I really don't get why there are so few shops available for renting in the Crossing, and then the circle requirement is so low that absolutely anyone who has been playing a Trader for 2 weeks can own one. Obviously you shouldn't be restricted by the plans of previous GMs, but Godrich had always floated around the number of requiring 100th Circle to own your own shop, which seemed perfectly reasonable. What in the world convinced you to lower it so drastically to level 30, and then release so few shops? Anyone who wasn't there on Day 1 to snatch up a shop is completely left out of this awesome new system (and please don't be stupid and mention that there are shops in Shard, no one cares about Shard)

People keep telling me to just ask around and find a Trader willing to sell me their spot. Yeah right. I've been offering 1000 plat to low level Traders who barely even have any items on their shelves and can't possibly be making much money, but no one in their right mind is going to give up their spot when it's such a fun system. No one even cares about DR money, they just want to own their own shop because that's what every Trader dreams of doing. The only way a shop will ever open up is if someone quits DR (and even then it won't be open for 2 months), and then you're going to have dozens of Traders all trying to win the lottery and be the first person to grab that spot.

It's so unbelievably disappointing that you would let level THIRTY Traders have their own shop, while many very high level Traders (not just myself, not by a longshot) are completely left out of this awesome system and have no hope to ever get a shop

in short: QQ whine whine QQ

Apu

I don't even play a trader anymore, but I do think that the level requirements are a bit low. With how few items can be kept out by a circle 30 trader I feel it would be better for the traders who can keep 2 tables out to have more of an opportunity to do so. The older traders likely have more interesting and rare stuff that a new trader unless they're being supplied by an older character. Those who aren't are simply holding the shops, as Apu said, for their fun factor. This is a game and fun is important, but there are many many people being excluded that have spent countless hours doing the Trader thing and I feel they should have a priority this wonderful new addition to the game.

I have a 50th trader that I would like to reactivate and sell some of my several vaults worth of fest stuff from 6-8 years ago, but with the lack of availability of the shops I'm not paying for another account.

---

You laugh when you think of how funny you looked in a mirror the last time.

>>I disagree that Crossing needs more shops (honestly it probably needs less). The minimum circle to own one needs to be raised to 50th or 60th is all. That'd clear out over a quarter of the shops.

Well Crossing definitely needs more availability of shops. They could achieve that by either adding more shops, or increasing the circle requirement to own one (or ideally, both).

Level 30 was a ridiculously low requirement to own your own shop, but now that they already released it, it would be pretty unfair to rip shops away from people who already set theirs up. So I dunno any fair way to do it other than just releasing more shops in Crossing.

>>I think when Riverhaven opens their Plaza that will help with the availability if they make it as big as the Crossings one :)

This will help a little I guess, but it still doesn't solve the problem that new shops in Crossing will never open up, and anyone who wasn't there on Day 1 to get a Crossing shop end up banished to a crappy location that takes 30 minutes to travel to any time they need to restock. Sure it's not as worthless as a shop in Shard, but still no one in their right mind would ever trade their Crossing shop for a RiverHaven shop (I've been trying to pay people to do this - every response I got was along the lines of "rofl no are you crazy")

Apu

In my personal opinion if there are more shops added to crossing I would never notice. I barely go past the first few rooms as it is. Seeing the same stuff in most of the shops is just boring. I don't think just because you have a higher circle you deserve to have a shop over someone who has less circles but actually table traded instead of sat on the routes all day long.

Actually, I think the shops are just about right. But I do think that older traders should have a few perks like a crate to keep stock in that isn't being displayed yet, and the ability to transfer shops in a way similar to how vaults and caravans can be transferred. I'm sure you can think of other things. ;)


Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy

How about adding just a few more shops and add a higher circle/cost requirement?

See it as an example similar to a flea market or swap meet. Having a kiosk or small shop set up being cheaper than having an indoor air conditioned shop set up. (This is just an example so people can understand the picture I'm trying to paint)

The newer shops could have some extra perk, lets say double the circle requirement, and having a higher rent cost would mean it would take more effort for the trader to keep their shop in the black (that being the IC reason for the higher requirement. more experienced traders).

See it as the 'Diamond Club' for Traders. Maybe the shop perk could be having a NPC bank runner that could only be used for purchasing items from that shop so everyone won't use it as a teller to save a few steps.

>buy kertig sword
"The kertig sword of doom is 2000000 kronars. If you sign this form I can go retrieve it for you."
>sign form
The attendant nods to a guard who nods back the quickly rushes out of the shop. After a few moments the attendant returns with a bag of coins. The attendant then hands you the kertig sword of doom.

The bank runner could be deemed a premium perk if the GMs wanted to make it so.

Take it for what its worth.. just a few random ideas.

---

Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."

I don't even play a trader, nor have I ever really, but I have to agree that player shops should have been started with much higher and stricter requirements. I hope something is done to release more shops or balance the new system so that the traders who were not online during release can benefit now.

Way too many little shops, even adding more will make it a pain to shop around, should have been circle 70 or 100 or something requirement to start. Just my two kronars from a non-biased non-trader.


//Edwardu Underlove(d), Halfling Bard//

i would have made it much more variance by instance.

in plat we have maybe 3 shops. Total. the circle level there is ideal, because we don't have very many customers.

However, Prime totally differs.
in prime I would have set the level at 70 or 100. <and i'm not just saying that because my trader there is in his 80s and doesn't have a shop - i'm too busy playing other characters to give him the attention a shop would deserve>.

Basically by setting it at 30, the GMs made it a venue for HLCs of other guilds to set up their alt traders as their "front" to sell their stuff.

Not for people who play Traders as their main <such as Apu> to have the type of shops that were originally envisioned.

---

You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

>>Realistically, how long did it take for you to get your Trader to 70th circle? To the 80s? Forget about 100th circle.

You can hit 100th as a Trader in about a year if you do nothing but run commods/Zoluren for about 8-10 hours a day and have another account to teach Trading with/to.

That's not particularly relevant, however, as there are dozens of Traders at or over 100th circle.

I had an idea that instead of them being rented monthly and essentially owned. That they could be rented for 3-6 month periods, with a wait period of say a month or something. So that everyone can have an opportunity to use them. I think that would also make people more likely to maintain them. They are still more permanent and functional than tables. Plus it would give shoppers more variety.

I think we can whine and complain as much as we like. Fact is, this isn't the only system that has been released that ends up catering to a select few and it's unlikely that after releasing it for level 30 that they are simply going to say we changed our mind and kick everyone out, requiring level 70. I agree, however, that it's unfortunate that the people that happened to be online that day grabbed them all up.

I think the most we can look forward too, is perhaps another plaza opening in Haven, but who knows. It might show up on the islands.

I rarely see Traders actually occupying their shops, it feels wholly ooc to me. It seems like shops were created specifically for alt traders. I don't think they should be allowed to be open when a Trader is not in attendance. Making money and not being there is simply too easy.

This all led to another idea however, that if shops are going to stay as they are, that we need some sort of message system to contact these Traders that are never around. With questions etc. I bought an item I didn't need at one point because I wasn't aware that it didn't do what I expected and wished to sell it back to the shop owner. (like that would happen away....) I didn't see them in the realms till nearly a week later, and it was only for moments and I had already disposed or said item.

-I would sell you my shop Apu, if I had one. You have EARNED it.

>No, a Trader's shop should be allowed to open according to a given schedule like it already is, without the Trader actually being there. You really think businesses run in the real world without their managers being around all the time? No.

This isn't the real world and it's the only fantasy setting i have been in where this is the case. And the shop attendants cannot answer questions, they are in fact pretty useless to the shopper. You can get more info from an NPC shop owner. It's also the only system in the game I can think of that benefits the player without them being there.

If I were speaking as a non trader, so what? You spend 40 hours a week running your shop making 1000's of plats. Guess how long and how many hours I have to put in to make that, all of which I'm stuck in the game.

My point is that it needs some tweaking AND that it would be nice to have some form of communication, if in fact it's 'OK' for the trader to almost never be there.
A message box or a way to give the assistant a message? something.

Whatever, not trying to start a conflict. But don't come at me saying you would be spending too much time in the game if you manned your shop. I accomplish NOTHING when I'm not in the game.

>>100th circle in a year running 8 to 10 hours A day, and have another teach you trading as you go.. what bull. Even if you didn't have to train up other skills to actually "circle," that's unrealistic. I'd even say it's unrealistic for a hard-core gamer. People have lives.

I guess it depends on what sort of day job you have, how good you are at scripting (and, more importantly as far as Traders go, recovering from a script error. I eventually ended up writing a script that specifically unloaded the caravan as much as possible because it was getting irksome recovering by hand), and your ability to multitask.

Heh, not all shop owners make thousands of plats from their shops. I have three tables out (4 total) and the average price of my items is probably around 10 plat. I don't learn anything from the game while my shop is open and i'm not logged in but I DO have to pay a commission on everything sold while I'm not physically in the store area of my shop, logged in or not. I enjoy my shop and am grateful I was able to rent it, I think I was one of the last to find an empty shop.

Hopefully more shops will open in other areas so more traders can be shop owners. I'd also like to see more NPC shops that can be financed by traders, there are only a handful and I think it would ne a nice alternative to the small number of shops. I think if you rent a shop then you shouldn't be able to finance a NPC shop.

Chancellior

Freedom isn't Free, I paid for it.....in combat

>>I can agree to this. I was a manager for years in a retail store and I typically worked over 40 hours per week, including holidays and weekends. It was actually why I had to leave the realms for 6 years.

You're comparing a small, privately-run shop to a chain retail store though. Most folks have worked retail and know the corporate drill. Having also worked on the privately-owned and -operated side of things, though, I can assure you that the owner/a manager is not always present. In fact, in the situation I was in, she was only there when she wanted to yell at someone.

This is more along the lines of a brainstorming idea or two for you folks to pick at or tell me I'm off my rocker.

Idea 1: To give the higher level circle traders their "perk", any new shops opened shall be prioritized. Day 1, new shops may be bought by circle 100+ traders. Day 2, new shops may be bought by circle 90+ traders. Continue down the line, and the last day of the week opens the shop to circle 30, or whatever the set minimum rank is to own a shop.

Idea 2: I'm guessing each room in the plaza could hold another 2 or 3 shops. Another idea would be to have an "East Plaza" and a "West Plaza", if there is going to be more shops added to the crossing area.

Idea 3: The other zones are rather "piss poor" locations compared to the crossing. Hence, plaza portals could be placed in each town other than the crossing. This portal would port everyone to the "Astral Plaza".
The "Astral Plaza would be one large plaza shared by the Islands, Shard, Theren, and P5.

To keep it from being just a huge congregation spot, the astral plaza could be treated like the beginning part of the necro guild where folks couldn't see or interact with one another. Just a basic buy from the shops type area.

Any thoughts?
-Sleus

Continuing to wait for more shops in Crossing to open up...

Still frustrated that I missed the opening and didn't get one...

Agree that 30th is absurdly low, when previous GM discussion was around 100th...

Spending time on other characters, while hoping something changes or opens up sooner or later. And no, not really excited about relocating to Theren or Shard. The bulk of shopping takes place in Crossing, and until that changes, that's where the majority of potential shopkeepers will want to be...

Anyway, just tossing in agreement with what several others have said.
Alisya

considering the proportion of complaints about it to the number of traders, and the apparent lack of foresight about this situation before this entered prime, one would hope that the horse has a few breaths left in it.

>>Shops in Crossing

There are not currently plans for more shops in Crossing. I'm still waiting for shops to hit equilibrium, which is soon but not now. I'm surprised at how few evictions there have been, though - this may influence our final decision.

However we know there is a demand for new shops in Crossing, and dealing with that in some way or another is a priority for us.

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"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

I have not lost sight of cool 100th circle abilities for traders :).

I bantered about some of them at Con, but nothing's solid yet.

--

"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

Speaking as someone who has all but lived in the shops the last two weeks or so as I try to find useful stuff for my characters as I've been gone for so long and there's so much new stuff, the biggest problem are the empty shops.

I've literally checked all the shops at least once per day over the last two weeks and, just for an example, the shop that sells Edgee's weapons(I forget the exact name of the shop or who owns it) has literally had nothing but a short sword and a halberd in the entire shop the entire two weeks.

There's no reason for a shop to carry two items while there's dozens of Traders begging for a shop. There needs to be some kind of system in place for taking away derelict shops and allowing them to be rented by someone else.