more people will be attending if it's a lesser cost meaning more people in the raffles and for merchant services. Most raffles lately have had over 100 people for one item. If it's a straight say 10 dollars to be able to do shops and merchants and enter raffles then it will increase a lot. if there are 100 people paying 50 dollars. and 500 people paying 10 dollars lets say then my odds of services and raffle wins would be extremely low.


is that a better explanation? (no sarcasm serious question)

>>This part confuses me, because it appears to me that your complaint is that more people will now be attending EG, and that will lessen your chances of winning raffles or winning merchant services. Did I understand that correctly?

It is a valid point. The odds of ever winning a raffle placed in Landing are bad. Really really bad. When you paid to go to eg you still had bad odds but a better shot. The same for the merchants. Put in the time and you would get rewarded. Go to something like frontier days and who knows? I would still say pay to play games is the far worse aspect of the change, the idea that those of us who play a ton of them through the event are a fringe group so don't count? That is pretty lame. Something some people won't care about but some of us will find a huge turnoff.

I think someone else pointed it out before but this is the ONLY non nickle and dime you event left in the game. It helps give it a more unique and friendly atmosphere as far as I'am concerned. A lot of people go to eg who would never go to any other paid event in the game. You say you don't make enough money off it which I find hard to believe considering how little they pay you ,but even if it is true there are other ways than pay to play. The ethers were one way could do it and you made a few hundred bucks right there off of me alone with them. It tweaked some noses to be sure but it was a far less controversial and game changing way to add more income to the event than what you are doing now.

Fyrentennimar


Fyrentennimar


Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""

>>you mean besides all of the free fests (including the one going on right now) and the summer and winter Premium fests that you can upgrade for 1 month to attend? Or what exactly did you mean by ONLY?

There is a huge differance between those and eg please don't try to pretend there isin't. The summer fest offered nothing I really wanted other than lightening.
Winter festival? I can't say I have ever cared much for it either. Trying to compare those low tier free events to something like one you buy a ticket to go to or constantly shell out cash to play is just silly.


Fyrentennimar


Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""

>There is a huge differance between those and eg please don't try to pretend there isin't. The summer fest offered nothing I really wanted other than lightening.

and there is a huge difference between none and the fact that a lot of resources also go into those fests (whether you like the offerings or not, at least 1 rare service was offered this year). The reality of the situation is that that EG in its previous format was unsustainable, and as someone who has always been a proponent of GM pay beyond pizza and beer $$, if more is going to staff, then I'm willing to at least look at the new format and pay structure before demanding that the previous format be maintained.

>>and there is a huge difference between none and the fact that a lot of resources also go into those fests (whether you like the offerings or not, at least 1 rare service was offered this year). The reality of the situation is that that EG in its previous format was unsustainable, and as someone who has always been a proponent of GM pay beyond pizza and beer $$, if more is going to staff, then I'm willing to at least look at the new format and pay structure before demanding that the previous format be maintained.

They are significantly smaller events that take far less resources, The number of merchants showing up to them is pretty small anymore to. You are comparing an ocean to a puddle of water. I have a feeling you are really more trying to sideline the discussion though.

I agree GM's should be paid more, we could probably get far more if they had a decent wage ,but like I also said there are far better ways to make more money off this event than what has been announced. Ethers were a good start to it, I sort of hate the idea but some limited unlocking for fluff would for a small fee would probably make them some extra cash. I mean there are scripts you can only get unlocked at eg that really don't add much of any value to an item but someone might really want it anyway and not be able to get it done. They could probably be coaxed to shell out a couple of bucks to get it done if they missed the chance.

I'm not sure if I like that idea or not but i'm spit balling here trying to offer different ways they could increase revenue from the event without doing this lameness.

Fyrentennimar


Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""

I don't like all these currencies.

Make one for free events and one for paid events. The conversions for all these currencies is becoming a problem.

http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif

>>and there is a huge difference between none and the fact that a lot of resources also go into those fests (whether you like the offerings or not, at least 1 rare service was offered this year). The reality of the situation is that that EG in its previous format was unsustainable, and as someone who has always been a proponent of GM pay beyond pizza and beer $$, if more is going to staff, then I'm willing to at least look at the new format and pay structure before demanding that the previous format be maintained.

We have no way of knowing if more money for Simutronics = better pay for the GMs, other than conjecture and hope(because we have always known they are overworked and underpaid, doubtless one - not the only, certainly, but one - of the reasons so many have left over the years), and we never will. If you have some evidence that proves otherwise, I would like to see it.

This is also not just any fest. This is The Ebon Gate Festival. The first one was in 1998 and it has run every year since. 19 years! Now it's being mucked with. One of the last great traditions left in the game. I realize that some will find that sentiment silly, but I don't.

Avaia, player of

It looks like there are four key issues that are being brought up.

• Moving to SimuCoin purchases.
• More currencies.
• Silver drains.
• My comments earlier on.

I'm going to go through each of those individual.

SimuCoin vs. Box Office

There are a number of reasons for the shift. The biggest reason is this is where we're at now. This is the direction I am told to work. Enormous efforts were put into Box Office events and it pushed the limits for minimal gains. We were running ourselves ragged and not even hitting our targets.

The Box Office also had issues when it came to development. Having to communicate and verify purchases in game always had issues. Anyone who has run some of the quests know the struggle.

Lastly, we didn't have the participation because $30, $50, or $80 was too much for people. A lot of people just want to explore, interact and make smaller purchases. SimuCoins allow us to capture larger audiences. This also seems to be a worrisome point about merchant lines. This is something we can address more before the event, because we want everyone to get a fun experience at these. Not just the 20 people who wait it out in a merchant line.

More Scrip and Currencies

I hear the concerns loud and clear. Let's do a history lesson real quick.

When we ported the TICKET system over from DragonRealms, we had 2 currencies. We bumbled around with it though. We didn't know really what we were going to. It started off as tickets and scrip when we made the system in GemStone IV. Scrip was going to go into our first pay event that would feature it, called Grey Raven. Unfortunately, it was a quest using the old mindset and it never came to be. It burned out 3 GMs trying to bring that up to speed. So just plain "scrip" never happened.

During Troubled Waters, GM Vanah introduced blackscrip, and Ebon Gate started to embark on tickets. During all that, I wanted to do a play off blackscrip and make something called bloodscrip for this small event called Duskruin Arena. At the time, GM Scrimge was lead on it, and I was his support as SGM. We struggled with the idea of the event for months. It was brutal because I had the PM breathing down my back on getting it out. But I kept saying I couldn't come up with a solid plan. I took a lot of heat about the event. And then a few of us started brainstorming a new approach to events. We were getting exhausted from never hitting our goals, and it burned out dozens of GMs. That's when we really honed in on a way to work bloodscrip into the game.

We learned a lot from bloodscrip. It helps us control an event a bit better, it also helps us manage expectations. Yes, I realize because it's tied to SimuCoin purchases it's making silvers feel less valuable, but I'll also get into that in my next bullet point. I also know it's coming with pricing that makes a lot of items unreachable.

We don't plan to offer an abundance of new scrip types. We do need to use what we learned with bloodscrip though, which means starting fresh with Ebon Gate. The former (general) ticket will still have use though. We plan on using it in some ways at Ebon Gate this year. We also plan on using it at other events and venues not tied to just pay events.

The plan is to have tickets, scrip (not used currently), blackscrip, bloodscrip, ethereal scrip, and seashells for right now. We've thrown ideas about swapping scrip types at venues for varying exchange rates. Given everyone's concern, we can try to come up with a solid plan for that sooner than later.

Silver Drains

I mentioned it earlier, but events aren't silver drains. They haven't been in a long time. Large, every day systems are ways to drain silvers. And it's something we talk about from time to time. Do we need to address it more? Yes, but it is more of a touchy subject than you probably can imagine.

I went through some old Ebon Gate numbers that I could find. These are Prime numbers, but EG drained less than 100 million silver in 2016. The Great Auction of 2016 drained just under 13 billion silvers. Hopefully that puts things in perspective. We essentially drained more silvers from that auction than Ebon Gate has ever achieved in the 19 years its been running (not including the 2006/2009 auction which were billed as an additional event due to the higher price point). Events like RtCF and CCF also weren't hefty drains. Running those events, we had a lot of resistance to silver pricing because the event price to get in was higher than most our events.

I understand everyone wants more things to spend silvers on. There are a lot of wealthy players, but the majority of players aren't sitting on hundreds of millions. Many players also aren't willing to spend their entire wealth on a single service/item cache. Silvers aren't being pushed aside though. Events will still use silvers. Specifically, Ebon Gate will still have a large silver-based inventory.

Participation

I realize what I said earlier on isn't matching up to how I was applying it. Meaning, if you don't like an event or a direction an event is going, not to go. Context got lost. I realize some of you are saying, "I want to go, but not in this new direction." Well, as I said earlier, this is the direction we're moving. These are the tasks given to me to perform. I can't change that. I do, however, perform my duties. I am a problem solver and I get things done. One way or another. A lot of that drive is because I have a passion for this game. I grew up with it. It's also my livelihood now. I left my career path to do this full time.

The direction aside, assuming how Ebon Gate will run already isn't something you can do. We're trying something new. It's not a Duskruin reskin. I'm sure someone will disagree during the event, but we're doing things in a way that fit both areas where we need to be successful. Will it work? I believe so. I think this year's Ebon Gate is going to be one of our best. I foresee us finally getting more people to enjoy the event than ever before. Anyone saving their SimuCoin Rewards will also get to do it with just their active subscription. These are amazing new moves for us.

My comment was mostly touching on not worrying about it if it's not something you want to do. You can call that unprofessional if you want. It was meant to be a voice of reason. We have a lot of stuff for you to enjoy. Events are only a facet of what GemStone IV is. My comment wasn't a reflection of the game. We remove the events, we still have a great game to play.

It's up to you if you want to take this journey with us, but things are definitely changing. We have a lot of game development these days. We have a lot of fun activities not tied to SimuCoins going on all the time. You have a robust GameMaster roster constantly breathing life into this game. We have several hundred more players than we did in 2016. I hope to keep that momentum going. I hope you (the players) can continue to enjoy the game.

---

Wyrom, PM

<The direction aside, assuming how Ebon Gate will run already isn't something you can do.>

Actually, it's all we can do until we're told the details that have supposedly been withheld.

I'd bet every silver on every character I have that the majority of those posting in this thread has been around long enough to express their time in GS in terms of decades. We've been around long enough to see the patterns so if you're just going to release a teaser that makes it look like a turd when the patterns are applied to it, it's gonna be a turd until we get all the info.... and the longer it takes to get that info, the less likely opinions will change away from that.

<I realize some of you are saying, "I want to go, but not in this new direction." Well, as I said earlier, this is the direction we're moving. These are the tasks given to me to perform. I can't change that. I do, however, perform my duties. I am a problem solver and I get things done. One way or another. A lot of that drive is because I have a passion for this game. I grew up with it. It's also my livelihood now. I left my career path to do this full time.>

Except in solving your boss's problem, you're breaking what's a highlight in the game for a good many players and furthering the Zyngafication of GS... so you're not solving anything so much as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I may or may not be spending the accumulated "free" simucoins I have on EG, but unless the details knock my socks off (highly unlikely), I'll have to spend the money I would have spent on an EG ticket on something else instead. Maybe I'll treat myself to a month of premium time in World of War Planes, that costs about the same.

< My comment wasn't a reflection of the game.>

Your PM title makes every comment you have a reflection of the game and the company that runs it...

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

Why not just make seashells into general tickets? I get the beach theme and all but not everything has to reflect that.

http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif

Something to keep in mind, there's been about 10 people posting in this thread. We've now heard from about 2 tenths of a percent of the player base. If we get up to 50, that's around 1 percent.

98% of the player base doesn't regularly post on these forums, and gives their feedback by instead continuing to support the game, and turning every event into a success that is inconceivable by previous standards.

I made a minor correction in my post about the silver drains. Added some powers of ten there, haha.

ARCHSENEX, you were close on the forum percentage. It's about 94%. In terms of per capita, that's actually pretty good when you compare against other areas of the Internet.

MEKK1, we actually have thousands.

---

Wyrom, PM

<Not sure what you mean here. More people go to events than ever before. I solved a rather big issue for the company.>

<There is also the secondary market. Every scrip type that can be sold is also sold for a price...>

The comment you quoted had nothing to do with the stupid scrip types or currencies. I couldn't care less about that. Do yourself a favor and look up Zynga and their rise and fall before you finish converting GS over to their model.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

"https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Currency " -- The Wiki Witch

Can redsteel marks be given/traded/sold to other characters, though?
They look, from their description, more like a cross between skill at darts (where you progress in ranks) and CMan points (where you spend points [gained one/rank] to achieve upgrades). Or the Adventurer Guild badges, where you earn points/use them to upgrade your badge.
Basically, if they only work on Spirit Beasts, they're less of a currency and more of an integral part of Spirit Beasts, and useless without a Spirit Beast. Like becoming able to bling out your Alchemy cauldron (new legs, new handle, add a spout, special no-stick copper lining...), only works with Alchemy/useless without Alchemy/can't be used without an actual cauldron (or in this case, Spirit Beast).

.

<having discovered the 'Talondown Arena' article>

Okay, that explains a lot more.

.

However, as a side note, the fact that redsteel marks can be used to upgrade spirit beasts is not mentioned anywhere in the Spirit Beast article, only in the Talondown reference at the bottom.

.

.

.

.

Do any (all?) of the various currency pouchs, work with more than just one? (Like being able to put 10k silvers in [lower encumbrance would be a huge plus!], 10k bloodscrip, 10k marks, 10k blackscrip, 10k General Tickets, and so on.)

If not, could they be created? Carried by creatures? Raffled off? Given as prizes?

>> there's been about 10 people posting in this thread

Well I'll make it 11 then. I too am disturbed at the direction this is going. I can't stand the fact that EG is moving in the direction of all these other events. I hate that we have a million different new currencies appearing in the game.

EG was the one event I thought I could count on to be different, but now it appears it's moving to the same nickel and diming method these other events use.

And the "don't go if you don't like it" argument....ugh, I don't even want to give my opinion on that.

>>add removal of costs for unredeeming.

I'll address the price.

---

Wyrom, PM

Silver Drains

I mentioned it earlier, but events aren't silver drains. They haven't been in a long time. Large, every day systems are ways to drain silvers. And it's something we talk about from time to time. Do we need to address it more? Yes, but it is more of a touchy subject than you probably can imagine.

"Large, every day systems" - You mean a system that should have been turned on years back and one I'd even support in this day and age you've said has been removed from the table and will not happen - breakage?

We could go back and forth all day about this and that with breakage and good and bad, blah, blah, blah.....it could have been a wonderful system if implemented well and followed through with properly.

I'll just leave it there so things don't spiral out of control.

Participation*

I realize what I said earlier on isn't matching up to how I was applying it. Meaning, if you don't like an event or a direction an event is going, not to go. Context got lost. I realize some of you are saying, "I want to go, but not in this new direction." Well, as I said earlier, this is the direction we're moving. These are the tasks given to me to perform. I can't change that. I do, however, perform my duties. I am a problem solver and I get things done. One way or another. A lot of that drive is because I have a passion for this game. I grew up with it. It's also my livelihood now. I left my career path to do this full time.

Many people understand you're not the owner, you're like most other people out there at the their jobs and you do what what is necessary in the work that's delegated to you. The issue I have is how you come off on some of your posts like you don't care about the customers. That attitude carries over to other employees under you (monkey see, monkey do). You are the face of the game for customers and to be told (whether you meant it or not) "if you don't like it, don't go" sounds like you're just pissed and taking it out on customers. Almost like you feel like just kicking us in the seeds and walking away like it doesn't matter.

This last post to explain your position/points is a much better response intended for your customer base to see. It's less of a punch to the stomach and less leaving us feeling like you don't care.

The direction aside, assuming how Ebon Gate will run already isn't something you can do. We're trying something new. It's not a Duskruin reskin. I'm sure someone will disagree during the event, but we're doing things in a way that fit both areas where we need to be successful. Will it work? I believe so. I think this year's Ebon Gate is going to be one of our best. I foresee us finally getting more people to enjoy the event than ever before. Anyone saving their SimuCoin Rewards will also get to do it with just their active subscription. These are amazing new moves for us.

The biggest issue I have with the change to the pay-to-play is that me, personally, I'm not wealthy by any means. I have enough spare income to afford $54 a month on a couple of accounts. I can also afford to save a few bucks here and there to set aside for Ebon Gate when I knew in the past tickets ran right around $50 for an entry. Or even on past events like the Wavedancer or even further back the Dhu Gillywack. I haven't been around for all pay events (taking breaks from the game here and there as income issues arise and a game is just something that can go on the wayside) and I haven't attended other pay events either because I may be absent during their run or they didn't strike my fancy enough. However, when an event did come around that worked with my schedule or interested me enough, I could find a way to make that ticket payment and enjoy the aspects that the entire event offered.

EG was the last venue for me that was handled this way. I could attend, not have to pay-to-play the games/special features offered in the event. I could use in game currency to do things other than shop for fluff or the same weapons you see at most merchants. I had a great time the past few years at EG while killing downtime at work with digging or playing games. You could start up random conversations between other players. Get cheers and jeers with the joking and rib poking.

You have now adjusted the "walk through the gate" aspect of the event. Everyone and their cousin can walk in now without spending any kind of money (RL or in game). That's great. However, you've taken away the other aspects of EG that I (and others) have enjoyed for so many years that we've done with silvers (acquired in game because you know, in the game you earn silvers) and tied it to spending real money to do these things now.

You claim that the rewards are improved for things such as DR or DM over what is offered when you pay silvers in game to do these things (a.k.a digging). That's great and all, but you've done multiple things here that are, in my opinion, disgusting.

1) You've created some "special" currency that can only be used at whatever event you're doing the digging/games at. This pigeonholes people into having to spend more money to earn more of your "special" currency or they have to dump off the "special" currency or maybe buy it (somehow, from others with silvers or cash) just so they can get that one horribly overpriced item that's left dangling in front of them.
2) Return based on RL cash cost is horribly skewed. Based on the 2 - 100 pickaxes I did pickup to try out digging at DR, I got bupkis in return. $20 (2/5 the cost of attending EG) and I got a pile of urchin runner uses, a couple guild vouchers, a few measly jewelry items you find in boxes out hunting, a few gems, a few hundred bloodscrip and a pocketful of coins. Mathematically, it was a horrible investment for me to continue on the trend of spending money on pickaxes over what I could do at EG while using in game silvers.

Why in the world would I want to keep dumping my cash on such a wasted return for my investment?

I cannot even come close to having what I enjoyed doing at EG the past few years now that it costs real cash to do these things. I'd be lucky to do a fraction of them, even if you priced a dig or game play at $0.01. A lot of my playing time comes from downtown at work during the fall/winter season. I can have several hours a day that I have to be here at work with very little to nothing to do, so GS was my time killer. EG was a separate, fun venue that fell around my birthday and I could treat myself to a ticket and actually make use of my silvers in game on something different. I can only buy so much fluff or so many weapons before I pull my hair out because even though some items are unique in looks, they're functionally no different than what I already have.

I have no other method in game now to enjoy the use of in game silvers, other than handing them off between other players to buy items from them. So, you have done a wonderful job of taking the last thing, outside of normal game play mechanics, that I looked forward to every year since I came back from my long break. The paltry "free" simucoins (while a neat gesture) will do little to help when trying to pay for game passes or shovels/pickaxes for digging.

I'm glad you guys have found a way to literally milk many of your customers who, for some reason that's beyond me, don't seem to give a rip they're paying subscription fee plus dropping hundreds and hundreds of dollars on in game features that used to be handled with silvers and not cash.

I've lost the extra fun thing I really looked forward to and based on how this trend has been coming since the introduction of the SimuCoin store and changes to how you access RNG events in game, I won't support it anymore. I'm probably one of the very few that'll leave over this transition or maybe I'm just one of the very few that'll at least speak his mind about his distaste for it all as I walk away.

In the end, I am bitter. I lost something I enjoyed, a lot. I do understand from a business end and money intake, these shifts tend to bring a much increased cash revenue that all business enjoy.

Wyrom, just do your remaining (and any new) customer base a soild, keep posts like the past one in good taste - even if some jerk like me lashes out. You, like most people, should know that joking/emotions/taking things out of context is very easy to do in text because you don't have that face to face requirement so you can get an actual personal read of what the person in front of you is conveying. I don't like to pull punches and having to keep things "clean" on the forums can be difficult for me. I'll tell you like it is whether I'm talking to you in person or posting on the boards, that's just who I am.

-Drumpel

<-Drumpel>

Pretty much exactly what I've been trying to say.... well, not the silver drain part, but the rest of it, definitely.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

I believe the fact still remains all I see this doing is moving things from people who have silvers in game to moving things to people who have money IRL and I think thats a terrible direction.

I will most likely end up buying the passes that allow for shopping and the merchant stuff, but will end up staying away from the gambling my money way for the chance to win an item I may not even want.

>>I believe the fact still remains all I see this doing is moving things from people who have silvers in game to moving things to people who have money IRL and I think thats a terrible direction.<<

This.

___________________________________

The flamepoint sand kitten hisses at a patchwork flesh monstrosity.
... 9 points of damage!