I'm having trouble learning TM in the field here are my stats

Shield Usage: 15 53% perplexed Light Chain: 17 58% bewildered
Parry Ability: 23 61% bewildering Multi Opponent: 23 10% bewildering
Light Edged: 8 22% learning Medium Edged: 22 23% bewildering
Heavy Edged: 22 86% perplexed Twohanded Edged: 22 90% bewildering
Heavy Thrown: 14 94% bewildering Brawling: 5 45% learning
Primary Magic: 32 76% very muddled Harness Ability: 32 20% muddled
Power Perceive: 35 18% muddled Magical Devices: 35 33% very muddled
Targeted Magic: 31 72% pondering Evasion: 17 17% mind lock

I'm hunting Unarmed gobs in the Best mana room there

Dasfyon

You gesture at a sand sprite.
Its head soars through the air as its neck is entirely destroyed!
A sand sprite slowly falls to the ground, moaning in despair, shuddering in pain before taking her last breath.

As far as targetted Fist of Stone, Fire Shard Fire ball and Gar Zeng. I normally use FS GZ or FOS at 5 mana as this is most efficent with my power perception. I wait for a full target.


Strangeguard Prayermaster

You gesture at a sand sprite.
Its head soars through the air as its neck is entirely destroyed!
A sand sprite slowly falls to the ground, moaning in despair, shuddering in pain before taking her last breath.

Would this be the same for armed goblins? I went there last night and aside from getting knocked around from swarms I still wasn't able to do anything


Strangeguard Prayermaster

You gesture at a sand sprite.
Its head soars through the air as its neck is entirely destroyed!
A sand sprite slowly falls to the ground, moaning in despair, shuddering in pain before taking her last breath.

I don't recommend armed goblins. They use shields and that causes issues with TM training.

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I am hoping to glean some advice from those of you here. I just hit 115 in TM and have been unable to get the skill to move (the last 10 were rather excruciating in firecats). I can get it to pondering against fire sprites and firecats still, but will tap out of mana using ALA. Young ogres are too tough beyond one on one, and don't seem to teach TM anyhow. am I not casting the proper sequence of spells? should I try an unarmored creature?

Parry Ability: 105 27% learning
Medium Edged: 101 57% thoughtful
Evasion: 88 87% pondering
Light Chain: 97 92% pondering
Primary Magic: 144 79% pondering
Targeted Magic: 118 21% learning

I have ALA, AEL, GZ, FS, FB, and FOS as far as targetted spells are concerned.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as I can't seem to solve this problem on my own.

Silver leucros would probably be okay, depending on your MO skill.

You might also want to consider spending some more time training your Evasion higher before moving on for TM. And it might not hurt to learn Shield. ;)

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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I recently transitioned up to Haven. Is there anything on that side of the river that will teach TM decently in my range?

TM 66
PM/Harness 82
ME 55
HE 47
Parry 56
Evasion 50
LC 49
Shield 29
MO 47

I can fight 2-3 duskies at a time with SW and SUF up, but my TM doesn't move because of their shields/armor.

I know I need to train up shield, I'm planning on doing that when I hit 20th and get YS so I can get other armor learning in at the same time, and hit up other weapons as well.

I think beisswurms might work (would I be able to survive there with my defenses?), but I'd prefer to stay on the north side of the river if there's anything.

Hedgewizard Hilbert
-Puce WM of Elanthia

You know, he's actually in a good spot for Tommyknockers in P5. Might get knocked around a bit, but they'll get everything up to 70s ish.

-Durnil

>I can fight 2-3 duskies at a time with SW and SUF up, but my TM doesn't move because of their shields/armor.

No tingle? Useful spell, in my opine.

But as someone else suggested, get whatever up to 60-70, then go to sprites, they'll carry you for a while.

>I know I need to train up shield,

Purely choice. The selection of critters requiring a shield is very small. Yes, I said requiring. Parry will do for most things. So if you don't feel like training it, don't force yourself. Much better off training what you want than what someone else wants.

Heh, ya beat me too it Mazrian, I would second this advice. Train Shield, it is worth every beating. Yes, you can spend your whole career avoiding certain critters but the first invasion with goblin archers or the like and you will regret it.

Something else to say, training shield has the nice effect of training your armors as well, especially if you train multiple armor types (Chain, plate, leather, etc) at the same time.

Rehlyn

You gesture at a gargantuan korograth.
A sheet of slippery rich amber ale-hued ice forms beneath a gargantuan korograth!
The gargantuan korograth refuses to fall.

>>training shield has the nice effect of training your armors as well, especially if you train multiple armor types (Chain, plate, leather, etc) at the same time.

That's the main reason that I want to wait until 20th to backtrain shield. Currently I've got 40 in LC, and 8 in leather and 2 in HP. I want to get a HC helm and train up plate a bit with gauntlets/greaves. I imagine that the multi-armor setup will be much less painful with YS and a bit more strength, especially if I stop parrying and train up shield at the same time. Am I correct?

Hilbert

Alright, I would like to address the armor ideas, because I feel like I'm in a really good place with my armor set up.

First of all, I started out in leathers too. Drop them. You're evasion tertiary - just drop the leathers.

Second, the idea of waiting to train more armor after you get YS is a pretty good one, but I don't think there's a penalty for mixing LC and HC, so you should at least be doing both of those. I would recommend the 33 stone HC greaves from Dirge, they're great for a beginner. Maybe HC gloves too, so you're learning a good bit of HC.

Now, when YS comes around, I'd like to make an armor recommendation that is absolutely stellar for me. Cost wise, I believe all of this stuff can be acquired fooooooor - 60 plat. Maybe you won't get lucky and find 3 Sever Thread scrolls for me, but the pieces you might be able to come up with in non-forged form to begin with.

HP	Armet Helm	Head/Eyes
LP	Aventail	Neck
LP	Gauntlets	Hands
LC	Chain Shirt	Chest/Back/Abdomen/Arms
HC	Greaves	Legs

And it's netted me, at 35th circle:

LC	115
HC	106
LP	91
HP	90

I love this set up. Low mixing penalties, and you get plate protection on hands and eyes, which is useful for stuns later in the game. Definitely stick with shield, just because it should always be real easy to keep locked, and it's more TDPs. Not to mention - VERY useful. I don't even use parry hardly. Just enough to lock it, then whip the shield out.


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

Thanks Axillus - that's very helpful.

>>but I don't think there's a penalty for mixing LC and HC

I didn't realize there wasn't a penalty for this, which is why I wasn't doing it already.

>>60 plat.

OK, I've got ~5 to my name now, only 55 more to go! I guess that forged weapon is on the back burner...

Right now I've got a LC helm that doesn't touch my eyes, so I'll upgrade to a Visored Chain helm from Haven immediately, and grab some greaves. The equipment compendium I have says that the 33 HC greaves are from Haven (Serpentine Chain Greaves) and Dirge sells 35 stone ones, which aren't as good. I can afford both of those right now, so I'll grab those ASAP. That only adds 18 stone to my set up, but it will up the hindrance some.

Then I've got a Crossing-bought Chain Shirt, mail gloves, and chain greaves (which are going).

Now to the question:

>>Definitely stick with shield, just because it should always be real easy to keep locked

How is it easy to keep shield locked? Do I need to get it up to level first? Right now, I either dodge/parry or they go right through my shield and I get hit all the time. I suppose I should get an arm-worn shield, right? How do those work? Last time I was here they weren't around (and the shield I have is one of the ancient target shields from west-gate gobs).

Olson, I would honestly backtrain shield, maybe even learn another weapon while you're doing it. You've got Zephyr, so LT or HT is an option which you can use shield with. Or you can do a blunt. Or, a blunt and a thrown - that would be pretty good I think.

I'm a big proponent of the backtrain - I've been in grave worms training 4 weapons up to 95 for quite some time now. You've just got to think about the payoff in the end.

My shield is real close to my parry and evasion - I can use shield anywhere.

I've got 111 shield and 120 parry & evasion. My current method of training involves stancing parry to 100, shield to 82. I'll lock parry, then just go shield 100 evasion 82, until parry gets down to around muddled. It makes me feel good knowing I've trained hard and as a result have my two tertiary defenses almost as high as my secondary defense. In fact, since my shield and evasion are both over 105, I have the parry requirement for my circle in my tertiary defenses. In my opinion, it does pay off to get shield up to par so you can always lock it real fast where you're hunting, and because shield is often considered the best defense now.

On the backtraining note, I want to stress how easy gaining your TM can be by having higher PM/harness/PP. PP obviously means you'll see better mana, and synergistically with harness will mean you can cast more spells. PM will insure that you can cast a nice SW and SUF for your level. That's just been my take on things. I make sure my magics keep moving, although TM is sitting stagnant. TM is by far my lowest magic - and I'm fine with that.

I hope this isn't all garbled. You're in a good spot to pick up on some, what I consider to be, good habits. Take the opportunity while backtraining is feasible to do it.



Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

>>Just like I do not 'regret' my choice to train 1 weapon. I manage my defenses, and dance a lot. I do not enjoy it, so do not do it.

Just as a reminder to everyone: Until (and unless) bit-based circling actually comes to pass, a decision like this will actually cap your ability to circle past a certain point.

Warrior Mages still require both a secondary weapon skill set weapon and, eventually, a third weapon skill set weapon to meet circling requirements.

Matter of fact, without ranks in a second weapon, you will never pass 10th circle, third weapon is not required until you reach 70th circle.

And, also remember, the guild does require a certain minimal amount of shield training from the get-go, or you will never even reach second circle.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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>>On the backtraining note, I want to stress how easy gaining your TM can be by having higher PM/harness/PP.

This was something I picked up when I played 3-4 years ago before coming back. PM/Har/PP are my highest skills by far. In a good mana room I can get off a 20 mana SW and a 20 mana SUF (prep 10, har 5, har 5, cast) and still have some left over. I just broke 100 in PP (since playing off and on with various characters since the beta on AOL, this is my first skill to 100, yay!), and it is nice being able to see glowing mana in places.

>>My current method of training involves stancing parry to 100, shield to 82. I'll lock parry, then just go shield 100 evasion 82,

I think part of my problem is that I wasn't utilizing stance effectively. I'll work on changing it around, perhaps going to goblins to stance shield higher to work it faster and work up light thrown.

>>Or, a blunt and a thrown

I do have 30 ranks in MB and 15 or so in LE. I enjoy working weapons and my character views himself more as a "barb who was smart enough to figure out how to use magic" rather than a mage who uses weapons.

I'll throw out another reason to train multiple weapons besides TDPs and the (rare) ZOMG I'm fighting something immune to slice: Rotating weapons is a good excuse to stay in combat.

I'm not a big fan of "lock all my skills and stop". I like to hunt for at least 45 minutes to an hour, keeping my critical defenses locked for extended periods. But if I only worked my primary and secondary weapons, I would lock them up and then have to sleep/CL things until my defenses and weapons pulsed down. Instead I switch to another weapon.

With a current rotation of 5 weapons + brawling and TM, there is rarely a time when I am so locked up that I need to sleep.


-Sephos

Woohoo, post # 2000. Alright, first and foremost - Ucu, my post addressing yours was on the short side. I have no problem with you, but I feel like you kind of put words in my mouth. My suggestions were just that - suggestions. I was letting someone know what works for me. Nowhere did I say "YOU MUST TRAIN FIVE WEAPONS AND SHIELD OR DIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111"

Moving on. Tropicalo - the evasion/leather comment came off kind of weird. What I meant is, don't let your armor play to your evasion, leather is great for those that need to be sneaky. We don't need to be, although I will agree that sneakiness is good.

Sephos' reasoning on being able to stay in combat really hits the nail on the head for me. Soon my weapons will be close to TM. Last time I hunted something that worked my TM, I locked it, locked ME, and then there wasn't much else until they pulsed down some. If I've got 5 weapons to train, I can concentrate on keeping my TM locked over longer periods of hunting time because there's always a weapon I can work when TM is locked.

As to shield being good only for PvP - I must respectfully disagree. I'll post a log tonight, but with a 48 mana SW and a reasonably balanced weapon, I take more damage at 100 parry/82 evasion than I take with an arm-worn croc skin buckler at 100/evasion 82. I must admit though, another reason I consider shield so valuable is that I'm a sucker for poorly balanced weapons - ie my claymore and morning star. Plus I train LT. True, I could wear a parry stick and then parry w/ the mallet when I'm holding it and the stick when I'm not. But shield's much easier.

I feel that parry is probably better in a 1 on 1 creature situation, but when I've got 5 grave worms on me, my shield really does protect better.


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

I've recently returned from a moderately long hiatus, and I recall a TM change just before I left such that TM acts/teaches more like a weapon. However, I don't recall it being this hard to get the skill beyond thoughtful. My TM skill is around 248 and I hunt at level (swamp trolls and fendryads south of Langenfirth). I've tried several spells of varying degrees of power, and short of using FR on a horde of critters, I'm unable to exceed thoughtful when I hunt.

Does anyone have any helpful suggestions for me to work on my hunting techniques? perhaps methods that work for them? Or is it simply nearly impossible to lock TM anymore? Any help will be appreciated.


- Player of Newtrini Pi'Gui

TM training does indeed function like a weapon. 250 TM might be hitting the cap on fens and swamp trolls however. You might consider trying forest gryphons down in shard or Adan'f, both of which move mine at 280+.

I'd recommend not using first tier TM spells anymore, since you've pretty much outgrown them. Aether Lash, Lighting Bolt, Fireball and Stone Strike should all allow you to mind lock targeted magic without too much difficulty. For really good learning I'd recommend using chain lightning, mark of arhat and even ball lighting - it teaches pretty good since the tweak.

Keep in mind that disabling spells will penalize your TM learning. If you frostbite/ice patch a fendryad it won't teach you as much as if it was still standing. General targeting also teaches better than limb targeting. Lastly, don't forget to take advantage of aether pathways. Damage is a good boost at low skill levels, but by now you should be using accuracy for an extra bit of learning.

Good luck to you, and feel free to IM me at Juason1 if you still have question.

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