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>>160 hits with LE, 120 hits with ME
And should be fixed as of those last changes I made :P I saw someone mentioned still taking 20-30 hits with a bola, and so I'll investigate what might be going on there. Please continue to test at all skill ranges when possible so we can eliminate these edge cases.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DR-KODIUS
MARTINCOTY77
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 11:47 AM CST
Hey Kodius, has the ranged fix you were talking about earlier made it in yet?
Thanks,
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Thanks,
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
DR-KODIUS
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 01:17 PM CST
No.. not quite yet.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
LEMAGRAG
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 05:59 PM CST
>>That seems like way too long. Did you use it as a melee or thrown or both? If any melee attacks, did you use ATTACK or SWING?
I used THROW MY BOLA AT RAT. I had no idea I could use it as a melee weapon, too. I learned something today.
I'll roll up another Prydaen noob and try again. It was a little frustrating chasing the rat all over the shipyard every time the bola tossed it from the room, so I'll try an all-melee attack this time.
~player of Gulphphunger
I used THROW MY BOLA AT RAT. I had no idea I could use it as a melee weapon, too. I learned something today.
I'll roll up another Prydaen noob and try again. It was a little frustrating chasing the rat all over the shipyard every time the bola tossed it from the room, so I'll try an all-melee attack this time.
~player of Gulphphunger
GRIM45
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 06:02 PM CST
>>chasing the rat all over the shipyard every time the bola tossed it from the room
Huh? Is that new in 3.0?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Huh? Is that new in 3.0?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
BEVERAGEK
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 06:05 PM CST
>>Huh? Is that new in 3.0?
lol yes, I actually find it pretty hilarious that a light thrown weapon can throw a physical body from the room entirely :P
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
lol yes, I actually find it pretty hilarious that a light thrown weapon can throw a physical body from the room entirely :P
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
LEMAGRAG
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 06:16 PM CST
Rat vs. Bola round 2: melee only
40 hits, about 5 minutes, dead rat. All done while rank 0.
My only disappointment is that due to the character wipe, I was not able to use the awesome name the character generator gave me the first time (RIP, Stinkojeng).
~player of Gulphphunger
40 hits, about 5 minutes, dead rat. All done while rank 0.
My only disappointment is that due to the character wipe, I was not able to use the awesome name the character generator gave me the first time (RIP, Stinkojeng).
~player of Gulphphunger
MELLIONM6
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 06:35 PM CST
>>lol yes, I actually find it pretty hilarious that a light thrown weapon can throw a physical body from the room entirely :P
It could be like GS, where thrown and fired weapons can wind up in other rooms, 'in the local environs', which means a search RT, or 'go streaking off into the distance' meaning you lost it. Nothing like losing the last of your 5x drakar-tipped faewood arrows that you can't replace until they show up in a fest again to a bad-luck roll...
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
It could be like GS, where thrown and fired weapons can wind up in other rooms, 'in the local environs', which means a search RT, or 'go streaking off into the distance' meaning you lost it. Nothing like losing the last of your 5x drakar-tipped faewood arrows that you can't replace until they show up in a fest again to a bad-luck roll...
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
DR-KODIUS
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 06:35 PM CST
>>lol yes, I actually find it pretty hilarious that a light thrown weapon can throw a physical body from the room entirely :P
Well.. that does sound like a bug :P
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Well.. that does sound like a bug :P
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
LEMAGRAG
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 07:05 PM CST
>>lol yes, I actually find it pretty hilarious that a light thrown weapon can throw a physical body from the room entirely :P
>Well.. that does sound like a bug :P
Ah. I had never used a bola before, so I just assumed that was normal. Apologies for not reporting that!
~player of Gulphphunger
>Well.. that does sound like a bug :P
Ah. I had never used a bola before, so I just assumed that was normal. Apologies for not reporting that!
~player of Gulphphunger
ANOUSHKA
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 07:08 PM CST
>>Well.. that does sound like a bug :P
It's clearly too much fun to be a bug. Really!
It's clearly too much fun to be a bug. Really!
MELLIONM6
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 07:26 PM CST
It's not illogical that you could feasibly throw an item further than the distance you can instantly walk.
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
SHADOW7988
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 08:04 PM CST
>THROW MY BOLA AT RAT
Using this form of attack may cycle to the newest rat each time a new rat enters the room, thus prolonging the amount of time it takes to kill a rat.
THROW
Should just target the opponent you are currently facing.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Using this form of attack may cycle to the newest rat each time a new rat enters the room, thus prolonging the amount of time it takes to kill a rat.
THROW
Should just target the opponent you are currently facing.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
OLSONM6
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 08:06 PM CST
>Using this form of attack may cycle to the newest rat each time a new rat enters the room, thus prolonging the amount of time it takes to kill a rat.
This doesn't matter in 3.0. Rat 1 is always rat 1, until it leaves the room.
This doesn't matter in 3.0. Rat 1 is always rat 1, until it leaves the room.
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 08:24 PM CST
>>until it leaves the room.
Which if it was being thrown out of the room might have been happening.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Which if it was being thrown out of the room might have been happening.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
LEMAGRAG
Re: What should we be testing?
01/03/2013 09:27 PM CST
>Using this form of attack may cycle to the newest rat each time a new rat enters the room, thus prolonging the amount of time it takes to kill a rat.
>This doesn't matter in 3.0. Rat 1 is always rat 1, until it leaves the room.
For the most part there was only 1 rat, but when there was more than 1, I always made sure to attack the same one.
~player of Gulphphunger
>This doesn't matter in 3.0. Rat 1 is always rat 1, until it leaves the room.
For the most part there was only 1 rat, but when there was more than 1, I always made sure to attack the same one.
~player of Gulphphunger
TEVESHSZAT
Re: What should we be testing?
01/04/2013 09:32 AM CST
>>For the most part there was only 1 rat, but when there was more than 1, I always made sure to attack the same one.
Just to stress this point.
In DR 2.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "first X" and the former "first X" becomes the "second X"
In DR 3.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "second X" and the "first X" stays the "first X"
So you could LUNGE RAT all day long and not end up switching targets, because the first mob will always stay the first mob.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Just to stress this point.
In DR 2.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "first X" and the former "first X" becomes the "second X"
In DR 3.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "second X" and the "first X" stays the "first X"
So you could LUNGE RAT all day long and not end up switching targets, because the first mob will always stay the first mob.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
LEMAGRAG
Re: What should we be testing?
01/04/2013 08:02 PM CST
>>Just to stress this point.
>>In DR 2.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "first X" and the former "first X" becomes the "second X"
>>In DR 3.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "second X" and the "first X" stays the "first X"
>>So you could LUNGE RAT all day long and not end up switching targets, because the first mob will always stay the first mob.
I understand that. It was more a case of:
* 1 rat in a room.
* Throw bola, rat gets thrown to another room.
* Chase around until I find the rat.
* There are 2 rats in the room. ASSESS/LOOK to figure out which of the two rats was the one I was fighting.
* Engage damaged rat, THROW BOLA AT [damaged rat number] RAT
* Repeat the process the next time it gets tossed from the room.
~player of Gulphphunger
>>In DR 2.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "first X" and the former "first X" becomes the "second X"
>>In DR 3.0, when the first X enters a room, it is the "first X", and when the second X enters the room, it becomes the "second X" and the "first X" stays the "first X"
>>So you could LUNGE RAT all day long and not end up switching targets, because the first mob will always stay the first mob.
I understand that. It was more a case of:
* 1 rat in a room.
* Throw bola, rat gets thrown to another room.
* Chase around until I find the rat.
* There are 2 rats in the room. ASSESS/LOOK to figure out which of the two rats was the one I was fighting.
* Engage damaged rat, THROW BOLA AT [damaged rat number] RAT
* Repeat the process the next time it gets tossed from the room.
~player of Gulphphunger
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: What should we be testing?
01/05/2013 04:33 PM CST
Okay, so this time I rolled up a Kaldar and made him a Barbarian.
After I bought some extra pieces of leather armor, a target shield, and a sheath; I went ahead and jumped right into shipyard rats. Using my trusty wood-hilted broadsword I dispatched many foes while both parrying and blocking with the shield, receiving only a handful of hits and no significant injuries. I thought I was doing pretty awesome, so I went looking for another weapon to swing around. Jumped into the Clerics' Guild and grabbed a spiked ball and chain from the charity chest. RT and fatigue hits were a bit of a pain, but overall I was still able to use it well enough to gain some ranks with HB.
While using it, I almost tanked my fatigue and just stood still for awhile with 4 rats at melee. Not even a scratch. I'm finding being a noob in DR is pretty easy and enjoyable.
You're going to get a bad reputation if you go around pinching every spectral reaper you see.
After I bought some extra pieces of leather armor, a target shield, and a sheath; I went ahead and jumped right into shipyard rats. Using my trusty wood-hilted broadsword I dispatched many foes while both parrying and blocking with the shield, receiving only a handful of hits and no significant injuries. I thought I was doing pretty awesome, so I went looking for another weapon to swing around. Jumped into the Clerics' Guild and grabbed a spiked ball and chain from the charity chest. RT and fatigue hits were a bit of a pain, but overall I was still able to use it well enough to gain some ranks with HB.
While using it, I almost tanked my fatigue and just stood still for awhile with 4 rats at melee. Not even a scratch. I'm finding being a noob in DR is pretty easy and enjoyable.
You're going to get a bad reputation if you go around pinching every spectral reaper you see.
MELLIONM6
Re: What should we be testing?
01/05/2013 05:45 PM CST
Another Ataboy for Kodius then?
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: What should we be testing?
01/05/2013 05:55 PM CST
Pretty much. Made the Barbarian so I can run through a bunch of different weapon/armor set-ups. Just posting and saying I didn't notice anything yet.
Still going off of what he posted a bit ago:
>>Please continue to test at all skill ranges when possible
You're going to get a bad reputation if you go around pinching every spectral reaper you see.
Still going off of what he posted a bit ago:
>>Please continue to test at all skill ranges when possible
You're going to get a bad reputation if you go around pinching every spectral reaper you see.
DR-KODIUS
Re: What should we be testing?
01/05/2013 06:00 PM CST
Yup, thank you for the feedback.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
GERSTEINJ2
Re: What should we be testing?
01/06/2013 09:33 AM CST
ok, that sounds pretty good. However, there might be some that still have difficulty.
Revised experiment - make an Elothean instead of a Kaldar. enroll him as a trader instead of a barbarian, then go to rats. That will be the real test to see if weapons are trainable without the extreme fatigue hit I remember with that sort of character.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
Revised experiment - make an Elothean instead of a Kaldar. enroll him as a trader instead of a barbarian, then go to rats. That will be the real test to see if weapons are trainable without the extreme fatigue hit I remember with that sort of character.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
LHALLFIN
Re: What should we be testing?
01/06/2013 11:34 AM CST
>No.. not quite yet.
::deletes his post about bows and lays in wait::
As an aside, I've never liked stickbows since we became unable to parry with them, even then I hated the loss of a shield, every couple months I try again without much luck (I can train just fine, I just don't enjoy it). I was super pumped when you lowered the penalty for shield and loading, but I'm still just not feeling it.
I just cant help but feel that with the shield accuracy penalty, a penalty for not being at melee, a penalty for retreating (yeah I know hangback is coming), a penalty for snap shots (is it a penalty or just a non-bonus?), and the decrease in effectiveness that 100% evasion seems to be taking in 3.0, all combine to make stickbows even less attractive than in 2.0.
That said, keep up the great work you've been doing, and I'll keep hoping.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: What should we be testing?
01/06/2013 11:35 AM CST
>>ok, that sounds pretty good. However, there might be some that still have difficulty.
>>Revised experiment - make an Elothean instead of a Kaldar. enroll him as a trader instead of a barbarian, then go to rats. That will be the real test to see if weapons are trainable without the extreme fatigue hit I remember with that sort of character.
obviously if you stack the deck against yourself physically you will have a harder time swinging the big weapons. Pretty sure that is how it's meant to work otherwise choices are irrelevant. Some setups favor lighter weapons.
Not everything should be easy.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>Revised experiment - make an Elothean instead of a Kaldar. enroll him as a trader instead of a barbarian, then go to rats. That will be the real test to see if weapons are trainable without the extreme fatigue hit I remember with that sort of character.
obviously if you stack the deck against yourself physically you will have a harder time swinging the big weapons. Pretty sure that is how it's meant to work otherwise choices are irrelevant. Some setups favor lighter weapons.
Not everything should be easy.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: What should we be testing?
01/06/2013 11:51 AM CST
>ok, that sounds pretty good. However, there might be some that still have difficulty.
>Revised experiment - make an Elothean instead of a Kaldar. enroll him as a trader instead of a barbarian, then go to rats. That will be the real test to see if weapons are trainable without the extreme fatigue hit I remember with that sort of character.
Well the idea I had was to pretty much just go with whatever the popular guild of choice for the given race. Kaldar wasn't really in the top 3 races for Barbarians, but I approached that one like a new player IE: big build = combat heavy guild. Likewise, with those guilds, my TDPS were dumped right into physical stats which might have given me quite a leg up when fighting.
I do plan on making an Elothean and a Halfling, probably make them trader and thief respectively. I'm curious to check the fatigue hits for the smaller races, and also seeing what I can actually do with an Elothean since I've never played one... ever. I'm going to dump these TDPs into mentals for the trader and mostly the thief, so I should be at the bottom of the curve as far as physical stats go.
But yes, it's pretty much just like Codiax said:
>obviously if you stack the deck against yourself physically you will have a harder time
That is still as true as it ever was. Thus, I'm not trying to purposefully stack the odds against me as anyone can see. Just trying to get as close to a genuine "new player/returning player" experience as I can. That said, I have known some players who really did poorly train both stats and skills. So, maybe I should go ahead and make a "100%-doing-it-wrong" character and see just how hard of a time I can make it.
You're going to get a bad reputation if you go around pinching every spectral reaper you see.
>Revised experiment - make an Elothean instead of a Kaldar. enroll him as a trader instead of a barbarian, then go to rats. That will be the real test to see if weapons are trainable without the extreme fatigue hit I remember with that sort of character.
Well the idea I had was to pretty much just go with whatever the popular guild of choice for the given race. Kaldar wasn't really in the top 3 races for Barbarians, but I approached that one like a new player IE: big build = combat heavy guild. Likewise, with those guilds, my TDPS were dumped right into physical stats which might have given me quite a leg up when fighting.
I do plan on making an Elothean and a Halfling, probably make them trader and thief respectively. I'm curious to check the fatigue hits for the smaller races, and also seeing what I can actually do with an Elothean since I've never played one... ever. I'm going to dump these TDPs into mentals for the trader and mostly the thief, so I should be at the bottom of the curve as far as physical stats go.
But yes, it's pretty much just like Codiax said:
>obviously if you stack the deck against yourself physically you will have a harder time
That is still as true as it ever was. Thus, I'm not trying to purposefully stack the odds against me as anyone can see. Just trying to get as close to a genuine "new player/returning player" experience as I can. That said, I have known some players who really did poorly train both stats and skills. So, maybe I should go ahead and make a "100%-doing-it-wrong" character and see just how hard of a time I can make it.
You're going to get a bad reputation if you go around pinching every spectral reaper you see.
DR-KODIUS
Re: What should we be testing?
01/06/2013 11:56 AM CST
>>I just cant help but feel that with the shield accuracy penalty, a penalty for not being at melee, a penalty for retreating (yeah I know hangback is coming), a penalty for snap shots (is it a penalty or just a non-bonus?), and the decrease in effectiveness that 100% evasion seems to be taking in 3.0, all combine to make stickbows even less attractive than in 2.0.
Shield Accuracy Penalty - Small penalty. Was large before. This is better in 3.0.
A penalty for not being at melee - Hmm? I'm not sure where this came from. I don't think one exists.
A penalty for retreating - Necessary to prevent archers from being invulnerable. Entirely needed. It starts out small, however, and Hangback 3.0 should alleviate this entirely for PvE.
A penalty for snap shots - Not changed from 2.0. Can be ignored if you have boosters enough to reliably hit with snap shots.
A decrease in evasion effectiveness - In 2.0 evasion was at least 60% more effective than any other defense. This had to change.
In exchange for these penalties, shield is now 70-80% more viable as a defense when using a stick bow (than in 2.0) and I am also considering allowing people with bows to parry with a penalty.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Shield Accuracy Penalty - Small penalty. Was large before. This is better in 3.0.
A penalty for not being at melee - Hmm? I'm not sure where this came from. I don't think one exists.
A penalty for retreating - Necessary to prevent archers from being invulnerable. Entirely needed. It starts out small, however, and Hangback 3.0 should alleviate this entirely for PvE.
A penalty for snap shots - Not changed from 2.0. Can be ignored if you have boosters enough to reliably hit with snap shots.
A decrease in evasion effectiveness - In 2.0 evasion was at least 60% more effective than any other defense. This had to change.
In exchange for these penalties, shield is now 70-80% more viable as a defense when using a stick bow (than in 2.0) and I am also considering allowing people with bows to parry with a penalty.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
LHALLFIN
Re: What should we be testing?
01/06/2013 12:02 PM CST
Thanks for the post Kod-man.
I know you're really working at it.
I wana be on team stickbows, I really do...
: p
I really thought I read about people talking about getting a penalty if they arent at melee, but maybe they just mean the retreating hit, which hangback will help and I am very much looking forward to trying out.
