Gad, when ya delete a post, mind making the link more then a dot? Damn hard to click with a touchpad.

:)

Ecoles

Make your next bug a stick bug!

-|-|--

Was that so hard?

Ecoles :)

Just click the show all line to the upper right of the displayed posts box...Ecoles. that will take care of having to try to click Gads minimalist perspective on bugs.

Daython

Wow those numbers look... funny. You sure that's only for 5 items? That's like... 200 pounds an item... Course I'm as green as they come to forging...

-Mozzik

I don't like doing that, because come on, we all know Gad sometimes comes up with some weird titles sometimes...

Seriously, I've seen good discussions under really bad titles.

I tend to check everything before I dismiss it.

Ecoles

Phanton and Relayer,

First. Congrats on an awesome set of armor.

Now, we have another reason NOT to wear heavy plate. First we had leather combat armors with about the same or better protections than plate, now we have chain with better stats than plate.

Yes, I know, the cost of that armor is probably so high only a handful of folks in the Realms could afford it but still <shakes his head and rubs his plate armor sadly, thinking its become passe.. again>

Redarch

dont have to imagine i know what it looks like

a half plate was made with kertig

came out great/great/good with great abosorbs without da and with it goes up to extreme/extreme/high with extreme absorbs

High hinderence

Tyden

Problem is that Plate absorbtion stays at great and don't increase..So basicly there is very little change by using kertig in plate but there is a larger increase to chain.

Crusader Taghz

P.s. I thought it was bad spelling day.

Hard caps... bah...

In my opinion, if you have the skill and the legendary metals, why not have the super armor?

Though we do not even have fists in Plat... save one or two.

---

(There is something witty here. You are all impressed. Yesss...)

>>Us Heavy Plate users just get to wonder why we wear 1000 stones of armor.

It makes us look cool?

>>Problem is that Plate absorbtion stays at great and don't increase

So, once more, someone tell me what our guild "owns" as our special and defining feature?? Our ability to wear the best protecting.. oh wait.. that caps at "great"?? Umm, ok.. the heaviest?? armor with the lowest hinderance?

Do ya think we might be able to trade that ability to some other guild for ANYTHING else? Probably not, no one would be silly enough to want it... but it does give them something to point to and say "See? You have that metal armor thing so quit asking for more".

Heavy plate in the first 10 or 20 circles certainly helps. I've noted the same "stagnant absorb" problem that Daython mentioned in the GloryarmRealms post earlier. At 300+ ranks.. it looks like the absorb caps actually decreases our effectiveness. How does Galain and Veldehar survive the flex zombies in the Abbey? By either killing the zombie before it gets close enough to hit ala Galain, or by evading the blows in leather, ala Veldehar. Put a paladin in plate in there and we get sliced and diced like we were wearing paper. I know I'm shouting in the wilderness here, but, doesn't anyone see the discrepancy?

And before the flames start.. once more.. I enjoy being a Paladin, I hunt just fine and survive and train as is.. its just.. this discrepancy has been around as long as I have. Damissak did great with the changes in how more ranks in plate increase the protection of the armor.. but he stopped there. Could we get someone to please look into the "absorb caps" on plate?

Redarch

"With the point that Tyden is making... the absorbs will never get better than great. All evidence at this point shows that to be a hard cap. Hence there is more to gain from the high quality metals in chain than there is in Plate."

I made that point a while back if you search for it. I had Profesie pound a set of field plate at 784 stones which was the first with new metals I believe. The quality of the mix wasn't that great because I used low amounts of metals but the appraisal on the plate was very hard so I figured by then that with that weight I'd get extremes but no deal. After that happenes roughly a couple months back it was clear to me that absorptions wouldn't go over great. I had two types of confirmation. The first one was when Clynlyn showd me a bug he found and what happened and it proved that there's a great absorption cap on when you finish the armor pieces. The other proof was the half plate Tyden mentioned. I have had several folks come ask me how many fists to do this or to do that and what I tell them is flee from plate. IF you want plate, do acessories or be happy with great great good with great absorptions. The guy that made the half plate came to talk to me about it but me in a silly attempt to jump ferries ended up succeding on my way to and failing on my way back so I he took it to someone else. When the plate was pounded I was in the room with the guy and Profesie and while they bet that it would app extreme absorptions I bet it would app greats and it did come out greats just like the field plate I had done a couple months back.

That's the reason I went for hauberk instead of plate. I could do a low quality mix with damites and get a heavy set of field plate that apps great grea good with great absorptions so why should I spend my fists to get the same thing 300 stones lighter? I rather make myself a 305 stones high quality hauberk and get a set that is simply better than field plate. When y ou look at it..it has good protection to impact at 305 stones, it has moderate hinderance. While the field plate at 800 stones will give you high great mod with great or overwhelming hinderance.

So once again we Paladins grab the short stick. Not only we are entitled to have the same lowest hinderance as a mage.. and oddly enough they can also increase the absorptions on their set casting YS (someone hear mage DA?) but we now were proved that plate has no real advantage if you have the opportunity to have a chain set made out of new metals. I'm sure as Redarch said only a handful of folks will be able to get these done but still...it's quite disappointing finding out that the one thing you pick because it was the best option isn't anymore the best option. It's just more coins you'll have to spend to have a great set of chains.

Phanton

Pokes Phanton.....

Ratio of kertig to steel?

Daython

Oh I forgot to add. The IM is realms phanton or you can look me up in game as well.

Phanton

Whatever......

For those that would like to learn how to work with Kertig it is quite simple really.

A lead slug weighs 8 stones.... a kertig tear weighs... yes 8 stones. Hence one easy way to try to work your weights out and account for the ever mysterious disappearing volume start working with lead.

Generally speaking you want to build up the kertig with steel to achieve the volume and material data that you most want. I did experiments between wishing to achieve a higher flex value over raw hardness. I personally think raw hardness is the better thing, but I hardly have enough data to back it up. On the other hand, it does take quite a bit of diluted hardness high flex additives to produce very flexible kertig alloys, hence the hardness suffers appreciably.

Principle two. When adding steel in You want to create weights and quantities in an effort not to dilute the kertig too much to achieve the desired result. The way this is done is by mixing lightened steels through the use of dusts then pounding the lightened steel ONCE to the right size. As in pounding to a dart, a dagger, a sabre, a broadsword etc etc. Pounding to helms and such doesnt seem to work because they become to big to be remelted unless they are broken. You can achieve a gauranteed break by pounding with HES up and at an extremely high state of fatigue. Not very reliable all and all and alot more work than just understanding how to do it properly while dealing with weapons.

In the end it is always up to each person to share or not share what it is they know or don't know. I always considered this a folder of the "free" sharing of ideas concepts and techniques. Working with kertig isn't so hard, it is finding a good ratio that is a bit of a trick and an expense. I have hunches about what that is, but not the time nor access to materials to do so. I don't see a need to corner a market on kertig armor, there just isnt that much of it around. Oh well...

My hunch, I am guessing a ratio of 40% kertig to steel might be the optimum range to achieve, might be a touch lower. But the other factor to consider is the total weight of the item in comparision to the standard for that item. As in if a 350 stone haub is completely maxed out then you may get by with a lesser ratio of kertig to steel... if you wish a 300 stone haub you may need a higher ratio of kertig to steel to achieve the same results.

ponders all the other stuff in the post. Whatever.....

I really don't know nor care to continue focusing on some conflict that you have in your mind. Yup I can figure it out. And I will post freely my understanding of it.


Daython

hmmm looking at the weight and the app. I'd take a smiths guess that weight ratio of purity is around 65-80% around that area. I am banking 5-6 fist min. Anything considerably less would dilute the app of the mix to not create it.

Clynlyn

http://www.annotatedboredom.com/houseofownzing

-There are no winners. Just smelly people.

Numerous weapons aren't currently able to be made. The same is true for armor. Additionally, where are you gathering the info that the robe sword is the traditional weapon for a paladin? If you read it on a merchant's sign, you might want to start taking that at face value. No guild leader has ever mentioned a specific weapon I should be wielding. No council member has said it either.

Based on this.. I wouldn't expect paladins to get a bonus to creating any type of weapon whatsoever. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just giving my honest opinions (which probably does make me a jerk after all).

Mordril
________________
Anti-war hippies are quickly exposed when you club them over the head without provocation. They may not fight back the first time. Continue pummeling them until they see that violence is an occasional necessity.

I've looked at robe swords on Aesry. According to the description of them they are traditional paladin weapons.

I imagine the template for robe swords just plain wasn't included for forging. Perhaps that will change in the future.

Ryeka

Im possibly in the market for LC<forged> armor.

Im looking for body armor that will cover torso to legs.. I only want my hands and head free for Leather training still.

Keep in mind i belong to a special guild and do alot of shadow hunting BUT i would still like to enjoy better and lighter protection while engaged in melee without having tonnes of hindrence for hiding, stalking etc.

What are the stats out there on such armor, who makes it and an average cost.

Also.. will other names be able to be forged in Forging II? ie chain armor, some chain, some chain mail rather than just shirts and haubreks?

Thanks in advance.


~Your friendly neighborhood Dusk~

Thank you. Very informative site.


~Your friendly neighborhood Dusk~