Why do people sit on so many TDP's in anticipation of training up stats? Seems to me it would make more sense to train the stats as soon as you have the TDP's available. Somebody point out the error in my ways, please.

Roger

>If i raise each stat by 5, I would save a day or two [over 3-4 months]

1) Okay, you went from 1 year to 4 months and an increase of 10 to an increase of 5. So you cut your previous claim by a factor of 6 to counter my criticism that you were discounting the effects of mentals...

2)I don't use desinyx because it gives me really wonky pulses sometimes - like showing me pulsing over 3% on a post wall 500+ rank. I'm really at 1.87% and atomictim gives me 1.89%. Maybe my mentals just match up better with that calculator. I don't know.

3) Atomictim/datarealms shows a savings of five 16 hour days by increasing all mentals 5 points, taking the total time down from 72 training days to 67 training days. I think a 7% increase is worth it. Lets just say it just ends up being a 4% (I agree they aren't sexy in small doses) increase for raising them 5 points, is that worth it? I think so, especially as a downpayment on a larger investment.

4) Like you said, who is going to play 16 hours a day keeping one skill locked? No one. But will someone spend 3-4 hours a day keeping 3-5 skills at a high mind-state? Sure.

>My fear is that the way you encouraged mentals might led to people overskew their stats, such as doing 15~20 physicals and 30~40 mentals, with the mindset of "mentals first, physicals later", thinking it is more effective.

"I'm not promoting being a mentals tank. My personal training of my characters is very physicals-intensive for the first 40 circles, just because I can't really enjoy them until things like burden, fatigue and combat roundtimes are a non-issue." - Me, post 1348.

>If you're talking about "end goal" stats, then the learning benefit is irrelevant. Without skewing your stats, the process of attaining 50's mentals, you're not really benefiting from the higher mental benefits back when you're circle 20~30.

"Obviously my mentals weren't always this high, but perhaps gradually increasing my mentals over 30 for the past four years has netted me an extra 650 ranks, 6 circles and 1800 tdps." Me, post 1359

Bottom Line:
I don't think we're too far off in our understanding of how the mentals benefit, I just don't think we're seeing eye to eye on what qualifies as a good return for our TDPs and the timeframe over which we want to see those returns. I still say that if you get to 60th circle without any mentals over 30 (so you presumably have 30-32 in your physicals) and your skills are approaching 300, you might want to ponder investing in some mentals(not saying invest, just think about it).

~ S.S.

That and pure laziness, I know when I have enough TDPS to raise a stat I just wait untill I can raise 2-3 instead.

~Birkan Featherhands teh Drunken Prydaen

Train those mentals. If you don't have 30s in your mentals by 60th you're a terribly trained character.

P.S. Here's a hot tip for you. Strength is a waste of time... it's the new old charisma so to speak.

Hahahahaha Having strength over 30 is pointless and this is coming from an LE/HT/LT user.

If your mental stats are under 30 by 60th circle not only are you poorly trained but you're also making your training that much harder.

I apologize though, sometimes I forget I tend to be one of those min/maxers ya'll hate so much... You know, the kind who look to optimize everything? I forget some folks "have fun" training strength to 70 and role playing a Tog with a mental handicap.

<<That's just dumb... 1) just because someone doesn't have their mentals to 30 by 60th doesn't mean their character is terribly trained. It means they didn't think they needed their mentals to be that "high".

<<2) That "tip" is foolish. Strength is not and has never been a waste of time. It's still needed for burden and RT times with weapons and such. All stats are important and none are a waste.

Just wanted to add: strength helps with how hard you hit things as well. Even if you're swinging min RT if you up strength you're still getting benefits. Also, it was at one time stated by a GM that a rewrite to bows could show strength playing a role in loading/drawing a bow. Just something to keep in mind.

Training stats is and likely will always be left up to personal preference. All stats have benefits and neglecting any stat will create weaknesses. Training ANY stat is never a waste. I'd say even if you had 10 in everything and 98 in your favorite stat and you spent your TDPs on that favorite stat it still wouldn't be a waste, it'd just be different than someone (most everyone?) else might do it. Look at Zonkar... guy's got 99 intelligence and he seems to be doing just fine. Gurt has mad strength (90s?) and I doubt many would say he is a terribly trained character.

---

"...you do not deserve Ability X just because another guild received it." -Armifer

"Sabbra Caddabra" your skill/title/ability is now mine.

<<I apologize though, sometimes I forget I tend to be one of those min/maxers ya'll hate so much... You know, the kind who look to optimize everything? I forget some folks "have fun" training strength to 70 and role playing a Tog with a mental handicap

You must be a pretty great min/maxer... wanna compare stats/skills with me?

Gender: Male Age: 28 Circle: 62
You were born on the 7th day of the 3rd month of Lirisa the Archer in the year of the Golden Panther, 359 years after the victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Your birthday is over 7 months away.
Strength : 25 Reflex : 40
Agility : 47 Charisma : 20
Discipline : 28 Wisdom : 28
Intelligence : 32 Stamina : 37
Favors: 6
Concentration: 239 Max: 239
TDPs: 61
Encumbrance: None


When I think of min/maxing I think of training stats that are the cheapest to buy. That means you waste less TDPs. Making sure your mentals at 60th are at least 30 has nothing to do with min/maxing. My disc and wis still cost far more than anything else to raise at this point.

<<My disc and wis still cost far more than anything else to raise at this point.

<<Discipline : 28

>I weep for your discipline.


But you cower at his agility.

>Agility : 47


________
"Just an observation, but you do not seem to know what you are talking about, and the things you say seem generally unintelligent."

<<But you cower at his agility.
<<Agility : 47

Nah, it's good for sure, but I prefered my 40 agility and 40 discipline at that circle.

But then if I wanted my stats to look like that I would have trained them that way :) To each his own. But that low discipline makes me hurt inside.

---

"...you do not deserve Ability X just because another guild received it." -Armifer

"Sabbra Caddabra" your skill/title/ability is now mine.

Why does his low discipline hurt? Not sure which part your asking 'why' to


Farewell, remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.
~Paradise Lost (bk. IX, l. 171)

<<psha.. not very impressed with the agility.. especially with the low strength.. :-P

Yeah... I have min RTs and no burden. Why would I want strength?

<<Your base Strength is twenty-five(25).
<<It will cost you 99 TDPs to raise your Strength from 25 to 26.

<<Your base Discipline is twenty-eight(28).
<<It will cost you 98 TDPs to raise your Discipline from 28 to 29.

<<Your base Agility is forty-seven(47).
<<It will cost you 95 TDPs to raise your Agility from 47 to 48.

Gotta love halflings.

shrug 30 str 38 agil I have min RT everything I use besides blunts and poles. Okay, so the bastie is 30 stone forged with reasonable balance. I think with 25/47 he can get min RT all edges, as well. It's not like he's training weapons like a barb =\

Strange is one of the few Thieves around that circle that can destroy me.


Vinjince

---

"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."

- Sima Yi

>Here's the problem with Strange. You're 110% offensive heavy. If you know the target and are hunting whoever, then chances are you'll do alright so long as you don't give them a chance to attack.

>If someone wanted to kill you though, you're a pretty easy target especially against anything related to will vs will. I'm confident my 40th level empath could put you asleep for 10 minutes or so without dropping himself.


You're taking one weakness he has and expanding it too much, I think. For his circle he's got outstanding agility, good reflexes, and great skills. He's weak against WvW spells, that's about it. He's strong against ranged attacks (if that's possible), as he's got over 200 shield as a thief. Good stealth, perception, backstab, decent ranged. Strange competes in a lot of tournaments where folks are trying to kill him and he regularly survives. I'm going to correct one of your statements:

>If someone wanted to kill you though, you're a pretty easy target only against anything related to will vs will.

________
"Just an observation, but you do not seem to know what you are talking about, and the things you say seem generally unintelligent."

My goal is to get all the stats to 50 when i reach 100 circle in the next couple of month.

Name: Pirate King Lamarque Race: Human Guild: Thief
Gender: Male Age: 35 Circle: 70
You were born on the 20th day of the 6th month of Arhat the Fire Lion in the year of the Crystal Snow Hare, 363 years after the victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Your birthday is over 8 months away.
Strength : 30 Reflex : 40
Agility : 40 Charisma : 35
Discipline : 40 Wisdom : 35
Intelligence : 35 Stamina : 30
Favors: 6
Concentration: 355 Max: 355
TDPs: 1193


you guys think it can be done? 50 points in all stat at 100 circle? after i hit that goal i'm only gonna train 3 stats to 99 agility,reflex and discipline all the way to 150 circle. is that a good stragedy?


PS I'm from TF

((( to get everything to 50 by 100th, it'll cost you 15615 TDPs as a Human

You currently have 1193 and will only get 5535 TDPs from circling.. that leaves 10080 TDPs that you'll have to earn to get your goal...

Unless you literally train every single possible skill to suck out every tdp you can.. I don't see that happening... and even if you do train every skill, I don't see you making your goal... )))

Damn math teachers!

E.

A lot of the field of mathematics is devoted to finding creative ways to avoid having to do basic arithmetic. Computer science, too.

---

When it came time to throw bricks through that Starbucks window you left me all alone.h

these are the stats i have at 95th in prime.

Strength : 43 Reflex : 50
Agility : 50 Charisma : 36
Discipline : 40 Wisdom : 40
Intelligence : 40 Stamina : 40
Favors: 10
Concentration: 480 Max: 480
TDPs: 106

and i've trained alot of stuff that isn't necessary for circle.
so, i don't think you'll make it.

schvartz

<<If nothing else, maybe some Magic Using guilds will now feel the joys of "You cannot steal here.", at least for a while.--Solomon>>

It's just Lamarque, you get used to it :)


Jaedren says, "Alas, no Khri Ronco (Set it and forget it!). Woe."

>You can do it if you get the Death Dealer title and backtrain all armors and shield and all that in the meantime

Gonna have to go well past death dealer - that's just getting you 56 tdps per skill. Take them all to 325 each and you'll make it. My war mage is nearing death dealer and he doesn't have an overwhelming stat advantage. Looking at my close-to 100 character, it seems like 45 in all would be a good goal. I'm probably only going to make it to 43.


~Purehand