>> Z loves thieves, and Solomon hates rangers ~ Zinaca

You are an idiot.

~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, Ranger
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls

Along with the whining about the teaching changing hurting Rangers.

Thirded.

I've got 330 teaching.. and not a clue how. It basically moved itself with any sort of socializing I guess.

I agree appraisal is free lore, so is schol now. Mech is too if one has any free time between hunting and survivals. And AL (does it even count as a real lore?) is easy to 350. Maybe more now.

Teach less, hunt more.

With all he's done, including making a baby ranger just to see what it's like to try to raise one, I would not say that he just loves thieves at all. I got the impression he is very dedicated to making this game work well and be fun in general and takes his job with regard to all the survival guilds very seriously


--The player of too many, all of which are fictions in a fantasy game and none of which are me.

"The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself." -- Archibald MacLeish

<<Should look at the stink the Thieves are raising because Z decided to open SLIP to us. I have full faith that Z is unbiased, and has the game's best interest in mind. Not just Rangers.>>

<<Zinaca, you're throwing around quite a few accusations of GM guild favoritism and bias lately. Maybe you should step out of that glass house you're standing in, and take a look at what's best for the game as a whole. >>

All this because of the sentence: "Z loves Thieves"???


Gahlron Dragon'Claws
Ranger
You say, "I thought Banshee's scream"
The toy Banshee says, "Have you ever been a Banshee? Our voices get sore"
You say, "No, but I married one once"

> All this because of the sentence: "Z loves Thieves"???

No, "all this" because of the constant crapping on Zeyurn from a select handful of rangers (yourself included on at least a few occasions btw) for being a stand up guy and saying he'd finally bring Ranger reqs in line (this is where it started). He then had the audacity to say that some survival skills needed work, and went plum crazy and said "maybe I'll rewrite core climb/swim/scout to be more than just skills you train to circle." How dare he! /sarcasm

The context of the Zinaca's quote that drove me over the edge was that "oh woe is us, a dirty dirty Thief-lover is leading survival/Ranger dev and we're all screwed cause Solomon hates Rangers and the two of them are cackling with glee as they plot ways to make the game crappy!" I'm sure there's a heaping pile of residual angst from the Sv.X changes wherein Z really saved our asses. Instead of getting half-hearted mixed crap damage-crap disable spells, we got some really powerful disabling spells at the expense of a little poison and one over haxed tree. Don't you throw Swarm/Griz/PoS in his face either. Those spells always sucked.

And while I'm nerd-raging, If I hear one more complaint about having a piddly secondary armor req so help me I'm going to drive this car RIGHT OFF THE ROAD!!!one1!1

~There, I feel better.

So I made my opinions known to Z that I don't like TM and I don't like the BB "nerf", so now I'm crapping on him? I don't think I've ever said Z was doing a bad job, and if I had I want someone to point it out to me, because I don't think he's done a bad job, never had. I just don't always agree with his decisions gasp! Heaven forbid I don't kiss his ass and tell him every idea is great or he'll run away.

I guess I took the context of Zinaca's post differently. Since Z has stated he's only ever played a Thief and has never played a Ranger the comment "Z loves Thieves" is true. But it doesn't say "Z hates Rangers". Won't even touch teh Solomon comment since he stated yesterday he hates all guilds not just the Rangers. I'm hoping you guys took it in the same context I did.

I had no intention of touching the Griz/Swarm/PoS thing. As far as I know it did exactly what Kalika told me it would do when I got it. This is just a game to me. I don't care about the math computations it uses to determine how much stun it will deal based on stats, the poistion of your left foot in relation to magnetic north, and the amount of mana you prepped it at. If it's supposed to make the critter dance a samba, then it better not do a jig.

I have alot of respect for you Hanryu. I just don't see this the same way you do.

Oh and speaking of those secondary armor reqs...ducks

Gahlron Dragon'Claws
Ranger
You say, "I thought Banshee's scream"
The toy Banshee says, "Have you ever been a Banshee? Our voices get sore"
You say, "No, but I married one once"

You are all stupidheads.


Arctuniol

Knowledge is like manure, it's only good when spread.

>Um, why should we have a second armor requirement at all?

Armor secondary. Plus requirements can be used to help justify abilities down the line.

If the secondary armor requirement holds you back, you aren't training right.

>I thought they were moving away from this paradigm, which is in part why the reqs are being eased up.

My impression was that, you couldn't justify more powerful abilities at x circle because circling took longer, but it would be easier to propose an armor ability with higher armor requirements. Could be off base, but that was the sense I got from several recent posts.

>So it is completely and utterly skillset based and has no grounding in guild philosophy whatsoever. In other words, it is just another requirement GMs tell us to fulfill in order to advance.

Right, and guild philosophy is completely and utterly unrelated to skillsets?

Your rant is pathetic. Plus, all of this was already discussed to death.

<<Your rant is pathetic. Plus, all of this was already discussed to death.>>

i was in college and bored, and talked my way from the general phone number at WWOR, to studio manager, to control room director and got on the ricky lake show saying i was the head of the psychiatric wing at mt sinai hospital and had something to say about the incestuous triads that had formed on her stage...i went on my rant

after i was done, she said almost the exact same thing. almost verbatim.

so i bababoueyd

:oP Ragran

Ragran

You pretty much made my point for me. Second armor requirement is about as ridiculous in my book as wanting empaths to be master assassins or thieves to become master healers.


V.

The extra weapon and armor reqs are a joke. Currently my ranger is half a rank from 92nd (need primary weapon to reach 100th, nothing else). If new reqs came out right this instant, I'd be 92nd and need 5th/6th survival to circle to 110th (think thats right), nothing else. Enough second armor for 150th - even tho it's 50 ranks less than my primary weapon? That's too easy. Enough tert weapon for 150th - Even though it's 70 ranks less than my primary? And enough parry for 150th - this req is really a joke though. Enough second weapon for somewhere between 130-140th. And enough primary armor for 130ish (granted this one is ahead of primary weapon by a ways). All quite silly.

I know some don't think rangers need to be combat heavy, but we're armor and weapon secondary with evasion/hide/stalk in our prime skill set, so I disagree.

Oh. And only enough prime survival (hiding) for 120th and that's way ahead of anything else.. really makes the secondary skillset reqs look pathetic when my highest primary skill isn't even close to 150th and all those others already meet/are closer to the 150th reqs.

This is prime, I don't have the time to script all day every day (gotta work), I don't afk script, and dr is not my entire life, so not like this is all impossible feats (granted it takes years when you can't afk script 24/7).

And it is quite possible to manually (or with minimal script help) lock shield, leather, hc (or whatever secondary armor), parry, multi, 3 weapons, evasion, hide, and stalk (along with other things as you desire) if you are hunting the right critter, in very little time. That's 11 skills, and you can do a lot more than 11 at once in combat if you want (I add in working FA and locking schol too, appraisal, etc. can easily reach 17-20+ skills going at once if you really want). So personally I've always prefered my hunting run to say.. my survival run, which always seems inefficient to me after 17 or more skills pretty much simultaneously while hunting.

Feel free to ignore anything said in this post.



Fun times!
collect ceb root
>
You manage to collect a pile of cebi roots.
Roundtime: 102 sec.

Okay, someone tell me why armor secondary requires investment into a second armor or shield for circle requirements? I wanna know...


V.

If you're going to go that route, why require skill in anything at all to circle? Lets just base it entirely on total bits across all skills! Then we'll level up based on total exp and be just like any other game in that aspect? Fun idea.

The way most guilds work in DR, it seems, is to generally have more than just one skill required in each of their secondary sets. With their primary set having higher reqs. And tert set being laughable. Go look at other guilds (http://www.olwydd.org/guilds/index.php), see how they're set up. And then you'll see (as far as I know) there isn't any case except rangers where a secondary set only requires one skill. It's just how the gm's have decided to set up DR. Granted it does end up sucking for the poor rangers that only trained exactly what was needed to circle.. good thing circles aren't everything.



Fun times!
collect ceb root
>
You manage to collect a pile of cebi roots.
Roundtime: 102 sec.

My Moon Mage has enough secondary armor for the 150th New Ranger Req. Even his third armor would meet it. I'm sure any Ranger will have no problem achieving it especially with the new teaching.

Because empath reqs are easy as dirt, and they can potentially get everything they need in one room (if they so desire), cept maybe a survival or two (which new teaching can rectify). I didn't even have to try hard to get my empath to 55th. My cleric has to actually hunt (well, he could do classes too now I guess if I wanted him too) to circle and is 46th (cleric has 480 harness to empaths highest skill of 302 first aid?!). Fun stuff.



Fun times!
collect ceb root
>
You manage to collect a pile of cebi roots.
Roundtime: 102 sec.

>>Shield, okay. Wait, you mean I will actually need the only secondary benefit to it, its missile defense very rarely? That is okay. Wait wait wait, if I train shield and evasion why the heck do Guildleaders require us to learn parry? Oh, let me guess, because we are weapon secondary...

Parry is prolly because of the weapon secondary thing yes. Same for multi. Both are still a joke, and you can easily lock all 4 defenses no problem anyway if you desire.

And as to shield, shield is in general the superior PvP defense, unless you are in a challenge where the rules state "melee only, no spell casting/roaring". Not going to be parrying room cast shots of CL or TKS, and whatever other area spells can attack you in hiding. Granted if you have a loaded bow, you won't be blocking it then either.

Shield and bow - I agree, the only use here is for when you snipe, get seen, and they shoot you. since you can't block with a loaded bow.

We all see things in a different light. I think diversifying is a wonderful thing. Bow only, leather only, hiding rangers with skill in no other combats seems too weak to me.


Fun times!
collect ceb root
>
You manage to collect a pile of cebi roots.
Roundtime: 102 sec.

>We all see things in a different light. I think diversifying is a wonderful thing. Bow only, leather only, hiding rangers with skill in no other combats seems too weak to me.

I agree, but I don't look down on those Rangers. They have just chosen a different path. I do feel bad that they have to pick up a second armor now. Still, it's very easy. Just get your ranks and carry on.

Many guilds are forced to do this with their Teaching req. Not fun, no one likes to do it, and it has nothing to do with their RP; but, if they want to advance in the guild, then they have to take care of it.