Previous
"Hey, everyone. This morning I wrote some things which were rather incendiary and ultimately an unproductive addition to an important conversation. Worse, what I said could easily be taken as a personal or otherwise direct accusation.
I never intended to suggest or imply or directly accuse anyone in the conversation or our community at large of being racist. I truly believe our community is better than that, and that it is easy to become lost in the fervor of the moment when something you feel strongly about is challenged.
However, there is a time and a place and a manner in which a message like this can and should be shared, and I am sorry that what I said caused some of us real anguish and tarnished the message in the process."
--
Naos
Humility and admitting where you might have been wrong (whether or not the overall sentiment is right or not) is an admirable thing and should more largely be celebrated in the world than it is.
I applaud you and have a profound amount of respect for the statement you made. Introspection is something that unfortunately few people avail themselves of, though I've personally found it profoundly successful within my own growth.
Thank you for this, it's gone a long way to my own personal faith that the discussion we're all having can come to some substantial middle ground that makes sense for differing sides.
~Aendir
GONDOLION
OM1E5GA
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 03:18 AM CDT
<Naos's post>
I won't pretend to speak for anyone else, but for myself I'll simply say: Apology accepted, lets both do a better job of counting to 10 before clicking "post".
.....
On a separate but related note, thank you Wyrom for reaching out to me directly rather then fanning the flames further here. I know I indicated not mentioning it in your public post was a mistake, but upon reflection the way you handled it was better. I'll do my best to remember this when EG rolls around and I invariably let my emotions run away with me over something.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I won't pretend to speak for anyone else, but for myself I'll simply say: Apology accepted, lets both do a better job of counting to 10 before clicking "post".
.....
On a separate but related note, thank you Wyrom for reaching out to me directly rather then fanning the flames further here. I know I indicated not mentioning it in your public post was a mistake, but upon reflection the way you handled it was better. I'll do my best to remember this when EG rolls around and I invariably let my emotions run away with me over something.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GS4-AUCHAND
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 03:27 AM CDT
>I love this idea, myself -- it's not exactly in the purview of cleaning up old lore, but it's solid. Even if it's just a small outpost to start, something for the HK and maybe something like...
"What a good idea," said Auchand, poker face firmly in place.
Auchand
"What a good idea," said Auchand, poker face firmly in place.
Auchand
RAGZ
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 09:07 AM CDT
I like the proposed changes, and I am cautiously optimistic about the direction things seem to be headed.
If you really accept culpability in regard to these topics, and you care about expanding the goal of breaking the silence on these topics, while thinking through potential changes to the various systems, please consider . .
What are the acceptable artistic mediums through which an individual can be educated about these subjects?
It occurs to me that you have a platform from which you can impress upon the player the level of injustice experienced by black Americans through what has been asserted is their analog within Gemstone. By eliminating the theme of systemic racism in safe, moderated spaces of artistic freedom like video games you are effectively invoking the silence (within the community exposed to that medium) that the oppressed are asking empowered communities to break.
Fighting against real world systemic racism is a laudable goal for which any effort should be commended. It is a real dragon of an issue. We are dealing with a dragon in this community surrounding this issue, but I assert they are not the same. Game designers, game designer-aspirants, if you haven't heard Chris Crawford's 1992 Dragon speech, please give this titan of industry a chance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBrj4S24074
Ragz
If you really accept culpability in regard to these topics, and you care about expanding the goal of breaking the silence on these topics, while thinking through potential changes to the various systems, please consider . .
What are the acceptable artistic mediums through which an individual can be educated about these subjects?
It occurs to me that you have a platform from which you can impress upon the player the level of injustice experienced by black Americans through what has been asserted is their analog within Gemstone. By eliminating the theme of systemic racism in safe, moderated spaces of artistic freedom like video games you are effectively invoking the silence (within the community exposed to that medium) that the oppressed are asking empowered communities to break.
Fighting against real world systemic racism is a laudable goal for which any effort should be commended. It is a real dragon of an issue. We are dealing with a dragon in this community surrounding this issue, but I assert they are not the same. Game designers, game designer-aspirants, if you haven't heard Chris Crawford's 1992 Dragon speech, please give this titan of industry a chance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBrj4S24074
Ragz
FLAYED-ANGEL
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 09:44 AM CDT
>"What a good idea," said Auchand, poker face firmly in place.
I misread that as just saying poker (as in, branding iron) and was confused for a moment.
-- Wheels & Skulls Department
You see Blood Mayor Cruxophim the Blood Reaver.
“Blood for the Blood Mayor! Skulls for the Skull Office!”
[ Storyline: https://goo.gl/HNbwpC ]
[ Order of the Shadow: https://goo.gl/88Ojff ]
I misread that as just saying poker (as in, branding iron) and was confused for a moment.
-- Wheels & Skulls Department
You see Blood Mayor Cruxophim the Blood Reaver.
“Blood for the Blood Mayor! Skulls for the Skull Office!”
[ Storyline: https://goo.gl/HNbwpC ]
[ Order of the Shadow: https://goo.gl/88Ojff ]
DURGRIMST
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 10:10 AM CDT
I appreciate the effort that's going into this, and I appreciate your clarification on what plans are in the works, Wyrom. This is a world with a lot of history, sometimes complicated history, but it's also a world that is current and thinking critically about what could be made better, more inviting, and more equitable is a good thing.
For the GMs, is it possible to share specific details about the what and why of what's being changed before those changes happen? I bet there are many things and many changes that we can all agree on and buy in to, and my sense is that much of the resistance to these changes comes from concern over the impact and scope of vague plans. I also think giving all interested players opportunities for feedback along the way are important. You're undertaking a complicated process, and I've seen of well-meaning institutions implementing changes and policies that only shift the problem rather than correcting it. You may have a better chance of getting it right and getting people on board if you get more eyes on changes before they go live.
I support cleaning up text and changing language of lore documents, particularly where that language reflects, even parrots, real-world racist tropes. I love the idea of adding more dimension to the Half-Krol, and I think that adding dimension should be the general goal of all of these changes outside of the first bullet point of 'cleaning up text.' Races have complicated histories and that is ok, but adding dimension to their stories could make them less caricature of mixed or dark skinned races from the real world and more valuable in their own right within the roleplay of Elanthia.
I hope that issues in the game world can be addressed while adding complexity and richness, rather than by removing problematic dynamics or lore in an effort that promotes sameness rather than valuing diversity.
Those are my thoughts for now.
For the GMs, is it possible to share specific details about the what and why of what's being changed before those changes happen? I bet there are many things and many changes that we can all agree on and buy in to, and my sense is that much of the resistance to these changes comes from concern over the impact and scope of vague plans. I also think giving all interested players opportunities for feedback along the way are important. You're undertaking a complicated process, and I've seen of well-meaning institutions implementing changes and policies that only shift the problem rather than correcting it. You may have a better chance of getting it right and getting people on board if you get more eyes on changes before they go live.
I support cleaning up text and changing language of lore documents, particularly where that language reflects, even parrots, real-world racist tropes. I love the idea of adding more dimension to the Half-Krol, and I think that adding dimension should be the general goal of all of these changes outside of the first bullet point of 'cleaning up text.' Races have complicated histories and that is ok, but adding dimension to their stories could make them less caricature of mixed or dark skinned races from the real world and more valuable in their own right within the roleplay of Elanthia.
I hope that issues in the game world can be addressed while adding complexity and richness, rather than by removing problematic dynamics or lore in an effort that promotes sameness rather than valuing diversity.
Those are my thoughts for now.
FUDGEHJ
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 10:39 AM CDT
I still have strong opinions on how harmful this is, how it's doing exactly the opposite of what activist groups have asked to be done (as mentioned earlier by Ragz). But its been Decided (it was before they even mentioned it, this hasnt been a discussion its been a 'this is what we're doing).
Whatever.
That aside, this statement while not 100% clear to me and I admit maybe I have misread it or am reading into it makes me very very worried:
< >I love this idea, myself -- it's not exactly in the purview of cleaning up old lore, but it's solid. Even if it's just a small outpost to start, something for the HK and maybe something like...
"What a good idea," said Auchand, poker face firmly in place. >
Creating new locations that are X-Race locations will only reinforce the racial divide in the lore and narrative of Elanthia. It is setting the stage for conflict along racial lines, for prejudice across racial lines, etc. Even X-Race quarters in already existant locations reinforces these boundaries between races that will glorify such things you wish to de-connect from the lore.
Instead, you want to be doing the opposite. You want to be de-connecting Race and Location. I think even those who disagree with this are all pretty much agreeing that if you DO such a thing, make it lore based and have it make sense.
So heres a small suggestion of the steps needed:
1. Some sort of threat, natural or otherwise, that physically disrupts all the nations of Elanth. Specifically, Vaalor, Illistim, Cysaeger, Zul Logoth, Teras, The Empire, Icemule, Faendryl Town, Dhe'nar Ville. Everywhere that has the defining characterstic of 'X race lives here'. Play it out in game. Make it flexible and not feel 'forced'. USE THIS TIME to showcase how the old ways, the divides across racial lines, DO NOT WORK and end up failing, allowing The Threat to push forward and be destructive.
2. At this point, governments and organizations of this world are dead or dying, hanging on by the thread. With this, this will require NEW LEADERSHIP. Oh yes. The Empire baronial system? Dissolved, the emperor cast down. The mirror? Dead. The monarchy in tavaalor? Destroyed. The patriarch? Also gone. Dhe'nar caste system? In turmoil. I honestly don't know what leadership styles all the races have, but again the important thing to note here is they need to go. They need to change, not to be retconned, but to be actively shown to be weak and ineffectual and to be destroyed or severely damaged by the Threat.
3. The threat still exists and is winning. Have players and NPCs come forward with a new way: Cooperation between races. Have new forms of leadership sprout up. Allow them to then successfully begin eliminating the threat. From a storytellers perspective...don't be dumb or heavy handed with this please but make it believable and natural. It can be done.
4. The storyline concludes. The new order rises from the ashes of the old. THEN you can implement changes to racial bias, THEN you can do away with old systems. But ALSO and MORE IMPORTANTLY highlight that Races are now FULLY OR AT LEAST HEAVILY INTEGRATED in every nation of the world. In fact, maybe have some of these be new nations. Do away with the EN and Empire. Instead of the city states of the Elves you now have the, and Im just spitballing, Eastern Alliance, led by a council of various races. Go room by room and change the descriptions to reflect this new reality. Instead of the Empire, have it be a collection of baronies with various styles of leaderships.
But please oh please don't do X-Race areas or towns, not if this is how you wanna go. Xorus was 100% right earlier: Creating the lore to have each nation only be X race has led to all the things you say are problematic. On a selfish note? I'd love for that outside threat that destroys the old order to be the Council of Light. I'd love for them to finally step out from being a secret organization to being fully and powerfully PRESENT, having infiltrated the old governments and are now stepping out to impose their rule. Also intriguing if that, by being more egalitarian are meritocratic than the Racial Nations is what initially leads to so much of their success.
This is the way forward here, if you insist on this direction. The thing is, guys, this will be a PROJECT. It will be HARD. It will take planning and talent. Do it right though, or not at all! Please.
AuchandToday at 11:28 PM
I would like to reiterate: Whick is my hero.
What is love? BB don't hurt me05/13/2020
Whick's so helpful! He's our villain even in our backchannel chatter as staff. :smile:
Whatever.
That aside, this statement while not 100% clear to me and I admit maybe I have misread it or am reading into it makes me very very worried:
< >I love this idea, myself -- it's not exactly in the purview of cleaning up old lore, but it's solid. Even if it's just a small outpost to start, something for the HK and maybe something like...
"What a good idea," said Auchand, poker face firmly in place. >
Creating new locations that are X-Race locations will only reinforce the racial divide in the lore and narrative of Elanthia. It is setting the stage for conflict along racial lines, for prejudice across racial lines, etc. Even X-Race quarters in already existant locations reinforces these boundaries between races that will glorify such things you wish to de-connect from the lore.
Instead, you want to be doing the opposite. You want to be de-connecting Race and Location. I think even those who disagree with this are all pretty much agreeing that if you DO such a thing, make it lore based and have it make sense.
So heres a small suggestion of the steps needed:
1. Some sort of threat, natural or otherwise, that physically disrupts all the nations of Elanth. Specifically, Vaalor, Illistim, Cysaeger, Zul Logoth, Teras, The Empire, Icemule, Faendryl Town, Dhe'nar Ville. Everywhere that has the defining characterstic of 'X race lives here'. Play it out in game. Make it flexible and not feel 'forced'. USE THIS TIME to showcase how the old ways, the divides across racial lines, DO NOT WORK and end up failing, allowing The Threat to push forward and be destructive.
2. At this point, governments and organizations of this world are dead or dying, hanging on by the thread. With this, this will require NEW LEADERSHIP. Oh yes. The Empire baronial system? Dissolved, the emperor cast down. The mirror? Dead. The monarchy in tavaalor? Destroyed. The patriarch? Also gone. Dhe'nar caste system? In turmoil. I honestly don't know what leadership styles all the races have, but again the important thing to note here is they need to go. They need to change, not to be retconned, but to be actively shown to be weak and ineffectual and to be destroyed or severely damaged by the Threat.
3. The threat still exists and is winning. Have players and NPCs come forward with a new way: Cooperation between races. Have new forms of leadership sprout up. Allow them to then successfully begin eliminating the threat. From a storytellers perspective...don't be dumb or heavy handed with this please but make it believable and natural. It can be done.
4. The storyline concludes. The new order rises from the ashes of the old. THEN you can implement changes to racial bias, THEN you can do away with old systems. But ALSO and MORE IMPORTANTLY highlight that Races are now FULLY OR AT LEAST HEAVILY INTEGRATED in every nation of the world. In fact, maybe have some of these be new nations. Do away with the EN and Empire. Instead of the city states of the Elves you now have the, and Im just spitballing, Eastern Alliance, led by a council of various races. Go room by room and change the descriptions to reflect this new reality. Instead of the Empire, have it be a collection of baronies with various styles of leaderships.
But please oh please don't do X-Race areas or towns, not if this is how you wanna go. Xorus was 100% right earlier: Creating the lore to have each nation only be X race has led to all the things you say are problematic. On a selfish note? I'd love for that outside threat that destroys the old order to be the Council of Light. I'd love for them to finally step out from being a secret organization to being fully and powerfully PRESENT, having infiltrated the old governments and are now stepping out to impose their rule. Also intriguing if that, by being more egalitarian are meritocratic than the Racial Nations is what initially leads to so much of their success.
This is the way forward here, if you insist on this direction. The thing is, guys, this will be a PROJECT. It will be HARD. It will take planning and talent. Do it right though, or not at all! Please.
AuchandToday at 11:28 PM
I would like to reiterate: Whick is my hero.
What is love? BB don't hurt me05/13/2020
Whick's so helpful! He's our villain even in our backchannel chatter as staff. :smile:
WARLORD1871
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 12:10 PM CDT
So i'm still trying to catch up but I wanted to make a suggestion.
Instead of completely removing things like the inns in Illistim not letting in certain races why not make a new system that lets the player earn their way past it kind of like the citizenship system but different, or expanded upon? Like it would take way more effort to get the owners of establishments with a real bias to open their doors than the current citizenship mechanic which players can blast through really fast. I think it would be very interesting for flavor if instead of removing background ambients that make note of the somewhat racist views of a place the system would take note of someone who had put in the time to overcome them. As an example someone in Illistim might give a grudging nod to mels dark elf sorc who he says has lived there for over a thousand years helping to defend the city.
Theres all kinds of flavorful ways you could do it but the idea is adding more ambient messaging that can fire off for people in the system.
On the subject of krol I never equated them to black people and find it silly to do so,my whole draw to them is the fact they are the only somewhat bestial race we have to play. I mean when we first got news we were getting new races a heck of a lot of us were excited for things like Shan or Reivers but what we got instead were mostly tame stuff. I like them fine and have made characters for msot of them but it really left a lot of us disappointed so PLEASE don't go making half krol lose the beast like aspect.
On trading bonuses I don't want to see negatives go away, I think there are some towns that it makes no sense for some of the negatives to exist, or at least be as bad as they are but please don't take them all away or give bonuses where it makes no sense.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
MWESTERBECK1
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 12:18 PM CDT
As it stands, the race lore and race systems haven't been touched or updated in over a decade and just reading about some of the races on the wiki leaves a lot to be desired. A chance for improvement is a good idea in my book as long as it is done tastefully and with care.
So here is my question for the GMs: I know race changes are out of the question due to game balance but would you consider giving everyone a Culture Reset once this update is complete? It really depends on what you plan to change but it is completely possible that certain characters might becomes messed up due to lore changes involving cultures. Since you can only reset your culture via the Simucoin Store, I think it would be fair to offer this service to anyone that needs it.
Overall, I think this is a good thing. In theory. This whole thing is a giant can of worms. We don't know the full scope of the planned changes right now but I am hoping that it will not cause a huge backlash from the community.
So here is my question for the GMs: I know race changes are out of the question due to game balance but would you consider giving everyone a Culture Reset once this update is complete? It really depends on what you plan to change but it is completely possible that certain characters might becomes messed up due to lore changes involving cultures. Since you can only reset your culture via the Simucoin Store, I think it would be fair to offer this service to anyone that needs it.
Overall, I think this is a good thing. In theory. This whole thing is a giant can of worms. We don't know the full scope of the planned changes right now but I am hoping that it will not cause a huge backlash from the community.
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 01:17 PM CDT
>>So here is my question for the GMs: I know race changes are out of the question due to game balance but would you consider giving everyone a Culture Reset once this update is complete? It really depends on what you plan to change but it is completely possible that certain characters might becomes messed up due to lore changes involving cultures. Since you can only reset your culture via the Simucoin Store, I think it would be fair to offer this service to anyone that needs it.
If any updates happen where this might impact your character's culture, we will offer this.
Wyrom, PM
If any updates happen where this might impact your character's culture, we will offer this.
Wyrom, PM
LEAFIARA
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 02:01 PM CDT
>On the subject of krol I never equated them to black people and find it silly to do so,my whole draw to them is the fact they are the only somewhat bestial race we have to play. I mean when we first got news we were getting new races a heck of a lot of us were excited for things like Shan or Reivers but what we got instead were mostly tame stuff.
I never would have seen the comparison either, but now that's it been brought up, the thought's definitely crossed my mind of whether there would be any perceived problem if, instead of half-krolvin, the species had been created as, say, half-shelfae or half-shan. (And shan even bark...)
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
I never would have seen the comparison either, but now that's it been brought up, the thought's definitely crossed my mind of whether there would be any perceived problem if, instead of half-krolvin, the species had been created as, say, half-shelfae or half-shan. (And shan even bark...)
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
WARLORD1871
Re: Various Updates
07/01/2020 05:04 PM CDT
My first post was kind of rushed so I figured I would try again.
The idea I wanted to put forward was a system that lets you earn reputation to change how a town thinks about a said character over a certain amount of time. This could be displayed through ambient scripts having a small chance to trigger instead of normal ambient messaging. Right now there is nothing in the game that really changes no matter how long you have lived somewhere even if you become a citizen all you really get are some verbs and if you are lucky enough to catch a GM you can get a pin but that service is never offered. Well prices get cheaper but despite the wiki claiming you should get a bonus to selling things you really don't. Fyre gets the same dang price for a diamond in RR that he gets on FWI even though both are neutral to giants and he's a citizen of the Rest.
Another aspect would be eventually gaining access to places like the inns in Illistim for example, maybe there are other places like this I'm not remembering off the top of my head. Actually someone mentioned the giant and dwarf only tavern on Teras, I would add access to Vaalor but you said the paper system is going bye bye. The reason I think it might be best to be a separate system from citizenship is two fold. One you might not be able to get even partial citizenship someplace and if it was the same system do you still get it as a partial citizen? Two it doesn't take long to get citizenship people have been scripting it for years, not me mind you but still. Also would it be too much to ask for citizenship pins to be purchasable in each town instead of waiting years for a GM to show up once and offer them and you might miss them?
Please feel free anyone to add other suggestions for such a system. On a side note a lot of the Urutei storyline which brought the Aelotoi to Elanthia took place in River's Rest so I think it's kind of silly they get a negative trading bonus in the town. It should be neutral I would think.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
The idea I wanted to put forward was a system that lets you earn reputation to change how a town thinks about a said character over a certain amount of time. This could be displayed through ambient scripts having a small chance to trigger instead of normal ambient messaging. Right now there is nothing in the game that really changes no matter how long you have lived somewhere even if you become a citizen all you really get are some verbs and if you are lucky enough to catch a GM you can get a pin but that service is never offered. Well prices get cheaper but despite the wiki claiming you should get a bonus to selling things you really don't. Fyre gets the same dang price for a diamond in RR that he gets on FWI even though both are neutral to giants and he's a citizen of the Rest.
Another aspect would be eventually gaining access to places like the inns in Illistim for example, maybe there are other places like this I'm not remembering off the top of my head. Actually someone mentioned the giant and dwarf only tavern on Teras, I would add access to Vaalor but you said the paper system is going bye bye. The reason I think it might be best to be a separate system from citizenship is two fold. One you might not be able to get even partial citizenship someplace and if it was the same system do you still get it as a partial citizen? Two it doesn't take long to get citizenship people have been scripting it for years, not me mind you but still. Also would it be too much to ask for citizenship pins to be purchasable in each town instead of waiting years for a GM to show up once and offer them and you might miss them?
Please feel free anyone to add other suggestions for such a system. On a side note a lot of the Urutei storyline which brought the Aelotoi to Elanthia took place in River's Rest so I think it's kind of silly they get a negative trading bonus in the town. It should be neutral I would think.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
INIQUITY
Re: Various Updates
07/02/2020 07:17 AM CDT
<< X race town, etc. >>
Well, to be clear about what I mean with building Gellig as an Emporion trading outpost, this is a historical town in territory controlled by the Faendryl empire that already exists in the documentation. It would not be a "Dark Elf Town" as such. Not a cultural appreciation expo or a larger version of the Ta'Illistim embassies. It would be a nexus point for interacting with (or visiting) Grot'karesh giantmen, Dhe'nar, Khanshael and Greetok and Oltregek dwarves, and any of the ill-defined groups and tribes and cults of the southern wastelands. It would also open up the Rhoska-Tor and Demonwall and Wizardwaste parts of the map for post-cap hunting grounds when we have the Ascension system.
What has bothered me is not bad blood and harsh attitudes in the Elven Nations. They have serious ideological disputes. It is that the Dark Elven nations are not included in the game itself. If anything is ever happening with them we do not know it. The Elven Nations is no substitute. It is a place of exile even if you toss the stuff that seems racist.
Well, to be clear about what I mean with building Gellig as an Emporion trading outpost, this is a historical town in territory controlled by the Faendryl empire that already exists in the documentation. It would not be a "Dark Elf Town" as such. Not a cultural appreciation expo or a larger version of the Ta'Illistim embassies. It would be a nexus point for interacting with (or visiting) Grot'karesh giantmen, Dhe'nar, Khanshael and Greetok and Oltregek dwarves, and any of the ill-defined groups and tribes and cults of the southern wastelands. It would also open up the Rhoska-Tor and Demonwall and Wizardwaste parts of the map for post-cap hunting grounds when we have the Ascension system.
What has bothered me is not bad blood and harsh attitudes in the Elven Nations. They have serious ideological disputes. It is that the Dark Elven nations are not included in the game itself. If anything is ever happening with them we do not know it. The Elven Nations is no substitute. It is a place of exile even if you toss the stuff that seems racist.
GAMEQUEST3
Re: Various Updates
07/03/2020 05:28 PM CDT
I just want to know what this will do for me, Al Franken....I mean Pukk.
Pukk - Cholen follower extraordinaire
Pukk - Cholen follower extraordinaire
FLAYED-ANGEL
Re: Various Updates
07/03/2020 06:41 PM CDT
<< X race town, etc. >>
>It is that the Dark Elven nations are not included in the game itself. If anything is ever happening with them we do not know it. The Elven Nations is no substitute. It is a place of exile even if you toss the stuff that seems racist.
That was much more to my point -- not so much melting pots and cultural mosaics, as geographical parity. I'm not advocating for stringent cultural separation through regions, just some starting point for identity.
That's also more of a long-term suggestion, to be realistic, than lore assessment.
-- Wheels & Skulls Department
You see Blood Mayor Cruxophim the Blood Reaver.
“Blood for the Blood Mayor! Skulls for the Skull Office!”
[ Storyline: https://goo.gl/HNbwpC ]
[ Order of the Shadow: https://goo.gl/88Ojff ]
>It is that the Dark Elven nations are not included in the game itself. If anything is ever happening with them we do not know it. The Elven Nations is no substitute. It is a place of exile even if you toss the stuff that seems racist.
That was much more to my point -- not so much melting pots and cultural mosaics, as geographical parity. I'm not advocating for stringent cultural separation through regions, just some starting point for identity.
That's also more of a long-term suggestion, to be realistic, than lore assessment.
-- Wheels & Skulls Department
You see Blood Mayor Cruxophim the Blood Reaver.
“Blood for the Blood Mayor! Skulls for the Skull Office!”
[ Storyline: https://goo.gl/HNbwpC ]
[ Order of the Shadow: https://goo.gl/88Ojff ]
CLUNK24963
Re: Various Updates
07/04/2020 06:59 AM CDT
>>It is that the Dark Elven nations
Old Ta'Faendryl is there, is it not?
And both new Ta'Faendryl and Rhoska'Tor show on the Map of Elanthia.
And, there are a number of excellent role-players who represent varying factions of both cultures.
The one I've not seen played out is descendants of elves who unwillingly served the Arkati as construction workers and artisans, and who were tossed off cliffs if they failed to perform adequately.
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
