plates, or wires in this case) as there is no way to cool or heat ingots in your inventory or constant possession. Its a rare occurrence, but it does happen once in a blue moon.
On a more realistic note, areas where healers congregate should be safe rooms. Depart locations should be safe room. Areas where clerics meet should be safe rooms specifically to prevent immediate re-killing of the raised or killing of a cleric for raising someone. This would have been more notable when permadeath existed, but probably still holds true now as well. A few strategically placed safe rooms in deep hunting areas without nearby civilization would be nice as well. It'd give clerics and empaths a good spot for on-sight triage where moongates or willing moon mages weren't necessarily available. A room in places such as the gate of souls and other large inaccessible areas would be nice.
Places like the outside of the warrior mages guild, anywhere inside the barbarian's guild, or around the town green should NOT be safe. Further, forges should not be safe. Forges are one of those places where one player can easily steal from another and absolutely nothing can be done to prevent it (stealing ingots, plates, or wires in this case) as there is no way to cool or heat ingots in your inventory or constant possession. Its a rare occurrence, but it does happen once in a blue moon.
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 08:16 PM UTC
If you're really trying to avoid conflict with other players, consent policy protects you from it. If you need a safe room on top of that you're not doing such a great job of avoiding conflict.
And again, if you REALLY REALLY NEEEEEEED to be safe, get a paladin, cleric, or bard.
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
And again, if you REALLY REALLY NEEEEEEED to be safe, get a paladin, cleric, or bard.
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
GRANGERSITE
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 09:50 PM UTC
Wrong. Consent policy deals with cleaning up the mess after someone has violate policy. That is no different than saying "hey, I got rear ended at a stop sign so my insurance covers it all." It does not. You have still been disrupted, killed, etc. You will not get back all you lost.
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 10:02 PM UTC
<<You have still been disrupted, killed, etc. You will not get back all you lost.>>
Five minutes of time and maybe some text-pride? I don't follow. Why should we disrupt the RP environment with OOC mechanics on the off-chance that someone will come in and decide to randomly murder your character? Do you have any idea how fast that would earn someone a lockout?
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
Five minutes of time and maybe some text-pride? I don't follow. Why should we disrupt the RP environment with OOC mechanics on the off-chance that someone will come in and decide to randomly murder your character? Do you have any idea how fast that would earn someone a lockout?
"That's how I knew who you were. You were always like "Blah blah blah I'm a Barbarian oh-my-god." -my gf
DRAKEWARLORD
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 10:50 PM UTC
I think I posted in the wrong place at first, but I'm not familiar with this forum. I also did not really explain my thoughts well. So here goes.
I was thinking depart rooms and the autopuff, mainly because of my experiences in invasions.
But I'm not really familiar with some of the other rooms or the problems with them if you die in them. I'm also not that familiar with some of the inventive ways people have used safe rooms in harassing others or in relation to pvp.
Mainly, when I think of a safe room, I think 'safe from mobiles', or 'safe from invading mobiles'.
It has been nice to have designated hunters refuge areas in out of the way hunting locations where I can duck in and heal up and scrape and do boxes and so on.
It has never seemed fair to me for an invading army to be able to camp a depart room and kill people as soon as they wake back up there, which did go on in the Outcast war a few times. In addition, it's sort of come across like kicking people when they are down when an invading thing follows people into an autopuff. There are times when it's an off time invasion where there is no organized triage up and hardly anyone one on.
However, these are not really the sort of 'safe' rooms I think we are discussing here. I am hoping that these two types of rooms will continue. But I don't really see a need to make them free from pvp.
I understand that there are mech problems if people die in some places. So perhaps those places should be safe rooms, like libraries and jail cells.
Other than that, I think it would be nice if noobs had some degree of protection from mobiles and pvp for a very short time, perhaps until they have one skill with 10 ranks of exp in it or a total of 10 ranks of exp in skills earned over all. Basically enough time for them to get their bearings, get out of the character maker, find a mentor if they need one, and hopefully not get kills wandering into a hunting area that is not a noob hunting area or wandering out into an invasion they have no way to know is going on since they don't even have a gweth. I'm not sure that is best accomplished with safe rooms though. Perhaps a ward off for a short time?
"Sometimes you guys scare me."--Annwyl
"You people worry me."--GM Abasha
"Hmm..."--Z
I was thinking depart rooms and the autopuff, mainly because of my experiences in invasions.
But I'm not really familiar with some of the other rooms or the problems with them if you die in them. I'm also not that familiar with some of the inventive ways people have used safe rooms in harassing others or in relation to pvp.
Mainly, when I think of a safe room, I think 'safe from mobiles', or 'safe from invading mobiles'.
It has been nice to have designated hunters refuge areas in out of the way hunting locations where I can duck in and heal up and scrape and do boxes and so on.
It has never seemed fair to me for an invading army to be able to camp a depart room and kill people as soon as they wake back up there, which did go on in the Outcast war a few times. In addition, it's sort of come across like kicking people when they are down when an invading thing follows people into an autopuff. There are times when it's an off time invasion where there is no organized triage up and hardly anyone one on.
However, these are not really the sort of 'safe' rooms I think we are discussing here. I am hoping that these two types of rooms will continue. But I don't really see a need to make them free from pvp.
I understand that there are mech problems if people die in some places. So perhaps those places should be safe rooms, like libraries and jail cells.
Other than that, I think it would be nice if noobs had some degree of protection from mobiles and pvp for a very short time, perhaps until they have one skill with 10 ranks of exp in it or a total of 10 ranks of exp in skills earned over all. Basically enough time for them to get their bearings, get out of the character maker, find a mentor if they need one, and hopefully not get kills wandering into a hunting area that is not a noob hunting area or wandering out into an invasion they have no way to know is going on since they don't even have a gweth. I'm not sure that is best accomplished with safe rooms though. Perhaps a ward off for a short time?
"Sometimes you guys scare me."--Annwyl
"You people worry me."--GM Abasha
"Hmm..."--Z
ALBENSIF
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 10:58 PM UTC
5 minuters? No..more like a hour or more depending on how much ya train stuff its about the Exp you have, not the time it take to get get alive again,regardless, Safe spots should exist to a degree.I've use them in the past<in Town>,not to get away from a Player but to take a break from invasions to heal,regroup etc etc though not so much.Their certainly shouldnt be any Safe spots outta town.Could care less really.Everyone Pays to play,a dash of this a dash of that aint goona make a diff
XENODES
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 11:27 PM UTC
>>So you want everyone's homes and boats have the AFK scripting penalty added to it?<<
>>I would ideally like to remove all incentives to sit in an area where nobody can get to you for extended periods of time. - Mazrian
I agree. Too many players abuse the boat/house thing. I assume there is extra safety in AFK-scripting on a boat or in a house. It's especially worrying when some players such as Totenus are logged in 24-7. I trust there are mechanics to script-check them but I also assume some script-checking is player-initiated and for players with boats and houses, this provides at least a small sanctuary.
>>I would ideally like to remove all incentives to sit in an area where nobody can get to you for extended periods of time. - Mazrian
I agree. Too many players abuse the boat/house thing. I assume there is extra safety in AFK-scripting on a boat or in a house. It's especially worrying when some players such as Totenus are logged in 24-7. I trust there are mechanics to script-check them but I also assume some script-checking is player-initiated and for players with boats and houses, this provides at least a small sanctuary.
XENODES
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 11:37 PM UTC
>>No Riftal Summons in safe rooms either!!! Otherwise loop-camping can take place on a weakened/recently-departed spirit.<<
>The idea is that there will be virtually no safe rooms, so you will not have to worry about being RS'd out of one.- Mazrian
Depart rooms will likely remain safe. Inside those rooms, moon mages should not be able to RS you (otherwise an infinite loop of kills can occur).
>The idea is that there will be virtually no safe rooms, so you will not have to worry about being RS'd out of one.- Mazrian
Depart rooms will likely remain safe. Inside those rooms, moon mages should not be able to RS you (otherwise an infinite loop of kills can occur).
MIKEM1
Re: Safe Rooms and You
01/15/2010 11:42 PM UTC
I just hope that it's recognized that things like familiar/locate wards and teleport wards are another form of 'safe room' and they get the same treatment as no violence and no steal rooms at the end of the day.
You suddenly feel nauseous, as if you'd been doing performance art.
You suddenly feel nauseous, as if you'd been doing performance art.