I figured just to be fair I would take SLS out for a whirl. At first I was really impressed with the job it was doing, very consistently blowing away targets in my skill range in two shots.

Then I started using PD for comparison, and watched as it consistently one-shot everything at less mana, and without having to wait for the target to advance all the way to melee and attack me twice first. Then I used PD to two-shot a stronger critter that took three hits with SLS. I was able to repeat this several times. PD was also teaching TM better.

So my brief, unscientific but consistent and impression-making comparison of the two spells is that while using both at my personal cap, PD(29 mana) outperforms SLS(36 mana) by every important measure of spell performance during combat.

I could try testing different constellations over the next couple of days, and I'm willing to take advice on how to best make sure my results are as fair and valid as possible.

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact

Ruea says in Ilithic, "At least you're very handsome. That makes the fact that you're always right far easier to live with"

I thought this might draw some interest. In Plat tonight, we evidently had a meteor shower of some sort. I came in after it happened so I do not have all the details. Suffice to say, some parts of this shower survived. One in particular..

>look frag
Pale white light surrounds a crazed and pitted piece of iron. At first the fragment appears to glisten and shine with a crystalline quality, but upon closer examination you realize this is due to a layer of condensation that has frozen fast to its surface.

If you handle it without gloves you get frostbitten hands.. internal damage and some external I believe due to the cold.

>focus fragment
You feel an intense chill through your quilted gloves.
You focus your magical senses on a glowing iron fragment.
You detect an enormous charge of celestial energy emanating from the fragment.
The charge is inexorably dissipating but does not show any signs of stress yet.
While lesser magicians may perceive it as Lunar energy, you note that this magic is drawn down from the planets and stars far removed from Elanthia. Celestial energy in an unstructured form is highly unusual and bears detailed study.

>study fragment
You feel an intense chill through your quilted gloves.
Focusing wholly on your magical senses, you methodically examine the nature of the fragment.

RT is 17 seconds and just as it expires you see this..

Though the fragment is heavily charged with energy, you detect that there is no spell pattern or enchanting sigil behind it. Instead, it appears to be an exaggerated example of meteoric iron. A massive charge of celestial magic built up around the fragment during a time in the heavens, and now that it is on Elanthia that power is "winding down." The bitterly cold light is a manifestation of the escaping energy, akin to the forces called down by the Starlight Sphere spell.

While its composition suggests meteoric iron, this magic is evocative of an origin in the cold and distant stars. Astrologers have never managed to quantify the strength and distance of the stars, but that is because both are perceived to be larger than imagination. Someone who was examining the magical element out of context may leap to the conclusion that he is holding a star, but there's still enough Elanthia left intact to suggest that is not the case.

Whether an exceptional piece of meteoric iron or an infinitesimally small stellar fragment, it is undeniably sympathetic to Stellar Magic. You could likely amplify the Starlight Sphere spell with its presence.

Now, I, of course, had to go try it. While holding the fragment you cast SLS and you have...

You gesture.
Your glowing fragment provides a powerful sympathetic connection to the stars above.
Several motes of light gather, briefly forming a minute version of the constellation of The Brigantine before collapsing into a glittering cyan sphere.

Notice the extra line regarding the power. I have played a little bit with it and it does seem to add a bit of punch to the sphere. It took 3 hits to kill a rock troll when cast on the Giant constellation and without the fragment. Adding the fragment into it, sometimes it took only one hit to kill a rock troll. My range of study however, was rather limited, maybe a total of 20 or 30 trolls and not all with the same constellation sphere. I will post more as I find more. I have not been able to find any verbs to interact without beyond look/focus/study/appraise.

Oh and the app looks like this:

>app frag careful
The glowing fragment is made with metal.
You wonder if the glowing fragment might weigh a few stones.
You are certain that the glowing fragment is worth exactly nothing.


Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.

Wow, that's neat. If it wasn't for the very recent post saying that daylight SLS was out of the question, I'd say test it then. I wonder how common an item these will be or if they'll expire as mentioned in their description.

-Evran

"Constitutions are meant to protect minorities -- not to take rights away from people." - Bruce Bastian

See?





"Moon Mages have already been given some of the most ridiculously powerful magic in the game, third only to Warrior Mages and Barbarians" -Armifer

Got to check it out in Prime and it's identical there. Interacting with it (touch/tap/etc) gets you that same chill message that you get with the STUDY.

It also boosts PS for Clerics, and they get different info on focus/study. Don't have a copy of that yet though.

---

Rev. Reene

"There is an innocence in admiration; it is found in those to whom it has not yet occurred that they, too, might be admired some day."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

>>This thread started with the question, "what would it take to make you want SLS". Very shortly it was stated that the changes asked for were off the table.

One of the changes that have been brought up was put off the table. I mentioned a second request was irrelevant but that I may do anyway for the warm fuzzies people would seem to get out of it. I have not commented on the rest.

Coincidentally, we've done two separate and large boosts spell in the recent past. Three if you count the event related one players discovered last night.

The notion that we do not care about the spell and that it cannot possibly see change is absurd and groundless.

-Armifer
"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
-Viktor Frankl

>Coincidentally, we've done two separate and large boosts spell in the recent past.

So am I still seeing the right results from my test a couple days ago? Should PD still be outperforming SLS across the board even after those changes, or do I need to lrn2SLS?

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact

Ruea says in Ilithic, "At least you're very handsome. That makes the fact that you're always right far easier to live with"

>Some of the outstanding issues with it are problems within the magic system which will eventually need to be resolved, rather than in individual spells. The full-prepare-on-target problem makes pulse spells less appealing than they should, and the Lunar mana system -- among other problems -- produces way too large numbers on the high end. At the heart of the problem of growing out of SLS is that the system shouldn't let you grow out of ever caring about your mana.

OMG THE SKY IS FALLING. ahem

-- Mozzik, the Fateweaver

---

Caelumia says, "I love the tools even more."

>At the heart of the problem of growing out of SLS is that the system shouldn't let you grow out of ever caring about your mana.

This is misleading. It's not that I can just "not care" and be fine. It's just that I can easily serve my purposes (lock TM, survive a swarm) reliably if I fight smart. I still prep low and harness extra, and if I cast stupid or for a prolonged period at high levels I can and will run out. I think I certainly deserve the level of "mana stamina" I've acheived considering my skills though, and it's not like I have a free pass to cap every spell in my book whenever I want.

What exactly is the issue with "The full-prepare-on-target problem"? You still take an accuracy hit if you cast any faster, right? Isn't pulse spells taking an inherent accuracy penalty what really gives straight TM spells the advantage?

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact

Ruea says in Ilithic, "At least you're very handsome. That makes the fact that you're always right far easier to live with"

really the problem with SLS is the time to advance issue. Yes, it can go faster based on constellation. But thats still too slow. If it would leap to Melee with whoever i targeted it at and then started pulsing, even at a slightly reduced pulse speed (not so much that we're back to it being a pain to use though).

Opposed to this I still really like the idea of it attacking things that are at melee with me. It's important to consider that if that becomes the ONLY way to use the spell it would change it's role by a LOT. The spell would go from being THE over hunting TM spell in conjunction with WD to being an intresting defense through offense spell.

The best would be a combanation of the two. Neat little tricks like a pole or full room AOE affect of blowing it up would be neat and adored but i'm not all that hopefull in that regard.

-Serc


"Moon Mages have already been given some of the most ridiculously powerful magic in the game, third only to Warrior Mages and Barbarians" -Armifer

Multiple spheres? Multiple spikes? Multiple spheres AND spikes?

This has my stamp of approval.

-- Mozzik, the Fateweaver

---

Caelumia says, "I love the tools even more."

Honestly ditch the engagement time, give it a "charge into melee" first strike that's less accurate/weaker than usual. Boom done, problem solved.

-- Mozzik, the Fateweaver

---

Caelumia says, "I love the tools even more."

>>Doesn't the prep time you bypass get added on to time to reach full targeting?

I believe it was supposed to, but I do not believe it does. However, the point is that you can snap at capped mana.

Off topic... but humor me, what's so broken about ALA in particular? I haven't heard this rant.

Also I think he was just generally refering to the incredible amounts of mana we can eventually get up to since PP doesn't just stop dead at 540 ranks like room based mana. Which is a totally different problem.

-- Mozzik, the Fateweaver

---

Caelumia says, "I love the tools even more."

Ah, my mistake then. I read that as spell power. ALA does insane amounts of damage against an unshielded opponent, unparalleled for a non pulse spell. And CL is beyond compare at high levels.

I do agree that spells are overpowered in general, and that the snap cast of TM spells is too good. However, the binary affect of PM isn't limited to TM spells. Ripple? IOE? These were made binary by design, please fix them?

I assume he meant magically shielded.

-- Mozzik, the Fateweaver

---

Caelumia says, "I love the tools even more."

>>Ah, my mistake then. I read that as spell power.

Nope, mana levels. TM spell numbers are kinda funky too, but not in that way or nearly to that scope.

-Armifer
"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
-Viktor Frankl

"I do agree that spells are overpowered in general, and that the snap cast of TM spells is too good."

Compared to what, a snap shot of a "capped" ranged weapon at the same skill/stats? or a Backstab or ambushed melee slice with a capped blade? I do not think so. It is less that spells are overpowered and more that we are all around overpowered. And yet, since we all die now and then (if we hunt "at level") no matter how high up there in skill, maybe we are not overpowered at all unless we hunt below level.

I would like to get back to SLS, and i would especially like some feedback on the proposal to add a form of auto targeting to SLS .

Do the mechanics allow it?
Does it make sense according to spell lore?

The idea of TKTing an SLS to or at an opponent is freaking awesome.