I heard somewhere that chakral will be able to store inner fire as cambrinth stores mana. If such a thing is to be true then will a Barbarian be able to add stored fire to his own inner fire to compound desired effects? Could a Barbarian restore lost inner fire from prepped chakral?

Thanx fer readin

it might be a good idea to be able to make chakrel that provides this sort of function for enchanting by barbarians.



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Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius

>>I'd be wary of this idea. Barbs are still listed as taking a penalty for use of MD and this smacks of arcana. And I doubt very much the GMs are going to redesign the game from the ground up to put every function on the same back end then go 'ah, but Barbs we will give a full blown MD system but no skill checks'.

It's not all black and white. I'm sure some middleground could be discovered here.

In all honesty, I'm not too happy with how Inner Fire works in the new system. I understand that perhaps it's not final, and that a 150+ Barbarian with only 300 ranks in his inner fire skill may not see even half of our capabilities. Of course, I'd feel 10x better if we at least got 500-600'ish ranks grandfathered but that may be a dead horse by now.

With all of that said, I'd welcome any item that could help micro-manage our inner fire consumption. With so many changes to Barbarian philosophy I'm sure it could be feasible in one way or another.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

From what I've seen in test and heard I too am not a fan of inner fire 3.0. I'm holding out hope what I saw and experienced in test a month ago is different from what's released.

- Buuwl

the only thing about it I don't like is not knowing when I have enough to circle. Olwydds is incorrect on the new reqs. Once I circle twice I'll be able to figure it out mathematically and make my own spreadsheet, but I've only circled once so far since implementation.


That and its still showing up as Inner Magic. Magic = bad. Fire = good. :-)
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius

The grandfathering does seem egregiously low at high circles.

I know Barbarian abilities were already designed with a built-in compromise of being quicker to average power and longer to "cap," but the amount is simply very low for a system designed to scale to 1000+ ranks.

>>Especially when IF dictates majority if not all barb abilities

Keep in mind that, based on what Kodius was expressing, you wouldn't necessarily be better at doing something if you're grandfathered more ranks, because they'll just rescale what you need to get X amount of "oomph" out of your dance/form/etc.

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When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/

Do we know what grandfathering is going be for those skills?

Thanks

Still looks like only 300-350 ranks

Pretty low considering that most players would have higher than min reqs by the time they got to 150

I know I would

>> As of last we were told:

>> Augmentation will be Grandfathered at the rate of 1st Supernatural, Debilitation will be Grandfathered at rate of 2nd Supernatural, and Warding will be Grandfathered at rate of 1/circle.

>> See http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Barbarians_3.0#Circle_Requirements for reqs.


He's saying the actual grandfathering numbers are ridiculous. Example:

My 168th magic-tert Barbarian ends up with about as much magic as my 121st magic-tert Paladin.

That's a difference of 47 circles by the absurd 150+ 2.5x reqs, or 74 circles in terms of old requirements. 74 circles!

To boot, this Paladin hasn't been trained in over 7 years. All were gains under old experience, where terts were absolutely atrocious.

I've already brought up how ridiculous and unfair this, is not just in the idea but by comparison to how MU's get their new magic skills grandfathered. It's understandable that 'more ranks only lowers IF costs' but this leaves a big TDP gap between MUs and NMUs.

The argument here is that they shouldn't use base requirements for magic grandfathering - because they're completely unrealistic. No one is going to have their 'skills that determine the functioning of their abilities and therefore their effectiveness as a class' that low.

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IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

Then raise the magic requirement per circle

I don't think 5 ranks is out of line for a guild's core ability

We are weapon prime so it moves faster but to my knowledge its not like we get a "bonus" for being a barb

Besides that what we get for dancing

Gimp whatever controls that and you're looking at a commoner with weapon ranks

>>Then raise the magic requirement per circle. I don't think 5 ranks is out of line for a guild's core ability

While your circle requirements might be lower than what other magic tert guilds average as a result of the lower circle reqs, you're never going to be anywhere near a 5 per req until you're looking at what you'd be getting grandfathered at 151st circle and higher.

guild	1-10	11-30	31-70	71-100	101-150
barbarian	1/0	1/0	2/2	2/2	3/3
paladin	1/1	2/1	2/2	3/2	3/3
ranger	1/1/1	2/2/1	2/2/2	3/3/2	3/3/3

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When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/

>So I'd like to see that fixed before the barb guild is again left behind

The barb guild was just rewritten from the ground up. As in, it's in Plat. I think Vin is a great guy, but I also think he doesn't have a high level barbarian in plat to test with all the systems in place. I could be wrong.

As such, Kodius has proven himself to have the ambition and ability to bring forth great things, and I'm sick of 'whaaaa my guild sucks and everyone hates it' from everyone, and every guild.

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

<I think Vin is a great guy, but I also think he doesn't have a high level barbarian in plat to test with all the systems in place>

there was a test before it was in plat....

>>So I'd like to see that fixed before the barb guild is again left behind

Just stop already. :GLARE: This Guild has seen more development time in the last year, than half the other Guilds combined over the last decade. Rewriting an entire Guild and 50-something abilities with plenty of room for expansion and deep-development is hardly being left behind...

There was a real chance of not grandfathering anything and letting Barbarians train skill back up from 0 just like Rangers and Paladins had to do with TM skill, and how some people will have to do with Lore Crafting skills post-split. The current levels are sufficient for using abilities balanced for your circle, while still giving a good bit of room to expand.

The problem with making a requirement of 5 ranks for circle (or whatever number), is they will NEVER EVER learn as fast as weapons. This means they will ALWAYS be holding you back from circling, which is not enjoyable.


>>there was a test before it was in plat

What he said. The test was incomplete and hardly a good preview of the system as a whole. I've adjusted every IF drain formula and every experience awarding formula since then. This is only live in Plat right now.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>>I've adjusted every IF drain formula and every experience awarding formula since then.
>>Not what I've heard from people in plat

Assuming your quoted response is in relation to what I quoted from Kodius, I can confirm that this has indeed been happening. We have a group of dedicated Barbarian characters testing at every skill level. Speaking only for the ones I know of for sure, We have Barbs at 7th, 12th, 17th, 25th, 55th, (Not sure but fits in this gap), and 120th+ circles testing hard. Many adjustments have been made, including IF cost, grandfathering and viability at-level. And we're still working on it.

>>The current levels are sufficient for using abilities balanced for your circle, while still giving a good bit of room to expand.

If you meant the above, please see the part about tweaks to viability at-level.

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~The Prydaen~

>Not what I've heard from people in plat

Ok name dropper, tell us who 'your people' in plat are.

Or have them post here.

Because being keyed into the plat community, despite not playing there myself anymore other than a month a year, I'm going to call bull@#$% on you. Total and complete fabrication to justify your self pity and chicken little 'sky is falling' mentallity. Every barb I've spoken to about the new BARB (and that's the key word, the BARABARIAN system, not DR3 as a whole, Kodius can't control that), has said it's pretty good.

It needs tweaking, all of DR3 needs tweaking, that's why Solomon made a public announcement that they were delaying the release till at least after the festival for more evaluation and testing.

Plus Vawn's player plays like 3 barbs in plat of varying circle and ability, regularly.

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

>>Is anyone in plat 150+? I ask because there is a huge difference between 120 and 150+

>>It would be beneficial to see how things end up at that end of the spectrum.

Agreed, but to my knowledge, Plat has no 150+ Barbs yet. Prime will have to break Barbarian endgame when it drops there, I'm afraid.

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~The Prydaen~

>>Is anyone in plat 150+? I ask because there is a huge difference between 120 and 150+

So I am curious what scenario would result in the Guild being fun and enjoyable to 120th, and then somehow fall apart at 150th.

I just copied two Barbarians in the 120ish range and the 160th range.

120th -
Inner fire: 390 ranks
Augmentation: 323 ranks
Debilitation and Warding: 420 ranks

160th -
Inner Fire: 675 ranks
Augmentation: 542 ranks
Debilitation and Warding: 420 ranks


Ok, now for the testing with the 120th Barbarian


11:17 - began 4 forms (Dragon, Buffalo, Bear, Badger)

11:19 - Pulsed to 2/32

11:20 - Pulsed to 3/32

11:22 - Pulsed to 4/32 .... so it would appear you could eventually mind lock from just cycling 4 forms, but it would take a while - which is intended. Throwing in the occasional meditation or berserk (once you have worked up your IF from killing things) will make it lock much faster.

A meditate power showed:

You are currently practicing the Badger Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Buffalo Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Bear Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.
You are currently practicing the Dragon Form and will hold focus of it for a very long time.

>>>>>>>>>>>-|

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You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut.

So you can see with 4 forms up you are reduced to about 15% of your passive inner fire regeneration cap. This is the same level a circle 20 barbarian hits when they use 2 forms. The difference is you don't need to be hunting to maintain them indefinately. Inner fire just bounces between 10-15% while out of combat. That seems like a very nice improvement, and as you work towards 1500 ranks of inner fire you'll see the bar indicating your passive regen limit continue inching up to around the 25% mark.


Now for the 160th:

With the same forms up:

>>>>>>>>>>>>-|

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Notice the bar is 1 tick further along the graph. Not bad considering these were mostly easy forms. Now if we swap out Buffalo (Intro difficulty) for Toad (Expert):


Circle 120:

>>>>>>>>-|

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Circle 160:

>>>>>>>>>>-|

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Now we are 2 marks ahead due to the expert Form requiring more skill. Modest improvements, but what do you really expect for 30ish circles? The real benefit is in how much IF berserks and meditations will use, numbers that are harder to model.

Don't forget that by 160th you'd have a few more slots as well, and those could enhance your capability just through the abilities they unlock....

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Ah, that looks pretty cool, Kodius. I can't wait until we get to use it! Thanks for that clarification and sharing some info with us.



Squanto: think they'll make it so we can swim to the islands?
Codiax: probably not but who knows
Squanto: maybe moonwalk faster on the iceroad with enough reflex, athletics & xibar up?
Codiax: lol yeah totally. have to sing ice ice baby to make it work