In the same manner I addressed the Rangers, I'm now going to put forth some effort here. So, what's your wishlist for thief dev?

What I'm not looking for:
* Fix this existing thing.
* No really, fix this thing.
* Bump/fix/change experience for this thing.

What I am looking for:
* It would be cool if we had this thing.
* New ideas.

What does this mean?
It means that in conjunction with other stuff, I'd like to work on a few Thief things and preferably, things you all might have a real interest in.

OMG WHAT IS THE ETA?!?!!
I really don't know. I give ETAs when I'm sure of them and I tend to provide updates on stuff.

Be prepared to answer clarifying questions. Please keep the thread on topic. If you have complaints, move them over to the complaints folder or to feedback. If you know of bugs, BUG them in game so staff can address them. Don't like someone's wishlist item? Take it to conflicts. Want to offer a potential add on to someone's wishlist item? P ost it in this thread.

---
NaOH+HI

Oh, yeah derp. Post deleted.

>>Bribing Guards

In addition, just because it deals with the justice system, jailbreaks. Hiding a lockpick somewhere (mouth...get your mind out of the gutter, people) and breaking out when caught. This would give a suitable rep hit, teach locks, and possibly be able to bribe your way out of going back to jail and getting your sack of stuff.

>>Poison Touch

Building on the subject of poisons, since they're coming down the line soon-ish, how about weapons with poison vial slots? A stiletto with a hidden compartment to put a vial and a small hole all the way up the blade. A vial would contain some small number of doses, and you could control whether you wanted to use the poison by toggling some mechanism so you aren't re-poisoning the same critter/player/whatever again and again and wasting your hard work.

>>Maneuver Swipe

I like it. I've got nothing to build on this, but it's a cool idea.

Can I begin by infuriating a few frequent thief posters on the boards? This is the best guild ever. Our abilities are incredible. Our potential damage output is Best Korea strong. Our weaknesses are relatively fair. Thank you for making us not awful. I am extremely happy with my thief mileage.

THAT SAID...

We're extremely dependent on engagement ranges with no missile abilities outside of snipe (which between you and me is a tiny bit lacking.)

MY IDEAS:

Something ranged!

TWO STRONG SUGGESTIONS:

AMBUSH BOLA

A thief-exclusive bola ability. Ambush bola! Dependent on your debilitation, stealth and LT for skill ranks and maybe power for raw contest ranks. From hiding, you toss your bola at any range you want. On a small success, tiny RT to the opponent. On a larger success: larger tangle RT and snare to the opponent. On a massive success: tangle RT and prone and snare status from tripping to the opponent. Make it doable on the same opponent only once every... I dunno... ten minutes or so for actual balance. It gives us a gap closer from missile and a chance to open up outside of complete engagement. Maybe make specialty bolas purchasable from thief shops. It'll help stimulate the thief shop economy!

AMBUSH BEANBAG? (working title)

A thief-exclusive snipe ability. Ambush beanbag! (working title) Dependent on your debilitation, stealth and ranged weapon skills for skill ranks and I think maybe finesse for raw contest ranks. From hiding, you use a special (thief shop only!) beanbag arrow or bolt or beanbag for slings or whatever, and you load it onto your weapon. Standard snipe, wait for full aim, boom, shoot. On a good success, unconscious. On a regular success, tiny stun. On a miss, a miss. This system would regulate itself because of how bloody long it takes to shoot and aim and load anyway.

SOFT SUGGESTIONS:

STRENGTH BUFF

Why not? Not necessary, it'd just help us cover more bases.



Thank you for your consideration.

My wishlist:
khri that gives us access to the Focus verb to see if an item is magical/lets us read as having a mana type while up.
A missle range disable, like a lasso to throw/trip someone with. Or sticky bomb.

Again, folks, if you're off topic, your post will be removed. I'm not interested in the negativity. Take it somewhere else or shut up.


//Bribing guards
Should the bribe erase the charge?
What charges should this work for?
Should this be proactive, requiring a thief to find a guard to pay off and be ignored for a bit or should it give the option when a guard first begins arrest?
How should reputation and confidence effect this?
What existing khri should help it?
How many times should it succeed in a given amount of time?

//Poison touch
Likely not on the until Poisons 3.0, but we can talk about it now, because this might be something I could do now.
How much should the poison be diluted?
How long should the "sweat" last for the touch?
Should it activate on TOUCH or combat maneuvers?


//Maneuver swipe
If we looked at this, it would only work for creatures because it opens a disgusting mess of consent issues if we allowed it for PvP. That said..
Should you be able to keep the weapon you swipe?
What should happen if you swipe a weapon that has auto-decay? (such as q'zhalatas because users are not allowed to have them.)
What skills should this teach?
If there's no weapon, what should happen?


I'll post some more once I catch up again.

---
NaOH+HI

> new ways to train Thievery.

We've been so vocal about this for so long, now I just assume all GMs are as constantly aware of it as I am, haha. So it didn't even occur to me to suggest. I for one want critter stealing, but if not that, at least the ability to steal from every NPC ever. Sure, some would have ridiculously high perception or other tricks. But dangit, there are all these guards and shopkeepers and guildleaders and I want to take all of their everythings. Is that a new enough idea for this list? =\

*Ambushes and Slips*
I'd like to see the slip and ambush systems merge a bit. I LOVE slip stalk, and think there's a lot of potential to simply type "slip" in place of ambush to do hide + ambush maneuver (hide + stalk + ambush maneuver with sufficient skill/circle?)

slip clout
slip slash
slip stun

Even better would be this behavior simply happening if one knows the slip, isn't in hiding, and attempts an ambush maneuver - that is, no change in command terminology. If you're not hiding and type ambush clout, you hide and clout.

Another, similar option would be to allow for autohiding/stalking after ambushes that currently do not do this (slash, clout, stun, ignite I think).

I'd also just generally like to see a Slip Swap (available to all the slip guilds).

I'd love to see a single-target, lower-RT version of ambush screen, such that we had cast single and cast area-type options. (I.e. I don't know why ambush sight went away)

Thievery
Love to see Tev's suggestion or something similar. Anything to make stealing runs not burn gweth charges, really.

Bribing Guards
>>Should the bribe erase the charge?

The base concept is that a Thief is skipping the "jail" part and, mechanically, still paying the fine. So instead of being arrested and the court saying you're fined a gold, you're bribing a guard a gold to make the charge go away. Maybe have a [minor?] reduction in how much it might cost to reward the Thief for being proactive about getting something taken care of. But in the long run it's not a way to circumvent fines as much as jail time and/or having to re-equip things and/or having to lose gweth charges.

>>What charges should this work for?

Preference is anything short of Forbidden Practices (because a guard wouldn't want to get tangled into that mess no matter what they're paid).

>>Should this be proactive, requiring a thief to find a guard to pay off and be ignored for a bit or should it give the option when a guard first begins arrest?

Definitely proactive. Maybe finding a shady guard with a connection to the Guild. If you're caught, you're past the point of asking for it to go away.

>>How should reputation and confidence effect this?

Maybe that's what could help determine "freebie" cooldown. IE: If you have a great rep + a ton of confidence, you can convince the shady guard to do you a solid and make ONE charge go away without cost ("You know me, I'm doing some great jobs here on behalf of the Guild and you know you'll be well rewarded in the long run for doing me a solid right now and just making this vanish.")

>>What existing khri should help it?

I don't think it needs a khri hook, but maybe a contact hook.

>>How many times should it succeed in a given amount of time?

I think bribing should always work, since it's generally/mechanically just making you pay off a fine with alternative route B vs the normal route. I don't think "keep gweth charges" and "not get your clothes back on" is a big enough advantage to require a cooldown. Definitely think the freebie should be a cooldown. I'd say make it similar to CRE for Necros. I think that's like 2-3 hours for a Necro in the low 100s. And, keep in mind it's just for evading one charge. So it's not like someone can spend 2-3 hours going on a mad theft rampage, getting caught left and right, and then make it all go away for free. This will let someone get rid of one thing they do. It's a safety net for those unlucky rolls, and it gives someone a financial reason incentive to do something else (just avoid getting in trouble for a 2-3 hours and you'll avoid losing any money in future mess-ups).

Poison touch
>>How much should the poison be diluted?
>>How long should the "sweat" last for the touch?

Would really depend on how much damage they do by default. Off the cuff, maybe 50% of the amount "sweated out" can transfer to the target.

Maybe think of it like a reverse-transference. Like when an Empath absorbs X points of poison from another player. So when a Thief sweats out X points of poison on a pulse of their anti-poison mojo, if they're grappled with someone that person gets 50% (or whatever amount)

>>Should it activate on TOUCH or combat maneuvers?

My preference is GRAPPLE, because there's already a skill check there and that means my brain doesn't have to figure out the mechanics past that. Would be funny if any physical-contact brawling/tactic move could cause it. Being able to SHOVE someone and give them poison could be funny.


Maneuver swipe
>>If we looked at this, it would only work for creatures because it opens a disgusting mess of consent issues if we allowed it for PvP. That said..
For PvP I say make it work like tingle and drop it to the at-feet slot (that's what Tingle does now, right?)

>>Should you be able to keep the weapon you swipe?
>>What should happen if you swipe a weapon that has auto-decay? (such as q'zhalatas because users are not allowed to have them.)

If it's the type that doesn't normally poof when touched, sure. Honestly, if it's easier to just have the critter drop it and require the Thief to pick it back up, I wouldn't be against it. I'm just promoting a stealth-version of being able to knock a weapon out of a mob's hand if you want to get around their parry (or just don't want to be hit by the weapon), similar to how tingle works. I really want a MANEUVER DISARM that anyone can use to disarm a critter similar to Tingle, but a Thief stealth version seems neat, too.

>>What skills should this teach? If there's no weapon, what should happen?

Would be neat if it taught stealth and thievery. Hey, a non-store stealing way to train thievery!

Since it would be a maneuver, there would be a cool down, so it might not necessarily lock the skill (and it throttles being able to disarm a full room or whatever), but it's something.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

I'd like a khri that scares things into disengaging from us and staying away. Like innocence except we're not innocent, so more fear/intimidation based =P Would be handy for stuff like not wanting to be bothered in lower level areas or when we catch an unlucky chain of stuns.

More museum style places would be great, any more interesting way to train thievery would be nice.

Also the ability to use Paladins as toboggans to slide down the ice road or any large hill really.

OK my bad I thought it was just melee weapons for some reason.

I'll throw in a vote for the double backstab. Sounds like a great 100th ability.

>>I don't think Bribing should be auto-matically successful.

Eh, I kinda like Bribing under the initial proposal because it's a safety net for falling victim to the RNG. I don't want it to then become another roll of the die.

Plus, I see it as less approaching a random guard and hoping to make a deal and more knowing a guy on the force who is complicit with the Guild already and can make problems go away for a fee.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

I have to agree that adding RNG to bribing would just make it more frustrating than helpful. The Thievery system and all the systems to support it are full of RNG and it gets old to have things not go your way more than they do.

I was so hoping you would post this idea. Yes please much.

// Jailbreaks
There's potential here, but the system sometimes moves you out of the cell really quickly for sentencing. It might be better altogether to look at smaller Penal Colony type things, and even that is fairly darn involved. Not waving you off, but just commenting.

// Weapons that hold poison
Probably something that I could ask Kodius about the viability of.

// Ambush Bola
Should it only work with bolas? Why not throwing blades/daggers?
Most Ambushes have a purpose, such as a stun, sight hinderance, etc. What is the purpose of this ambush?
What circle would it be appropriate to learn at?

// Ambush beanbag
Having seen discussions about special ammo before and how quickly they go down a gross rabbit hole of nope, I think as suggested here, it's not ideal, but the concept alone isn't bad.

// Strength Buff
Is this something thieves need? (legit, I'm not being smart here, tell me what it would be used for)

// Fan of knives
Ideally, we could fit this into an existing system. Would ambush work for that, provided you had a stack of blades?

// Khri that gives access to FOCUS for magical stuff
That might be really outside of what a khri does, but I'd have to look up staff definitions to be sure. On a similar note, what if this was an item in the thief shop that gave you temporary effect that let you utilize focus for awhile?

// More TC museum stuff or new ways to train thievery
Got any suggestions besides a museum? Those are ridiculously involved and I shudder to think about the mechs on that thing. :(

// Khri that boost defenses for open combat
Not likely to get actually approved, since so much of thief combat is geared towards stealth and being in the shadows, but at the same time, I can understand and hear the argument for getting some kind of bump to those after a stealth attack.

// Critter stealing
Honestly been spoken about among staff before, but I think no one was willing to tackle the policy issues and there's a strong disapproval for adding more things that can be trained in combat. We'd like to get people out of combat and RPing more, because.. this is a RP game.

// Stealing from NPCs
Might be closer to being something that could be done, actually. I'm not sure on viability.
How much of a reward of exp vs money do you think there should be?


// Maneuver Swipe addition
Atfeet could maybe work to solve some issues, but if the player already has something at their feet, it puts their item at risk and you at fault.

// Single target ambush screen-type thing
This might be skirting the bounds of this thread, but I'll comment on it anyway.
Should it be wrapped into the same ambush or a seperate one?

// Khri to trigger invisible on stun/immobile/prone
So, one you turn on, but is reactionary?
What's the timer range on it?
When should you learn it?
What tier should it be?
How many times should it work before it's done?
What's the cooldown?

// Concentration regen items
I think we have these, but it wasn't known for a long time that they were desired. They're about end quest level items, so I'm not sure how available we can make them, but I hear your plight.

// Garrotting
Sell it to me as an ambush.

// Backstab and remain hidden
It might be easier to sell it as backstab and successful immediate hide + stealth exp. Thoughts on that?

// Apply poison to target and remain hidden.
This happened as a bug once and it caused a lot of pvp warnings. I know -- I got one. For this reason alone, I'm going to tentatively give a flat no to this as it's proposed here.

// AoE attack but not on LT
So.. what is it based on? Elaborate here.

// OP 100th ability
???? You're not giving me much to reply to here. :p

// Contact fix all
This has potential to be doable, I think.
When is it learned?
What's the coin cost range?

// Maneuver disarm vs swipe
I mean, I think if I added a maneuver, it would have to hit everyone, but I could probably slide in stealth stuff for Thieves.

// khri that scares things into disengaging from us and staying away. Like innocence
What tier would it be?
Is it numbered shot or pulse?

// Backstab slit
Maybe better as an ambush. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable stepping into BACKSTAB and changing it from what it is.

// Change backstab to subterfuge
There may be an argument here. I'll be interested to hear more feedback on this topic, but I don't want to walk down the road of changing a guild in this manner just yet.


//Preview for lockpick carving
Kodius tends to put his systems into Test, so I'm sure you'll get this very opportunity.

// Not a GM NaOHHI thing
It's okay if you want to post something you know or feel is out of my wheelhouse. It's likely other GMs are reading along.

// Breaking and Entering
An actual home would be out of the question, but faux homes and businesses could be potential here. This would be a massive system, likely, and require some adhoc room and item creation.
When it comes to items you steal in a faux home, do you think you should keep them?
What if you could turn them in for rep/money?

// khri attacks
KHRI are typically a preparation of mind (and body?), not an action, from what I understand. AMBUSH is typically were the attacks live.


// Thief highway
I think what you're saying here is just more thief tunnels and shortcuts?

// Temple tunnels
There are already tunnels to the Temple, from the Gorbesh war, I think. None are tied to the Thieves guild.

// Lore and guildleaders
These require a Thief Advocate. While I'm not taking that role, you might get some of this in the bargain anyway.

// Elaborate breaking and entering examples.
I like what you've got here. When should a Thief have access to this?
Should it be only available to thieves?
What skill ranges are there?
Should it only be available in housing areas?
Should these be special areas that are NOT housing?
Should you get occasional tasks from a GuildLeader to go ransack one?

---
NaOH+HI

Component pouches.
The current ones limit to 30, and cannot be tied. It would be very nice to upgrade them to gem-pouch style sizes, and allow them to be tied.

Binning or pawning en-mass.
Allow the player to hand a container with stolen items in it to the pawnshop or the bin NPC, and bin/sell everything at once. If you need to steal mechanics, Mags uses similar ones for buying branches and sticks.

Revised Haven guild.
It would be really nice if the guild just stuck to one spot. It would be doubly nice if knowledge of the passages ability meant you didn't have to manage a manual passcode. Same goes for Shard. It really should be something my character can remember, rather than me having to write it down somewhere.

Khri attack
Depending on how...anime...you want to get, you could reference some things from Naruto or Claymore for bizarre things 'internal mental focus' allows you to do. Deliberately disjointing limbs to suddenly change your reach, etc. Silly, yes. But nominally possible for what Khri are. Not a huge fan, personally.

New stealing concepts:
I'd be happy with some type of symbiosis analog, even if it cost money. Training dummy, session, whatever. Or the ability to vastly handicap yourself at stealing (steal blind/quick) to alter the stealing contest itself in shops. Perhaps thief tasks where leader-X tells you to go steal 5 items in 10 minutes. Return with them, get some modest stealing bonus exp, some cash roughly equal to the pawn value, and some positive rep.

Disarm:
I'd be happy if it simply vastly reduced or completely disabled shield, armor, or parry. I don't want to take their weapons, I just want to be able to hit them more/harder, or have them hit me less. For weapons/shield, you could act it as the thief severing wrist tendons (it's a very advanced form of hamstring aka ambush slash), for armor you're getting in and slashing their stays or whatever. The person would adjust after X time.

Bribe guard/etc.
I don't really care how it works as long as I get to remove my warrant and don't lose a charge on my gweth. That's literally it for me. Charge me 20% increase or whatever to cover the bribe fee, I'm thrilled. It should work every time, khri could reduce the excess charge. Maybe a freebie once per 24 hours if your total charge is less than 5 gold, or a 10% discount if it's over that.

>// Khri to trigger invisible on stun/immobile/prone

>So, one you turn on, but is reactionary?
Yes
>What's the timer range on it?
Long duration, due to the protective nature of it, cost to run should be pretty low
>When should you learn it?
After Silence, before Vanish
>What tier should it be?
Mid tier
>How many times should it work before it's done?
I would say triggering it should take a chuck of conc, make it ablative-like
>What's the cooldown?
Long cooldown probably

>// Garrotting*
>Sell it to me as an ambush.

I'll give it a shot.
Let's say you go for this ambush. Make it go thru a series of maybe 3 different checks, similar to what an actual struggle would be like.
First, backstab vs perc check for the initial grab, if successful, maybe a stun or something.
Second, finesse vs reflex check, maybe it does some neck damage at this point, maybe unconscious?
Lastly, SvS check that will kill the target if failed.

>// Backstab and remain hidden
>It might be easier to sell it as backstab and successful immediate hide + stealth exp. Thoughts on that?

Sounds awesome and useful. Can't see anyone not wanting something like that.

>// Apply poison to target and remain hidden.
>This happened as a bug once and it caused a lot of pvp warnings. I know -- I got one. For this reason alone, I'm going to tentatively give a flat no to this as it's proposed here.

Allow me to modify the suggestion to be some kind of poisoning ambush then? Make it fairly high level, well after learning actual poisoning. If successful, target is automagically poisoned. The benefit would be using a stealth/stat check as opposed to weapon check.

>// Contact fix all
>This has potential to be doable, I think.
>When is it learned?

80th? 90th?

>// AoE attack but not on LT
>So.. what is it based on? Elaborate here.

Gotta use finesse vs reflexes. Too many abilities take LT or brawling into effect already when we aren't a weapon skillset guild.
There was mention of some kind of stacked blades ambush ability, maybe that could be AoE somehow.

I'll again post several ideas again that I've posted in the past. Some have been modified to be more current. There are a lot here that could be shared with a few other guilds, or open up whole new systems like dirty fighting to be shared with barbs.

In thinking some more, something else I'd like to see would be for thieves to be able to advance, and not restrict someones movement... so they didn't know they were being advanced on.

When sparring for instance, and even playing cat and mouse tactics... as soon as someone tries to move and they are being advanced on, they know it. I'd like a check to see if we can just move with them. Something like a stealth check to just match their steps. I'd say stalking... but yeah.

So Paladum is standing there searching, looking for Joe Thief who is hidden.

Joe thief starts advancing, unbeknownst to Paladum.

Paladum decides he's tired of waiting in that room, or that Joe isn't there so he walks off. While Joe sticks with him, finishing his advance to melee. Maybe require shadowstep to be active?


And while we're at it and I'm making suggestions...

The OTHER thing I was thinking about the other day was some new ways to use athletics. We should be able to TUMBLE based on an agility/athletics check to enable the Thief to be able to slip to the flank or rear of our target however we choose. If we HAVE to share the ability, since it seems everyone gets our stuff these days and we don't keep much for ourselves... But if we HAVE to share, I would limit whatever other guild to simply tumbling to the flank, while Thieves can tumble to the rear or flank. We should be able to do it from hiding with a hard stealth check akin to a stalking check. You could even work it into tactics by having the Thieves able to tumble behind their opponent and use an ambush it following for like a Thief combo. Tumbling commands could be Jump, Roll, Dive, and Flip.


More things I'd still like to see or revisit-

**Removing the hard thievery req, or changing backstab entirely. We are the only guild with two guild skills. And one of them, everyone can train. Keeping Thievery in your top 8 is fine, but requiring a hard req is silly.

**Renaming of Backstab to Sneak Attack as it will make more sense to broaden its usage. And perhaps you'll see why I ask a bit further down.

**I'd like to see a toggle verb for thieves to make most action verbs like get/put/stow/drop be performed silently with no room messaging if they wish; the contest would be based off of the thieves’ stealth skill vs. the people around him and their perception. If successful, the thief could get items from his pack, or sheath without being seen by the rest of the room. If the thief fails the check, people just see it as a normal action (unless actually using slip). Think of this like trying to hide your spell preps or whatever. But not trying to out us.

**Backstab/Ambush- (this is just how I would see it working better)
The first check is from an average of the attackers’ stealth vs. the targets perception. If that check is passed then it applies a bonus to the attackers’ weapon ranks using the attackers sneak attack skill. Those ranks are then processed against the targets evasion. On a full success, the maneuver will negate all parry and shield ranks of the target leaving only evasion. Upon failure of the initial check, the attack is treated as a normal attack using the attackers’ normal weapon ranks against the targets full defenses. Full success dictates the usage of evasion at 80% of their effective ranks, partial success puts the targets defenses at 90% (for reaction time), and full failure puts the target at 100%.

Note: Messaging for a Dual backstab will pretty much be the damage of a normal BS and then include a second attack to a vital area with the weapon in the off hand. The "dual" effect of it will actually be a regular backstab, with a weapon in the offhand that strikes a second time to a vital area as soon as the other attack is done. That second attack would use the offhand weapon skill and have all penalties associated to it applied for the second strike... including a double RT for a critical miss. Higher skill levels could work the RT down some.

For a non-thief ambushing, similar mechanics are applied but there is no weapon rank boost from sneak attack ranks and partial failure uses 95% of the targets defenses. Full failure still uses 100%.

**I'd also like to see all edges able to backstab (even if it has a restriction on weapon type like a cinqueda) It doesn't have to be pretty... Just let it happen.

Some new dirty fighting...

**Blind- Essentially, you would be spitting, kicking dirt, throwing salt, or gouging at the eyes of your opponent. A bit of an expansion to dirt.
Requires a pouch of dust/contact poison or whatever substance you wish to use to throw into your targets eyes. Full Success uses Evasion at 85%; partial success uses evasion and shield at 95%, and full failure results in evasion and shield at 100%. Unless at melee range where the target can attempt to block the movement from the attacker with their parry skill. If no weapon is held and the attacker is at melee, instead of trying to throw something, they will gouge at the eyes. Uses thrown weapons skill as for the weapon calc or brawling for the unarmed version.

**Coldcock- Uses sneak attack mechanics. Upon success, target is rendered unconscious. A partial success grants a stun to the target, and a failure acts as a regular attack. This move is performed using a blunt weapon such as a sap or cudgel, and can also be performed using the butt of the stock on a heavy or light crossbow or by using the pommel of an edged weapon. If done via pommel/haft/butt of a crossbow, upon failure the attack acts as the normal pummel attack.
*Throat Slit- An edged weapon attack, which would require the Thief to be behind the target. Performed while hiding for a bonus. A coup de grace of sorts. Requires max stealth success to pass check.

**Garrote- An attack performed by the Thief requiring a coil of rope or wire in your hand (from the guild shop), and being behind the target. Performed while hiding for a bonus
Uses normal sneak attack mechanics. Requires a length of rope/chain/wire (perhaps a slick general worn wristlet) to perform the move. Full success uses evasion at 85%, and then a strength check takes place. The initial check is pure brawling vs. evasion, if the attacker wins there is a 5 second pulse before the check continues. At this time there is a brawling check added to the strength check allowing the attacker to check against the targets brawling - 10% to resist and struggle. If the target wins, he’s free. If he loses the check then there is another 5 second pulse and another 10% loss to skills. Checks continue in 5 second pulses until target takes enough damage to go unconscious. Using wire the attacker has a chance to remove the head of the target after 3 pulses. This move can be used unarmed using the same mechanics, but using a choke hold instead of Garrote to render the target unconscious. If the thief does NOT use the special items to garrote their enemy, it defaults to a choke hold

**Slash/Kneecap- Uses sneak attack mechanics. Using the edge of your blade you slice the hamstring of the target taking it to its knees. Can also be used with a blunt weapon used to land a crippling blow to the back of the knee. Pulses every 5 seconds against health if target is standing again after attacked.

**Throat Slit- An edged weapon attack, which would require the Thief to be behind the target. Can be performed while hiding (using sneak attack mechanics similar to Garrote), or while in the open (using normal combat mechanics).

**Attack of opportunity- Can be used with Sneak attack mechanics or brawling. Is used when grappled, the attacker will gouge a finger into a bleeding/broken wound attempting to aggravate the wound opening the wound/causing more damage to the area.

**Disarm- A called attack targeted at a limb, used to make the target less capable in combat. The Thief will attempt to disarm the target, knocking a weapon from his hand. Can be performed while hiding (using sneak attack mechanics), or while in the open (using normal combat mechanics).

**Twine- Effectively able to throw something (bola?) at their target to tangle their feet, making their opponent fall to the ground and be bound at the legs, requiring the target to loose their tangled limbs before standing again. Can be performed while hiding (using sneak attack mechanics), or while in the open (using normal combat mechanics).

**Bind and Gag- An ability that allows the Thief to tie their target at the feet and hands once unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. Primarily used to ensure a safe getaway. Requires the Thief to be in the open.

**Finally be able to make bombs and other devices that can be used in combat or everyday situations. (Smoke bombs, Frag Grenades, Flash Bangs, Mana Traps (to suck all mana from a room momentarily or maybe from a person), Poison Grenades, Timed Charges)


Non Combat, but I'm on a roll so here's some more

Some Contact expansions...

*Fix All (leather/metal)- Takes ALL of your metal or leather items that are damaged, as long as they are in open containers and takes them to be fixed, returning with a deed/ticket.

*Fence- Selling your stolen goods in a container to the black market for a cut of the profit. Better than pawnshop prices.

*Stalker- Following someone (NPC or Player Character) possibly unseen if the hiring characters stealth skills are much higher than the targets (Stalker operates at 60% of the characters base stealth skills... yes people could detect if they are being followed). Contact Stalker sends location information to the familiar window… like when a fam follows you.

*Fall Guy- (only in town) You would pretty much pay for a hireling to dress like you to lead the guards astray while you were wanted.

*Clean Up- You get a hireling to "hide the bodies", "talk" to witnesses, and take care of evidence. Only works on the "unseen masses" (NPC's) not player characters. Upon using this hireling he can lower the chance his actions will incur a thugging/arrest.

I'd like to see our contacts expanded to neutral or even wilderness areas as well with good rep. And I don't mean TOP rep either, because the rep system is currently far too difficult to manage. Some of our contacts should be able to be used in areas outside the town, such as at ferry landings or on trade roads for the fence hireling. And some would work as long as they were initiated while the target was STILL IN TOWN, such as the Stalker hireling. Meaning, as long as you sent the stalker after someone before they left town, the game assumes he could find the whereabouts fairly easily to track them down and get on their trail before they left the city.


*Fam/Companion proof--(Guild Shop Item)
Would be able to apply a salve or enchantment to your boots to mask your tracks/scent from any of the familiars or companions tracking you. The point being a mechanical means that’s not tied to khri.

*Lucky Coin-(received at 100th Level from a Guild Leader)
A coin made of an extremely hard metal, the Thiefs choice of denomination and type. It would stay with the Thief at all times. Can't be dropped or lost. Can be used as a file or sharpened edge to cut through rope or chain (if time permits) when bound. Traditionally (in DR anyways), the only thing you have on you in jail is coins and manacles, so I don't see why this wouldn't be effective. I figure it’s meant to just look like a coin at a glance, so it’s entirely possible that it would be overlooked. I also think it would be cool to verb it, with a fluff verb or two, like a coin walk over the knuckles, or flipping it heads or tails (with the option of being able to choose which side shows) Would go hand in hand with my bribery idea for the stealing system.

*Guard Bribery-(As part of the stealing system)
Must have more than 1 (platinum piece?) on you at the time of capture (also charisma based). Guards drag you to an alley and give you the choice of buying them off. If you say no, they beat you and toss you in jail anyways. If you say yes, it costs you a gold per circle and there's a charisma check to see if they WANT to let you go (They may just take your money and beat you up some more before taking you to jail anyways). While given the option, you can chance an escape with your lucky coin by cutting ropes. If you escape, and you can, you can fight it out there in the alley, or run. Your fine is doubled if you run, and your fine may increase if someone were to find the body of the person you just killed to get away. It may be beneficial to use a contact to help with that.

As for some other changes
First off, depending on what part of town you are in, you will be stolen from by the countless NPC thugs that wander the streets and mingle with the crowds. The longer you sit around in one area the worse off you are. That way people avoid sitting around, and stay away from Thief turf where there is MUCH more activity. This way, if they have business, they get in and get right back out.
With this, perhaps we can see new “crowds” in the game. In town, there are tons of “unseen masses” that we can utilize to train stealing. I’d like to mark the crowds, and be able to steal from them, actually cutting purses.

I'd rather see stealing be quest based for the players. As in, you talk to your Guild Leader and he tells you to steal an item, you do and get a certain amount of exp. You would be required to steal multiple items of gradual difficulty per level. This way you aren't spending days and days stealing, and its actually fun. Some kind of stealing quests could be hijacking NPC wagons from the trade roads, where the thief would make a show of force and take the wagon, and then sell its goods to the black market. I'd like to see lots of "quest" based action for the Thieves so that they aren't all preying on players.
If a non thief steals in town, (PC stealing or Shops) they are beaten down by the guild thugs to teach them not to step on their toes.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

>>Lastly, SvS check that will kill the target if failed.

I don't think SvS is allowed to kill a target. Or even cause a bleeder.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.