Various magic items and systems have had some improvements. The following items were impacted.

New System
Generic MIU/Scroll CS
A new system has been added for Magic Items and Scrolls to allow additional CS and Maneuver bonuses for those skilled in the appropriate skill. Activating a CS spell from a Magic Item or Scroll will now grant a CS bonus similar to spell ranks using the following formula.
.75 CS per rank up to level
.5 CS per rank up to 2x level
.33 CS per rank over 2x level

Maneuver bonuses are sphere/spell specific but generally following the following pattern
.5 per rank up to level
.33 per rank up to 2x level
.1 per rank over 2x level

Note: Semi spell bonuses are halved.

As an additional note elemental and sorcerer spells are granted an additional bonus when wearing 1711 similar to that of 425. The calculation used is the same formula as 425 (25 bonus at 25 ranks and an additional bonus point up to a max of 50 at 75 ranks). This bonus is in additional to the base +10 CS granted by the base spell.

Items
Magic items/scrolls have had the following updates.
-Gold rings location settings are now detectable via. 405.
-Bronze Squares (1718 - V'tull's fury) can now be activated from containers. This update addresses some issues weapon users had with needing to hold the square in the offhand to activate.

Misc. Notes
The mana verb has been updated with enhancive values to bring it in line with the other stats-related commands.
The messaging for 520 (Mage Armor) has had some updates to its messaging to help casters keep track of which elemental aspect is currently active. Spell Active has also been updated to reflect the current element in use.

Viduus

Wow. Massive change. Very nice.

Keith/Brinret/Eronderl

Keith is correct

-Wyrom, APM

Keith is correct.

-GameMaster Estild

can you explain the 1711 update a bit better , I just used it from a scroll and i'm only seeing +10 CS on 703.

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The 1711 update is strictly in reference to elementals/sorcerer spells that are used when using a magic item or scroll. So if you have 1711 active and use 415 it will grant you additional CS.

If you're using 1711 and casting a spell you know, it will still only grant +10 generic CS.

If you're saying you used 1711, then cast 703 from a wand or scroll, and you had at least 25 magic item/scroll ranks, then that's a bug I'll have to address. Was this the issue you saw?

Viduus

for the record you mean 425, right?

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No. In that instance I was referring to using 415 off a scroll/wand, while having 1711 active. It's late and I'm tired so maybe this clip will make more sense.

(MIU 415 without 1711 active)
>wav wand at rolton
You wave your black wand at a rolton.
1d100: 7 + Modifiers: 378 == 385

CS: +463 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +72 == +557
Warding failed!
You blast a rolton for 25 points of damage.
... 50 points of damage!
Right leg aflame. When the smoke clears, there's nothing left.
The rolton bleats loudly as he collapses to the ground in obvious pain and favors his mangled right hind leg.
The rolton lets out a final agonized bleat and dies.

Same setup with 1711 should look closer to this.
(MIU 415 with 1711 active)
>wav wand at rolton
You wave your black wand at a rolton.
1d100: 7 + Modifiers: 378 == 385

CS: +523 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +72 == +somethingbig
Warding failed!
You blast a rolton for 25 points of damage.
... 50 points of damage!
Right leg aflame. When the smoke clears, there's nothing left.
The rolton bleats loudly as he collapses to the ground in obvious pain and favors his mangled right hind leg.
The rolton lets out a final agonized bleat and dies.

Viduus

>> Some CS bonus is reasonable, but more CS bonus for 2x training in a 0/1 skill than a self caster is getting from 3x training in a 0/8 skill? That seems far too much.

The bonus specifically is just one part of it though. Remember that native casters get an outside bonus etc. Play with the numbers a bit and you should find that casting with miu leaves you a little behind native casters (and a lot behind without 1711), but now it's only a little whereas before, you couldn't use cs spells from items.

CS: If I understand correctly, neither the MIU/AS bonus nor the 1711 bonus applies when using a scroll or magic item to cast a spell that you already know. In other words, twisted wands will not be the new hot item for Sorcerers. Clerics and Wizards might start using them. Wizards, in particular, should look into trying some 719 wands.

Maneuver: Are we talking about maneuver defense or maneuver offense or both? For example, do Wizards gain maneuver defense based on AS ranks when casting 712 from a scroll? Do Sorcerers gain a bonus based on AS ranks when casting 1207 from a scroll?

>If I understand correctly, neither the MIU/AS bonus nor the 1711 bonus applies when using a scroll or magic item to cast a spell that you already know.

this is where I got hung up on using 415. Sorcerers were the example but we know 415.

Still utterly confused but...

Should I be using 1711 before invoking 319 as a sorcerer now? Would I have the same 'new' benefit invoking 319 after 1711 as I would if I rubbed 319 after 1711?

Is 1711 not the important part of this update?

<< I don't see a Manuever bonus on 1207. >>

Force Projection (1207) is an offensive maneuver spell (sort of like a single-target e-wave) that increases in effectiveness based on MnM spell ranks. I think that's the sort of spell to which this update applies.

It might also apply to Spike Thorn (616), Call Wind (912) and Grasp of the Grave (709). All three of those spells have an instantaneous effect, but all three also have the possibility for lingering effects. There is a runestaff somewhere, which has been sold several times, that casts Spoke Thorn. I assume that even with 202 MIU ranks a Cleric would never be as good at Spike Thorn as a Ranger.

>> Ok, so the only spells affected are elemental and sorcerer spells that are immediate and CS based?

>> And only when using 1711?

Yup. So it should mean that things like 512, 703, and the like are options for outsides.

Cleric CS spells still get the MIU bonus, but 1711 is really just there to make up for the missing +50 that you would have gotten from 425 (which gives +50) since anybody who casts elemental or sorc spells is expected to have 425 up.

Is the bonus (max) the same when you compare a magical item to a scroll?

I think in terms of one system, duration(?), invoking benefits from both MIU and AS and is therefore preferred.

Did they have 425 Up? (They're not supposed to stack)

Estild,

I just wanted to ask you to clarify this note.

"Note: Semi spell bonuses are halved."

This is just saying that the calculation is halved when anyone is casting a semi-circle spell from an item, not that semi's have all calculations halved when they use any item, right?

That set aside, really nice changes here.


Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.

>> The mana verb has been updated with enhancive values to bring it in line with the other stats-related commands.

Can you also fix the SPIRIT verb? I'd like to know that my spirit regen is being enhanced, and currently there is no way to tell if a spirit regen enhancive is charged or depleted because the SPIRIT verb doesn't indicate that your regen was enhanced.

> This is just saying that the calculation is halved when anyone is casting a semi-circle spell from an item
> Correct

What is a semi-circle spell? Sorcerer only? Is Empath still considered half-mental?

>>What is a semi-circle spell?

Wouldn't this be like. . . spike thorn (616)?

Doug

So if I'm a sorcerer casting a cleric-circle CS spell off a scroll, do my MnS ranks still count toward my CS as well? Or is it now arcane symbols ranks only?

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The system will use either your natural spell bonuses (known spells) or your arcane symbols ranks, whichever is higher, but they won't combine with each other. If you have a bonus of 423 from your spiritual spells, but a 450 CS from arcane symbols, your arcane symbols value will be used. If, on the other hand, you have a 423 bonus from your spiritual spells, but only a 327 CS from your arcane symbol contribute, your spell bonus will be used.

Viduus

How would you feel about the idea of allowing 1711s half bonus being added to to sorcerers casting natively (not from scroll or magic items) from the 400s or the 100s to help bring out CS in line and be able to use our spells usefully?

Took me a bit to figure this update out, but I like it a lot. Makes spells that couldn't be used well quite useful now in principle.

Thanks for the clever work on this long-standing issue, with apparently a very carefully considered and balanced implementation.

>As an additional note elemental and sorcerer spells are granted an additional bonus when wearing 1711 similar to that of 425. The calculation used is the same formula as 425 (25 bonus at 25 ranks and an additional bonus point up to a max of 50 at 75 ranks). This bonus is in additional to the base +10 CS granted by the base spell.

So then, shouldn't this also work similarly with Paladin base spells and Champion's Might, since I assume the Paladin base circle is also tuned for TD based on assuming 1612 is always running?

> Since paladin TD is designed around an expectation of less than 1x in spells, its not really needed to put magic item users in hitting range of those TDs.

Good answer. At lower levels I'd expect some kind of skew, since up to 1635 is pretty direct, but then it tapers off. In any case, there's just a really small selection of spells affected in any case so it's a bit left field.