This topic exists?! Nah, just kidding. I knew it was here...really...ahem. Ok, this is my take on the events tath took place between the end of gemstone and the beginning of DragonRealms.

First off, we know that DR takes place many thousands of years after Gemstone. We don't know how many thousands. Could be millions of thousands. Now i'm looking at the GSIII history site and using what I can recall off the top of my head of the DR timeline while downloading a copy of Kiki's Delivery Service by the same guy that made Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke and typing whatever comes to mind while I wait for my slow arse computer to bring up the site. Don't worry once I get under way it'll be a bit more of a serious post.

<waits for page to load>

Anyone seen the new Tom Petty amv with Kiki's Delivery Service? It's pretty good.

<waits some more>

Ok, it's loaded. First let me start by saying that these books were written by the races, not by the gods themselves. And most of the age of myths was handed down through word of mouth and we all know how reliable THAT is.

When the One wed the Void as it says in the Immortals, and produced the gods, there's a similar event that took place in GSIII. In GSIII, the Nothingness turns into 'the Many'. There were 6 original Many and then the Other appears, tells the One that he is what One isn't. So then they create 5 more Many of darkness, and one Many of both. That's 14 beings total. According to my theory these are NOT the gods we know of in DR. They then sculpted Those Who Rule and Those who Oppose, and Those who Help. Now think, 3 catagories. A good, a bad and a neutral. Aspects of the gods. There's no mention as to how man of Those who X there are, and I'm guessing there's 13. There's also the Many which could equate to the Heralds that the gods turn to. Now this is only one theory of the gods. There's another possibility.

The arkati arrived after the Ur-Daemon war with the dragons, and there's stories of actual interactions with people by them. "They walked the lands as teachers, leaders and guides." Sound like the DR gods to you? They also have rather remarkable similarities to the DR gods, and they even say that they are what GSers refer to as gods.

<blah blah blah, stuff happens>

Go to world dragon.
The moons are mentioned here: http://www.play.net/gs3/info/tomes/moons.asp There's a black one, Lornon, a white one, Liabo, a red one Tialok, and another red one that's very small and ORBITS LIABO, Miraki. Pay no attention to the text, just look at teh OOC notes. In fact, I'll post them here.

>OOC Note. Lornon, represented in the image here, is a dark moon which once a year becomes washed in a sickly blood-red hue. Thousands of years from now the moon will be permanently stained crimson, while Liabo will take its place as the dark ruler of the heavens.

>OOC Note. Liabo, as represented in the image here, is as it will be viewed thousands of years into the future by adventurers on a continent far away. Its surface has since been burned and scarred by the terrible cataclysm leading to the fall of Makiri.

Lornon becomes Yavash, Liabo will become Katamba, and that leaves Xibar and Grazhir to be accounted for.

>Shaped irregularly from what the most sensitive of telescopes are able to tell, the surface is dark and featureless, and strangely smooth. Another curiosity is that Makiri was once cited to be much smaller centuries back by astrologers at the time, perhaps this is due to Makiri's orbit shifting slightly over the millennia so that it is closer than it was before.

Irregular, smooth and growing. I think we've found an egg, more specifically, Grazhir. It orbits the Ivory moon, so you can see where we may have confused it at the time of hatching. And the last moon, Tilaok has a layer of red gas surrounding it that gives it it's color. Perhaps the hatching of the World Dragon blew all the gas from Tilaok and onto Lornon. And perhaps the actual surface of Tilaok is blue. Xibar. All moons present and accounted for...sorta.

I believe the exact text is that "The world dragon emerged from the Ivory Moon[Liabo]...scorched Katamba,[the same Ivory Moon, now scorched]" Now, if the dragon were to hatch while it's behind Liabo, scorch it before any future survivors see it, it would appear as though it hatched from the ivory moon, and Liabo was just replaced by Lornon. Now, I'm assuming that anyone who survived had a minimal understanding of astrology, as they had telescopes that could see the surfaces of the moons, so a great deal of astronomical knowlege must have been lost. Thus all moon magi died.

WD Destroys all civilized life on Elanthia. Takes thousands of years to become civilized again, and destroys most of the knowledge about the world. This is where most of the inconsistancies such as names come from. We develop different names for the gods, and names for thier good or bad moods. Some of the original races survive and evolve. Now let's look at the races between GS and DR.

The society of half elves go extinct. Apperantly half-elves can mate with eachother, but their creation from elf and human is a complete fluke now, through thousands of years of evolution within their own species. Dark elves and elves become one society, as they have the ebon and other darker colors available. Humans, Halflings, Elves, Dwarves, obviously don't change much. Gnomes, Rakash, Prydean and Kaldar come from places not even mentioned in GSIII, so we dont' have to worry about them. This leaves 3 DR races unaccounted for: Gor'tog, S'kra Mur and Elotheans. Gor'tog could easily have evolved either from GS orcs or Giantmen. S'kra Mur lived on the islands, and I'm not entirely sure the islands were discovered in GSIII's time. And if the Elothean claim of being crated by the gods' will holds water, we don't have to worry about them.

Now we head to the tricky stuff. Mana. Glancing over their spheres of magic, we see...

Elemental - There's a no brainer...or is it?

Sorcerer - Necromancy...or is it?

Ranger/Empath - Life...or is it?

Spirit - Obviously relies on Holy magic...or does it?

There was only one type of mana back then...or was there? Since we have all these effects that come from the same types of mana that we use now, it CAN'T be true. And they obviously weren't using all 4 at once because that's not possible (life/holy).

Let's take a look at the professions.
Warrior/rogue - Minor spirit, minor elemental. So he can use holy and elemental mana. Good for him. Holy and elemental mix. He's using both. (fries arms)

Empath - Spirit...and life? Nope, that sure doesn't work.

So, we have some problems. The warrior's gonna blow himself up, the empath just can't exist. They must be using...LUNAR. Yes, lunar mana was the only type they had learned to sense and manipulate at the time, and their mana level stays constant wherever they go, even though the others did exist at the time. Just like moon mages now. Yes, lunar surely is the answer. Since their technology in telescopes was more advanced than ours, why not their magic too? They must have found a way around blowing your limbs off on occasion. This does, in fact, work because through our common use of runes we know that any mana type can be used to fuel any spell matrix.

Now, who wants to head over to GSIII and prophecize all this? We can hold up big signs that say "The world will end in <insert year here>!"

Steel.

---

http://www.quotations.com

Heh. It was just a little innocent life sculpting.


-Path

The Fyearikloa'i Rensh'a
http://bakshiloa.elanthianunderground.com/

I'm a bit late to the topic, but wanted to chip in here:

The magic connection becomes quite a bit easier if you ignore the recent changes in DR's 'Magic canon.' This isn't a slam at the new defination of magic, but note that any connection between GSIII and DR classes were made years ago before this was a glimmer in anyone's eyes.

I propose a fairly simple split: Wizards became Warrior Mages, Sorcerers became Moon Mages.

The Sorcerer to Moon Mage connection is one that's been hashed, rehashed, and served with a side of bacon over the years. Somewhere after the entire 'Sorcery is evil magic that must be wiped out' craze hit, we shift to the existance of lunar mages and some sort of deep cultural fear of it. Lunar magic is nearly wiped out before some of the remaining practioners band together and point an occult shotgun at the Empire.

There's also at least one spell (Mental Blast) that translates straight from the Sorcerers to the Moon Mages. I recall thinking a few others fit the Moon Mage mold as well, in concept if not in implementation, but that's the only one that springs to mind.

Larcus' Player

not sure if this has anything to do with anything else in this folder, but if it helps. Gemstone is supposedly like 3500 years in the past from Dragonrealms. I wrote this idea one time to have a quest where the DR folks could have a tourney with the Gemstone folks...caus my brother plays Gemstone and would be cool to beat that lil "ALL powerful" sorcerer down, hehe. but anyway, the GM wrote back saying it was a great idea but the mechanics of the two games would be impossible to combine into a quest so it got shot down. But that's where I heard about the 3500 years in the past thing.

Galear, Commoner who would really like to beat down Sorcerer Sorolos.

As I posted once, Simu Melissa(Solomon's counterpart) said that DR and GS3 take places on different sides of the world.

Most of the 'little' things scattered around our part of DragonRealms linking it to GS3(such as a certain tree) are strictly due to early GMs being pulled from GS3 and deciding to give some "memories" for the(then) mainly GS3-originated population of DR.

So...we might perhaps sail forth and hit the continent that GS3 takes place on. Who knows what will be there.

I can say with confidence that there's more than a 3500 year gap between the two.

-Chris

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Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is...

>>Now, who wants to head over to GSIII and prophecize all this? We can hold up big signs that say "The world will end in <insert year here>!"

August 2003. ;)

There is currently a worldwide plot taking place in Gemstone's Elanthia called "The War of Nations". It all started with a comet, and ...well, so much has happened, I'm not even sure what to mention and what not, and most of it wouldn't make any sense to most DR players. I mean, if I said Krolvin, Czag Dubra, or G'Bruk, what would it mean to most of you?

The dwarves are dying from a plague, blockades and barriers are falling, and prophets and seers foretell the coming of the end. The dark gods wage war on the power of the Goddess of Rebirth and...well, who knows what the Ithzir want those rings for [I sure don't].

Come this September, Gemstone 3 will cease to exist as a Simutronics game. The world as it is known there is coming to an end, and Gemstone IV will take its place [with five new races, three new "guilds" AND separate mana for each magic type as someone mentioned earlier in this thread.] ;)

If anyone wants to know more [it's way too much go into here], here are a few links with more info.

http://www.gs3news.com/events/won/
http://www.play.net/gs3/news/gemstone_iv/more.asp

Just for kicks, after my sig I'll post two little cuts from logs of prophets speaking about what they foresee is to come.

Wheeee!

Kay

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Urutei says in Giantman, "The destruction of everything... except for the sky and the ice."
Urutei says in Giantman, "And the snow owl cried to me, open your eyes, for there is much that you must see."
Urutei says in Giantman, "I awoke, and I went out into the darkness... and, as I gazed up at the heavens, I saw the comet for the first time."
Urutei says in Giantman, "And then the owl from my dream flew to me, and its eyes were as green as emeralds..."
Urutei says in Giantman, "And it said many things."
Urutei says in Giantman, "The ice will spread... south."
Urutei says in Giantman, "Until there is naught but ice..."
Urutei says in Giantman, "If you follow the Path of the Sky... you will be able to go into the sky, when the path is finally open."
Urutei says in Giantman, "Then, when all is covered with ice and snow..."
Urutei says in Giantman, "Those who have gone into the sky will survive..."
Urutei says in Giantman, "And they may return again, when the snow has melted... or remain, as they choose."
Urutei quietly says in Giantman, "The gods themselves will die."
Urutei quietly says in Giantman, "And only the ice will remain... the ice, and those who are safe in the sky."
Urutei says in Giantman, "All things..."
Urutei gravely says in Giantman, "All this will be gone."

---

Alandrial says, "Citizens of Wehnimer's Landing..."
Alandrial says, "First blood has come..."
Alandrial says, "She of Power has fallen..."
Alandrial says, "War shall follow..."
Alandrial says, "It is a curse..."
Alandrial says, "To see such tragedy..."
Alandrial says, "War shall occupy the fools..."
Alandrial says, "Yet the Ice will come..."
Alandrial says, "Your kind's only salvation lies in the Sky..."
Alandrial says, "It will come to an End..."
Alandrial says, "A silent ending...so tragic."
Alandrial says, "Tell them of the Sky..."
Alandrial says, "Tell them of the great opening...that all eyes shall see..."

>So you are telling me that the game is ending? Does this mean that characters will be wiped and everyone >starts new? Interesting, and terrifying at the same time <g> Thanks for the links, it makes great reading




I was sort of wondering this too, anyone know? I'm sort of curious.

______________________________________
Ysselt Ja'Haadraan, adar
"Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillondus"
_____________________________________

Amazing. And very interesting. VERY.

______________________________________
Ysselt Ja'Haadraan, adar
"Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillondus"
_____________________________________

That's gotta be one fun RP event. Fighting against the apocalypse.


Steel.

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Please do not post messages or suggestions in the Guild Guru area here or anywhere else on the boards. - GM Dalzien

>>hmmm. maybe they are making the worlds more compatible?
so eventually the 2 could "meet up"?<<

I've considered this myself.


______
When I'm good, I'm very good, and when I'm bad, I'm better.
- Mae West

<< Simu-Melissa and the GS staff said current characters can port over to the new system. There will be level reductions, all player skills and spells will be replaced / reassigned / redone / rechosen, but the specific details aren't released just yet.

Back in 1989-1990 when Gemstone III (I.C.E. version) was being developed, and Gemstone 2 players were told that our world would be ending, we were told that some manner of 'character equity' would be transferable to the new game. I don't remember if names were included. In any case, it never happened. Everyone started from scratch in GSIII, though I think there was an initial attempt to allow people to keep their names if they wanted them.

Of course that was 13 years ago and there were in the low hundreds of players, at most, involved...

Glenlivet

P.S. still waiting for word on where Gemstone 2 fits into this grand history... can't let the powers that be forget about us, even if they really want to ;). When DR started we more or less titled it the Age of Dreams (Dreamheart coined it; she was with us in Elanthia then), and placed it at the misty dawn of time, long before GSIII.

>hmmm. maybe they are making the worlds more compatible? so eventually the 2 could "meet up"?
-- Gonif

Tonight, the "secret" new fifth race for the upcoming Gemstone IV was unvieled during a player-run festival. Why is this interesting to you folks? Take a look at one of them:

You see Nalhan the Healer.
He appears to be an Erithian.
He appears to be in the prime of life. He has almond-shaped somewhat vertically slit-pupilled blue eyes and pale alabaster skin. He has a bald head. He has an angular face and slightly pointed ears. He appears to have a willowy, thin frame.
He is in good shape.
He is wearing an intricately carved haon medallion, a pair of black leather boots laced with silver cord, a brown leather cloak clasped with a carved ivory button, and some well-tailored brown linen robes trimmed in black fur.

http://www.play.net/dr/info/races/eloth.asp

That sounds quite a lot like an Elothean, does it not? He stated that most of his people lacked an excess of hair, except for in the back, where most females like to grow it long.

The "Did You Know?" at the bottom of DR's Elothean page is especially interesting as well, given that during Simucon it was stated that one of the new races would introduce the savant profession/guild into GSIV.

Another interesting tidbit: The name of the Erithian's primary city is... Eloth'Ra.

Just thought you all might be interested in the correlations.

Kay

>So when you say 'unveiled' you mean the spaceship we now know as Shard crash-landed into Elanthia? <hum>

I think we need to have some GS ruins somewhere. Like maybe a forbidden ancient text event that gives hints to Gemstone. Like a book or something washes up on shore.


Steel.

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"Theoretically an alchemist could make a monkey pill that, when it reacts with intestinal enzymes, turns into a monkey which then is shot out of my butt at high speed. I don't see why ANYONE would want to control sale of that." -Me

>So when you say 'unveiled' you mean the spaceship we now know as Shard crash-landed into Elanthia? <hum>

Actually, the Crossing -- packed with a legion of screaming novices [and I mean the worst sort of novices, not the good sort] led by a feisty young turnip named Rone -- crash "land"ed and they changed the name from the Crossing to Wehnimer's Landing.

[all of "inside" GS jokes in there, sorry but I couldn't resist]

Kay

>Did he meantion where they come from?

Just that their home city was called Eloth'Ra, meaning "Home in the Sky" or "High Home", and that it was in the mountains.

>Half-Elves my ass.

He did mention that it was debated whether they were related somewhat to the elves, or if they were a singularly created race. If you like, when the log of the conversation gets posted on the GS boards, I'll post a link here to it?

Simu-Melissa confirmed in a post yesterday that the Erithian race were indeed the same as Elotheans, and commented on the Elothean/Half-Elven debate. After my sig, I'll post the content of her message regarding this. If anyone wants to read the full post [it's quite long], the link is: http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=30&category=101&topic=5&message=1484

Kay

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Erithian
The Erithian was one of the first races suggested because we were excited about what we could do with it. Actually, I'm happy folks have already noticed the connection these Erithians (from Eloth'Ra) have with the DragonRealms race the Elotheans. I'm not gonna be coy ... we didn't make a major effort to disguise the connection between the two races. However, we did have some interest in making sure that DR's development team didn't feel any pressure to be affected by what we did over here. If they really want to they can tell all their players that GS doesn't know what we're talking about ... that the Erithians and the Elotheans have nothing in common.

It's interesting that this debate about whether or not they have any relationship to Elves has started so quickly. In the world of DragonRealms the origination of this race is hotly debated. A number of races suggest that Elotheans are the unnatural spawn of Elven/Human breeding (dirty Half-Elves!) Of course, the Elotheans reject this and claim that they are the special creation of their god.

But why bring Elotheans to GS3?

While Elves have played the role of lore-keepers in their past, their race isn't very well focused on it. Elotheans don't have that difficulty ... they are an inwardly-focused, quiet race. Less interested in world-domination, and more interested in self-actualization. We are about to bring into the world a new type of magic: mentalism. And two new professions that take advantage of that magic: monk and savant. The Eritheans (Elotheans) are an excellent race to take advantage of this sphere.

Additionally, if you know anything about the DR Elotheans you know that they have an eastern/oriental slant. For years we have heard the request that we introduce eastern/oriental elements into the game. Yet, we were unsure how to do that in a manner that was consistent with our own definition of the world. Erithians are an excellent segue. Now we'll be more free to introduce eastern/oriental elements without feeling that they're unnatural in the world.

And those eastern/oriental elements also easily tie back into the whole Erithian focus on self-actualization ... which ties back into Monks and Savants. (And weren't some Elotheans called Savants in DR?) See? It's all a neat little tidy package.

Here's what makes this race even more attractive to ME, personally. The Elves ... they've had it far too easy, in my opinion. First, the Arkati favored them. Then they have this whole longevity thing going for them. And yet time after time they've really messed it all up, haven't they? And they don't have any excuses. Still, they look at these humans and see no threat because they feel that if they (the Elves) pulled themselves together they could stomp these folks out in short order. I'm rather excited about introducing an equally snotty race that can tout all the same benefits of the Elves ... yet have chosen to take the higher moral ground. What will happen? Will the Elves look at the Erithians and see companions they can finally trust? Or will they see the Erithians as a threat? And what will happen to the Erithians now that they're in the open? What would they do if the Elves were to wage war?

Ah ... the possibilities ... Wow, this got to be a long section, didn't it?

[Simu-Melissa]

They could come full circle over the course of history. Be introverted, get some reason to rise up, and get their butts handed to them, so they go back in their corner like whipped puppies.


Steel.

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OMG U HAVE <insert ability here>!! UR OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!

Well, I don't suppose it is actually ruins from the Gemstone era...

...but one of the my favorite places in all the lands of DragonRealms over the years was the giant tree up that little trail in Sorrow's Reach. Carved upon it is the simple message, 'Harcourt was here'.

I'd imagine that simple message doesn't hold much significance for most DR adventurers these days, but as a long time GS and DR player I have always appreciated it since I first found it. In the early days of DR where the vast majority of beta testers were GS players, everything was so foreign and out of whack with what we were used to, and yet still vaguely similar. New game, sure, but it still felt like being far away from 'home'. It was exciting for me, but I also felt so out of touch. It helped a fair bit to eventually find that old tree, among other things.

Why? Well, in GS on the western side of the city in the center of Town Central of Wehnimer's Landing, Kelfour's Landing during his career, was a similar tree that was eventually known to 'belong' to a certain Lord Harcourt. While he was in his time known to be a fairly nefarious sort later in his career, he has nevertheless survived in legend as a beloved character of his time for the stories of his various adventures.

I know that it has been mentioned elsewhere on the boards before, and a couple of years ago now I guess since I haven't visited the boards often in that long, that the Harcourt's Tree of DR has no real link to the Harcourt's Tree of GS. Still, the DR version is a special place and remains a link to GS and the early days of DR for me regardless.

Peter, formerly of account name CEMM

>In the help, there used to be a note about a character in GS3 who staged a kidnapping, and was known as a nefarious villain, although he did eventually change his ways. The help also said there was a reference to him in DR...

Pendegast Scrimm kidnapped(and held hostage) Tyler, an Empath. It was an attempt to get the mayor of Crossing to make an appearance. No mayor showed, so Mister Scrimm decided to become the mayor. Someone else could probably fill in the details better.

-Chris

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No matter where light goes...it will find darkness has been there first.

Kaith Partani is indeed Gamgweth. And it does mean Blood Empath.

Ryeka


Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy

Actually, Kaith Partani is WAR Empath.

The Empath title you're thinking of that has "blood" involved is Kirmiko, which means Blood Master.

Things might have also gotten confused because the "Kaith Kirm" uses both of those words.. So instead of seeing "War Blood" and translating it "War of Blood" you might rather translate it "Blood War"







Kinsmen, Steel, Stone.
www.stone-clan.com

Nin showrskilik dabru dangig kvuthen, "Derg ewn tharfe mate nin verdh suun nin kwin bowr, nin kwin bowr va nin verdh."