>>In general we are encouraging Plat players to watch what they post simply because so many aspects of 3.0 are in a state of flux and balance tweaking. It does not do the community any good to provide # of hits to kill, or time to mindlock when they might change tomorrow in response to player feedback.

Makes sense.

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When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/

>>120th -
Inner fire: 390 ranks
Augmentation: 323 ranks
Debilitation and Warding: 420 ranks<<

Not sure how you are getting such high numbers at 120. Using the chart on elantipedia that was posted at 150 I added 1st supernatural to 320. Here you have it already at 320 but the barb is only 120. By 120 my math shows augmentation should be 230s. What am I missing? What is the actual rank value for 150?

For you noobs out there asking for my sources, you obviously don't know me.

I don't name drop

yes- i realize that....


However - if the numbers changed, I didnt see any update.

I wouldn't be arguing about the numbers if we were updated with a new formula.

But we haven't been (to my knowledge) and I'm basing my posts off the chart on elanthipedia that someone posted.

So - going by those number, it doesn't add up.

KROONERMANREVENGE -

I know far more about this game than you ever could. I'm not going to elaborate on. It is just a fact.

So accept it.

I posted a bit ago about the numbers - If you want to keep finger pointing and crying that's up to you.

However - if you want to pull out a calculator and show me where my addition doesn't add up. That is fine and I welcome it.

I added the numbers a few times and it seems like Kodius example of a 120 barb's "magic" is way off.

I would welcome his numbers though because they are far better than mine.

As for credibility - my character's name is Jondong. If you want to stop by sometime and learn something. Be my guest. I'll set up a desk for you and a pad of paper with a pen so you can take notes.

hah way to delete your old post.

tricky tricky -

whatever buddy. One day you may be as good as me.

Until then - lol @ u

you know what?

I deleted my post too. STOP THE BICKERING

Ok - so whatever whatever...

I just want to know how Kodiu's calculated those numbers.

They look at lot better than grandfathering to minimums.

>To grandfather us ranks but leave a 500+ rank gap for improvement is not gonna allow us to be as effective as we are now

Doesn't that depend entirely on how the system is set up and what those ranks do, along with how the rewritten forms function and interlock with IF?

I guess my question is: why is it not possible that at 300-400-500 ranks of IF, you're going to be just as good as you are now, and at 1000+ ranks, you'll simply be better.

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

Some bonuses are static #s, and some are %s. Generally speaking you'll cap the bonuses quicker, and the durations slower.

If you look at a form, there are two skill contests for Inner Fire skill. You have the passive regen reduction, which is an easier contest. Then you have the IF pulse cost reduction that is a much harder contest. The pulse cost isn't quite as big a deal, so it doesn't penalize you as much for doing poorly at it. However, reducing it still benefits you when dancing multiple forms at once...

For the Augmentation challenge you have one challenge for the potency (strength of the buff). It is an easier contest than the one for the duration. This allows us to front-load the benefit, and works identical to the spell system for the most part.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Just had a post but my phone screwed it up. I'll get to it eventually but a maxed out Barb in terms of ability usage (generally around when they hit 150th) right now will not be that way in
the new system.

Look at what a capped Barb can do with Dragon dance right now (use it indefinitely without killing). There would be something very wrong with the new system if a Barb could come close to achieving maxed out duration with only 300 or 400 ranks, when effectiveness scales up to 1000 ranks. You can't simply get better after maxing out or hitting the cap, and unfortunately Barbs that have done that years ago won't even be close to that in 3.0.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

At 995 ranks of app, a full day of hunting(15-16 hours) will get me about .7 ranks. Terts move fairly well now, which is why I didn't like the initial proposal. This one is a bit more fair, but I do feel the numbers are a little low still.

I don't think the relatively low granfathering numbers will have any detrimental effects. Keep in mind that in 3.0 durations are increasing drastically, and capping an ability now and in barbarian 3.0 are very different concepts.

2.0: dances have a fixed boost to offensive factor based on skill level, duration increases based on stats up to ~22 minutes
3.0: many forms have a fixed boost to skill level much like current dances, duration increases with skills up to almost an hour

In 3.0 you can actually cap (to use dances/forms as an example) two different things, whereas in 2.0 duration was the only factor you could influence, with stat choices. I imagine the goal is to give you the boost times and strengths you're used to seeing now with your grandfathered ranks and then letting you drastically increase duration with more skill.

In other words, quality of life isn't falling with the relatively meager grandfathered ranks, it's actually improving in multiple ways: duration, ability to stack buffs as you see fit, reduction of ridiculous berserk restrictions, etc.

Some of the nerfs we have coming (passive BMR dying, no more dragon dance hax giving a 300% increase to... everything) are coming regardless of how grandfathering is decided and more free ranks of augmentation will not change that.

>>Switching Barbarians from an ancient system to a new one has nothing to do with the 'complaints' in this thread. Everything you listed is a result of this dramatic and much-needed change and has nothing to do with top-level maxed out Barbarians wanting to transition to a similar state in 3.0.

I think we're both in agreement that grandfathering them only to circle minimums, even with a level cap raised to 200, seems low.

My entire point was that maxed out then and maxed out now comprise entirely different concepts, and it is unreasonable to expect you to be grandfathered to "maxed out" in 3.0 when there are multiple dimensions built to scale to 1000+ ranks. It's like turning a line into a cube, only when all the laws of physics are chaning at the same time.

>>Even if not similar, you can't blame us for wanting to get as close as we can. Obviously that will ultimately be decided by the GMs.

No one's blaming you, I also think they are low.

>>Also, Dragon dance's potency is within global caps right now. I imagine the 300% comment was an exaggeration. The only problem is that it boosts so many things at once (or at least that was a problem with Dartenian's philosophy, not sure if it still stands now).

Dragon's magic resistance boost is actually pretty close to that, from my estimates.

Also, "global caps" doesn't mean much in relation to dances. I have found that the term usually falls under two dichotomies: the first kind, most often used by GMs, to indicate skill-boosting or stat-boosting caps universally applied to any buff across all guilds or items, which falls in the 90-100 rank range. The second term, most often used by players, simply means that the GMs are aware of the present strength of the boosts and have no tangible plans to decrease their strength at the present time. Dances and high-level predictions are the most notorious members of this second class of "global caps," though khri have their moments in the sun too.

>>My entire point was that maxed out then and maxed out now comprise entirely different concepts, and it is unreasonable to expect you to be grandfathered to "maxed out" in 3.0 when there are multiple dimensions built to scale to 1000+ ranks. It's like turning a line into a cube, only when all the laws of physics are chaning at the same time.

Right, I agree with this. I logged into test and we were no longer grandfathered bare minimums which made me 10x happier on the whole subject. I don't mind putting in work to get back up there. I just didn't want to be set back to a skill level that an 80th Barb would likely achieve in no time. Of course I'd like more (greedy and selfish), but I think anyone arguing in this thread will be much happier with their Inner Magic and Augmentation skills when the system is released. ;)

>>Dragon's magic resistance boost is actually pretty close to that, from my estimates.

I thought you mentioned that it gave a 300% boost to... everything. Guess not. :P

BMR is so crazy I find it impossible to test, because there's too many varying levels of it. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it did give that kind of boost, or even did more than that. BMR however has long been deemed an insanely OP beast at higher levels (I would say the most OP system in the game) so I've sort of not included it in discussions on Dragon. I do get the feeling if a Barb with 100 in defenses was magically given the BMR of Pendus he could dodge someone with 800 TM.

>>Also, "global caps" doesn't mean much in relation to dances. I have found that the term usually falls under two dichotomies: the first kind, most often used by GMs, to indicate skill-boosting or stat-boosting caps universally applied to any buff across all guilds or items, which falls in the 90-100 rank range. The second term, most often used by players, simply means that the GMs are aware of the present strength of the boosts and have no tangible plans to decrease their strength at the present time. Dances and high-level predictions are the most notorious members of this second class of "global caps," though khri have their moments in the sun too.

There has been some disputing on what 'global caps' mean. Remember, it also applies to percentage boosts as well.

In the current system, GM Zeyurn said that Dragon dance falls within global caps (this was years ago). GM Dartenian also confirmed it much later on but said that the only problem Dragon has is that it boosts too many different skills. That is an implication that the stat/percentage boosts does fall within acceptance of the current system. At the same time it has been shown that 400-500+ rank boosts from combining a lot of different boosts (such as what Rangers can do with their bonus) is not accepted in the current system, but they will wait until 3.0 to address it.

In the new system it's all changing which is a good thing. I don't think percentage boosts will receive as much love/favoritism as they do now.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

>>I thought you mentioned that it gave a 300% boost to... everything. Guess not. :P

Okay, I admit it, I was using hyperbole. Take me in sheriff, I done got caught :D

Training them to that level would have reduced your training time for other skills along the way, should the conversion shave off a % of the other terts to make it more accurate to what would have happened if the skills had really been available?

Player of Ryken
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"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson

AIM - RykenDR

>>You are completely wrong.

You realize it's a set of skills that you can't train concurrently without investing time in actually training them... time you can't do other things?

Player of Ryken
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"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson

AIM - RykenDR

>You realize it's a set of skills that you can't train concurrently without investing time in actually training them... time you can't do other things?

What other tert skills would a Barbarian be training out of combat?

Are you even a barb?

Any barb would know that a dance currently takes 5 seconds to start then runs till it wears out

Dances are done during combat, mostly

Why would you have to stop to train it?

That's like saying a magic user has to stop combat to train tm

You might want to read up on what the Augmentation skill does for every guild. The inner fire skill as well since that's essentially a Barb's version of PM. These skills can be trained without virtually any limitations, in and out of combat for every guild. Vocals even have limitations and I got to 700 in just a few years. These would've been much much much easier.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

I'm not so sure you understand what limitations are in regards to training skills? With vocals, there are certain actions you cannot perform. You should be able to reasonably train both Inner Fire and Augmentation. Sure, at early ranks it may be a bit difficult but as you are able to stack more forms, berserks, and meditations it'll be easy.

If you are arguing debilitation then you have a point, since that can only be trained in combat. People are arguing that they'd have 1000 ranks in skills that have no limiting factors and that's a fair argument. Never once has Augmentation learning stalled learning of other skills for me. Not sure why you're saying it would.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha