Might I suggest a running change log on the wiki as changes are made and introduced?

As a fairly long-term player, I'd rather be able to focus on the deltas than disrupt my current leisurely stroll through documents I find interesting or that may impact my roleplay as I prepare for a situation.

My old eyes will thank you.

Doug

"- We'd like to review shop biases to give all characters bonuses in certain towns."

Isn't that sort of a stat though? Dark elves seem OP statwise without it and it was a choice for many players at character creation either to have it be worth the trading effects or to choose another race/species, it seems like you are removing one of the major cons for one race and not doing anything for others. I would say the negative logic bonuses to some races are more of a glaring issue and lengthen gameplay time vs losing silver, will that ever be addressed?

Wyrom and all staff -- Thank you. Many of the ideas brought up the other day in the original Suggestions folder thread are included in this list and I appreciate that you're taking the time to address them.

---

Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."

I'm just curious, is anyone going to receive an apology for one of your GMs flat out accusing people of being racist and heavily implying anyone who disagrees with this decision is racist and therefore their money is no good here?

I really don't want any argument from players or GMs that this did not happen, I read the now deleted posts, I am not a child who will be talked down to and told what I read didn't really happen.

Or is there where you just delete posts (probably including mine) to sweep all of this under the rug and pretend it never happened?

> Might I suggest a running change log on the wiki as changes are made and introduced?

You know Miss Leafi does this for the TownCrier, right?

We start a new one each year since we started keeping them:

https://www.gstowncrier.com/category/gsiv_changelog/

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;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"
Lawronius: The stuff ... the TownCrier team does is incredible.

Well... first of all, thank you, Luxie. <3 And I hope everyone continues to enjoy the changelog.

But with that said, I do think Doug's request should stand in this case, mostly because this is a contentious topic that needs GMs to take the lead. (There's also the fact that my changelog only covers tangible changes in the playable game world, so while things like a building opening up for more races would get in, adjustments to half-krolvin lore on a wiki page wouldn't get mention from me unless it was also referenced somewhere in game.)




As for the main topic of this post, I have thoughts but will need time to collect them.

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https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara

<I'm just curious, is anyone going to receive an apology for one of your GMs flat out accusing people of being racist and heavily implying anyone who disagrees with this decision is racist and therefore their money is no good here?>


I was surprised this wasn't mentioned at all.... when I saw THANDIWE's post I assumed that was the main thing was going to be addressed.

Starchitin, the OG

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

>For my part, I choose for myself not to be offended. I know I'm not racist

That's a cop-out. Clearly we are discussing a sensitive issue here and clearly there are strong opinions on both sides of the argument.

It doesn't take any sort of word twisting to recognize what someone is getting at when they come along and and say "Racists aren't welcome here" in the middle of an otherwise somewhat tame conversation (by our community's standards anyways.)

>It isn't a cop-out at all. You can recognize what is being said and still choose not to be offended by it.

He said he chose not to be offended by it because he knows he's not a racist, that's the cop-out, as in if you're offended by the statement then clearly you're a racist because otherwise you wouldn't be offended.

Like I said it doesn't take any sort of word twisting to understand what the statement was getting at, we don't need to dismiss it outright by insisting only racists would get offended by the statement.

>>For what it's worth, that's something you can start doing today. There's a Lashonda somewhere in game, also I think another character named Laquanda (perhaps both owned by the same player?), who both have black/dark skins and curly/frizzy black hair. I believe both are of the human race as well, or maybe one human and one half-elf. One look at them and you recognize they are based off of African humans. This game being so open ended, there's a lot players can already do on their own regarding the point you're bring up. If you want to go further, you can start your own African based character RP or CHE or whatnot. Tehir, Dhe'nar, the huntress, and arachne are all canon cultures/gods that started off from player RPs. Probably a few more I'm forgetting as well.

Yes, I could, but is there something wrong with this being a canon addition instead?

~Teveriel, Arrec, et al

~You remove a pair of oval ora-framed spectacles with pale grey lenses from in your ebon linen vest. You unfold the earpieces of your spectacles. You put on a pair of oval ora-framed spectacles with pale grey lenses. You think to yourself, "Deal with it."

>Yes, I could, but is there something wrong with this being a canon addition instead?

Given what Kveta said regarding resources being limited, having players starting an initiative like this would save the GMs a lot more work, and the work being organically grown over time from player RP also makes it more liable to be accepted by all instead of something a single GM write up and add directly to canon.

Lastly, there's always something admirable about people being the change they want to be, and this is a good opportunity for those concerned about your point to start on.

Personally, I'm of the belief that words and labels only have power if you react to them.

Easier said than done of course.

As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!"

>Personally, I'm of the belief that words and labels only have power if you react to them.

Which is ironic given the announcement this all spawned from.

<<Hey everyone, we're not going to continue the same discussion in a new thread. We're moving forward at this point. I think we can all agree that there were some missteps and that accusations were being thrown around. I've listed some of the concepts were are trying to address in game. Let's discuss those.

I'd, personally, like to see half-krol and Dark Elf towns similar to how the other races/species have them. (Gnomes not included cause they're small). I know bits and pieces of Ta'Faendryl exist, just glue them together and good to go!

Thank you, Naos. Sincerely.

Doug

Of the eight points in the OP, six don't really need any further comment from me. As for the other two...



>- We'd like to review concerns with Dark Elves and Half Elves.

Can you name any concerns with half-elves currently in discussion? I play one and I'm not sure I can think of much. (At least not specific to half-elves. Changes in Ta'Vaalor messaging affect half-elves but affect most anyone else too, so that's a different story.)

I suppose I don't like any of the half-elf specific verbs; maybe those could stand a review, especially the COWER ones that imply someone with a history of being beaten.



>- We'd like to review shop biases to give all characters bonuses in certain towns.

Certainly I can think of places where the bonuses and penalties seem nonsensical to me, lore-wise. I can't comprehend why Solhaven has a trading penalty for half-elves even though A) its baron is a half-elf and B) it doesn't have trading penalties for elves, so apparently has no problem with elves anyway. Unless of course those elves are sylvans or dark elves, both of which Solhaven really dislikes for some reason.


My larger concern, though, is that altering trading bonuses is altering game balance. I'm not necessarily saying don't do it; I'm saying it's important that the races somehow remain overall "close enough" that we can continue to make the case that one should pick a race primarily for RP reasons. It's important that we (collectively, not individually) can plausibly say that any combination of race+profession makes sense.

I think consensus already generally says that, other than the overwhelming opinion that sorcerers should be dark elves for both lore-based and mechanical reasons. EK already perfectly articulated that particular situation in Treeva's thread a couple of days ago, so I won't harp any further there.

If these trading changes happen, I'd seriously suggest reconsidering the idea of not adjusting other racial attributes. These don't necessarily have to be traditional stats like Strength and Wisdom, but could even be factors like encumbrance, maneuver bonus, and TD bonuses.

This would especially be important for the races who would not benefit from silver generation becoming more equalized--namely humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, and aelotoi, who already have trading bonuses somewhere. So give them a buff in other categories while everyone else gets a buff in making silver. And that same reasoning would apply proportionately to others who already have neutral trading in most places.

(Dark elves, half-krolvin, and burghal gnomes would be the biggest beneficiaries, then to lesser extent half-elves, sylvans, and erithians, then to even lesser extent giants and forest gnomes.)

Sensati,

If you could give me an example of the ambients that would be great. I have spent hours looking at messaging, and the generic town messaging looks pretty tame. Was this recently? I did find old set of ambients which I thought were terrible, but I thought they were dormant and not firing. I have been spending a lot of time in town on a PC so I could see things first hand.

Any info you can give would be awesome so I can look for them while I am digging.

Thank you for the feedback.

~ Valyrka ~
Ta'Illistim
Elves
Dark Elves

Avawren ~ I have Survival and a knife. I can work it out.

<<- We'd like to review concerns with Dark Elves and Half Elves.>>

With respect to the Dark Elves, I think it is a very large character demographic that has been without its own geographical support for decades now, and for obvious political reasons the base of it should not be in the Elven Nations. I'm not in favor of an open access New Ta'Faendryl. It is a very sealed off city for a lot of reasons, and it would have to be as developed and supported as Ta'Illistim. What I would propose is building Gellig, which is somewhere between Ta'Faendryl and the Demonwall, as an Emporion outpost.

It would be accessed by a permanent rift somewhere in the northwest, probably the Landing region for political reasons. This would be the logical interface point for their Erithi gem traders, and we'd be able to get some development for that part of the map, along with the regional giantmen and Dhe'nar. Sort of like Solhaven versus Vornavis. It would also be far enough away from Maelshyve that the dangerous or transformative radiation aspects of Rhoska-Tor would be a non-issue with having non-Dark Elves present.

If its in plat, no need. I will pop over tomorrow and see what I can find. It may be the old messaging was never swapped out. Feel free to email me a message or two.

~ Valyrka ~
Ta'Illistim
Elves
Dark Elves

Avawren ~ I have Survival and a knife. I can work it out.

>If you made it this far into my post, thanks for reading. ~GILLIEN

Also wanted to bump this from the other thread, since it's closed -- excellent post, +1.

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-- Wheels & Skulls Department

You see Blood Mayor Cruxophim the Blood Reaver.
“Blood for the Blood Mayor! Skulls for the Skull Office!”

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