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Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 11:06 AM CDT
The Wizard's Guild has released new information about the previous Ice Patch spell, allowing wizards greater mastery over freezing their opponents. Henceforth, Cold Snap has replaced the previous spell, allowing a wizard to freeze multiple targets in the room simultaneously.

When cast the spell will subject non-grouped targets to a warding. Targets that fail to ward become rooted. The root status effect causes a target to have -50 AS to melee attacks, -25 AS to ranged attacks, and -25 DS (but does not stack with the -DS penalties from other status conditions such as being knocked down). Most importantly, rooted creatures also can't perform maneuvers. The spell will affect up to 4 targets, increasing by +1 per seed 5 summation of Elemental Lore, Water ranks. The duration of the root will be ((warding margin / 5) + 3), capped at 25 seconds.

Casting the spell a second time will completely encase any already affected target that fails to ward in an ice block, immobilizing them and refreshing the duration.

Training in Elemental Lore, Water makes it possible to cast Minor Water (903) at the target, which will be converted to Minor Cold (1709), for a number of casts equivalent to the bonus level of a seed 10 summation of ranks, while still costing 3 mana. This is the same benefit that previously existed under a targeted Ice Patch.

If a target is encased in ice (512x2) and the caster CHANNELs a bolt that causes a rank 5+ impact (505, 510, 1709) critical, there is an (Elemental Lore, Water skill / 3) chance that the target location will shatter, completely destroying it and causing 50% of the target's max health in concussion damage.

If an affected target receives any fire damage (i.e. from 906, 908, 111, etc), the effect ends (since it's melting the ice) and the target receives a steam critical, similar to how trolls react to fire.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 11:09 AM CDT


Is the Water Walking effect still applicable?
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 11:18 AM CDT
Time to go get a bandit bounty and see if hidden creatures are targeted.

And of course, being the evil wizard portrayer I am, if after encasing them, if an escort can simply be walked past them. . .

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:08 PM CDT
If a target is encased in ice (512x2) and the caster CHANNELs a bolt that causes a rank 5+ impact (505, 510, 1709) critical, there is an (Elemental Lore, Water skill / 3) chance that the target location will shatter, completely destroying it and causing 50% of the target's max health in concussion damage.


This is neat, but it should happen on the first cast, not the second. 24 mana to set this up is too much, and wastes too much time. For 33 mana and 9s of cRT I can kill any creature on my Sorcerer. I'm also not forced to channel a follow up spell in offensive stance.

I'm also wondering when you expect people to use this spell over 410. If the target is being encased in ice, wouldn't they be cold? Wouldn't they shiver? You could have at least added RT to the creature based upon warding failure. I don't currently see any reason to use this spell over 410. It's 100% better to put something into RT than to "root" them where they can still attack, and worse, cast spells.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:18 PM CDT
>If a target is encased in ice (512x2) and the caster CHANNELs a bolt that causes a rank 5+ impact (505, 510, 1709) critical, there is an (Elemental Lore, Water skill / 3) chance that the target location will shatter, completely destroying it and causing 50% of the target's max health in concussion damage.

Thanks for the update to the previously useless spell, but this is the weakest mass CS disabler of any of the pures. The entire point of a mass disabler is to immobilize a group of creatures so that they cannot maneuver OR cast, the second being far more important for many areas, and this is something all of the other CS based disablers can achieve.

I also agree 24 mana and 6 seconds of setup is too much, especially considering wizards have no CS booster that affects this such as 340. By the time you're in offensive and CHANNELing for 3 seconds of hard RT, at least 9 seconds of the maximum 25 will be gone. And for most creatures that one is trying to immobilize in the first place, the warding margin won't be sufficient enough to guarantee much more than that amount of time.

Secondly, does the above quote mean that 505 now falls under the impact table instead of unbalance, or is that just an exception for use with this spell?
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:20 PM CDT
>If a target is encased in ice (512x2) and the caster CHANNELs a bolt that causes a rank 5+ impact (505, 510, 1709) critical, there is an (Elemental Lore, Water skill / 3) chance that the target location will shatter, completely destroying it and causing 50% of the target's max health in concussion damage.

Ironically, if one is optimized in the Major Elemental circle to be able to use this spell, one is likely to be heavily trained in fire lore as well to get some use out of the crippled 519. Which leaves no room for water lore, so this benefit is completely moot. The spread of lores all over the place for a single spell results in mediocrity of every spell and across the board.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:24 PM CDT
>If a target is encased in ice (512x2) and the caster CHANNELs a bolt that causes a rank 5+ impact (505, 510, 1709) critical, there is an (Elemental Lore, Water skill / 3) chance that the target location will shatter, completely destroying it and causing 50% of the target's max health in concussion damage.

Also, it seems strange that the follow up requires the use of a single-target spell when the entire point of using a mass disabler is because there are crowd issues.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:36 PM CDT
This worked out not at all in bandits, by the way. It prevented them from doing exactly nothing besides going back into hiding. This was all over the span of about 10 seconds for 2 casts during which point both old and new bandits kept swinging away.

[Teras Isle, Crossroads]
A few ramshackle structures have been thrown up here, most little more than leather tents pitched by fishermen to protect their skiffs and nets during the winter. The Hog's Pen Tavern with its walls of stacked tanik logs is the sturdiest structure in sight. At the rear of the tavern, there is a pile of refuse and a trough that overflows with left-over meals and rain water. The sounds of a bustling town echo down the best-kept of the various roads and paths that meet here. You also see a dwarven thug.
Also here: X, XX
Obvious paths: northeast, east, west
Your blue and white penguin followed.
J>A half-krolvin brigand leaps out of his hiding place!
A half-krolvin brigand swings a broadsword at X!
AS: +445 vs DS: +452 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +92 = +114
... and hits for 3 points of damage!
Tap to the arm pricks some interest but not much else.
J>A giantman outlaw leaps out of his hiding place!
A giantman outlaw swings a handaxe at XX!
AS: +444 vs DS: +277 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +40 = +230
... and hits for 15 points of damage!
Bones in left arm crack.
J>pre 512
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Cold Snap...
Your spell is ready.
J>cas
You gesture.
An airy mist rolls into the area, carrying a harsh chill with it.
CS: +539 - TD: +429 + CvA: -1 + d100: +52 == +161
Warding failed!
The mist leaves a half-krolvin brigand's lower half encased in a thick block of ice.
CS: +539 - TD: +424 + CvA: -10 + d100: +69 == +174
Warding failed!
The mist leaves a giantman outlaw's lower half encased in a thick block of ice.
CS: +539 - TD: +444 + CvA: -10 + d100: +53 == +138
Warding failed!
The mist leaves a dwarven thug's lower half encased in a thick block of ice.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
J>A giantman highwayman leaps out of his hiding place!
A giantman highwayman swings a mace at XX!
AS: +435 vs DS: +271 with AvD: +18 + d100 roll: +89 = +271
... and hits for 15 points of damage!
Neck vertebrae snap.
He is stunned!
J>A dwarven thug removes a plain wooden arrow from in his quiver.
A dwarven thug fires a plain wooden arrow at X!
AS: +417 vs DS: +505 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +80 = +26
A clean miss.
The wooden arrow breaks apart and crumbles away.
J>A human rogue leaps out of her hiding place!
[Roll result: 74 (open d100: 72)]
A human rogue feints low, but XX isn't fooled for a second.
J>pre 512
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Cold Snap...
Your spell is ready.
J>cas
You gesture.
An airy mist rolls into the area, carrying a harsh chill with it.
CS: +539 - TD: +429 + CvA: -10 + d100: +30 == +130
Warding failed!
The mist leaves a human rogue's lower half encased in a thick block of ice.
CS: +539 - TD: +444 + CvA: 0 + d100: +37 == +132
Warding failed!
The mist leaves a giantman highwayman's lower half encased in a thick block of ice.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
J>A giantman highwayman swings a mace at XX!
Unable to focus clearly, XX blindly evades the attack!
J>A half-krolvin brigand swings a broadsword at X!
AS: +395 vs DS: +662 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +83 = -155
A clean miss.
J>A giantman outlaw swings a handaxe at XX!
AS: +394 vs DS: +532 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +80 = -35
A clean miss.
J>A dwarven thug removes a plain wooden arrow from in his quiver.
A dwarven thug fires a plain wooden arrow at X!
AS: +417 vs DS: +515 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +68 = +4
A clean miss.
The wooden arrow breaks apart and crumbles away.
J>A human rogue swings a bastard sword at XX!
XX skillfully blocks the attack with his shield!
J>A giantman highwayman swings a mace at XX!
Amazingly, XX manages to block the attack with his shield!
J>A dwarven thug pulls out a small statue and rubs it!
A faint silvery glow surrounds a dwarven thug.
J>The block of ice encasing a dwarven thug's lower half melts away.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:42 PM CDT
> Also, it seems strange that the follow up requires the use of a single-target spell when the entire point of using a mass disabler is because there are crowd issues.

It seems to me that there might be a spell that does something that works with this problem...

~ Konacon
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:48 PM CDT
>It seems to me that there might be a spell that does something that works with this problem...

515 does not work when you have to CHANNEL a single-target bolt for 3 seconds of hard RT.

Regardless, the rootedness lasted barely over 10 seconds in total and did absolutely nothing. The above poster was correct that 410 is by far the superior solution to this as even though it's not guaranteed, it's guaranteed to do something that actually immobilizes a group by putting them in RT. If your point was to provide a mass CS disabler that does nothing, you succeeded. For what was requested, an effective CS-based mass disabler to compensate for all the luck rolls, this is not it.

I don't actually see how this is any less useless than Ice Patch after seeing it in practice.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:49 PM CDT
> 515 does not work when you have to CHANNEL a single-target bolt for 3 seconds of hard RT.

I wasn't talking about 515.

~ Konacon
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 12:54 PM CDT
>I wasn't talking about 515.

The announcement wording seemed to indicate that 518 wouldn't apply here, but it's good if that's not the case. It's still ineffective and useless, however, given the 9 seconds necessary to achieve this effect during which the creatures are still attacking and casting, if it hasn't worn off completely already. Compare that to the instant immobilization (complete maneuver, attack, and casting) of any other mass CS-based disabler that starts at the first second of the cast, and you'll see why this completely misses the point.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 02:43 PM CDT
Ugh.

it appears, based on a quick scan of the log, like there may be two or three defects in the spell.

1) -50 AS? Doesn't seem to be in play - but might be the fact that I only quickly scanned, rather than calculating.

2) The spell seems to target first 'unrooted' creatures. I see no attempt to 'fully encase' those bandits already 'rooted'.

3) The 'mist rolling into the area' doesn't seem to be able to target hidden NPCs (ugh!).

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 02:54 PM CDT
It's a nice addition and another incentive for water mages. Thanks Konacon. Although I have to say I hate you because it's making the decision not to hunt with my wizard harder and harder.

Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Brinret says, "Bring it on."
A bolt of lightning streaks down from the sky and strikes Brinret!
... 16428101 points of damage!
Powerful blast reduces Brinret to a smoldering pile of ash!
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 03:13 PM CDT
Doug
The spell seems to target first 'unrooted' creatures. I see no attempt to 'fully encase' those bandits already 'rooted'.


This was a tough situation as in some cases you might want to first recast the spell to try to root anything missed the first time. Other times you might want to recast just to completely freeze (immobilize) any already affected targets. So, to give you some control over it, if you open cast (don't specify a target), the spell will first try to find any targets that aren't already affected and will root them. However, if you cast the spell at a target that is already affected by the spell, it will then try to find other targets that are also already affected and fully freeze them as well.

Doug
The 'mist rolling into the area' doesn't seem to be able to target hidden NPCs (ugh!).


It was affecting hidden and invisible targets, it just wasn't revealing them, which was a bug. It should now reveal them if they fail to ward the spell.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 03:24 PM CDT
> It's a nice addition and another incentive for water mages. Thanks Konacon.

Not me! Estild did this!

~ Konacon
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 03:32 PM CDT
>It was affecting hidden and invisible targets, it just wasn't revealing them, which was a bug. It should now reveal them if they fail to ward the spell.

It still doesn't.

Also, it's essentially useless. It doesn't stop them from attacking or casting and you know what's better than -50 AS... -50 DS, which a knockdown achieves via 410. Only neither are useful or reliable still in an uphunting scenario, which is precisely what a CS-based mass disabler was supposed to address.

[Teras Isle, Volcanic Slope]
Rough rock claws like an angry beast and the slope quickly steepens. The island stands out below you like a map upon a table: the dark green jumble of the Greymist, the lighter tones of the grasslands, and the deep blue of the surrounding sea. You also see a hardened lava bed.
Also here: X, XX
Obvious paths: down
Your blue and white penguin followed.
A human outlaw suddenly leaps from his hiding place!
A half-elven brigand suddenly leaps from his hiding place!
A halfling outlaw suddenly leaps from his hiding place!
J>XX's group just entered a hardened lava bed.
[Teras Isle, Hardened Lava Bed]
A small canyon runs down the mountain side. Hardened lava fills it almost completely, providing a natural road that is welcome after the harsh rock below. The air is thick with the smell of sulfur and yellow clouds rise fitfully from somewhere above. This is one bed that nobody is likely to be sleeping in.
Also here: X, XX
Obvious paths: out
Your blue and white penguin followed.
J>XX's group just went out.
[Teras Isle, Volcanic Slope]
Rough rock claws like an angry beast and the slope quickly steepens. The island stands out below you like a map upon a table: the dark green jumble of the Greymist, the lighter tones of the grasslands, and the deep blue of the surrounding sea. You also see a halfling outlaw, a half-elven brigand, a human outlaw and a hardened lava bed.
Also here: X, XX
Obvious paths: down
Your blue and white penguin followed.
J>You feel at full magical power again.
J>A half-elven brigand swings a broadsword at XX!
AS: +428 vs DS: +480 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +98 = +75
A clean miss.
J>[Roll result: 170 (open d100: 69)]
A human outlaw reaches out and grabs at the end of XX's nose!
XX howls in pain as a human outlaw tweaks her nose!
J>inc 512
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Cold Snap...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a halfling outlaw.
An airy mist rolls into the area, carrying a harsh chill with it.
CS: +539 - TD: +444 + CvA: -10 + d100: +7 == +92
Warded off!
The mist leaves a thin layer of ice on a halfling outlaw's lower half, but he easily shakes it off.
CS: +539 - TD: +399 + CvA: -10 + d100: +89 == +219
Warding failed!
The mist leaves a half-elven brigand's lower half encased in a thick block of ice.
CS: +539 - TD: +424 + CvA: -2 + d100: +83 == +196
Warding failed!
The mist leaves a human outlaw's lower half encased in a thick block of ice.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
J>X looks determined and focused.
In a breathtaking display of ability and combat mastery, X whirls in a fury of unrelenting strikes and ripostes!
X swings a monir-hafted eahnor fang at a halfling outlaw!
AS: +493 vs DS: +358 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +78 = +250
... and hits for 40 points of damage!
Mighty blow cracks several ribs.
X swings a monir-hafted eahnor fang at a half-elven brigand!
AS: +493 vs DS: +293 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +31 = +268
... and hits for 42 points of damage!
Large gash to the left arm, several muscles torn.
The half-elven brigand is stunned!
X swings a monir-hafted eahnor fang at a human outlaw!
AS: +493 vs DS: +320 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +84 = +286
... and hits for 66 points of damage!
Solid blow gouges a chunk out of the human outlaw's left leg.
The human outlaw is stunned!
J>A halfling outlaw slips into hiding.
J>inc 512
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Cold Snap...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a human outlaw.
An airy mist rolls into the area, carrying a harsh chill with it.
CS: +539 - TD: +399 + CvA: -10 + d100: +64 == +194
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover a half-elven brigand's entire body, trapping him in an icy tomb.
CS: +539 - TD: +424 + CvA: -2 + d100: +49 == +162
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover a human outlaw's entire body, trapping him in an icy tomb.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

J>A halfling outlaw leaps out of his hiding place!
[Roll result: 110 (open d100: 33)]
A halfling outlaw kicks his leg at XX's groin and connects! For just a moment, XX's face goes entirely motionless.
...9 damage!
J>A human outlaw struggles against the forces that bind him.
J>X swings a monir-hafted eahnor fang at a halfling outlaw!
AS: +493 vs DS: +358 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +48 = +220
... and hits for 34 points of damage!
Mighty blow cracks several ribs.
J>The block of ice encasing a human outlaw melts away.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:03 PM CDT
Excellent, Estild - appreciate the clarification, and the fix!

I'm not terribly concerned (yet) about the costs associated with immobilize (24) especially when compared to Bind, at 14 - which only affects a single target.

Sadly, I'll likely continue to prefer Call Wind for bandits, but. . . I have options!

What I really, really need is a way to keep them pesky destroyers from maneuvering.

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:13 PM CDT
>>It still doesn't.

As you continue to gather live field intelligence, and if the situation should present again - can you do a quick 'search' to see if you can find the hidden NPC and if it was affected? Curiosity, mostly - I'd rather the 'hiding' be broken. But it might help troubleshoot the problem.

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:16 PM CDT
>I'm not terribly concerned (yet) about the costs associated with immobilize (24) especially when compared to Bind, at 14 - which only affects a single target.

I don't consider this an option. Also, 316 is only 16 mana for a much more powerful effect. This doesn't even do the job of 410. It's not even so much the cost though as the 6 seconds of CT just to set up for the kill, during which time the creatures are actually not disabled in any way except maneuvers.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:19 PM CDT
I'd say this is a clearly beneficial adjustment, and filling a great niche for a CS disabler.

Thank you for the birthday gift Estild!

~Whirlin
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:23 PM CDT

Hoo boy, here comes ELR part deux, "The Underwhelming."
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:33 PM CDT
>>I don't consider this an option.

I hear ya.

>>Also, 316 is only 16 mana for a much more powerful effect.

It's also comparing a profession to non profession based list. I know many don't agree with me on this point, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. I do note, however, the interesting dual nature of the Censure spell. It's a valid point that I'm now just a bit envious. . .

>>This doesn't even do the job of 410.

Against bandits, perhaps not. I see other uses, though. Not enough to simply say 'it works!' or 'it doesn't work!', since I haven't tested. But I do see possibilities. Let's run the gamut of other creature types first. For example, I'll tell you using 410 against crawlers is not a winning overall strategy, nor frankly is call wind. However, I was quite happy with the old Ice Patch against crawlers, because of the 'rooting'. Just one example.

>>It's not even so much the cost though as the 6 seconds of CT just to set up for the kill, during which time the creatures are actually not disabled in any way except maneuvers.

I've seen this a couple times - a quick note of correction seems to be in order. It's 3 seconds of CT during which the NPC is disabled from maneuvers and at significant minuses for AS, Bolt and DS. CS remains unaffected. At the start of the subsequent 3 seconds of CT (the second cast) those that fail are immobilized. So no - in fact they don't stay totally active, nor do they stay totally active 6 seconds.

I put 'setting up for the kill' in a different bucket, though - so not trying to address that side of the dissatisfaction.

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:34 PM CDT
I just fixed another issue where the spell wasn't correctly picking up additional targets when mixing non-rooted and rooted targets. e.g. you would cast the spell and it could affect up to 4 targets. If there were 7 creatures in the room and your first cast caught 4 of them, the second cast would then only root the remaining 3, but should have also immobilized one of the first four (since it can affect up to 4 targets per cast).

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:36 PM CDT
>can you do a quick 'search' to see if you can find the hidden NPC and if it was affected?

Didn't work. Also, having fire based spells "melt" the ice is exceptionally group unfriendly given the other pures generally use 111 as a group spell.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:42 PM CDT
I can certainly remove the ice > fire > steam interaction, if there is a consensus. It's there for flavor and extra damage, not as any attempt to weaken the spell.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:42 PM CDT
>>Didn't work. Also, having fire based spells "melt" the ice is exceptionally group unfriendly given the other pures generally use 111 as a group spell.

Looks like Estild might have just got to that.

And I was giving some thought to exactly the problem with fire as you expressed.

As a suggestion for future improvement (along the lines of the continued 'choose your element' improvement suggestions), perhaps we could be granted a way to have

Stone (rock gathers, rock immobilizes, boulder shatters)

Air (cone encases, cone immobilizes, Tonis bolt smears)

Fire (lava encases, lava immobilizes, Boil Earth / Immolate / Minor / Major Fire roasts)

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:43 PM CDT
>>It's there for flavor and extra damage, not as any attempt to weaken the spell.

That might work, too - or, how about bringing in the Censure method of moving through thresholds.

Encased plus fire = free but with extra damage

Immobilized plus fire = encased but with extra damage.

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:47 PM CDT
>I can certainly remove the ice > fire > steam interaction, if there is a consensus. It's there for flavor and extra damage, not as any attempt to weaken the spell.

I would rather the double 512 fully encase and immobilize the creatures, since I don't know how something can still attack, cast, or buff itself up via other means if the entire body is supposed to be encased in ice. This still doesn't address the issue of the duration being too short after taking 6 seconds to set up, but it would be a start.

By the way, bandits are the weakest capped creatures, so if I can barely survive a hunt with 512 as a mass disabler, I'm certainly not going to be the one to go testing 512 with any other post-cap creatures.

People use mass disablers to disable, not for flavor or extra damage, unless it does both disable and damage. I would actually rather it be moved to 535 and be similar to 135 in effectiveness and lethality since 535 is completely useless now and can go to 512 instead.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 04:52 PM CDT
>I put 'setting up for the kill' in a different bucket, though - so not trying to address that side of the dissatisfaction.

I don't see "setting up for the kill" as serving any purpose though if it's not completely effective. By setting up it means it must fully immobilize the creatures (spell, maneuvers) on a guaranteed basis, otherwise there is no reason for me to not just gamble anyway and go ahead for the kill. There is no niche scenario where I would use a disabler that is 99% likely to do nothing effective anyway, especially for your crawler scenario. Pretty much in any situation that is actually dangerous, the minimal disabling effects would be unlikely to take hold or would wear off before any offensive action could be taken against the crowd.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:00 PM CDT
>I would rather the double 512 fully encase and immobilize the creatures, since I don't know how something can still attack, cast, or buff itself up via other means if the entire body is supposed to be encased in ice.

I had figured this would be the case until I had a seer cast at me and stun me even though I had him completely frozen in ice...
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:06 PM CDT


>>I had figured this would be the case until I had a seer cast at me and stun me even though I had him completely frozen in ice...

Yeah, if that's happening, I'll bet that should be a defect. Might still be a few of those lingering. Immobilized shouldn't lead to anything other than some vocalizations and the like.

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:09 PM CDT
>> By setting up it means it must fully immobilize the creatures (spell, maneuvers) on a guaranteed basis,

Thanks for clarifying. To me, that's 'fully disabling the creature', not 'setting up for the kill'. I can provide examples, but it's really just a minor clarification point - I see your perspective even if I still am of the opinion that nothing should be 'absolute'.

Doug
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:15 PM CDT
>This was a tough situation as in some cases you might want to first recast the spell to try to root anything missed the first time. Other times you might want to recast just to completely freeze (immobilize) any already affected targets. So, to give you some control over it, if you open cast (don't specify a target), the spell will first try to find any targets that aren't already affected and will root them. However, if you cast the spell at a target that is already affected by the spell, it will then try to find other targets that are also already affected and fully freeze them as well

I'm assuming EVOKE currently has no use with this spell, so why not make it so open cast goes after unrooted targets first, and EVOKE targets rooted stuff first?

I think having to cast it twice to encase something is a bit much though, at least when dealing with single targets. I think a better approach would be to only require one cast for single target, and for multiple targets either let the required casts be reduced to 1 either via training, or give any endroll over 150 the 2x cast effect. It's not so much about mana (well I mean it is, but yeah) as it is about time. As already stated, ewave is still better in multi-target situations, as it drops their DS (I don't know how the numbers work out for +50 to endroll vs. rank 5 crit + water lore to shatter a body part, but I'd imagine they'd be similar) and puts them in RT preventing all actions for 10 mana vs 24 for 512. It's cheaper, safer, and gives you a nice addition to your endroll.

I'm not a fan of water lore being required for the shatter part since a boulder smashing into a block of ice shouldn't matter. Maybe instead, let the shatter effect do more concussion damage when Minor Cold is used and/or require a lower crit threshold, as water lore is required to cast that spell, and leave 505/510 shatters as is but without the lore requirement.

I like the concept and synergy the spell brings, but the costs and time investment are too high compared to what we already have with no lore requirement, and for roughly half the mana cost and setup time.

One thing that will always keep this spell inferior though is its complete and total uselessness against non-crittable targets, even if you just wanted to use it for the concussion damage, as 512 does literally nothing vs non-crittable targets (ewave usually doesn't work vs these targets either, but call wind does on a lot of them), and there are tons of non-crittables at cap. I wouldn't mind seeing the spell still work on those critters for the concussion damage, even if that's all you get from it. Cold mages are already useless vs most undead, and this spell has no use at all vs anything that doesn't crit, undead or otherwise. I always thought having stuff that doesn't crit in this game was stupid anyway, but that's a whole different subject for another folder that would be pointless to bring up anyway.

I know that applies to a lot of spells for any class, but the difference is this spell requires a dedicated water lore training path with some seed 10 thrown into the mix to take full advantage of, and water currently has the least overall combat effectiveness compared to the other elements, leaving little to no incentive to give up fire or air lore in favor of this while only being able to 2x lores.

I'm sure more stuff is coming though so I'm aware that that could all change, but this spell has no use at all vs anything non-crittable and that will always be a detriment to this spell that doesn't apply to most other spells.

I think a few tweaks could bring this spell from "I guess it's better than Ice Patch" to "This spell is omg omg omg omg!"

~ Methais
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:29 PM CDT
>Stone (rock gathers, rock immobilizes, boulder shatters)

>Air (cone encases, cone immobilizes, Tonis bolt smears)

>Fire (lava encases, lava immobilizes, Boil Earth / Immolate / Minor / Major Fire roasts)

That's another thing I was hoping would become a thing. Instead of a spell being tied to one element, let the spell's chosen element be tied to your training. Similar to 415/518, where you can either cast a random element or your attuned element. Except tie it to lore training instead of attunement, because attunement is stupid and stuff and can't be changed.

~ Methais
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:40 PM CDT
PCOFFEY77
I had figured this would be the case until I had a seer cast at me and stun me even though I had him completely frozen in ice...


If this is happening, please post a complete log the situation.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:46 PM CDT
>If this is happening, please post a complete log the situation

An ithzir seer just arrived.

An ithzir seer says, "I think the cooldown for Rapid Fire should be removed."


~ Methais
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:50 PM CDT
I do have to say, this is kind of fun...

You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Cold Snap...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an Ithzir scout.
An airy mist rolls into the area, carrying a harsh chill with it.
CS: +504 - TD: +457 + CvA: +25 + d100: +32 == +104
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover a war griffin's entire body, trapping it in an icy tomb.
CS: +504 - TD: +440 + CvA: +19 + d100: +75 == +158
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover an Ithzir adept's entire body, trapping him in an icy tomb.
CS: +504 - TD: +444 + CvA: +19 + d100: +53 == +132
--- Lich: exec1 has exited.
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover an Ithzir seer's entire body, trapping him in an icy tomb.
CS: +504 - TD: +365 + CvA: +9 + d100: +92 == +240
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover an Ithzir scout's entire body, trapping her in an icy tomb.
CS: +504 - TD: +450 + CvA: +19 + d100: +38 == +111
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover an Ithzir seer's entire body, trapping him in an icy tomb.
CS: +504 - TD: +377 + CvA: -2 + d100: +62 == +187
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover an Ithzir janissary's entire body, trapping him in an icy tomb.
CS: +504 - TD: +453 + CvA: +19 + d100: +52 == +122
Warding failed!
The mist builds upon the existing thick block of ice, expanding it to cover an Ithzir adept's entire body, trapping him in an icy tomb.
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 05:51 PM CDT
>If this is happening, please post a complete log the situation.

I went and tried it out again and everything seemed to be working correctly...

An Ithzir seer struggles to move. Finding her actions fruitless, she looses an eerily echoing shout! "Itona ti! Te lanak mtor!"

Maybe I just missed where it melted off?
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Re: Cold Snap (512) Released! 04/13/2016 06:14 PM CDT
One other note I forgot to mention. If a target is drenched from the Minor Water (903 or 518) lore effect or if you cast the spell in a watery room, the affected target(s) get -25 TD.

GameMaster Estild
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