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COLEMANJ
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/11/2017 11:57 AM CDT
Where's <insert name of Doug's wizard>?
Oh, him? He went into the confluence as a water elemental, wandered over to the fireside.
That sounds awesome, how'd he do?
He evaporated.
Oh... brutal.
ARCHSENEX
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/11/2017 12:04 PM CDT
Beats being a dry ice elemental. at first its cool, but then its sublime!
hunger nakes me punny.
BRANDTJRT
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/11/2017 04:43 PM CDT
>>Beats being a dry ice elemental. at first its cool, but then its sublime!
You win the wizard forum. Have an extra elemental lore as a prize!
_ _ _
Wyrom gestures at you, causing you to explode.
You win the wizard forum. Have an extra elemental lore as a prize!
_ _ _
Wyrom gestures at you, causing you to explode.
LADYFLEUR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/11/2017 04:58 PM CDT
>We don't balance around allowing specific professions the ability to solo in the Scatter.
Technically, a rift crawler is plane 4 and cerebralites are also found on plane 4. Are these intended to be "Scatter-balanced" despite being found outside the Scatter?
Technically, a rift crawler is plane 4 and cerebralites are also found on plane 4. Are these intended to be "Scatter-balanced" despite being found outside the Scatter?
LADYFLEUR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 02:24 PM CDT
I failed the 13 bolt EBP lottery today with this plane 4 creature (not Scatter):
>[The Rift]
Spectres crowd around you. Their ghostly hands reach out to touch you, seeking the warmth and vitality only the living have. But as each grasping figure makes contact it draws back, wailing in pain as if burned. Still the others seek to feel you, expressions of hunger on their haunted faces. You also see an enormous rift crawler.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler moves at the last moment to evade the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>A fallen crusader trots in, her spectral armor clattering with each stride.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler barely dodges the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +472 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +5 = +142
... and hit for 25 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
A fallen crusader swings a gold-spiked black morning star at you!
AS: +511 vs DS: +619 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +54 = -20
A clean miss.
The guiding force leaves a fallen crusader.
>Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +472 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +42 = +179
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
The rift crawler is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
Nearly insensible, the rift crawler desperately evades the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>A fallen crusader's movements return to normal as a silvery infusion fades from around her.
>An enormous rift crawler shakes off the stun.
>A fallen crusader swings a gold-spiked black morning star at you!
AS: +436 vs DS: +619 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +53 = -96
A clean miss.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler evades the bolt by a hair!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler evades the bolt by inches!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>A fallen crusader trots in, her spectral armor clattering with each stride.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler barely dodges the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +472 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +19 = +156
... and hit for 34 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
>Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +84 = +239
... and hit for 87 points of damage!
The rift crawler is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +416 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +14 = +207
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
An enormous rift crawler shakes off the stun.
>
An unearthly moaning echoes around you, dispelling any sense of peace and security from the area.
>
A fallen crusader emits a low, unearthly moan!
An unearthly moaning echoes around you, dispelling any sense of peace and security from the area.
A fallen crusader swings a gold-spiked black morning star at you!
AS: +436 vs DS: +619 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +90 = -59
A clean miss.
>Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler dodges just in the nick of time!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +436 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +78 = +251
... and hit for 113 points of damage!
Massive blow to temple drops the rift crawler in its tracks!
As the rift crawler dies, the beast's massive body curls in on itself, convulses once, and stills.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>loot
You search the rift crawler.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had nothing else of value.
The rift crawler's translucent outer husk melts away, its smoky inner core disappearing in greyed ribbons on the air.
And then it didn't even have any loot. :\ This is the kind of extreme variance there is in using 515+bolts, which is something a spiritual pure would never face with warding spells. It's also the kind of annoyance, tedium, and all around underwhelming feeling in hunting that is completely lost just looking at a high level single number of mean kills done in automated fashion.
In another annoying example, here I wasted 2 bolts on this crawler before it up and poofed because it wasn't dead at second 0. This is why a creature being dead at second 0 is materially different and more powerful than being dead BY second 3:
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler moves at the last moment to evade the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Wait 1 sec.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler dodges just in the nick of time!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>In a pitch that might shatter glass, a sound emits from the crawler's open maw, and the air distorts and rips like a seam stretched too tight. The creature squirms its way toward the opening and disappears within the whirling anomaly. In one soundless motion, the rip reseals, changing the pressure of the surrounding air.
>[The Rift]
Spectres crowd around you. Their ghostly hands reach out to touch you, seeking the warmth and vitality only the living have. But as each grasping figure makes contact it draws back, wailing in pain as if burned. Still the others seek to feel you, expressions of hunger on their haunted faces. You also see an enormous rift crawler.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler moves at the last moment to evade the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>A fallen crusader trots in, her spectral armor clattering with each stride.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler barely dodges the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +472 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +5 = +142
... and hit for 25 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
A fallen crusader swings a gold-spiked black morning star at you!
AS: +511 vs DS: +619 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +54 = -20
A clean miss.
The guiding force leaves a fallen crusader.
>Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +472 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +42 = +179
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
The rift crawler is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
Nearly insensible, the rift crawler desperately evades the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>A fallen crusader's movements return to normal as a silvery infusion fades from around her.
>An enormous rift crawler shakes off the stun.
>A fallen crusader swings a gold-spiked black morning star at you!
AS: +436 vs DS: +619 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +53 = -96
A clean miss.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler evades the bolt by a hair!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler evades the bolt by inches!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>A fallen crusader trots in, her spectral armor clattering with each stride.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler barely dodges the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +472 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +19 = +156
... and hit for 34 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
>Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +84 = +239
... and hit for 87 points of damage!
The rift crawler is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +416 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +14 = +207
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
An enormous rift crawler shakes off the stun.
>
An unearthly moaning echoes around you, dispelling any sense of peace and security from the area.
>
A fallen crusader emits a low, unearthly moan!
An unearthly moaning echoes around you, dispelling any sense of peace and security from the area.
A fallen crusader swings a gold-spiked black morning star at you!
AS: +436 vs DS: +619 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +90 = -59
A clean miss.
>Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler dodges just in the nick of time!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
AS: +575 vs DS: +436 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +78 = +251
... and hit for 113 points of damage!
Massive blow to temple drops the rift crawler in its tracks!
As the rift crawler dies, the beast's massive body curls in on itself, convulses once, and stills.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>loot
You search the rift crawler.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had nothing else of value.
The rift crawler's translucent outer husk melts away, its smoky inner core disappearing in greyed ribbons on the air.
And then it didn't even have any loot. :\ This is the kind of extreme variance there is in using 515+bolts, which is something a spiritual pure would never face with warding spells. It's also the kind of annoyance, tedium, and all around underwhelming feeling in hunting that is completely lost just looking at a high level single number of mean kills done in automated fashion.
In another annoying example, here I wasted 2 bolts on this crawler before it up and poofed because it wasn't dead at second 0. This is why a creature being dead at second 0 is materially different and more powerful than being dead BY second 3:
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler moves at the last moment to evade the bolt!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 510
Wait 1 sec.
>inc 510
Swirling motes of light coalesce into a glowing pink rose framed within a sparkling silver heart as you prepare Hurl Boulder.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an enormous rift crawler.
You hurl a large boulder at an enormous rift crawler!
The rift crawler dodges just in the nick of time!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>In a pitch that might shatter glass, a sound emits from the crawler's open maw, and the air distorts and rips like a seam stretched too tight. The creature squirms its way toward the opening and disappears within the whirling anomaly. In one soundless motion, the rip reseals, changing the pressure of the surrounding air.
KRAKII
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 03:09 PM CDT
Not to pour fuel on this fire, but in the first three triplets the first two were null (EBP negation) and all of the damage arrived in the third...
...which would be fundamentally identical to using 'channel' for a single cast.
(Where 'identical' refers to vulnerability [3s of time] and damage inflicted; it would represent a savings of 66% of the mana spent, plus the 15 spent for RapidFire.)
There would be one problem with it, though, so...
Question for the GMs:
- if Channeled bolt/ball spells are still subject to EBP, would you be willing to consider removing (or greatly reducing) the likelihood of EBP
for them? (Because of hard RT, in a non-Guarded stance.)
For that matter, why would a ball spell--by nature, "large," maybe hitting 15+ targets...--be able to be Evaded or Dodged or Blocked, anyhow?
Question for LadyFleur:
- are there other targets who are vulnerable to crit results available, that you would be willing to hunt? (I noticed that the worst that happened to that crawler was a stun that got shaken off, and I learned a long time ago as a weapon-swinger not to go hunting with my crit-reliant characters, in creatures that aren't vulnerable to crits.)
...which would be fundamentally identical to using 'channel' for a single cast.
(Where 'identical' refers to vulnerability [3s of time] and damage inflicted; it would represent a savings of 66% of the mana spent, plus the 15 spent for RapidFire.)
There would be one problem with it, though, so...
Question for the GMs:
- if Channeled bolt/ball spells are still subject to EBP, would you be willing to consider removing (or greatly reducing) the likelihood of EBP
for them? (Because of hard RT, in a non-Guarded stance.)
For that matter, why would a ball spell--by nature, "large," maybe hitting 15+ targets...--be able to be Evaded or Dodged or Blocked, anyhow?
Question for LadyFleur:
- are there other targets who are vulnerable to crit results available, that you would be willing to hunt? (I noticed that the worst that happened to that crawler was a stun that got shaken off, and I learned a long time ago as a weapon-swinger not to go hunting with my crit-reliant characters, in creatures that aren't vulnerable to crits.)
ROBLAR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 03:14 PM CDT
They are vulnerable to crits.
LADYFLEUR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 04:12 PM CDT
>Not to pour fuel on this fire, but in the first three triplets the first two were null (EBP negation) and all of the damage arrived in the third... ...which would be fundamentally identical to using 'channel' for a single cast.
It's easy to say "this is what you should have done", but that's why it's a lottery and not reliable. CHANNEL is not reliable as it puts the entire lottery roll, still subject to EBP, in the same basket. I could just as easily have guaranteed wasting 9 seconds with CHANNELing to achieve an improved chance of hitting a vital location on the first damage. I'm never going to do that as long as CHANNEL is a single attempt/cycle for the same 3 seconds. 240 handles the entire problem without much greater cast/kill reliability and delivers 6-8 cycles of chances for the same time.
It's easy to say "this is what you should have done", but that's why it's a lottery and not reliable. CHANNEL is not reliable as it puts the entire lottery roll, still subject to EBP, in the same basket. I could just as easily have guaranteed wasting 9 seconds with CHANNELing to achieve an improved chance of hitting a vital location on the first damage. I'm never going to do that as long as CHANNEL is a single attempt/cycle for the same 3 seconds. 240 handles the entire problem without much greater cast/kill reliability and delivers 6-8 cycles of chances for the same time.
KRAKII
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 04:22 PM CDT
EBP concerns would be obviated--or at least lessened--if the GMs addressed that with channeled spells, though, so that'd be why I asked about it. :)
And another idea I had put forward some little time (in the last 2-5 years, I would think) ago, was to use <something, could be channel or evoke or whatever> with a ball-type spell, in order to focus all of the Lore+MOC splashy flares onto JUST that one target.
So, you've got Lore to make your Fireball able to hit 8+9==17 targets? Die roll says... 12!
You've got MOC to let your splashes hit +2? Die roll says... 3! (== 5)
You get 5 splashy-crits against Just That One Target you cast (incanted, evoked, channeled, whatever) at. Because you're just that good.
And another idea I had put forward some little time (in the last 2-5 years, I would think) ago, was to use <something, could be channel or evoke or whatever> with a ball-type spell, in order to focus all of the Lore+MOC splashy flares onto JUST that one target.
So, you've got Lore to make your Fireball able to hit 8+9==17 targets? Die roll says... 12!
You've got MOC to let your splashes hit +2? Die roll says... 3! (== 5)
You get 5 splashy-crits against Just That One Target you cast (incanted, evoked, channeled, whatever) at. Because you're just that good.
LADYFLEUR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 04:28 PM CDT
I don't agree with addressing EBP via CHANNEL alone as that would unbalance bolts at a pre-cap level. It's much easier pre-cap to achieve a successful AS/DS bolt resolution than to ward a creature to the same level of effectiveness.
MOC is insanely expensive for a pure, but I would be willing to have it as part of a solution only if that would actually allow us to raise the power ceiling of what's achievable.
MOC is insanely expensive for a pure, but I would be willing to have it as part of a solution only if that would actually allow us to raise the power ceiling of what's achievable.
ARCHSENEX
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 05:22 PM CDT
Solely pointing out on the "focused m-ball" idea - Given that ball spells naturally are able to hit as many as 8 targets without lore training, while yes it is weighted to lower numbers, your odds of getting "at least one extra" without lore training are still very very good, and you still have the guarantee at a single MOC.
However, at the upper end, being able to get 8 to possibly 16 m-balls would make this INSANE compared to Elemental Overload as it was presented.
So while the EBP redux for Ball spells might be something to discuss, Focused MStrike equivalent probably needs some significant refinement before it would be considered, and I think we'd get Overload before focused ball spells
However, at the upper end, being able to get 8 to possibly 16 m-balls would make this INSANE compared to Elemental Overload as it was presented.
So while the EBP redux for Ball spells might be something to discuss, Focused MStrike equivalent probably needs some significant refinement before it would be considered, and I think we'd get Overload before focused ball spells
DOUG
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 06:31 PM CDT
I'm not sure how badly the EBP system affects wizards that vary tactics. I do know that I'd hate to lose my own EBP abilities because bolts are not as effective by themselves. Tradeoffs. ;/
Head's up to other wizards preparing to brave the Plane 4 / Scatter areas - 512 / 912 are your friends. Your good, good friends.
Doug
Head's up to other wizards preparing to brave the Plane 4 / Scatter areas - 512 / 912 are your friends. Your good, good friends.
Doug
LADYFLEUR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 06:34 PM CDT
More than one wizard in here has posted that they would like cleaner offensive options/tools. Estild has said any solution would not work with 515 either, so that should be sufficient to keep the other tools intact that do function with 515 (512/912).
ARCHSENEX
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 06:50 PM CDT
I'm still curious if one of the other number-crunchers / theory crafters could weigh in on E-Overload's effectiveness. It makes an incentive to channel bolts, so I'd really like to know if anybody has a reason why it wouldn't meet needs.
LADYFLEUR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 07:35 PM CDT
EBP is still a factor. If it's theoretically one bolt with multi-cast cycles, would each of those be individually subject to EBP or is it the all eggs in the one attempt basket again?
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 09:15 PM CDT
>For that matter, why would a ball spell--by nature, "large," maybe hitting 15+ targets...--be able to be Evaded or Dodged or Blocked, anyhow?
Because apparently our bolts, even lightning, travel at roughly the same speed as Bullet Bill.
https://i0.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/bulletbill.gif
~ Methais
Because apparently our bolts, even lightning, travel at roughly the same speed as Bullet Bill.
https://i0.wp.com/espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/bulletbill.gif
~ Methais
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 09:22 PM CDT
>However, at the upper end, being able to get 8 to possibly 16 m-balls would make this INSANE compared to Elemental Overload as it was presented.
Pre-nerf DC GS3 sorcerer gestures at a csetairi.
CS: +666 - TD: +489 + CvA: +25 + d100: +74 == +276
Warding failed!
A csetairi is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... and hits for 132 points of damage!
... 55 points of damage!
Right arm shattered by an extremely well placed hit!
The csetairi is stunned!
... 55 points of damage!
Icy blast freezes the csetairi's right hand!
... 45 points of damage!
Heavy shock to chest illuminates ribcage. Cool!
... 45 points of damage!
Visible wisps of electricity shoot up left arm. Youch!
... 55 points of damage!
Left arm fractured by an icy blast!
... 50 points of damage!
... 50 points of damage!
Nasty burns to right arm. Gonna need lots of butter.
The csetairi shrieks as she falls to the ground and cradles her mangled right arm!
... 50 points of damage!
... 55 points of damage!
Flames burn hole in chest exposing ribs!
... 45 points of damage!
Burst of flames char chest a crispy black.
... 45 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left eye incinerates eyelid. Gruesome.
... 55 points of damage!
Electric blast goes right to the heart! Fibrillation can be fun.
The csetairi writhes in agony and dies.
The opalescent aura fades from around a csetairi.
The brilliant aura fades away from a csetairi.
The wall of force disappears from around a csetairi.
A csetairi appears less confident.
A dark shadow passes away from a csetairi.
~ Methais
Pre-nerf DC GS3 sorcerer gestures at a csetairi.
CS: +666 - TD: +489 + CvA: +25 + d100: +74 == +276
Warding failed!
A csetairi is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... and hits for 132 points of damage!
... 55 points of damage!
Right arm shattered by an extremely well placed hit!
The csetairi is stunned!
... 55 points of damage!
Icy blast freezes the csetairi's right hand!
... 45 points of damage!
Heavy shock to chest illuminates ribcage. Cool!
... 45 points of damage!
Visible wisps of electricity shoot up left arm. Youch!
... 55 points of damage!
Left arm fractured by an icy blast!
... 50 points of damage!
... 50 points of damage!
Nasty burns to right arm. Gonna need lots of butter.
The csetairi shrieks as she falls to the ground and cradles her mangled right arm!
... 50 points of damage!
... 55 points of damage!
Flames burn hole in chest exposing ribs!
... 45 points of damage!
Burst of flames char chest a crispy black.
... 45 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left eye incinerates eyelid. Gruesome.
... 55 points of damage!
Electric blast goes right to the heart! Fibrillation can be fun.
The csetairi writhes in agony and dies.
The opalescent aura fades from around a csetairi.
The brilliant aura fades away from a csetairi.
The wall of force disappears from around a csetairi.
A csetairi appears less confident.
A dark shadow passes away from a csetairi.
~ Methais
MEKK1
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/12/2017 09:48 PM CDT
<Because apparently our bolts, even lightning, travel at roughly the same speed as Bullet Bill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/13/2017 11:44 AM CDT
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw
Everything makes sense now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpmvFK02jY8
~ Methais
Everything makes sense now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpmvFK02jY8
~ Methais
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/13/2017 05:54 PM CDT
Now I see why Estild likes water lore so much...
[The Crossroads - ]
The soft white mist that seems to sparkle with a faint glow lazily reaches this far and continues to extend in every direction as far as you can see, and several new portals open up before you, leading to mysterious places. Which will you approach next? You also see a brightly glowing rainbow leading to Necios' Observation Deck, a large green sewer pipe jutting out of the ground with the words 'Mestys's Construction Site' stamped around the rim and a vortex of water leading to Estild's habitat.
Obvious paths: northwest
[Estild's Underwater Dome - ]
Various aquatic life forms can be seen swimming in every direction from within the confines of this dome. All that separates the vast amounts of water and the inner environment is a translucent sphere. Numerous multihued cushions cover the floor, offering rest to weary travelers visiting this tranquil habitat. You also see the Subarashi disk, a vortex of water leading back to the Crossroads, a rotted oak sea chest with Mestys's murmaider list on it and a crystalline scrying pool.
Obvious paths: none
Good news for empaths though...
>l pool
Gazing intently into the scrying pool, the surface ripples as an image begins to form...
A battle-scarred Empath stands before a horde of orcs. With a sharp motion, she incants a spell and an orc is ravaged by spiritual forces before crumbling to the ground.
A foreign thought brushes your mind with "Light Catalyst (1117)".
The Empath then draws back for a brief moment before incanting again. A pure white orb appears at the center of the horde. It shimmers briefly, then expands in a torrent of energy, decimating the army.
The foreign thought returns with "Explosion (1118)".
I lol'd
~ Methais
[The Crossroads - ]
The soft white mist that seems to sparkle with a faint glow lazily reaches this far and continues to extend in every direction as far as you can see, and several new portals open up before you, leading to mysterious places. Which will you approach next? You also see a brightly glowing rainbow leading to Necios' Observation Deck, a large green sewer pipe jutting out of the ground with the words 'Mestys's Construction Site' stamped around the rim and a vortex of water leading to Estild's habitat.
Obvious paths: northwest
[Estild's Underwater Dome - ]
Various aquatic life forms can be seen swimming in every direction from within the confines of this dome. All that separates the vast amounts of water and the inner environment is a translucent sphere. Numerous multihued cushions cover the floor, offering rest to weary travelers visiting this tranquil habitat. You also see the Subarashi disk, a vortex of water leading back to the Crossroads, a rotted oak sea chest with Mestys's murmaider list on it and a crystalline scrying pool.
Obvious paths: none
Good news for empaths though...
>l pool
Gazing intently into the scrying pool, the surface ripples as an image begins to form...
A battle-scarred Empath stands before a horde of orcs. With a sharp motion, she incants a spell and an orc is ravaged by spiritual forces before crumbling to the ground.
A foreign thought brushes your mind with "Light Catalyst (1117)".
The Empath then draws back for a brief moment before incanting again. A pure white orb appears at the center of the horde. It shimmers briefly, then expands in a torrent of energy, decimating the army.
The foreign thought returns with "Explosion (1118)".
I lol'd
~ Methais
LADYFLEUR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/13/2017 05:57 PM CDT
Haha, that is pretty funny.
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/13/2017 06:21 PM CDT
One of many examples of why being dead on second 0 vs. second 3 matters...
[Elemental Confluence - 23310]
Heavy and oppressive, the air is as thick as mud and nearly as suffocating. A nearby volcanic event illuminates the area in a brilliant mixture of deep scarlet and orange, with brief flashes of intense yellow. Unusual geometric shapes of orange-brown earth protrude from the ground, their designs carved by the divergent weather conditions. You also see a huge earth elemental.
Obvious paths: north, southeast, northwest
>inc 903
Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Minor Water...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a huge earth elemental.
You hurl a seething blast of steam at a huge earth elemental!
AS: +496 vs DS: +269 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +66 = +315
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Scalding steam blisters right arm with painful splotches.
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 903
A young elven child arrives, following you.
A huge earth elemental pounds at a young elven child with a heavy earthen fist!
AS: +440 vs DS: +21 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +70 = +527
... and hits for 246 points of damage!
Massive blow punches a hole through the elven child's chest!
The child falls to the ground, dead!
[You have failed your current Adventurer's Guild task.]
>inc 903
Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Minor Water...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a huge earth elemental.
You hurl a seething blast of steam at a huge earth elemental!
AS: +484 vs DS: +233 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +95 = +368
... and hit for 118 points of damage!
Steaming strike turns lungs to pudding!
Your runestaff resonates with an extremely high-pitched sound and causes your skin and muscles to harden!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Minor Water...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a huge earth elemental.
You hurl a seething blast of steam at a huge earth elemental!
AS: +496 vs DS: +229 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +62 = +351
... and hit for 112 points of damage!
Exposure to broiling vapors renders left leg barely usable!
You sense a surge of essence being dragged from the elemental, only to dissipate as your multicolored soulstone overflows with power.
The earth elemental rumbles in agony as it teeters for a moment, then tumbles to the ground with a thundering crash!
The earth elemental suddenly ceases all movement.
The silvery luminescence fades from around a huge earth elemental.
The bright luminescence fades from around a huge earth elemental.
A huge earth elemental appears somehow different.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a huge earth elemental.
A huge earth elemental glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves a huge earth elemental.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
This happens pretty much all the time in there.
~ Methais
[Elemental Confluence - 23310]
Heavy and oppressive, the air is as thick as mud and nearly as suffocating. A nearby volcanic event illuminates the area in a brilliant mixture of deep scarlet and orange, with brief flashes of intense yellow. Unusual geometric shapes of orange-brown earth protrude from the ground, their designs carved by the divergent weather conditions. You also see a huge earth elemental.
Obvious paths: north, southeast, northwest
>inc 903
Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Minor Water...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a huge earth elemental.
You hurl a seething blast of steam at a huge earth elemental!
AS: +496 vs DS: +269 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +66 = +315
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Scalding steam blisters right arm with painful splotches.
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>inc 903
A young elven child arrives, following you.
A huge earth elemental pounds at a young elven child with a heavy earthen fist!
AS: +440 vs DS: +21 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +70 = +527
... and hits for 246 points of damage!
Massive blow punches a hole through the elven child's chest!
The child falls to the ground, dead!
[You have failed your current Adventurer's Guild task.]
>inc 903
Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Minor Water...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a huge earth elemental.
You hurl a seething blast of steam at a huge earth elemental!
AS: +484 vs DS: +233 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +95 = +368
... and hit for 118 points of damage!
Steaming strike turns lungs to pudding!
Your runestaff resonates with an extremely high-pitched sound and causes your skin and muscles to harden!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Minor Water...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a huge earth elemental.
You hurl a seething blast of steam at a huge earth elemental!
AS: +496 vs DS: +229 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +62 = +351
... and hit for 112 points of damage!
Exposure to broiling vapors renders left leg barely usable!
You sense a surge of essence being dragged from the elemental, only to dissipate as your multicolored soulstone overflows with power.
The earth elemental rumbles in agony as it teeters for a moment, then tumbles to the ground with a thundering crash!
The earth elemental suddenly ceases all movement.
The silvery luminescence fades from around a huge earth elemental.
The bright luminescence fades from around a huge earth elemental.
A huge earth elemental appears somehow different.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a huge earth elemental.
A huge earth elemental glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves a huge earth elemental.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
This happens pretty much all the time in there.
~ Methais
VANKRASN39
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/13/2017 06:24 PM CDT
is the earth elemental immune to all disabling spells?
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/13/2017 07:05 PM CDT
>is the earth elemental immune to all disabling spells?
Everything in the Confluence is. The only exception I've found is that earth elementals can be knocked down with Tonis Bolt, which requires air lore to unlock and isn't a guaranteed knockdown on hit. It doesn't work on anything else in there though, just earth.
512 works except vs. fire, lava, and steam elementals (which are on the other side), but it still would have required 2 casts of it to prevent the earth elemental from attacking, which would have made no difference because the kid got wrecked immediately after my first cast.
~ Methais
Everything in the Confluence is. The only exception I've found is that earth elementals can be knocked down with Tonis Bolt, which requires air lore to unlock and isn't a guaranteed knockdown on hit. It doesn't work on anything else in there though, just earth.
512 works except vs. fire, lava, and steam elementals (which are on the other side), but it still would have required 2 casts of it to prevent the earth elemental from attacking, which would have made no difference because the kid got wrecked immediately after my first cast.
~ Methais
CANDIDE
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/13/2017 08:33 PM CDT
Even with a 524 CS I use open 504 rather well in the confluence. That plus rapid fire bolt is all you really need in the confluence. IT for sure is a wizard area.
GBB
GBB
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/15/2017 02:04 PM CDT
>Even with a 524 CS I use open 504 rather well in the confluence. That plus rapid fire bolt is all you really need in the confluence. IT for sure is a wizard area.
I usually open with 512 because stuff loves to run when they get low. I'm not complaining about the Confluence itself. I was just using the kid getting wrecked as a general example of how stuff being dead on second 0 vs. second 3 makes a difference, as some people try to argue there's no difference. Kid would have still been dead regardless of what was used as an opener unless it resulted in the critter being dead.
Which is why I usually skip rescue bounties in there.
~ Methais
I usually open with 512 because stuff loves to run when they get low. I'm not complaining about the Confluence itself. I was just using the kid getting wrecked as a general example of how stuff being dead on second 0 vs. second 3 makes a difference, as some people try to argue there's no difference. Kid would have still been dead regardless of what was used as an opener unless it resulted in the critter being dead.
Which is why I usually skip rescue bounties in there.
~ Methais
ALLENM20
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/18/2017 03:42 AM CDT
Tremors seems pretty similar to paladins 1614 in regards to the EBP penalty it applies to mobs. I pretty much cast it on every single mob because it works so well.
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
AMCPENS
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/22/2017 09:27 PM CDT
| But that doesn't invalidate that casting 3 high level spells in 3 seconds of castRT achieves the same end result (a dead creature in 3 seconds of castRT), and Rapid Fire (515) allows for that. |
| -GameMaster Estild |
I beg to differ! you can not cast 3 high level spells in 3 seconds with 515. Since 515 gives a hard 3 second cast rt. casting 3 high level spells (lets say 510) with 515 takes 6 seconds.
3 seconds (515) + 1 second(410) +1 seconds(519) +1 second(510) = 6 seconds. I for one, can not justify casting it until I'm in the room with a critter that I want to kill. Maybe someone who is much more heavily into EMC (reduced/removed cooldown)than I am could justify it, but i sure can't.
I am still outraged that rapid fire has a cooldown. Before the great nerf of January 2016, I hunted with rapid fire a lot. I cast it on myself, and when it wore off, i recast it.
I completely understand putting in the 1 second castime, it was justified. The cooldown makes it nearly useless to me (an uncapped wizard).
Heck, just reducing the cast time of 515 to the 1 second would make it a little bit useful to me.
Sorry, I don't rant a lot, but this is something that I still get steamed about.
-Rumbletum
CURTIS
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/22/2017 10:40 PM CDT
Why can't you just peer ahead of where you're going and cast 515 just before entering a fight?
CURTIS
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/22/2017 10:41 PM CDT
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
<<Sorry, I don't rant a lot, but this is something that I still get steamed about.
I see what you did there. ;)
<<Sorry, I don't rant a lot, but this is something that I still get steamed about.
I see what you did there. ;)
KRAKII
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/23/2017 09:05 AM CDT
240, the spell most often held up for comparison, also comes with its own castRT, and has a duration only half (1/2) as long.
(And, of course, there's that whole "2-2/3 times the mana cost", too.)
True, it doesn't have a cooldown.
(And, of course, there's that whole "2-2/3 times the mana cost", too.)
True, it doesn't have a cooldown.
COLEMANJ
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 07:32 AM CDT
>I am still outraged that rapid fire has a cooldown. Before the great nerf of January 2016, I hunted with rapid fire a lot. I cast it on myself, and when it wore off, i recast it.
Since usually, at least in certain circles, this is compared to "well-post cap," I'll post this from the wiki.
At 100 ranks, the duration is 45 seconds, and at 200 ranks, there is no cooldown. When cast on other characters, Rapid Fire uses the target's EMC skill to determine the recovery period.
DRUMPEL
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 08:27 AM CDT
>At 100 ranks, the duration is 45 seconds, and at 200 ranks, there is no cooldown. When cast on other characters, Rapid Fire uses the target's EMC skill to determine the recovery period.
Self cast should have no cool down. Cast upon others, they should be restricted by a cool down and it should not be able to be reduced to 0 seconds.
Self cast = no cool down
Cast on others - @ 200 ranks EMC there'd still be a 30 second cool down and it cannot be trained off any further.
The spell shouldn't be based around the fact that it is constantly usable and reliable for wizards post-cap. I may actually make use of the spell if there was no cool down, but I'm not waiting 45 seconds to be able to recast it with my wizard. The spell isn't reliable if he can't constantly make use of it. Cast it and then waiting 45 seconds before he can cast it again once the spell duration ends, that's not reliable.
If GMs want to be able to say a wizard can readily be "comparable" to a class that can utilize 240, they need to remove the cool down on 515 for wizards self cast. Clerics/empaths don't have any kind of duration restriction for casting 240. Sure, it costs 40 mana and only lasts 30 seconds, but they can cast again as soon as the duration ends. Only a wizard with 200 EMC can cast rapid fire again as soon as the duration ends and that usually means a wizard that can do this is post-cap.
-Drumpel
Self cast should have no cool down. Cast upon others, they should be restricted by a cool down and it should not be able to be reduced to 0 seconds.
Self cast = no cool down
Cast on others - @ 200 ranks EMC there'd still be a 30 second cool down and it cannot be trained off any further.
The spell shouldn't be based around the fact that it is constantly usable and reliable for wizards post-cap. I may actually make use of the spell if there was no cool down, but I'm not waiting 45 seconds to be able to recast it with my wizard. The spell isn't reliable if he can't constantly make use of it. Cast it and then waiting 45 seconds before he can cast it again once the spell duration ends, that's not reliable.
If GMs want to be able to say a wizard can readily be "comparable" to a class that can utilize 240, they need to remove the cool down on 515 for wizards self cast. Clerics/empaths don't have any kind of duration restriction for casting 240. Sure, it costs 40 mana and only lasts 30 seconds, but they can cast again as soon as the duration ends. Only a wizard with 200 EMC can cast rapid fire again as soon as the duration ends and that usually means a wizard that can do this is post-cap.
-Drumpel
DOUG
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 08:44 AM CDT
We also often leave out the fact that you can still use the spell on cool-down, if you want. You just pay extra mana per spell.
Choices, choices.
Doug
Choices, choices.
Doug
DRUMPEL
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 09:41 AM CDT
>We also often leave out the fact that you can still use the spell on cool-down, if you want. You just pay extra mana per spell.
Why? More punishment is all it is.
Remove the cool down.
-Drumpel
Why? More punishment is all it is.
Remove the cool down.
-Drumpel
CURTIS
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 10:20 AM CDT
Maybe I'm missing something, but this sure looks like a lot of disingenuous goal-post moving to me.
People demanded to be more lethal as an attainable post-cap goal, Elstid made a very real (and elegant) change in that direction, and suddenly people want it immediately at-cap. Did I miss something here?
CURTIS
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 10:28 AM CDT
"Why? More punishment is all it is."
Not sure it how it sounds in text, but this is meant as an honest question: Do you truly believe the GMs are trying to "punish" you (or wizards in general)? If so, for what reason? If not, how does claiming such a thing help the conversation?
Not sure it how it sounds in text, but this is meant as an honest question: Do you truly believe the GMs are trying to "punish" you (or wizards in general)? If so, for what reason? If not, how does claiming such a thing help the conversation?
KANDOR
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 10:54 AM CDT
Well, why should wizards have a spell like 515 that they can keep up constantly? Because they've always had it? What is the best use of the spell? Is it to cast bolts, or to cast warding spells? I think it is very useful in certain situations, but if it is intended to help with bolt deficiencies, then why not only have it usable with bolts? What is the goal? I'd rather see something that augments bolts to add multiple crits on each cast, as Estild's 940 example showed. I'd readily trade 515 for that effect, in fact.
ARCHSENEX
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 10:57 AM CDT
>> I'd rather see something that augments bolts to add multiple crits on each cast, as Estild's 940 example showed. I'd readily trade 515 for that effect, in fact.
I'm still all for that 940, but I gave up on pushing for it since nobody else seem keen on seeing if it would solve the problem and just wanted to keep going on about other class' spells.
I'm still all for that 940, but I gave up on pushing for it since nobody else seem keen on seeing if it would solve the problem and just wanted to keep going on about other class' spells.
DOUG
Re: Another Reason Water Lore Should Also Unlock Minor Steam
05/24/2017 11:10 AM CDT
I'm not sure it's intended as 'goal post moving', honestly.
The struggle is that prior to 2016, wizards at any level, at any time, could enjoy the benefits of Rapid Fire (515) without restriction. This included being able to recast spells immediately (0 second cast roundtime) and auto prepare of the same spell. There was a change to prevent the 'auto prepare' based on wizard feedback - but I'm not sure exactly when that happened relative to the other changes.
Then, suddenly in 2016, wizards could use Rapid Fire (515) but only with restrictions - a recovery period and a one-second cast roundtime. All wizards, everywhere, suddenly were 'less than they were yesterday', with strong feedback about the change being provided.
Subsequently, the recovery period was tweaked (I think it was shortened, but age / memory may be tricking me), and a provision to further reduce the effects of the recovery period were introduced (the EMC equation). This change essentially restored Rapid Fire (515) to the post-cap wizard's use. But even at-cap wizards would have to plan carefully and make specific choices to get this benefit at cap. Pre-cap wizards were left with the recovery period and its effects.
What's at issue, I personally believe is -
1) The design intent of the spell may have shifted from an 'always available combat spell' (like, for example, Elemental Targeting (425)) to a 'situational use combat spell' (like, for example, Spirit Strike (117)).
- we do a lot of spell comparisons that make sense to us, as players, but I think we sometimes aren't well-centered on design intent changes like this. Keep in mind that this is a 'may have' point, even today I'm not sure the point is accurate. But the effect on pre-cap wizards is exactly in this space, intended or no.
2) No one, not our well-post cap wizards, nor our long-term casual players of wizards, nor our up and coming wizards - in fact no one in any walk of life in any situation - likes to feel 'less' than he or she was yesterday. That's just our cultural nature - we do not like to have yesterday's abilities curtailed in any way today.
So, my perspective is - the spell design intent changed. It isn't (now) intended to be a constantly running spell. Certain provisions (the EMC benefits) have been made at post cap levels to help address some concerns expressed. And the spell is presently a 'diminishing return' use spell - during recovery it can still be used in exigency but at an increased cost that likely is very unsustainable pre-cap. And our pre-cap population would like to be what they were yesterday.
I don't have any suggestion on how to realize it, though - and I fear that suggestions to just drop the recovery period wouldn't be supportable under this potential new design intent. Which means if we want it to happen, we have to tackle that side of the spell. And for that, I don't really have any strong suggestions, right now.
Doug
The struggle is that prior to 2016, wizards at any level, at any time, could enjoy the benefits of Rapid Fire (515) without restriction. This included being able to recast spells immediately (0 second cast roundtime) and auto prepare of the same spell. There was a change to prevent the 'auto prepare' based on wizard feedback - but I'm not sure exactly when that happened relative to the other changes.
Then, suddenly in 2016, wizards could use Rapid Fire (515) but only with restrictions - a recovery period and a one-second cast roundtime. All wizards, everywhere, suddenly were 'less than they were yesterday', with strong feedback about the change being provided.
Subsequently, the recovery period was tweaked (I think it was shortened, but age / memory may be tricking me), and a provision to further reduce the effects of the recovery period were introduced (the EMC equation). This change essentially restored Rapid Fire (515) to the post-cap wizard's use. But even at-cap wizards would have to plan carefully and make specific choices to get this benefit at cap. Pre-cap wizards were left with the recovery period and its effects.
What's at issue, I personally believe is -
1) The design intent of the spell may have shifted from an 'always available combat spell' (like, for example, Elemental Targeting (425)) to a 'situational use combat spell' (like, for example, Spirit Strike (117)).
- we do a lot of spell comparisons that make sense to us, as players, but I think we sometimes aren't well-centered on design intent changes like this. Keep in mind that this is a 'may have' point, even today I'm not sure the point is accurate. But the effect on pre-cap wizards is exactly in this space, intended or no.
2) No one, not our well-post cap wizards, nor our long-term casual players of wizards, nor our up and coming wizards - in fact no one in any walk of life in any situation - likes to feel 'less' than he or she was yesterday. That's just our cultural nature - we do not like to have yesterday's abilities curtailed in any way today.
So, my perspective is - the spell design intent changed. It isn't (now) intended to be a constantly running spell. Certain provisions (the EMC benefits) have been made at post cap levels to help address some concerns expressed. And the spell is presently a 'diminishing return' use spell - during recovery it can still be used in exigency but at an increased cost that likely is very unsustainable pre-cap. And our pre-cap population would like to be what they were yesterday.
I don't have any suggestion on how to realize it, though - and I fear that suggestions to just drop the recovery period wouldn't be supportable under this potential new design intent. Which means if we want it to happen, we have to tackle that side of the spell. And for that, I don't really have any strong suggestions, right now.
Doug
