<<If PVP is such a small part of the game, I'm not sure why there's such a large pushback (by what appears to only be HLC) against making changes that would make the game more fun for everyone.>>

I would argue that there is a very small pushback from a very small group of players (who clearly have issues with not being able to kill the top players) to bring HLCs more in line with the rest of the game, while the vast majority of the game doesn't care about this and would rather see development devoted elsewhere.

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<<<Damn dude, you're really triggered. I guess it really threatens your stance maybe because it has some validity to it?>>>

lol U mad bro. Could have predicted that response.

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<Pointing out things that work well in other game is a prudent exercise. We should continue thinking of ways to improve DR

It would be nice to actually explore ideas but on these forums more than not it seems futile.

>I think what makes dragonrealms unique is the very fact that there is real years and real time built in. Dragonrealms has not felt like work for me rather a long journey. I'd hate to see that journey shortened or somehow feel less than or cheapened because someone needs to be able to pvp with gort after six months.


As a very wise person said on another thread in these forums...

>What I was saying is that the current way dragonrealms is set up you CAN have the game the way you want it to be.

How you play the game and how others play the game is different. You can play it how you want and get enjoyment. If you want it to be a long grind, you can personally make it that way yourself. Some people (that truly love the game) are just making suggestions on how to better the game.

>DISCOTEQ21: I would argue that there is a very small pushback from a very small group of players (who clearly have issues with not being able to kill the top players) to bring HLCs more in line with the rest of the game, while the vast majority of the game doesn't care about this and would rather see development devoted elsewhere.

I understand how you could view it like that, because most of this discussion seems to follow discussion about how its unfair when one higher character ganks a lower character. I hope you can understand that another interpretation of this whole shebang is that there are a few people who by virtue of having played longer, have more ranks than most players, and want to remain on the top of the ladder. They are a minority of the game, but clearly have issues with not being able to kill everyone else in the game, and are extremely resistant to any suggestions or notion of rendering the game a more enjoyable for all PvP playing field.

I do agree though that most of the game is absolutely content doing their own thing and not PvPing in any capacity, but I am personally glad that balance issues are addressed from a PvE and PvP perspective. 3.0 did a good job. Theres work to be done still, and indeed, some of the issues at this point regarding 'PvP imbalance', are due to issues that were never addressed to begin with.

Again, I understand that we dont agree on this matter, but I also dont think its reasonable to take the position of 'well i like it this way so it cant change'. Just like Im not taking the position of 'well I dislike it this way so it must'. Furthermore, the argument of 'well I suffered through that grind so everyone else must too' is not a valid argument for the same reason 'i dont want to work for a goal and therefor dont have to' is not a valid argument.

>Armifer:PvP is influenced by both concerns, but I don't think the implications are going to be limited to PvP.

And I hope we see these issues resolved in a way that lets DR become or remain a dynamically enjoyable game beyond a long slog/grind/'make the numbers go up' fest.

Honesty, outside of the same couple of people who complain about any change outside of their ideas, there has been some great suggestions I hadn't though about. I appreciate the stuff some of you have thrown out there and would love to see any of it worked on. That arena though, totally needs to be in the Barb guild, give the guild a reason to exist outside of ask ag about exp.

>>1) Anything that makes DragonRealms progression intuitively comparable to "work one must get through" as opposed to "a video game that we play for fun" is suspect on that ground alone, regardless of whether it is the norm right now<<

This is a matter of perspective. Plenty of players find this (what you call work) fun and derive satisfaction from it.

>>2) A character development arc that takes man-years of playing to reach endgame (insofar as there's one of those at all) may be detrimental to the greater longevity of DragonRealms as a video game. Not enough conversation has gone into consciously deciding what <<

This seems to contradict itself. It seems the logevity has been kept afloat by players existing in this paradigm. If it's oh so bad, why are we all chugging along year after year? I have never played or invested in any other game as long as I have DR (only 7.5 years,BTW).

Some common thread is keeping us all at it, even GMs, all the while attracting new players. IMO, keep building on that, not what we cannot agree on. Examples of what most people want to see robustified: guild development, events, GVG balance, completing crafting systems, etc.

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

So this is last time nudge, further bickering will result in a 30-day time out for those involved.


Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor

If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.

Interesting thread just catching up on eet. Not saying I agree with any pvp changes in this aspect first off because it would devalue what people have earned for 5-10 years. Also agree with it not effecting the aspect that the people who pvp constantly will still win because we know how to pvp better than the people who don't but will possibly give the people who dont pvp a chance to learn more without fear of camping etc. In the end we really have no say in what's gonna happen. The choice is being made regardless what is said in this thread.

" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but if I'm right... "

balance of classes is the toughest thing to do in a pvp mmo of any sort from what i've experienced and read.

throw in years of rank attainment and disparity, it would be quite a feat to do it correctly and also fairly.

probably thinking way outside the box is required.

-Munch-

>>Not that it has much weight, but the argument for the game is akin to what they would be asking in RL. It would be like going to a Jiu-jitsu gym and asking to be a blackbelt without putting in the years of work. The real issue here is that those crying foul are the ones that expect a fantasy medieval text game to be easy.

No, it's like comparing a game to other games out there. In this case specifically I believe both MUD and non-MUD were used.

>>1) Anything that makes DragonRealms progression intuitively comparable to "work one must get through" as opposed to "a video game that we play for fun" is suspect on that ground alone, regardless of whether it is the norm right now.

I like this, and I wish more players would understand how the gaming environment has shifted in the past 20 years

>>2) A character development arc that takes man-years of playing to reach endgame (insofar as there's one of those at all) may be detrimental to the greater longevity of DragonRealms as a video game. Not enough conversation has gone into consciously deciding what the arc of playing DragonRealms looks like.

My only concern with this statement is what seems to be some people's issue, tangentially. I feel very strongly that Dragonrealms could maintain it's current paradigm if people nad not been gaming the system for the past XX years. Granted, prime is not plat, and that's certainly understandable and appreciated, but there are people/characters who I know started playing well after I did who are 3 to 4 times higher in skill ranks than I am, primarily because I don't script combat. I don't mean this as a finger pointing statement, but more a nature of the game. I want to see a game where it's not about the time you spend staring at the screen (aka watching netflix), but the time you spend engaging with the players and system itself. If that means the entire skill based paradigm is changed to something more flexible, so be it. If people are going to leave over that kind of massive change, so be it. The nature of Dragonrealms and what it was meant to be was always about the expansive mechanics compared to modern games, and the rich roleplay environment that has always been, if not mandatory, at least respected.

The fact that people are obviously AFK scripting away just to get a little better at something (out of perceived necessity), and that people use "lol" when speaking are the biggest issues that Dragonrealms Prime faces.

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"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh

Rezz

PvP setting 'even' (e.g.,) would weed out the hlcs who have and have not the nerve to test their actual knowledge of PvP against all comers. hlcs, who can best people because years of training has rewarded them with some useful combat insights, will be regaled with a measure of excellence never before available. Those who bought their character, thus lack the necessary pvp experience, will either never set to 'even' (or whatever) or embarrass themselves.

Those willing to chance it facilitate the opportunity for really interesting (next-level exciting) higher-scaled events between small groups of adversarial cliques (with some backbone); families; clans; entire provinces. This without a single hlc running the table on all adversaries, picking them of one by one, and in mannerless perpetuity.

If the coding wasn't prohibitively complicated, management could even run events with a temporary option to go 'even' for just the duration.

In conclusion. There would be a new measure of excellence in the game ("Evil Johnny is legitimately the best pvper given he wins all the time on the'even' setting against other ballsy 'eveners'). And it would give a platform for lower levels to have more action, possibly facilitating more skill based, possibly much larger-scaled, nail-biting, combative events.

I win 2 years later.