>I've been flat-out told by GMs that have issued me warnings that if the exact same situation was reported now that was reported X years ago that I wouldn't be issued a warning.

I appreciate the rest of the points there and will conceed the sentiments are simply too alien for me to comprehend, but...

The above is explicitly stated in the agreements. So why is that emotionally charged?

---

"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer

>If you were potentially going to lose access to DR for 30 days because of a minor altercation provoked by someone else, wouldn't you be a little mad?

Maybe I don't like DR that much. I'd be sad about the money, those fourteen bucks are the entirety of my sad little entertainment budget.

---

"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer

I tend to think things too literally but... you don't need a subscription to read the boards. I followed them on and off during the four years I couldn't afford one.

It's really no less intuitive and easy to navigate without place saving.

...but I wont' have time to check these again until Friday if your goal is just to get rid of me :P

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"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer

>>But you completely control that. You choose the actions your character takes and you know that some actions can result in penalties. You could instead choose to RP in a non-violent way. As an example- I have absolutely no fear of being locked out for 30 days- I don't tend to start conflict and conflict doesn't seem to come to me

You don't completely control it at all, what you're saying is like preaching abstinence to prevent pregnancy. Yeah sure it's the only 100% way to guarantee it won't happen but it's really no fun at all.

Believe it or not a lot of people enjoy PvP in dragonrealms. If they wanted this game to be purely non violent snuggly RP then they would have put in a mechanic to prevent PvP completely.

... there was a time when attacking other players taught exp?


-Mr. Glemm

>>... there was a time when attacking other players taught exp?

Not that I remember and I'd be surprised if it ever did since way back when PvP was discouraged if not actually forbidden.

<<But you completely control that. You choose the actions your character takes and you know that some actions can result in penalties. You could instead choose to RP in a non-violent way. As an example- I have absolutely no fear of being locked out for 30 days- I don't tend to start conflict and conflict doesn't seem to come to me.>>

Sure, the player controls that. The unfortunate part is that they may have decided to play a character who seeks conflict, or has too much pride to back down, or is so insecure that they lash out whenever insulted, or likes to violently avenge more vulnerable characters etc. People play these kind of characters, small and big. The point is that playing through these character concepts can and often does end up in a GM talk, if the other party is closed/guarded.

There's a lot of talk about guarded people being totally okay with conflict, as long as it's RPed. The problem is that you won't be examining the "Was it RPed well enough?" question until you just got smoked. You're probably not in the best mood at that point, as a player (very, very few people are detached enough to not care at all OOC when their character gets killed). So basically, you're dead, you can report and bust a person, or you can just take your kill in stride.

My experience is that it's very hard for a person to believe a conflict was RPed properly...when they just got smoked. If they won, well then it was stellar RP.

Open says you're willing to avoid that subjective ex post judgment.

That said, I understand the guarded/closed argument. For some people, the extremely rare random/unjustified violent encounter is not worth the potential fun that comes from Open interactions. To some people, no form of PvP violence is fun (but they often love GMPC v PC, known boundaries maybe?).

I don't really care which setting people choose, but I would encourage people to at least try Open. When and if you ever are attacked, try RPing it. Gweth, get word out about what happened and who did it. If it was truly undeserved, there's a lot of people out there that would like to RP the conflict.

>>You choose the actions your character takes and you know that some actions can result in penalties. You could instead choose to RP in a non-violent way.<<

I don't disagree with you. There is almost always an opportunity to walk away before a situation would involve policy. We can always choose to ignore provocation or to decline to provoke someone, and DR would probably be a more orderly place if people exercised that option a little more often.

I'm not sure that the best way to make someone think twice before escalating to violence is with a strong PvP policy like the one we have now. The current PvP policy creates some perverse incentives. For example, Policy encourages passive aggression by rewarding people who can push someone's buttons while skirting the threshold that Policy requires for that person to use force. Policy also encourages the strong to bully the weak. If you know you can deal with someone and know you can deal with their spouse, there is nothing to stop you from taking even the most minor provocation as an invitation to violence. People get VERY brave and VERY uncivil when they're confidant they're going to win.

And PvP policy doesn't really prevent griefing behavior. If your objective is to stop someone from having a good time there are plenty of ways to do it without engaging in PvP.

None of that is really healthy for the gaming environment.


- Mazrian

The Flying Company
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/huldahspal/flyingcompany.png

People also get very uncivil when they thought they were going to win and then don't.

The system has its plus and minuses.

-Mr. Glemm

<<I don't understand why people devolve to the point where murder is the goal when it is most obviously an attempt to prove a point. I look at it like the 18th and 19th century codes of honor.>>

Dragonrealms is a bit more brutal than those eras. From what I can tell, it's made that way by design. Check out the combat messaging, the hardcore weaponry...

In a game that's more medieval than renaissance, I'd say that throwing down and killing someone is a perfectly acceptable way of solving a problem.

-Mr. Glemm

<<Except that we must curb that brutality and bring a note of civility into proceedings to fit with the "laws" as set forth by the GMs, when interacting with other players. It was perfectly fine in the middle ages to kill a peasant, but not a noble. We may not be royalty, but we're a notch above the peasants.>>

Not really, no.


-Mr. Glemm

It's incorrect to say DR's setting belongs to any particular RL time period or culture. We exist in a setting that embraces steam-powered machinery and steampunk fashion and kimonos and katanas, yet seemingly completely rejects gunpowder and related technologies.

More on-topic, I generally go into conflicts expecting to lose. It helps.

---

Rev. Reene

Your mind hears Aislynn thinking, "Hrrr. Just not Caelumia. She creates multi-dimensional pain that defies the laws of anatomy."
Your mind hears Azatia thinking, "she's good like that"

The questions I like to ask is... if you are Closed/Guarded, would you still report if someone randomly out of the blue attacked you but couldn't hit you at all? Would you do it if they one-shot you? This should be a poll!

---

Vinjince Rexem'lor

<<The questions I like to ask is... if you are Closed/Guarded, would you still report if someone randomly out of the blue attacked you but couldn't hit you at all? Would you do it if they one-shot you? This should be a poll!>>

Excellent question- I'm sure the poll answer would be yes, but real examples would end up stacking up in the no column.


-Mr. Glemm

>>The questions I like to ask is... if you are Closed/Guarded, would you still report if someone randomly out of the blue attacked you but couldn't hit you at all? Would you do it if they one-shot you? This should be a poll!<<

Both my prime characters are Closed. Both have been killed more than once. I've never reported, nor will I.


________________________________________

<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>

You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.

Solomon

>>INSOLENTWRAITH>There's a lot of talk about guarded people being totally okay with conflict, as long as it's RPed. The problem is that you won't be examining the "Was it RPed well enough?" question until you just got smoked. You're probably not in the best mood at that point, as a player (very, very few people are detached enough to not care at all OOC when their character gets killed). So basically, you're dead, you can report and bust a person, or you can just take your kill in stride.

>>INSOLENTWRAITH>My experience is that it's very hard for a person to believe a conflict was RPed properly...when they just got smoked. If they won, well then it was stellar RP.

I agree wholeheartedly.

>>VEE-REX>The questions I like to ask is... if you are Closed/Guarded, would you still report if someone randomly out of the blue attacked you but couldn't hit you at all? Would you do it if they one-shot you? This should be a poll!

A lot of my character's PvP experiences have started because she is an Empath, who is low circle, and therefore ought to be easy meat. Szrael is reasonably polite to most people (there are exceptions) but she won't put up with crap from people. I have tried to play her this way even when she was still a commoner or a 15th circle Empath hunting morah vines or sand sprites.

Back when she was lower and had lower combats, she'd still get in lots of fights, but people would kill her, over and over and over, and no one ever reported that, even if she initiated the attack. Navak once called my character "That Empath everyone and their mother kills for fun."

But later on, when she got rather abnormally beefy for an Empath, people would still pick fights with her, but would often report if they lost, even if they initiated the attacking.

This is one of the things that really irritates me about many, many guarded and closed people, as others have mentioned upthread.

Killing an Empath who backtalks to you is great RP, but being killed by an Empath who you attacked is awful and the Empath is an OOC [redacted] who deserves to be walked or locked out of the game.

I have tried not to change the way I play my character, but the outcomes are different. She wins more than she loses and I end up in the consultation suite many, many times more often than when my character was a 30th circler getting beat down by Toggish WMs every other week.

If someone would seriously report being attacked by a 15th circle Empath just the same as they would a 150th Barbarian, fine. But I don't think that's how most people work, and I find the differing responses somewhat deceitful.

-- Player of Szrael --

---

The road to wisdom? -- Well, it's plain
and simple to express:
Err, and err, and err again,
but less, and less, and less.

http://empathunion.com

I went open for a time and I was attacked randomly, it ended badly for the attacker. I changed to guarded not because I wish an I win button but there are times that I am out stirring the political pot and a random out of the blue attack would seriously impede my time.

I will also say I do not refer to profile to decide how I wil rp with another. Nor does circle matter to me, if they are young and raise my ire enough to make me draw a weapon I am most likely going to use it. There are times I thump the offender or I will sometimes remove myself from the area, this is usually due to RP reasons. I will not attack anyone unless ordered to in the Tower. That would be counter to my rp in respect to the Tower.

I also cannot remember the last time I was in consult for PVP though I do find myself in PVP time to time. I will only report for harassment generally and frown upon others deciding what justice is for my character hence the no reporting. I have been given language warnings I think that was the last warning I recieved.

I look at things like this; It takes all kinds to make the world and I prefer this world to have conflict good and bad guys is generally a perspective. There are many rulers and people that hate my Queen and consider her a bad guy. I however think she is awesome and Rp such. This leads to conflict sometimes even to PVP. If everyone was a good guy I think I would be bored to tears and move along. I love the way many characters are fleshed out and really given some detail. One thing I can say is consistency takes time and trial and error. I err more often than I care to admit but I have fun doing it!




Miv
I would rather have an intelligent enemy than a stupid friend.

>>I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I have nothing against Vinjince- always seemed a stand up guy in game- but this game has consent rules which I am quite comfortable with.

My point was - policy does and can cut into RP. Someone that can be RP'ing 100% with no kind of griefing whatsoever can get locked out of the game because of people's insecurities. Whereas, they'd do just fine if people bothered to OOC whisper if they think it was going too far. This is only dealing with those who are RP'ing 100%. An OOC whisper can easily distinguish between that kind and those who are just out to ruin the game for others.

Might not be... 'bad', but given the nature of the game it's kind of sad IMO.

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Vinjince Rexem'lor

Counter-reports engage!




_____________________
>>I'm constantly amazed by the things that people do in game that would get them punched in the face in RL, but then they try to claim that they didn't do anything that would warrent a PvP situation.<<
-Evran

On paper, I agree 100%.. in the field? not sure the GMs want that burden


_____________________
>>I'm constantly amazed by the things that people do in game that would get them punched in the face in RL, but then they try to claim that they didn't do anything that would warrent a PvP situation.<<
-Evran