Previous
Okay I have looked through the list one more time.
1) We will only if you want to avoid magic's be forced down the flamer path. Joke or whatever a better name needed.
2) Inviso ability really is not in it, in predatory path a boost to hiding. Right.
3) Barb's are now going to be asked to learn a "magic"? Or a whatever but to see it.
4) The names need work. Just having, no updates in a while bother me too. Details would be nice, if not communication
5) Choosing a path, then changing it "with time" "and coin" so to speak, makes me think of being a Mage.
6) I hate being pushed into a path just cause i want to avoid Magic users, maybe there is more flexabilty and more ```choices. At a cost to keeping it simple for barb's. Heck "hunt, keel, skin." was good for me and knowin a mage can ```not whack me to easy was good.
7) Ok forgive the whining, gonna go hunt, keel, skin. <and avoid mages>
I OWE it all to little chocolate donuts
JOHN BELUUSHI
MMEZZ2U
MOOK1
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 05:18 AM CDT
I'm not sure who's more confused, me or him.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
MMEZZ2U
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 05:28 AM CDT
Heh me I am sure
I OWE it all to little chocolate donuts
JOHN BELUUSHI
I OWE it all to little chocolate donuts
JOHN BELUUSHI
MOOK1
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 05:41 AM CDT
<<1) We will only if you want to avoid magic's be forced down the flamer path. Joke or whatever a better name needed.
No-one is being forced to do anything. The choices you make will impact the strengths and weaknesses of your character, but even just dabbling in the Path of the Flame will stand you in good stead against magic. The main difference in the new system is that you get more flexibility in your choices, both in selecting them and in using them. Its a win-win.
Also, Barbarian's have always had references to flames as part of their lore. If you can't get past the childish homophobic jokes that can be made about it then you should probably grow up.
2) Inviso ability really is not in it, in predatory path a boost to hiding. Right.
Right. Thanks for reiterating that.
3) Barb's are now going to be asked to learn a "magic"? Or a whatever but to see it.
As for the question, the answer is yes. The Magic skillset covers everything magical and supernatural now. Barbarians clearly belong to the supernatural side of the equation.
Not sure what your second sentence there means, since the grammar is atrocious.
4) The names need work. Just having, no updates in a while bother me too. Details would be nice, if not communication
Read the other posts following the thread. There have been several discussions of other names that involved both player suggestions and GM input. Feel free to provide suggestions yourself instead of just making homophobic jokes about them.
5) Choosing a path, then changing it "with time" "and coin" so to speak, makes me think of being a Mage.
Um, okay? Barbarians have been requesting a way to unlearn abilities for years and years. This is a very welcome change. Its a playability issue that Barbarians and Thieves have long been behind the curve on. And how does time and money in any way imply magic? The whole concept of forgetting an ability is mostly OOC anyway. Its not like the guy whacks your character on the head with a stick and poof, you've got selective amnesia for that one talent.
6) I hate being pushed into a path just cause i want to avoid Magic users, maybe there is more flexabilty and more ```choices. At a cost to keeping it simple for barb's. Heck "hunt, keel, skin." was good for me and knowin a mage can ```not whack me to easy was good.
This system is far, far, far more flexible and build-your-own Barbarian than previous systems. Heaven forbid you might actually have to make some choices about the direction your character takes. If you want a cookie-cutter 'this ability at this circle' guild, I suggest the Traders. They're not taking part in Magic 3.0 and won't gain any of its flexible goodness.
7) Ok forgive the whining, gonna go hunt, keel, skin. <and avoid mages>
Which you'll be able to do in the new system just as well. Both the whining and the Barbarian-ing.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
No-one is being forced to do anything. The choices you make will impact the strengths and weaknesses of your character, but even just dabbling in the Path of the Flame will stand you in good stead against magic. The main difference in the new system is that you get more flexibility in your choices, both in selecting them and in using them. Its a win-win.
Also, Barbarian's have always had references to flames as part of their lore. If you can't get past the childish homophobic jokes that can be made about it then you should probably grow up.
2) Inviso ability really is not in it, in predatory path a boost to hiding. Right.
Right. Thanks for reiterating that.
3) Barb's are now going to be asked to learn a "magic"? Or a whatever but to see it.
As for the question, the answer is yes. The Magic skillset covers everything magical and supernatural now. Barbarians clearly belong to the supernatural side of the equation.
Not sure what your second sentence there means, since the grammar is atrocious.
4) The names need work. Just having, no updates in a while bother me too. Details would be nice, if not communication
Read the other posts following the thread. There have been several discussions of other names that involved both player suggestions and GM input. Feel free to provide suggestions yourself instead of just making homophobic jokes about them.
5) Choosing a path, then changing it "with time" "and coin" so to speak, makes me think of being a Mage.
Um, okay? Barbarians have been requesting a way to unlearn abilities for years and years. This is a very welcome change. Its a playability issue that Barbarians and Thieves have long been behind the curve on. And how does time and money in any way imply magic? The whole concept of forgetting an ability is mostly OOC anyway. Its not like the guy whacks your character on the head with a stick and poof, you've got selective amnesia for that one talent.
6) I hate being pushed into a path just cause i want to avoid Magic users, maybe there is more flexabilty and more ```choices. At a cost to keeping it simple for barb's. Heck "hunt, keel, skin." was good for me and knowin a mage can ```not whack me to easy was good.
This system is far, far, far more flexible and build-your-own Barbarian than previous systems. Heaven forbid you might actually have to make some choices about the direction your character takes. If you want a cookie-cutter 'this ability at this circle' guild, I suggest the Traders. They're not taking part in Magic 3.0 and won't gain any of its flexible goodness.
7) Ok forgive the whining, gonna go hunt, keel, skin. <and avoid mages>
Which you'll be able to do in the new system just as well. Both the whining and the Barbarian-ing.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
FUTILITY
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 06:03 AM CDT
>>2) Inviso ability really is not in it, in predatory path a boost to hiding. Right.
>>Right. Thanks for reiterating that.
I think he was pointing out that there was an opportunity for Barbarians to get it with this rewrite and it didn't happen. With the proposed (confirmed?) changes to Stealth in 3.0, not having invisibility essentially means not using Stealth past the opening round of an engagement unless Lynx pulses a reset of the engagement's Stealth calculations. We don't really know enough yet to judge how useful/useless Stealth is going to be to Barbarians. Invisibility is the quick and dirty fix. Kodius may have written us something more elegant.
>>Um, okay? Barbarians have been requesting a way to unlearn abilities for years and years. This is a very welcome change. Its a playability issue that Barbarians and Thieves have long been behind the curve on. And how does time and money in any way imply magic? The whole concept of forgetting an ability is mostly OOC anyway. Its not like the guy whacks your character on the head with a stick and poof, you've got selective amnesia for that one talent.
Yes, yes, oh and yes, we've wanted to be able to choose new roars forever. As for being hit over the head with a stick, it's interesting that you mention it. At one juncture, that actually was the plan for Barbarian ability wipe: you get knocked over the head by Mo or some such. Amusing, but largely at odds with the "cultured, educated battle scholar" aesthetic of Tusfaov, which is now part of Barbarian lore. Tusfaov reminds me a lot of my military history professor.
>>This system is far, far, far more flexible and build-your-own Barbarian than previous systems. Heaven forbid you might actually have to make some choices about the direction your character takes. If you want a cookie-cutter 'this ability at this circle' guild, I suggest the Traders. They're not taking part in Magic 3.0 and won't gain any of its flexible goodness.
Actually, way back when, one of the reasons I opted to be a Barbarian is because there was no decision-making involved. All Barbarians were equally capable dependent on their skill training because ability progression was strictly linear. I can't believe I was alone in that sort of decision-making. I'm not concerned about the changes, however, aside from the names thing (and I've made my suggestions).
>>Right. Thanks for reiterating that.
I think he was pointing out that there was an opportunity for Barbarians to get it with this rewrite and it didn't happen. With the proposed (confirmed?) changes to Stealth in 3.0, not having invisibility essentially means not using Stealth past the opening round of an engagement unless Lynx pulses a reset of the engagement's Stealth calculations. We don't really know enough yet to judge how useful/useless Stealth is going to be to Barbarians. Invisibility is the quick and dirty fix. Kodius may have written us something more elegant.
>>Um, okay? Barbarians have been requesting a way to unlearn abilities for years and years. This is a very welcome change. Its a playability issue that Barbarians and Thieves have long been behind the curve on. And how does time and money in any way imply magic? The whole concept of forgetting an ability is mostly OOC anyway. Its not like the guy whacks your character on the head with a stick and poof, you've got selective amnesia for that one talent.
Yes, yes, oh and yes, we've wanted to be able to choose new roars forever. As for being hit over the head with a stick, it's interesting that you mention it. At one juncture, that actually was the plan for Barbarian ability wipe: you get knocked over the head by Mo or some such. Amusing, but largely at odds with the "cultured, educated battle scholar" aesthetic of Tusfaov, which is now part of Barbarian lore. Tusfaov reminds me a lot of my military history professor.
>>This system is far, far, far more flexible and build-your-own Barbarian than previous systems. Heaven forbid you might actually have to make some choices about the direction your character takes. If you want a cookie-cutter 'this ability at this circle' guild, I suggest the Traders. They're not taking part in Magic 3.0 and won't gain any of its flexible goodness.
Actually, way back when, one of the reasons I opted to be a Barbarian is because there was no decision-making involved. All Barbarians were equally capable dependent on their skill training because ability progression was strictly linear. I can't believe I was alone in that sort of decision-making. I'm not concerned about the changes, however, aside from the names thing (and I've made my suggestions).
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 07:11 AM CDT
>>This system is far, far, far more flexible and build-your-own Barbarian than previous systems. Heaven forbid you might actually have to make some choices about the direction your character takes. If you want a cookie-cutter 'this ability at this circle' guild, I suggest the Traders. They're not taking part in Magic 3.0 and won't gain any of its flexible goodness.
>Actually, way back when, one of the reasons I opted to be a Barbarian is because there was no decision-making involved. All Barbarians were equally capable dependent on their skill training because ability progression was strictly linear. I can't believe I was alone in that sort of decision-making. I'm not concerned about the changes, however, aside from the names thing (and I've made my suggestions).
This reminded me of something I had forgotten about. Thieves have some combination khri, where if they activate the needed 3-4 khri you get a additional bonuses on top of them for as long as they are all active. Once one of the required khri fall the combination deactivates as well.
Perhaps we could have something similar, yet kind of the opposite? If you say knew the abilities that bonus your ranged skill, perception, magic resistance, and let you dual load bows you could just "stance Eagle" to activate all of them, with some sort of additional bonus on top of it, perhaps duration or lowered cost. And instead of the stance dropping once one of the individual bonuses drops instead have them all even out so they all drop when the stance ends, so some of the abilities might last longer than usual but others might last shorter than usual. Anywho, just a suggestion.
Dragoonseal
>Actually, way back when, one of the reasons I opted to be a Barbarian is because there was no decision-making involved. All Barbarians were equally capable dependent on their skill training because ability progression was strictly linear. I can't believe I was alone in that sort of decision-making. I'm not concerned about the changes, however, aside from the names thing (and I've made my suggestions).
This reminded me of something I had forgotten about. Thieves have some combination khri, where if they activate the needed 3-4 khri you get a additional bonuses on top of them for as long as they are all active. Once one of the required khri fall the combination deactivates as well.
Perhaps we could have something similar, yet kind of the opposite? If you say knew the abilities that bonus your ranged skill, perception, magic resistance, and let you dual load bows you could just "stance Eagle" to activate all of them, with some sort of additional bonus on top of it, perhaps duration or lowered cost. And instead of the stance dropping once one of the individual bonuses drops instead have them all even out so they all drop when the stance ends, so some of the abilities might last longer than usual but others might last shorter than usual. Anywho, just a suggestion.
Dragoonseal
FUTILITY
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 08:24 AM CDT
>>Perhaps we could have something similar, yet kind of the opposite? If you say knew the abilities that bonus your ranged skill, perception, magic resistance, and let you dual load bows you could just "stance Eagle" to activate all of them, with some sort of additional bonus on top of it, perhaps duration or lowered cost. And instead of the stance dropping once one of the individual bonuses drops instead have them all even out so they all drop when the stance ends, so some of the abilities might last longer than usual but others might last shorter than usual. Anywho, just a suggestion.
Kodius mentioned he was considering the "suites" capability, where Barbarians could activate a range of abilities all at once. I haven't seen anything on it since, either confirmation or an update.
Kodius mentioned he was considering the "suites" capability, where Barbarians could activate a range of abilities all at once. I haven't seen anything on it since, either confirmation or an update.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 11:29 AM CDT
Hey, we only make fun of Paladins here. No jokes about flames...
Abilities to temper the effects of magic are available in all 3 paths.
Correct, no invisibility ability. I don't see how that would make sense given a Barbarian's aggressive nature and stealth secondary.
Barbarians are encouraged not to learn about magic. But if you want to understand finger-wagglers, well... can't have your cake and eat it too.
The names are hardly final. We plan to make adjustments to re-incorporate some of the old dances.
This update is about having more choices. The old guild was static, linear and you outgrew 90% of your abilities. No bueno. Though if you don't want choices, just pick and line and go with it. All 3 are playable.
We still have plans to let you group abilities and fire them off with a single command, and many improvements to the messaging and feedback associated with all abilities.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Abilities to temper the effects of magic are available in all 3 paths.
Correct, no invisibility ability. I don't see how that would make sense given a Barbarian's aggressive nature and stealth secondary.
Barbarians are encouraged not to learn about magic. But if you want to understand finger-wagglers, well... can't have your cake and eat it too.
The names are hardly final. We plan to make adjustments to re-incorporate some of the old dances.
This update is about having more choices. The old guild was static, linear and you outgrew 90% of your abilities. No bueno. Though if you don't want choices, just pick and line and go with it. All 3 are playable.
We still have plans to let you group abilities and fire them off with a single command, and many improvements to the messaging and feedback associated with all abilities.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
FUTILITY
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 04:19 PM CDT
>>The names are hardly final. We plan to make adjustments to re-incorporate some of the old dances.
This constitutes having our cake and eating it too.
>>This update is about having more choices. The old guild was static, linear and you outgrew 90% of your abilities. No bueno. Though if you don't want choices, just pick and line and go with it. All 3 are playable.
Well, to be fair the only one that really gets left by the wayside is Wolverine and most of the berserks. Most of the other dances see use even at higher circles and roars...well, provided you didn't gimp yourself with battle cries, they were good at any circle. So while the guild was roughly linear...it was linear in a way that was only slightly wasteful in comparison to the wastefulness of some of the other guilds with their disposable spells and abilities.
>>We still have plans to let you group abilities and fire them off with a single command, and many improvements to the messaging and feedback associated with all abilities.
Great news, thanks Kodius.
This constitutes having our cake and eating it too.
>>This update is about having more choices. The old guild was static, linear and you outgrew 90% of your abilities. No bueno. Though if you don't want choices, just pick and line and go with it. All 3 are playable.
Well, to be fair the only one that really gets left by the wayside is Wolverine and most of the berserks. Most of the other dances see use even at higher circles and roars...well, provided you didn't gimp yourself with battle cries, they were good at any circle. So while the guild was roughly linear...it was linear in a way that was only slightly wasteful in comparison to the wastefulness of some of the other guilds with their disposable spells and abilities.
>>We still have plans to let you group abilities and fire them off with a single command, and many improvements to the messaging and feedback associated with all abilities.
Great news, thanks Kodius.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 04:25 PM CDT
>>We still have plans to let you group abilities and fire them off with a single command, and many improvements to the messaging and feedback associated with all abilities.
Cool
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 05:19 PM CDT
>The names are hardly final. We plan to make adjustments to re-incorporate some of the old dances.
>We still have plans to let you group abilities and fire them off with a single command, and many improvements to the messaging and feedback associated with all abilities.
Excellent! This is the best of both worlds, very glad to hear it is still planned.
>We still have plans to let you group abilities and fire them off with a single command, and many improvements to the messaging and feedback associated with all abilities.
Excellent! This is the best of both worlds, very glad to hear it is still planned.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/09/2011 08:34 PM CDT
>>forced down the flamer path. Joke or whatever a better name needed.<<
Not really a fan of this type of joke, and if you can't handle something being called the path of flame because you immediately want to call it the path of flamer, you probably need to grow up.... just saying.
Not really a fan of this type of joke, and if you can't handle something being called the path of flame because you immediately want to call it the path of flamer, you probably need to grow up.... just saying.
MOOK1
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/10/2011 01:32 AM CDT
<<Also, Barbarian's have always had references to flames as part of their lore. If you can't get past the childish homophobic jokes that can be made about it then you should probably grow up.
<<Not really a fan of this type of joke, and if you can't handle something being called the path of flame because you immediately want to call it the path of flamer, you probably need to grow up.... just saying.
Wait... I agree with Discoteq? The good pastor was correct. The world truly is ending.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
<<Not really a fan of this type of joke, and if you can't handle something being called the path of flame because you immediately want to call it the path of flamer, you probably need to grow up.... just saying.
Wait... I agree with Discoteq? The good pastor was correct. The world truly is ending.
-Evran
The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.
MMEZZ2U
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/10/2011 02:45 AM CDT
Thanks for the heads up Kodius. I think I need to apologize first for the terrible way I post, just not good at it. I also used a term that seems to have brought umbrage to some. So I apologize for using that term on DR-barbarian forums.
Maybe in 3.0 there can be a barbarian sensitivity training class with Mo. It was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings, Ill refrain from using politically incorrect terms here.
I OWE it all to little chocolate donuts
JOHN BELUUSHI
Maybe in 3.0 there can be a barbarian sensitivity training class with Mo. It was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings, Ill refrain from using politically incorrect terms here.
I OWE it all to little chocolate donuts
JOHN BELUUSHI
MOD-SVAFA
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
06/10/2011 03:14 AM CDT
I think this vein of the thread is done.
Let's move on.
Thanks.
Svafa
Let's move on.
Thanks.
Svafa
RAIST
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 01:58 AM CST
I like, a lot.
Especially Bear form, it's like you made one just for me.
Drool.
That said, care to talk about the costs associated with the starred abilities?
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
Especially Bear form, it's like you made one just for me.
Drool.
That said, care to talk about the costs associated with the starred abilities?
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
DGUTHRIE2
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 03:03 AM CST
Love it. Really like some of the concepts behind the different features and abilities. Can't wait to try them out.
________________________________________
NMUs are not people. -GM Armifer
________________________________________
NMUs are not people. -GM Armifer
NJP
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 03:23 AM CST
>>Please let me know what you think!
I think I love you, man!
Just based on coolness factor, Sacrifice and Earthquake are on my tentative "Must Have" list. Particularly if "flips out" is made a part of the actual messaging for the latter.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
I think I love you, man!
Just based on coolness factor, Sacrifice and Earthquake are on my tentative "Must Have" list. Particularly if "flips out" is made a part of the actual messaging for the latter.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
COVERG
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 03:45 AM CST
Sounds interesting got to think about it a bit more. I thought we already met 100% of the global caps out there. With all the down tweaks over the years we have been hit with. Are the global caps being lowered?
And a suggestion on sharksteeth - allows you the use of a berserk you do not yet know!
Expertiese question on favorite weapon. Would I choose all edged or only 1 like 2he? Still planning on 1 more at 75 and 1 more at 150?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Transcendent Barbarian of M'Riss
And a suggestion on sharksteeth - allows you the use of a berserk you do not yet know!
Expertiese question on favorite weapon. Would I choose all edged or only 1 like 2he? Still planning on 1 more at 75 and 1 more at 150?
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Transcendent Barbarian of M'Riss
CHRISSY-QUE
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 05:37 AM CST
Nice list. I'm really looking forward to trying out a lot of these.
Questions:
1) There's been a lot of talk about being able to un-learn roars same as mages un-learn spells; What about forms/berserks? Will those also be treated the same?
2) I'm intrigued by Sacrifice. Elaborate?
3) Can you tell us a little more about infused chakrel, and if it's better quality, will there be a way to upgrade perfect chakrel into it? As rare as chakrel alterations are, praying to god I get another one or having to stick with subpar material makes me =\
and lastly, the only question that -really- matters:
4) LT Expertise. There's at least two of us who are going to pick this. Considering we don't have an attack combo in the current system to upgrade like in your Slice/Rend example, what kinds of abilities will we possibly be seeing?
(PS. will there be offhand feats, besides the dual-wielding with whirlwind?)
Thanks again for all your hard work, Kodius. I know this rewrite is going to be awesome.
Questions:
1) There's been a lot of talk about being able to un-learn roars same as mages un-learn spells; What about forms/berserks? Will those also be treated the same?
2) I'm intrigued by Sacrifice. Elaborate?
3) Can you tell us a little more about infused chakrel, and if it's better quality, will there be a way to upgrade perfect chakrel into it? As rare as chakrel alterations are, praying to god I get another one or having to stick with subpar material makes me =\
and lastly, the only question that -really- matters:
4) LT Expertise. There's at least two of us who are going to pick this. Considering we don't have an attack combo in the current system to upgrade like in your Slice/Rend example, what kinds of abilities will we possibly be seeing?
(PS. will there be offhand feats, besides the dual-wielding with whirlwind?)
Thanks again for all your hard work, Kodius. I know this rewrite is going to be awesome.
SAUVA
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 07:04 AM CST
So barbs get merrula's flame, roar concussive, veil of ice, confound enemies, mantle of flame, flush poisons, and invincibility to boot.
We'll have an invincible, unwoundable, unstatus-effectable, stun fleeing, character that if you ever do manage to kill will just self raise and kill you in the process. I have a hard time imagining a version of DR where this can be remotely balanced...
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
We'll have an invincible, unwoundable, unstatus-effectable, stun fleeing, character that if you ever do manage to kill will just self raise and kill you in the process. I have a hard time imagining a version of DR where this can be remotely balanced...
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 08:15 AM CST
Looks like a super fun list, I am now jealous :P
Dragon Dance laughs in the face of Global Caps currently as it is percent based :P At 800, 900 or even 1000 base ranks in a weapon skill you're talking about gaining at least an additional 200+ weapon ranks just from having Dragon Dance up presently.
Eh...
1) I'm not sure they'll be able to have all of those up at the same time because
2) I think they're all along different paths or something.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
| I thought we already met 100% of the global caps out there. With all the down tweaks over the years we have been hit with. Are the global caps being lowered? |
Dragon Dance laughs in the face of Global Caps currently as it is percent based :P At 800, 900 or even 1000 base ranks in a weapon skill you're talking about gaining at least an additional 200+ weapon ranks just from having Dragon Dance up presently.
| So barbs get merrula's flame, roar concussive, veil of ice, confound enemies, mantle of flame, flush poisons, and invincibility to boot. |
| We'll have an invincible, unwoundable, unstatus-effectable, stun fleeing, character that if you ever do manage to kill will just self raise and kill you in the process. I have a hard time imagining a version of DR where this can be remotely balanced... |
Eh...
1) I'm not sure they'll be able to have all of those up at the same time because
2) I think they're all along different paths or something.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
MOCKERJB
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 08:27 AM CST
That looks like an insanely fun and powerful list.
I am interested to see how they balance out in use.
I am interested to see how they balance out in use.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 08:31 AM CST
| Turtle Form - A most potent form that substantially reduces the potency of incoming magical attacks. Limits the use of some other abilities while in effect. |
| Serenity Meditation - Invokes the most powerful of barriers, capable of ripping magic apart before it can draw close. |
Curious, do both of these abilities prevent a Barbarian from using his/her own abilities similar to the Shear or Worm's Mist spell? Or does that rule only apply to the Turtle Form?
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
THOMPSONJ209
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 08:33 AM CST
| Eh... |
| 1) I'm not sure they'll be able to have all of those up at the same time because |
| 2) I think they're all along different paths or something. |
This and several of the effects listed there are meditations. End game only one meditations can be up...
I think with the fact only 4 forms can be up at end game speaks volumes about the balancing of these abilities.
VAWN
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:02 AM CST
My one question is, how locked into the paths are we? That is, can you only learn abilities from one path?
~Talo, Prydaen Barbarian~
~Talo, Prydaen Barbarian~
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:07 AM CST
Hanryu- come on back to the Ranger Folders... we're getting companions soon.
As for the list, wow.
I'd love to see how the pathways are chosen, and how easy (or difficult) it will be to switch them.
As for the list, wow.
I'd love to see how the pathways are chosen, and how easy (or difficult) it will be to switch them.
VEE-REX
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:22 AM CST
Sounds great. Powerful and balanced.
>>My one question is, how locked into the paths are we? That is, can you only learn abilities from one path?
No. You can learn multiple abilities from different paths. Some of the stronger abilities in a certain path might have pre-reqs in that same path.
Looking at the list, I already know which abilities I'll be using. I think it'd be cool if we had a meditation that allowed us to use 5 forms and 2 berserks, or 4 forms and 3 berserks.
>>Curious, do both of these abilities prevent a Barbarian from using his/her own abilities similar to the Shear or Worm's Mist spell? Or does that rule only apply to the Turtle Form?
Serenity, I believe, is that anti-magic barrier that prevents a Barb from using any of his/her abilities. It's going to be the most powerful anti-magic barrier for Barbs, and so we won't be able to use anything else with it up.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>My one question is, how locked into the paths are we? That is, can you only learn abilities from one path?
No. You can learn multiple abilities from different paths. Some of the stronger abilities in a certain path might have pre-reqs in that same path.
Looking at the list, I already know which abilities I'll be using. I think it'd be cool if we had a meditation that allowed us to use 5 forms and 2 berserks, or 4 forms and 3 berserks.
>>Curious, do both of these abilities prevent a Barbarian from using his/her own abilities similar to the Shear or Worm's Mist spell? Or does that rule only apply to the Turtle Form?
Serenity, I believe, is that anti-magic barrier that prevents a Barb from using any of his/her abilities. It's going to be the most powerful anti-magic barrier for Barbs, and so we won't be able to use anything else with it up.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:24 AM CST
>>I have a hard time imagining a version of DR where this can be remotely balanced...
The other posters have pointed out the flaws with your imagination.
Please try to not take the list out of context. 10 types of abilities does not mean they can all be brought to bear in a single alpha-strike. Inner Fire is a limiting factor in terms of what abilities can be used, and when. The 3 paths limit what abilities are even known.
Simply put - if you prepare and enter combat with all your forms going, you will have a dinky amount of inner fire pool left for roars and berserks. Get hit with a stun and you MIGHT be able to berserk out of it. But there is no way to become invincible and get a second chance at killing things.
However, if you settle for just a form or two, then yes you may be able to pull off some tricks, but you'll have to make sacrifices in terms of what skill boosts are in effect. It is a balance and it won't make perfect sense until you see how the power pool limits overpowered combinations from occuring.
Meditations cannot be enacted in combat, so you'll have to plan ahead. Do you want this, or that in effect. It is all about choices.
>> flush poisons
I didn't post anything about that. Perhaps you are misreading one of the descriptions?
>>Curious, do both of these abilities prevent a Barbarian from using his/her own abilities similar to the Shear or Worm's Mist spell? Or does that rule only apply to the Turtle Form?
I forgot to mention it with Serenity. You are unable to Roar, Berserk or use other Meditations while that is in effect because it is so potent. We are following the same design concepts that other guilds are using with their protective abilities.
>>1) There's been a lot of talk about being able to un-learn roars same as mages un-learn spells; What about forms/berserks? Will those also be treated the same?
Yes. All abilities will be unlearnable with time and coin.
>>3) Can you tell us a little more about infused chakrel, and if it's better quality, will there be a way to upgrade perfect chakrel into it? As rare as chakrel alterations are, praying to god I get another one or having to stick with subpar material makes me =\
You will be able to infuse existing perfect chakrel.
>>4) LT Expertise. There's at least two of us who are going to pick this. Considering we don't have an attack combo in the current system to upgrade like in your Slice/Rend example, what kinds of abilities will we possibly be seeing?
Each type of expertise will unlock new attack combos. So, even with my example you would still have SLICE, its just that REND is a different take on it (more offense, less defense, and if you kill something it looks awesome).
Thrown might get things like throwing two weapons at once, throwing an item to trip an enemy, throwing an item to interrupt a spell preparation, etc. A lot of how this ends up looking depends on my ability to incorporate it with the combat system.
I'd love to plan for offhand specialization, and offer specific attacks for dual weapon users.
>>Are the global caps being lowered?
Sorta. When the guild tries to bonus something outside of your sphere, it won't be as strong of a bonus. The skill bonuses are also capped across the board in a new manner that will prevent outrageous combinations that dominate the game.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
The other posters have pointed out the flaws with your imagination.
Please try to not take the list out of context. 10 types of abilities does not mean they can all be brought to bear in a single alpha-strike. Inner Fire is a limiting factor in terms of what abilities can be used, and when. The 3 paths limit what abilities are even known.
Simply put - if you prepare and enter combat with all your forms going, you will have a dinky amount of inner fire pool left for roars and berserks. Get hit with a stun and you MIGHT be able to berserk out of it. But there is no way to become invincible and get a second chance at killing things.
However, if you settle for just a form or two, then yes you may be able to pull off some tricks, but you'll have to make sacrifices in terms of what skill boosts are in effect. It is a balance and it won't make perfect sense until you see how the power pool limits overpowered combinations from occuring.
Meditations cannot be enacted in combat, so you'll have to plan ahead. Do you want this, or that in effect. It is all about choices.
>> flush poisons
I didn't post anything about that. Perhaps you are misreading one of the descriptions?
>>Curious, do both of these abilities prevent a Barbarian from using his/her own abilities similar to the Shear or Worm's Mist spell? Or does that rule only apply to the Turtle Form?
I forgot to mention it with Serenity. You are unable to Roar, Berserk or use other Meditations while that is in effect because it is so potent. We are following the same design concepts that other guilds are using with their protective abilities.
>>1) There's been a lot of talk about being able to un-learn roars same as mages un-learn spells; What about forms/berserks? Will those also be treated the same?
Yes. All abilities will be unlearnable with time and coin.
>>3) Can you tell us a little more about infused chakrel, and if it's better quality, will there be a way to upgrade perfect chakrel into it? As rare as chakrel alterations are, praying to god I get another one or having to stick with subpar material makes me =\
You will be able to infuse existing perfect chakrel.
>>4) LT Expertise. There's at least two of us who are going to pick this. Considering we don't have an attack combo in the current system to upgrade like in your Slice/Rend example, what kinds of abilities will we possibly be seeing?
Each type of expertise will unlock new attack combos. So, even with my example you would still have SLICE, its just that REND is a different take on it (more offense, less defense, and if you kill something it looks awesome).
Thrown might get things like throwing two weapons at once, throwing an item to trip an enemy, throwing an item to interrupt a spell preparation, etc. A lot of how this ends up looking depends on my ability to incorporate it with the combat system.
I'd love to plan for offhand specialization, and offer specific attacks for dual weapon users.
>>Are the global caps being lowered?
Sorta. When the guild tries to bonus something outside of your sphere, it won't be as strong of a bonus. The skill bonuses are also capped across the board in a new manner that will prevent outrageous combinations that dominate the game.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
FUTILITY
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:31 AM CST
Abilities themselves look spectacular, not digging the (re)names on the whole.
Please consider leaving most of the old names intact (I can see why Eagle needed to change, but other than that...). Badgers, in particular, are awesome and need to remain part of Barbarian iconography.
Please consider leaving most of the old names intact (I can see why Eagle needed to change, but other than that...). Badgers, in particular, are awesome and need to remain part of Barbarian iconography.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:45 AM CST
>>
Thrown might get things like throwing two weapons at once, throwing an item to trip an enemy, throwing an item to interrupt a spell preparation, etc. A lot of how this ends up looking depends on my ability to incorporate it with the combat system.
I'd love to plan for offhand specialization, and offer specific attacks for dual weapon users.
<<
I am hoping Barbarians will not be the only ones able to dual wield :(
Offhand Weapon: 810 24% considering
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
Thrown might get things like throwing two weapons at once, throwing an item to trip an enemy, throwing an item to interrupt a spell preparation, etc. A lot of how this ends up looking depends on my ability to incorporate it with the combat system.
I'd love to plan for offhand specialization, and offer specific attacks for dual weapon users.
<<
I am hoping Barbarians will not be the only ones able to dual wield :(
Offhand Weapon: 810 24% considering
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:46 AM CST
Anything designed in terms of expertise maneuvers would be available for other guilds to make use of in their own way.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
STORMSPIRIT
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:48 AM CST
Things that block weapons: Evasion, shield, parry, armor ranks, stats. Spells and abilities that buff those, and also damage absorbers.
Things that block TM: Evasion, shield, parry, armor ranks, stats. Spells and abilities that buff those, and also damage absorbers. Barrier spells to interfere with magic. Barrier spells to protect self. One-shot barriers to stop an offensive cast. MR abilities in all shapes and sizes.
Perhaps barbarians can suffer a penalty to their weapon ranks when using a form or other ability that increases their magical or physical defense? This reproduces the hindrance that the new MU barrier spells impose on the caster.
This would also help balance that barbarians have the ability to boost both physical defenses (helping against offensive magic), and MR (helping against offensive magic). MUs are limited to physical defense abilities to stop weapon attacks.
In other words, nerf basilisk arrows.
Things that block TM: Evasion, shield, parry, armor ranks, stats. Spells and abilities that buff those, and also damage absorbers. Barrier spells to interfere with magic. Barrier spells to protect self. One-shot barriers to stop an offensive cast. MR abilities in all shapes and sizes.
Perhaps barbarians can suffer a penalty to their weapon ranks when using a form or other ability that increases their magical or physical defense? This reproduces the hindrance that the new MU barrier spells impose on the caster.
This would also help balance that barbarians have the ability to boost both physical defenses (helping against offensive magic), and MR (helping against offensive magic). MUs are limited to physical defense abilities to stop weapon attacks.
In other words, nerf basilisk arrows.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:48 AM CST
Thank you Kodius!! <3
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:54 AM CST
>>Perhaps barbarians can suffer a penalty to their weapon ranks when using a form or other ability that increases their magical or physical defense?
Barbarians will be unable to use some (or most) of their abilities when enacting the more uniquely powerful abilities. Further penalties probably do not make sense in light of that.
>>MUs are limited to physical defense abilities to stop weapon attacks.
I would argue that most guilds have ways to bonus their magical defenses too... but with similar restrictions as I mentioned above.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Barbarians will be unable to use some (or most) of their abilities when enacting the more uniquely powerful abilities. Further penalties probably do not make sense in light of that.
>>MUs are limited to physical defense abilities to stop weapon attacks.
I would argue that most guilds have ways to bonus their magical defenses too... but with similar restrictions as I mentioned above.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
FUTILITY
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 10:57 AM CST
>>I am hoping Barbarians will not be the only ones able to dual wield :(
Like Kodius indicated, I believe the thrust behind 3.0 is for the majority of mechanics to be shared. That said, being Weapons primary should have advantages when it comes to, you know, things that deal with weapons.
>>Perhaps barbarians can suffer a penalty to their weapon ranks when using a form or other ability that increases their magical or physical defense? This reproduces the hindrance that the new MU barrier spells impose on the caster.
Barbarians can't use their abilities with Serenity up. With Toad, supposedly, it's going to be more difficult (I'm assuming this means it will use a lot of IF pool or something similar). Everyone can use weapons and their defenses normally with anti-magic barriers.
Like Kodius indicated, I believe the thrust behind 3.0 is for the majority of mechanics to be shared. That said, being Weapons primary should have advantages when it comes to, you know, things that deal with weapons.
>>Perhaps barbarians can suffer a penalty to their weapon ranks when using a form or other ability that increases their magical or physical defense? This reproduces the hindrance that the new MU barrier spells impose on the caster.
Barbarians can't use their abilities with Serenity up. With Toad, supposedly, it's going to be more difficult (I'm assuming this means it will use a lot of IF pool or something similar). Everyone can use weapons and their defenses normally with anti-magic barriers.
JARRETTJ26
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 11:25 AM CST
I feel like a 6 year old kid, and the Sears Christmas catalog just arrived.....I WANT IT ALL....
if you are too young to remember the sears catalogs....shaddup
C
if you are too young to remember the sears catalogs....shaddup
C
RIDDLYN069
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 11:25 AM CST
I'm certainly excited about these. They look great and I already see several must see abilities. Along with one that is great for RP purpose for me character
Oderint Dum Metuant
Oderint Dum Metuant
FENRIS
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 11:35 AM CST
At one point you were saying that people would be able to pick abilities from multiple "paths". Can we have an idea of which abilities would be the pinnacle/exclusive and which would be mixable?
I know we can use multiple forms/meditations but can we use multiple berserks at once (while using forms/meditations)?
I know we can use multiple forms/meditations but can we use multiple berserks at once (while using forms/meditations)?
MOCKERJB
Re: Tentative Barbarian Ability List
03/06/2011 11:55 AM CST
<<Barbarians can't use their abilities with Serenity up>>
I read it to say that barbarians can still use forms with serenity up, IF willing. Maybe I'm reading that wrong.
It seems like the list is pretty set in terms of maintaining barb anti-magic supremacy while also offering a huge range of flexible boosts/utility options.
I read it to say that barbarians can still use forms with serenity up, IF willing. Maybe I'm reading that wrong.
It seems like the list is pretty set in terms of maintaining barb anti-magic supremacy while also offering a huge range of flexible boosts/utility options.
