Previous
>>Basically, the same story. In reviewing all the Pretend Ranger titles, the first one I see that requires ANY ranks in foraging is Warden at 250 ranks. Then Wilder at 375, Keeper at 600.<<
I'll start with these. Yes, foraging was one example. But I was really trying to suggest any swimming, FA, foraging, and skinning. Our 4 skills that we can't use to circle.
River Walker
At least 200 in Scouting
At least 200 in Swimming
Must know Beseech Water to Solidify
Hunter*
At least 250 in Scouting
At least 250 in Skinning
At least 275 in Highest Armor
At least 300 in Highest Weapon
At least 300 in Evasion
Voyager
At least 500 in Scouting
At least 500 in Climbing
At least 500 in Swimming
So, 3 in addition to the 3 you mentioned. And no, I agree with you, it's not a whole lot. But admittedly, Rangers don't have a whole lot of titles either. If they get a release which adds 60 titles akin to barbs and war mages, would that number go up? The real killer on Ranger titles is the 140% Perception exchange, which has a tendancy to grow pretty fast. (Assuming it doesn't taper off).
>>In looking through the reqs for higher level Pretend Bard titles, I only see a handful of them that require ANY skill in any one (or more) Music type. Most only check for total combined ranks in the various music disciplines.<<
How are combined ranks handled? Do they require us to have the combined ranks? If so, that adds a LOT of titles, you'll admit. No, there aren't a ton that require 300 strings (though there are a few), but there's a lot more that require 700 overall ranks. If they require us to have the 700 overall ranks, that's gonna be rough, even with us adding 80% of our hiding in.
>>Hopefully this will help make things more clear for you, but it doesn't look like the situation is as dire as I was being lead to believe.<<
Maybe, the Thief title boards needs to be updated. It would be nice if the site would let us know if fake title exchange tapers off at a certain point. You'll admit it's hard to have an authoratative opinion on things when we're being told something that isn't true from the 'authority.'
-Wighten
BOBBRYAN
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 04:45 PM CDT
<<River Walker >>
Yeah, River Walker requires 200 swimming, but then again, you're trying to fake someone who's able to walk on water. The fact you can even GET that title without being able to use that Beseech is a little generous.
<<Hunter>>
Hunter needs 250 Skinning, yes. That one I can go either way on, but I'm still going to lean toward the "Some titles are going to be harder to get than others" route.
<<Voyager>>
Yup...lots of climbing and swimming, but again, ths one is a high level Ranger title, so its going to require more work to get to and will be more exclusive. The Thief that pulls this one off will have something to be proud of, for sure (or will be a scripter).
<<The real killer on Ranger titles is the 140% Perception exchange, which has a tendancy to grow pretty fast. (Assuming it doesn't taper off).>>
Ok...just out of curiosity I looked to see who had more than 500 ranks in Perception out of the players online at the moment.
Out of the 14 people on that met the requirement, 7 were Thieves. I'm not sure its asking too much to base some of the highest level titles on Perception and expect them to cost 500, 600 or even 800 ranks. All three people with 800 ranks in perception on at the moment? Thieves.
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
Yeah, River Walker requires 200 swimming, but then again, you're trying to fake someone who's able to walk on water. The fact you can even GET that title without being able to use that Beseech is a little generous.
<<Hunter>>
Hunter needs 250 Skinning, yes. That one I can go either way on, but I'm still going to lean toward the "Some titles are going to be harder to get than others" route.
<<Voyager>>
Yup...lots of climbing and swimming, but again, ths one is a high level Ranger title, so its going to require more work to get to and will be more exclusive. The Thief that pulls this one off will have something to be proud of, for sure (or will be a scripter).
<<The real killer on Ranger titles is the 140% Perception exchange, which has a tendancy to grow pretty fast. (Assuming it doesn't taper off).>>
Ok...just out of curiosity I looked to see who had more than 500 ranks in Perception out of the players online at the moment.
Out of the 14 people on that met the requirement, 7 were Thieves. I'm not sure its asking too much to base some of the highest level titles on Perception and expect them to cost 500, 600 or even 800 ranks. All three people with 800 ranks in perception on at the moment? Thieves.
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
VALCER
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 05:33 PM CDT
I'd just like to see three things
GMs stop using stealing as the circle requirement for criminal titles like assassian, its not one of my 8 and i have 2 stealing per circle as the minimum requirement
Just add a circle requirement or use a skill all thieves use like hiding
Another thing would be to allow us titles where we meet the requirement with the real ranks too, if i have 900 ME i should have barb titles that require 900 ME even if i do not have 1200 backstab.
And finally, More criminal titles with backstab or thief only titles .
Logging on to a barbarian with less in each of his top three weapons then mine and less in every stat he still has more barb titles then i have thief only and fake barb ones combined simply cause i dont have a ton of backstab.
GMs stop using stealing as the circle requirement for criminal titles like assassian, its not one of my 8 and i have 2 stealing per circle as the minimum requirement
Just add a circle requirement or use a skill all thieves use like hiding
Another thing would be to allow us titles where we meet the requirement with the real ranks too, if i have 900 ME i should have barb titles that require 900 ME even if i do not have 1200 backstab.
And finally, More criminal titles with backstab or thief only titles .
Logging on to a barbarian with less in each of his top three weapons then mine and less in every stat he still has more barb titles then i have thief only and fake barb ones combined simply cause i dont have a ton of backstab.
ZEYPHAN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 06:30 PM CDT
About the Bard music thing. My main complaint is that our fake musical theory ranks are not counted into our overall instrument ranks for titles. Example: I have well over 200 ranks of fake musical theory so I can wear the Aes-Danai title which only requires 200 musival theory. However, I cannot wear the Taleweaver title because it reuires 200 musical theory and 700 total instrument ranks. A Bard would need 200 musical theory plus a minimum of 500 in their other four instruments. As a Thief I need 250 ranks hiding plus all 700 ranks of actual instrument skill. So I would only need 50 more ranks of a skill in my primary skillset but 200 more ranks divided among 4 skills in my secondary skillset to get this title. Just seems a bit extreme and I can't understand why this is so heavily penalized. I just think our fake skill needs skill needs to be counted for the overall instrument skill requirement for titles.
~Minstrel Ascot, Song Weaver of M'riss
~Minstrel Ascot, Song Weaver of M'riss
DAE83
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 06:33 PM CDT
<<GMs stop using stealing as the circle requirement for criminal titles like assassian, its not one of my 8 and i have 2 stealing per circle as the minimum requirement>>
I agree with valcer sorta. Assassian should be open to anyone who can backstab or snipe :) Why because a Ranger can Assassinate probably do it better in the wild then any thief can though sniping. Just a thought, now back to you shady people titles.
The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
I agree with valcer sorta. Assassian should be open to anyone who can backstab or snipe :) Why because a Ranger can Assassinate probably do it better in the wild then any thief can though sniping. Just a thought, now back to you shady people titles.
The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>
MCNITTD1
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 06:40 PM CDT
Wait, so 125% of backstab is needed for weapon titles, but we need actual music ranks for bard titles. We train weapons naturally but not music lores; generally speaking of course. I don't get it.
I understand the school of thought that we should be able to sort of walk the walk for the guild we are impersonating, but that breaks down utterly with magic guilds anyway, so why the need for music ranks?
I love the new title system, but my thief did use to impersonate a bard and won't be going forward under the current reqs for their titles.
~ Tender Infiltrator Purehand Woundedlife, Co-Pay Enforcer of Elanthia.
I understand the school of thought that we should be able to sort of walk the walk for the guild we are impersonating, but that breaks down utterly with magic guilds anyway, so why the need for music ranks?
I love the new title system, but my thief did use to impersonate a bard and won't be going forward under the current reqs for their titles.
~ Tender Infiltrator Purehand Woundedlife, Co-Pay Enforcer of Elanthia.
YAMCER
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 09:51 PM CDT
<<its not one of my 8 and i have 2 stealing per circle as the minimum requirement>>
<<Just add a circle requirement or use a skill all thieves use like hiding>>
umm Valcer you just stated yourself that stealing is used by all thieves to circle.. you have to do it yourself.
it's a hard guild req for a reason
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
<<Just add a circle requirement or use a skill all thieves use like hiding>>
umm Valcer you just stated yourself that stealing is used by all thieves to circle.. you have to do it yourself.
it's a hard guild req for a reason
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
MAJIN72
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 10:02 PM CDT
I don't believe there should be a stealing req for trade locksmith titles, so here is what I've come up with recently and what I think would be appropriate reqs for each.
Public Menace/Public Safety Hazard
80 Lockpicking
80 Disarm Traps
(I say this much because around these ranks some people get cocky and start blowing area effect traps in crowded places because they think they can handle them. Like a laughing gasser in the atrium in the first tier bank in Ratha. 3 times in a row...)
Trap-Blower
5 Lockpicking
5 Disarm Traps
(A coplimentary title to Pick-Snapper, except that neither should have the stealing req because it is unneccessary.)
Trap-Tamer
100 Disarm Traps
Lock-Tamer
100 Lockpicking
Box-Tamer
125 Lockpicking
125 Disarm Traps
25 Agility
Pick-Mender
100 Lockpicking
100 Mechanical Lore
Box-Popper
200 Lockpicking
200 Disarm Traps
30 Agility
The next three titles I don't have reqs for, but I know what stat and skills should be checked: Lockpicking, Mechanical Lore, and Agility. All are, of course, Thief only.
Lockpick Craftsman (Around the skill needed to carve High Quality Lockpicks about 90% of the time from Iron Keyblanks)
Master Lockpick Craftsman (Around the skill needed to carve Master Lockpicks 90% of the time from Iron Keyblanks)
Grand-Master Lockpick Craftsman (Around the skill need to carve Grand-Master Lockpicks 90% of the time from Iron Keyblanks)
Happiness stems only from violence. - The Stock
It's like putting a band-aid on cancer. - Philip Anselmo
Public Menace/Public Safety Hazard
80 Lockpicking
80 Disarm Traps
(I say this much because around these ranks some people get cocky and start blowing area effect traps in crowded places because they think they can handle them. Like a laughing gasser in the atrium in the first tier bank in Ratha. 3 times in a row...)
Trap-Blower
5 Lockpicking
5 Disarm Traps
(A coplimentary title to Pick-Snapper, except that neither should have the stealing req because it is unneccessary.)
Trap-Tamer
100 Disarm Traps
Lock-Tamer
100 Lockpicking
Box-Tamer
125 Lockpicking
125 Disarm Traps
25 Agility
Pick-Mender
100 Lockpicking
100 Mechanical Lore
Box-Popper
200 Lockpicking
200 Disarm Traps
30 Agility
The next three titles I don't have reqs for, but I know what stat and skills should be checked: Lockpicking, Mechanical Lore, and Agility. All are, of course, Thief only.
Lockpick Craftsman (Around the skill needed to carve High Quality Lockpicks about 90% of the time from Iron Keyblanks)
Master Lockpick Craftsman (Around the skill needed to carve Master Lockpicks 90% of the time from Iron Keyblanks)
Grand-Master Lockpick Craftsman (Around the skill need to carve Grand-Master Lockpicks 90% of the time from Iron Keyblanks)
Happiness stems only from violence. - The Stock
It's like putting a band-aid on cancer. - Philip Anselmo
BANANAFISH
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 10:07 PM CDT
>>Happiness stems only from violence. - The Stock
One must've been put in the stocks for this title? That doesn't seem appropriate.
One must've been put in the stocks for this title? That doesn't seem appropriate.
BOBBRYAN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 10:17 PM CDT
>>umm Valcer you just stated yourself that stealing is used by all thieves to circle.. you have to do it yourself.
it's a hard guild req for a reason<<
If you go by that philosphy... some of those titles are at 500th circle. We're only required 2 ranks per through 100th. That's not a lot. We also have hard reqs of hiding, stalking, and lockpicking. Backstab is also a guild-only skill. Stealing isn't the only thing that defines a thief, and that should be apparant with our titles.
Valcer was just asking for a few non-stealing titles
-Wighten
it's a hard guild req for a reason<<
If you go by that philosphy... some of those titles are at 500th circle. We're only required 2 ranks per through 100th. That's not a lot. We also have hard reqs of hiding, stalking, and lockpicking. Backstab is also a guild-only skill. Stealing isn't the only thing that defines a thief, and that should be apparant with our titles.
Valcer was just asking for a few non-stealing titles
-Wighten
BOBBRYAN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 10:20 PM CDT
Trap Harvester
Lockmaker
Infiltrator and Infiltration Specialist should have some lockpicking and disarm reqs attached. I mean... it is important to infiltrating.
Box Thumper (based on the Thief/mechlore dismantle)
You could do some Dismantle titles too.
-Wighten
Lockmaker
Infiltrator and Infiltration Specialist should have some lockpicking and disarm reqs attached. I mean... it is important to infiltrating.
Box Thumper (based on the Thief/mechlore dismantle)
You could do some Dismantle titles too.
-Wighten
YAMCER
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 10:47 PM CDT
<<Valcer was just asking for a few non-stealing titles>>
oh i know what he was asking for, but he was replacing a skill with a hard req (stealing) with another skill with a hard req (hiding)
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
oh i know what he was asking for, but he was replacing a skill with a hard req (stealing) with another skill with a hard req (hiding)
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
RAYJE
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 10:47 PM CDT
>I agree with valcer sorta. Assassian should be open to anyone who can backstab or snipe :) Why because a Ranger can Assassinate probably do it better in the wild then any thief can though sniping. Just a thought, now back to you shady people titles.
As soon as you can backstab, you can get the title.
(left blank for sensitive readers)
As soon as you can backstab, you can get the title.
(left blank for sensitive readers)
MAJIN72
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/07/2006 11:48 PM CDT
>>One must've been put in the stocks for this title? That doesn't seem appropriate.
That was a phrase that one of my friends (whose last name was Stock, but he was nicknamed "The Stock" or "The" for short) and I came up with while we were at Nuclear Propulsion Prototype together back in 2002. He had the bare bones of it and I helped flesh it out a bit, so I've always given him the credit.
Yeah, I was thinking of dismantle titles, but I don't know what all the dismantles are and these were all the serious ones I was thinking of from that list that I put out earlier. Though I was kinda fond of "A Lockpick's Best Friend" and "A Box's Worst Nightmare." Oh well, there are always custom titles... :)
Trap Harvester is really good, I wish I had thought of it... :P It could have Box Harvester as a corollary too. It'd need weapon, armor, and evasion reqs as well as disarm and lockpicking. I think it would look something like this:
Box Harvester
100 Lockpicking
100 Disarm Traps
100 Primary Weapon
100 Primary Armor
100 Evasion
30 Strength
That'd leave you with ranks a bit above what you need to start killing off Sand Sprites, since that is pretty much where you first start "harvesting" boxes anyway. You'd need the strength because when I go box harvesting, I usually leave with three duffel bags worth of boxes, no less.
Happiness stems only from violence. - The Stock
It's like putting a band-aid on cancer. - Philip Anselmo
That was a phrase that one of my friends (whose last name was Stock, but he was nicknamed "The Stock" or "The" for short) and I came up with while we were at Nuclear Propulsion Prototype together back in 2002. He had the bare bones of it and I helped flesh it out a bit, so I've always given him the credit.
Yeah, I was thinking of dismantle titles, but I don't know what all the dismantles are and these were all the serious ones I was thinking of from that list that I put out earlier. Though I was kinda fond of "A Lockpick's Best Friend" and "A Box's Worst Nightmare." Oh well, there are always custom titles... :)
Trap Harvester is really good, I wish I had thought of it... :P It could have Box Harvester as a corollary too. It'd need weapon, armor, and evasion reqs as well as disarm and lockpicking. I think it would look something like this:
Box Harvester
100 Lockpicking
100 Disarm Traps
100 Primary Weapon
100 Primary Armor
100 Evasion
30 Strength
That'd leave you with ranks a bit above what you need to start killing off Sand Sprites, since that is pretty much where you first start "harvesting" boxes anyway. You'd need the strength because when I go box harvesting, I usually leave with three duffel bags worth of boxes, no less.
Happiness stems only from violence. - The Stock
It's like putting a band-aid on cancer. - Philip Anselmo
TRIAKOR
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/08/2006 08:58 AM CDT
Public Menace/Public Safety Hazard
80 Lockpicking
80 Disarm Traps
(I say this much because around these ranks some people get cocky and start blowing area effect traps in crowded places because they think they can handle them. Like a laughing gasser in the atrium in the first tier bank in Ratha. 3 times in a row...)
I dont know if was me you are talking about, but my thief has 250 disarm/300+picklocks and once he set it off three or four times. Yes, he could have have picked through the
trap, but it was just too funny setting it off repeatedly with a half dozen people sitting
around him. Of course, he also knows the traps does ZERO damage and is just amusing/annoying to people.
80 Lockpicking
80 Disarm Traps
(I say this much because around these ranks some people get cocky and start blowing area effect traps in crowded places because they think they can handle them. Like a laughing gasser in the atrium in the first tier bank in Ratha. 3 times in a row...)
I dont know if was me you are talking about, but my thief has 250 disarm/300+picklocks and once he set it off three or four times. Yes, he could have have picked through the
trap, but it was just too funny setting it off repeatedly with a half dozen people sitting
around him. Of course, he also knows the traps does ZERO damage and is just amusing/annoying to people.
MARGASH
KHAM
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/08/2006 01:35 PM CDT
I would rather have a small amount of GOOD titles, then a large set of BAD titles (i.e shadow thief, shadow fighter, shadow picker, shadow hooligan a.k.a "Warrior mage titles").
We can have 1000 billion titles, but remember you can only wear one.
~I
We can have 1000 billion titles, but remember you can only wear one.
~I
MAJIN72
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/08/2006 10:22 PM CDT
Actually, Triakor, I was talking about myself... I was really sure I'd be able to disarm the trap, but I kept setting it off until I gave up after the fourth try. People were pretty irate, especially since I had my "of the Locksmith Union" post title up also... o_O;;
Not to mention I've also blown a chlorine gasser and two mega boomers being cocky over at the pond in the Town Green over in Cursings. I had a lot of apologizing to do after all of those... Nearly killed myself each time too.
I wasn't referring to the ability of harvesting boxes, Margash. Just getting them from hunting, not pulling them apart, but you probably already got that from my previous post. I think that Wighten's "Trap Harvester" suggestion works good for that sense of it though.
Happiness stems only from violence. - The Stock
It's like putting a band-aid on cancer. - Philip Anselmo
Not to mention I've also blown a chlorine gasser and two mega boomers being cocky over at the pond in the Town Green over in Cursings. I had a lot of apologizing to do after all of those... Nearly killed myself each time too.
I wasn't referring to the ability of harvesting boxes, Margash. Just getting them from hunting, not pulling them apart, but you probably already got that from my previous post. I think that Wighten's "Trap Harvester" suggestion works good for that sense of it though.
Happiness stems only from violence. - The Stock
It's like putting a band-aid on cancer. - Philip Anselmo
DR-IAYN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 11:15 AM CDT
>>Dragon Fighter, Deathwind, and Ironwoman
The pretend reqs for these changed when we added the recent new titles for barbarians. Due to how pretend titles were working, pretend barbarians would qualify for more titles than real barbarians, and the change we made to fix that changed the reqs for the pretend version of these titles.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
The pretend reqs for these changed when we added the recent new titles for barbarians. Due to how pretend titles were working, pretend barbarians would qualify for more titles than real barbarians, and the change we made to fix that changed the reqs for the pretend version of these titles.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
ZETHIN01095
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 11:29 AM CDT
Can you post the new reqs? Some people trained a lot of charisma and I'm sure they'd like to know what the new reqs are
NKRISS
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 12:36 PM CDT
>>Can you post the new reqs? Some people trained a lot of charisma and I'm sure they'd like to know what the new reqs are
PAFO!
-Teeklin
"You take people, you put them on a journey, you give them peril, you find out who they really are. If there's any kind of fiction better than that, I don't know what it is." -Joss Whedon
PAFO!
-Teeklin
"You take people, you put them on a journey, you give them peril, you find out who they really are. If there's any kind of fiction better than that, I don't know what it is." -Joss Whedon
MARGASH
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 01:18 PM CDT
>The pretend reqs for these changed when we added the recent new titles for barbarians. Due to how pretend titles were working, pretend barbarians would qualify for more titles than real barbarians, and the change we made to fix that changed the reqs for the pretend version of these titles.
(1) Pretend barbs should have more titles than real barbs. We get all our pretend titles, and the normal titles.
(2) Maybe you meant pretend barbs were getting more barb titles than real barbs. I'm sure this is still the case. I'm sure there are 100th circle thieves pretending to be barbs with more titles than 20th circle barbs.
I guess I'm confused. Are you syaing equal circle thief and barb, the thief would have more pretend barb titles than the barb? Because that's not the case. Maybe you're saying that a thief 20 circles greater could have more pretend barb titles than a barb 20 circles lower?
I bet everything is OK. Clarification would be appreciated. Thanks.
(1) Pretend barbs should have more titles than real barbs. We get all our pretend titles, and the normal titles.
(2) Maybe you meant pretend barbs were getting more barb titles than real barbs. I'm sure this is still the case. I'm sure there are 100th circle thieves pretending to be barbs with more titles than 20th circle barbs.
I guess I'm confused. Are you syaing equal circle thief and barb, the thief would have more pretend barb titles than the barb? Because that's not the case. Maybe you're saying that a thief 20 circles greater could have more pretend barb titles than a barb 20 circles lower?
I bet everything is OK. Clarification would be appreciated. Thanks.
VROTSOSJ
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 02:31 PM CDT
Barbarian abilities extend up through 255th circle, the only check on those abilities for thieves is charisma. That would be at least part of it.
I am --- Navak
I am --- Navak
YAMCER
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 04:00 PM CDT
<<Can you post the new reqs? Some people trained a lot of charisma and I'm sure they'd like to know what the new reqs are>>
Iayn can you post the reqs for Dragon fighter since it would be a correction on what Reisk posted when he was around. Having GM information posted that is now wrong should warrant a post to correct it.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Iayn can you post the reqs for Dragon fighter since it would be a correction on what Reisk posted when he was around. Having GM information posted that is now wrong should warrant a post to correct it.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
LYSIONEK
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 05:07 PM CDT
>>Dragon Fighter, Deathwind, and Ironwoman
>The pretend reqs for these changed when we added the recent new titles for barbarians. Due to how pretend titles were working, pretend barbarians would qualify for more titles than real barbarians, and the change we made to fix that changed the reqs for the pretend version of these titles.
Thank you for your response. Sucks to be me, I guess. Also, thank you very much, Solomon, for getting the ball rolling on this issue. I really appreciate it.
>Iayn can you post the reqs for Dragon fighter since it would be a correction on what Reisk posted when he was around. Having GM information posted that is now wrong should warrant a post to correct it.
I agree. I'd really appreciate if this req could be posted, since the old information is no longer valid.
-Pythea-
"This is a community. It's not just a game." - Ssra
>The pretend reqs for these changed when we added the recent new titles for barbarians. Due to how pretend titles were working, pretend barbarians would qualify for more titles than real barbarians, and the change we made to fix that changed the reqs for the pretend version of these titles.
Thank you for your response. Sucks to be me, I guess. Also, thank you very much, Solomon, for getting the ball rolling on this issue. I really appreciate it.
>Iayn can you post the reqs for Dragon fighter since it would be a correction on what Reisk posted when he was around. Having GM information posted that is now wrong should warrant a post to correct it.
I agree. I'd really appreciate if this req could be posted, since the old information is no longer valid.
-Pythea-
"This is a community. It's not just a game." - Ssra
RX4PAIN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/09/2006 08:11 PM CDT
<<The pretend reqs for these changed when we added the recent new titles for barbarians. Due to how pretend titles were working, pretend barbarians would qualify for more titles than real barbarians, and the change we made to fix that changed the reqs for the pretend version of these titles.
Thanks for telling us... 2 weeks later.
Thanks for telling us... 2 weeks later.
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 11:01 AM CDT
<<Thanks for telling us... 2 weeks later.>>
Tone the attitude down about three or four notches, please.
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
Tone the attitude down about three or four notches, please.
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 11:06 AM CDT
<<Can you post the new reqs? Some people trained a lot of charisma and I'm sure they'd like to know what the new reqs are >>
Deathwind (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 70
Dragon Fighter (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 80
At least 45 in discipline
Ironman/woman (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 100
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
Deathwind (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 70
Dragon Fighter (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 80
At least 45 in discipline
Ironman/woman (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 100
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
RX4PAIN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 11:24 AM CDT
<<Tone the attitude down about three or four notches, please.
Ok, I apoligize.
But I'd just like to say that in the last 2-3 weeks I've seen 2 releases have been made that impact players which have gone into the game with no announcements made.
They only came after players started saying, "Hey, what gives?" and asking for answers. I think if a change goes into the game, especially changes to title requirements, somebody should be told that. As far as we knew it was some kind of bug.
Ok, I apoligize.
But I'd just like to say that in the last 2-3 weeks I've seen 2 releases have been made that impact players which have gone into the game with no announcements made.
They only came after players started saying, "Hey, what gives?" and asking for answers. I think if a change goes into the game, especially changes to title requirements, somebody should be told that. As far as we knew it was some kind of bug.
BOBBRYAN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 11:27 AM CDT
>>Dragon Fighter (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 80
At least 45 in discipline<<
Ok, I'll start out by saying I like those reqs a lot more. They make sense, and don't allow Thieves to get a 60th barb title at 20th. However... doesn't that kinda undermine the whole 'charisma for abilities' element? Will other guild's titles reqs be changing? For instance if War Mages get (or already have) titles for CL and Fire Rain?
Is there going to be a list of some of these pretend titles on the website that differ from what we've been told to expect? And, will we get some indication on when certain rules break down? You said 125% backstab wasn't in effect after the 50th barb titles.
Of course... really, I don't expect the answers until you finish deciding what you're going to be doing. But, I'd like to have a little more guidance on the website when you put everything in stone.
-Wighten
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 80
At least 45 in discipline<<
Ok, I'll start out by saying I like those reqs a lot more. They make sense, and don't allow Thieves to get a 60th barb title at 20th. However... doesn't that kinda undermine the whole 'charisma for abilities' element? Will other guild's titles reqs be changing? For instance if War Mages get (or already have) titles for CL and Fire Rain?
Is there going to be a list of some of these pretend titles on the website that differ from what we've been told to expect? And, will we get some indication on when certain rules break down? You said 125% backstab wasn't in effect after the 50th barb titles.
Of course... really, I don't expect the answers until you finish deciding what you're going to be doing. But, I'd like to have a little more guidance on the website when you put everything in stone.
-Wighten
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 11:32 AM CDT
<<Of course... really, I don't expect the answers until you finish deciding what you're going to be doing.>>
These are good questions and I appreciate your understanding.
Please DO save them and respost them when I finish this current batch and I'll get you some answers.
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
These are good questions and I appreciate your understanding.
Please DO save them and respost them when I finish this current batch and I'll get you some answers.
Solomon
What's going on?
http://www.livejournal.com/~drbubba
LYSIONEK
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 12:13 PM CDT
>>Deathwind (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 70
Dragon Fighter (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 80
At least 45 in discipline
Ironman/woman (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 100<<
Thank you very much for posting these. However, I do have a question. Ironwoman/man is a title based off the 50th circle barb ability to berserk Steel. Dragon Fighter is based off the 60th barb ability to perform the Dragon Dance. I'm wondering why Ironman/man has a higher circle req than Dragon Fighter when technically, the dance is available later in a barbarian's career than the berserk.
-Pythea-
"This is a community. It's not just a game." - Ssra
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 70
Dragon Fighter (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 80
At least 45 in discipline
Ironman/woman (pretend)
Must have pretend guild Barbarian
At least circle 100<<
Thank you very much for posting these. However, I do have a question. Ironwoman/man is a title based off the 50th circle barb ability to berserk Steel. Dragon Fighter is based off the 60th barb ability to perform the Dragon Dance. I'm wondering why Ironman/man has a higher circle req than Dragon Fighter when technically, the dance is available later in a barbarian's career than the berserk.
-Pythea-
"This is a community. It's not just a game." - Ssra
VROTSOSJ
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 12:29 PM CDT
I don't know about these requirements either...I mean I know it's unpopular but I think thieves probably should have more titles available since they aren't allowed to make choices to gain titles.
It looks like for berserks it would require double the circle and dances would require 20 circles and a certain amount of discipline.
Roars don't run out until 255th circle, and while yes it may seem bad that thieves would have more roar titles than a barb, they don't appear to get any choice in what titles they get. At 30 charisma they have roar titles x-y, at 32 or 35 or whatever, they have x-z.
So while it may seem to suck on the surface to some barbs, I think thieves should have more flexibility anyway.
I think the best solution, though perhaps not feasible and especially not with no thief dev GM, is in the future to have a fake guild ability table added for every guild and thieves choose which ability they gained at the appropriate marker, whether that marker be charisma, circle, discipline or some combination of other factors.
I am --- Navak
It looks like for berserks it would require double the circle and dances would require 20 circles and a certain amount of discipline.
Roars don't run out until 255th circle, and while yes it may seem bad that thieves would have more roar titles than a barb, they don't appear to get any choice in what titles they get. At 30 charisma they have roar titles x-y, at 32 or 35 or whatever, they have x-z.
So while it may seem to suck on the surface to some barbs, I think thieves should have more flexibility anyway.
I think the best solution, though perhaps not feasible and especially not with no thief dev GM, is in the future to have a fake guild ability table added for every guild and thieves choose which ability they gained at the appropriate marker, whether that marker be charisma, circle, discipline or some combination of other factors.
I am --- Navak
BOBBRYAN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 12:34 PM CDT
>>I think the best solution, though perhaps not feasible and especially not with no thief dev GM, is in the future to have a fake guild ability table added for every guild and thieves choose which ability they gained at the appropriate marker, whether that marker be charisma, circle, discipline or some combination of other factors.<<
I toyed with that idea myself. And I agree that it would be really cool. But I just can't see it happening without a Thief GM deciding that the time has come that disguise gets overhauled, and pretty much rewrites it from the ground up. And I think right now, Thieves have a few higher priorities than what amounts to a fluff ability. Would be cool though.
-Wighten
I toyed with that idea myself. And I agree that it would be really cool. But I just can't see it happening without a Thief GM deciding that the time has come that disguise gets overhauled, and pretty much rewrites it from the ground up. And I think right now, Thieves have a few higher priorities than what amounts to a fluff ability. Would be cool though.
-Wighten
VROTSOSJ
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 12:56 PM CDT
Yeah and I think it would be best to add it into a bigger thing...like thief guild reps of each guild who would have access to the disguise items (perc health shows you as an empath from the empath rep etc...) and they would provide general guidelines on how to fake each guild, what the ability you're choosing does (as told by a thief faking that guild), etc...
Some other stuff which fleshes it out but these days I'm finding myself with more non-barb ideas than barb ideas it seems.
I am --- Navak
Some other stuff which fleshes it out but these days I'm finding myself with more non-barb ideas than barb ideas it seems.
I am --- Navak
RAYJE
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 12:57 PM CDT
>I toyed with that idea myself. And I agree that it would be really cool. But I just can't see it happening without a Thief GM deciding that the time has come that disguise gets overhauled, and pretty much rewrites it from the ground up. And I think right now, Thieves have a few higher priorities than what amounts to a fluff ability. Would be cool though.
Thieves have disguises? Cool.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
-Yogi Berra
Thieves have disguises? Cool.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
-Yogi Berra
DR-IAYN
Re: Aint gonna be any left
07/10/2006 02:01 PM CDT
The difficulty with pretend barb titles being based off of charisma is that would give pretend barbs more titles than real barbs with respect to titles that are not solely skill/stat based.
I personally have no objection to allowing choice of a title by a thief if there were a system that tracked and accounted for that, but there is no such system right now so the circle limits were put in.
With respect to posting the requirements, it would seem to me that keeping quiet on the pretend requirements would allow a more effective pretend cover, since other guilds would not know what titles you could qualify for when. I'll leave the decision about posting those pretend reqs (or more than have already been posted) in the hands of those with more direct involvement in the title system and the thief guild.
And by the way, I don't think that any of the titles don't have pretend reqs, though some of them may be very very high at this point in relation to the circles/abilities of current player population.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
I personally have no objection to allowing choice of a title by a thief if there were a system that tracked and accounted for that, but there is no such system right now so the circle limits were put in.
With respect to posting the requirements, it would seem to me that keeping quiet on the pretend requirements would allow a more effective pretend cover, since other guilds would not know what titles you could qualify for when. I'll leave the decision about posting those pretend reqs (or more than have already been posted) in the hands of those with more direct involvement in the title system and the thief guild.
And by the way, I don't think that any of the titles don't have pretend reqs, though some of them may be very very high at this point in relation to the circles/abilities of current player population.
Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison
