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I second this list and love you for posting it.
CRONOTOS
PAVOLKOJ
Kaldar tradition
09/18/2008 02:28 PM CDT
Where can I do some research on Kaldaran tradition such as weddings and all that good stuff. Thanks.
NJP
Re: Kaldar tradition
09/18/2008 02:53 PM CDT
Well the library in the great tower in shard has books on Gorbesh religion, the Gorbesh calendar and the Gnomes (who are, of course, closely related to the Gorbesh/Kaldar peoples, so it does bear learning about). The Gorbesh language books are housed in the library on Aesry. Other than that, I'm not sure.
Also, though I always like to encourage IG travel, if you don't have the time to get to those places, all those books can also be found on elanthipedia.com.
"Now won't you tell me if you like what you've just heard?
And if you think the point I'm driving at absurd,
Well there's no need to tell me how or tell me why,
But I need to know the reason not to try."
- John Popper, Onslaught
Also, though I always like to encourage IG travel, if you don't have the time to get to those places, all those books can also be found on elanthipedia.com.
"Now won't you tell me if you like what you've just heard?
And if you think the point I'm driving at absurd,
Well there's no need to tell me how or tell me why,
But I need to know the reason not to try."
- John Popper, Onslaught
PAVOLKOJ
Re: Kaldar tradition
09/19/2008 08:05 AM CDT
Thank you much. I guess I gotta make a trip to Shard at some point. I live on Aesry so the language ones i have found already, with a helpful reminder. Thanks again.
PROGARC2
A Kaldar Searching for his Past
09/25/2008 06:31 PM CDT
::he lets his head drop for a moment as he clenches his fist to his chest and then lets his hand drop as he raises his head to speak::
Greetings, my name is Ehon, I am of Kaldar Descent, my Father was one of the Kaldar that travelled over here long ago. He settled down with an Elven woman and here I am. While I grew up, they eschewed both Kaldar and illithic history from me, and so at this stage of my life I am completely ignorant of my own history as a Kaldar, who my ancestors were or how we came to be where we are. I have done some reading here and there where I can and I do understand that the Kaldar brok away from the Gorbesh to return to our roots as it were, to become closer to Nature. I also understand that my chosen profession as a Warrior Mage means I have embraced a bit more Magic than some Kaldar may find comfortable, but after reading what I have, I am more attuned to the elements, Primarily Earth, than I was before. I am taking the time to read through the scrolls and the histories already written down, but if perhaps someone was willing to take the time help me understand it and what it means to me, I would be in your debt.
Ehon
Greetings, my name is Ehon, I am of Kaldar Descent, my Father was one of the Kaldar that travelled over here long ago. He settled down with an Elven woman and here I am. While I grew up, they eschewed both Kaldar and illithic history from me, and so at this stage of my life I am completely ignorant of my own history as a Kaldar, who my ancestors were or how we came to be where we are. I have done some reading here and there where I can and I do understand that the Kaldar brok away from the Gorbesh to return to our roots as it were, to become closer to Nature. I also understand that my chosen profession as a Warrior Mage means I have embraced a bit more Magic than some Kaldar may find comfortable, but after reading what I have, I am more attuned to the elements, Primarily Earth, than I was before. I am taking the time to read through the scrolls and the histories already written down, but if perhaps someone was willing to take the time help me understand it and what it means to me, I would be in your debt.
Ehon
GORBESHGODDESS
Re: A Kaldar Searching for his Past
09/25/2008 07:43 PM CDT
<<Ehon
Hello, Ehon! Feel free to IM me at Vyraka. I have your name highlighted IG as well.
Ciles and I travel fairly often - anywhere from weekly to daily. Currently, we are in Theren, but in the next few days we may be in either Ratha or Shard.
And Welcome!
--Vyraka--
Hello, Ehon! Feel free to IM me at Vyraka. I have your name highlighted IG as well.
Ciles and I travel fairly often - anywhere from weekly to daily. Currently, we are in Theren, but in the next few days we may be in either Ratha or Shard.
And Welcome!
--Vyraka--
DELTAFOX29
Re: A Kaldar Searching for his Past
09/25/2008 08:24 PM CDT
My instant messenger is GorbeshMarvok . I play at really odd times during the weekends, but Monday and Tuesday nights are best.
I hope to see you around Ehon.
As an aside, Jerecis, can you confirm your IM is JSThrasher?
Interesting info on the calendar business. I'll see if there is some more info to dig up.
I hope to see you around Ehon.
As an aside, Jerecis, can you confirm your IM is JSThrasher?
Interesting info on the calendar business. I'll see if there is some more info to dig up.
JOHNNYTHRASHER
Re: A Kaldar Searching for his Past
09/25/2008 10:50 PM CDT
Aye Marvok that's it, although I haven't had it up much lately. I'll get it runnin' more often.
Other events I found that coincided with the construction of Eimuetek were the construction of a monument to Akren Dein, the Great Schism between Kaldar and Gorbesh and the start of efforts to reoccupy the city of the dead. Still have to finish going through the first age but there are probably a couple more at least.
Ehon I'll answer any questions you have if I can, as Marvok said IM is JSThrasher or just find Jerecis in-game, usually around Lang or Haven. Glad to have you with us!
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
Other events I found that coincided with the construction of Eimuetek were the construction of a monument to Akren Dein, the Great Schism between Kaldar and Gorbesh and the start of efforts to reoccupy the city of the dead. Still have to finish going through the first age but there are probably a couple more at least.
Ehon I'll answer any questions you have if I can, as Marvok said IM is JSThrasher or just find Jerecis in-game, usually around Lang or Haven. Glad to have you with us!
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
DR-BELLADZIA
Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/17/2008 03:22 PM CST
Greetings and Salutations!
In an ideal world where you would get to pick exactly what types of clothing you, as a Kaldar, would wear what would those items be?
Would you wear kilts or pants? Shirts and blouses? Sweaters or cloaks or coats? Tunics or vests? How about skirts, dresses and gowns, would you choose on or all of those?
And lets say you were all powerful and could dictate fashion with the stroke of a brush, would you be ruggedly native or do you see yourself more as an elegant dresser?
I'm very curious to know how you, as a Kaldar, see yourself dressed.
GameMaster Belladzia
Kaldar Race Champion
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
In an ideal world where you would get to pick exactly what types of clothing you, as a Kaldar, would wear what would those items be?
Would you wear kilts or pants? Shirts and blouses? Sweaters or cloaks or coats? Tunics or vests? How about skirts, dresses and gowns, would you choose on or all of those?
And lets say you were all powerful and could dictate fashion with the stroke of a brush, would you be ruggedly native or do you see yourself more as an elegant dresser?
I'm very curious to know how you, as a Kaldar, see yourself dressed.
GameMaster Belladzia
Kaldar Race Champion
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
DR-BELLADZIA
Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/17/2008 03:29 PM CST
Greetings one and all,
I have scheduled a meet and greet gathering for Saturday, 11/23/08, to begin promptly at 9:00 PM EST and run for about an hour (perhaps a bit more if there area lot of questions). Please check out the calender notice: https://www.play.net/dr/events/calendar.asp?ID=1001. The location might be a bit obscure for some of our younger brethern but hopefully there will be plenty of elder's on hand to lead the way.
I very much hope to see there.
GM Belladzia
Kaldar Champion
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
I have scheduled a meet and greet gathering for Saturday, 11/23/08, to begin promptly at 9:00 PM EST and run for about an hour (perhaps a bit more if there area lot of questions). Please check out the calender notice: https://www.play.net/dr/events/calendar.asp?ID=1001. The location might be a bit obscure for some of our younger brethern but hopefully there will be plenty of elder's on hand to lead the way.
I very much hope to see there.
GM Belladzia
Kaldar Champion
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
ENOTS
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/17/2008 03:32 PM CST
None of my Kaldar chars are primes- But I can easily see them wearing a lot of leather and fur, and perhaps even wool or felt. The Paladins (which two of my Kaldaran are) might dress elegantly, depending on the company they have to keep- but other than that they would prefer to keep the essentials and but little else.
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
DELTAFOX29
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/17/2008 05:32 PM CST
Traditional Kaldar: Natural items. Earth tones. Leather, Furs, maybe some bone. Basic metal items, rings, etc. Carved wooden items. Adornment would be fairly simple, handmade items. Perhaps beads woven into the hair, simple necklaces.
a rugged leather vest lined with fox fur, a pair of handmade leather boots stitched with sinew, a braided leather belt, a large tooth strung on a cord, etc
Gorbesh, Civilian: More refined, complex metal items. Luxury goods, colors not commonly found in nature.
examples are anything based on station in the empire and tastes of the individual. Colors for aristocrats would tend to follow those of their tribes/houses/families.
Gorbesh, Military: Utilitarian, form follows function. A sword may be adorned with jewels or filigree as desired, but it is first and foremost a sword. Tattoos for the infantry. Colors would be per unit insignia.
non-combat: a tightly laced vest stamped with a silver fist over the heart, a white linen tunic, some fitted leather pants, some steel-toed boots
a rugged leather vest lined with fox fur, a pair of handmade leather boots stitched with sinew, a braided leather belt, a large tooth strung on a cord, etc
Gorbesh, Civilian: More refined, complex metal items. Luxury goods, colors not commonly found in nature.
examples are anything based on station in the empire and tastes of the individual. Colors for aristocrats would tend to follow those of their tribes/houses/families.
Gorbesh, Military: Utilitarian, form follows function. A sword may be adorned with jewels or filigree as desired, but it is first and foremost a sword. Tattoos for the infantry. Colors would be per unit insignia.
non-combat: a tightly laced vest stamped with a silver fist over the heart, a white linen tunic, some fitted leather pants, some steel-toed boots
JOHNNYTHRASHER
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/17/2008 06:22 PM CST
First of all, welcome Belladzia! Very glad to have you with us.
As far as clothing, I think deltafox hit it pretty much on the head as far as established Kaldar/Gorbesh clothing, mainly simple, leather and fur gear. I could see both races wearing long kilts and/or robes seeing as the weather in Albaria is fairly cold for the most part. Imperial Gorbesh I see as very proper in terms of their dress, silks and the like, although provincial and military Gorbesh much more utilitarian. I try to mix a little of both into whatever gear I can get done, a lot of plain leather and thick fur along with Gorbesh religious symbols and of course the fist. <speaking of which, can we please get an addition to the Gorbesh dictionary with a direct translation of fist? Seems a symbol that important to us would have a word for it.> Personally I'm trying to outfit myself in mostly hiro bearskin and pelts, along with enough Gorbesh symbolism that I don't get confused for a Kaldar, but I RP a provincial so I see his gear as closer to Kaldar than the other Gorbesh.
Once again I have to say thanks a ton for the Gorbesh pantheon tabards at the fest, and I'm quite looking forward to our party.
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
As far as clothing, I think deltafox hit it pretty much on the head as far as established Kaldar/Gorbesh clothing, mainly simple, leather and fur gear. I could see both races wearing long kilts and/or robes seeing as the weather in Albaria is fairly cold for the most part. Imperial Gorbesh I see as very proper in terms of their dress, silks and the like, although provincial and military Gorbesh much more utilitarian. I try to mix a little of both into whatever gear I can get done, a lot of plain leather and thick fur along with Gorbesh religious symbols and of course the fist. <speaking of which, can we please get an addition to the Gorbesh dictionary with a direct translation of fist? Seems a symbol that important to us would have a word for it.> Personally I'm trying to outfit myself in mostly hiro bearskin and pelts, along with enough Gorbesh symbolism that I don't get confused for a Kaldar, but I RP a provincial so I see his gear as closer to Kaldar than the other Gorbesh.
Once again I have to say thanks a ton for the Gorbesh pantheon tabards at the fest, and I'm quite looking forward to our party.
Jerecis S'Onser'ei, Fist of the Empire
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/17/2008 10:48 PM CST
looking forward to a more refined difference between Gorbesh and Kaldar!
And looking forward to the day I we can swap Gorbesh for Kaldar as our race if we so choose. :D
And looking forward to the day I we can swap Gorbesh for Kaldar as our race if we so choose. :D
SANGGYEDORJE
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 05:30 AM CST
<<looking forward to a more refined difference between Gorbesh and Kaldar!>>
This
I agree with the natural clothes, furs, leathers, etc.
This
I agree with the natural clothes, furs, leathers, etc.
SAUVA
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 08:41 AM CST
This is Han's favorite "every day" outfit.
You are wearing a cured leather hair tie, a bear-claw necklace, a forest shroud dyed in mottled shades of green and brown, a brass badge etched with a laurel and lion's claw crest, a bear-skin backpack, a bone wristcuff inlaid with polished cambrinth plates, a mistwood wedding band with intricate carvings, a silver ring bearing the crest of the Ranger guild, a wide black leather belt fastened with a hematite buckle, some bear-hide pants, a bear-skin quiver and a pair of soft bearskin boots fastened with inlaid silver roundels.
I find the boots a bit flashy, but it seemed to work with the bear theme and match the guild ring.
I like SORT TAPS. I can't stress that enough. Long looks are fine, but I want to keep my taps as short as possible. I like for him to dress rugged most of the time. I do have a "dress up" outfit, but you can blame that on his elven wife.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
7/14/0 - 6 days
You are wearing a cured leather hair tie, a bear-claw necklace, a forest shroud dyed in mottled shades of green and brown, a brass badge etched with a laurel and lion's claw crest, a bear-skin backpack, a bone wristcuff inlaid with polished cambrinth plates, a mistwood wedding band with intricate carvings, a silver ring bearing the crest of the Ranger guild, a wide black leather belt fastened with a hematite buckle, some bear-hide pants, a bear-skin quiver and a pair of soft bearskin boots fastened with inlaid silver roundels.
I find the boots a bit flashy, but it seemed to work with the bear theme and match the guild ring.
I like SORT TAPS. I can't stress that enough. Long looks are fine, but I want to keep my taps as short as possible. I like for him to dress rugged most of the time. I do have a "dress up" outfit, but you can blame that on his elven wife.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
7/14/0 - 6 days
SAUVA
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 08:49 AM CST
> And looking forward to the day I we can swap Gorbesh for Kaldar as our race if we so choose.
Wouldn't that be nice! For whatever reason all these Kaldar running around claiming to be Gorbesh annoys the crap out of me.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
7/14/0 - 6 days
Wouldn't that be nice! For whatever reason all these Kaldar running around claiming to be Gorbesh annoys the crap out of me.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
7/14/0 - 6 days
DELTAFOX29
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 09:00 AM CST
I find Hanryu's inventory to be an excellent example of traditional Kaldar garb.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 11:47 AM CST
>>Wouldn't that be nice! For whatever reason all these Kaldar running around claiming to be Gorbesh annoys the crap out of me.
From what I've always understood, referring to your race as Kaldar in Dragonrealms is like referring to your race as Democrat, Libertarian, or Vegan in Realityrealms.
From what I've always understood, referring to your race as Kaldar in Dragonrealms is like referring to your race as Democrat, Libertarian, or Vegan in Realityrealms.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 01:56 PM CST
>> From what I've always understood, referring to your race as Kaldar in Dragonrealms is like referring to your race as Democrat, Libertarian, or Vegan in Realityrealms.
I take it about like this too.
Versus other races which are actually different species from one another, Kaldar do not really strike me as a separate species from Gorbesh. They weren't separated long enough for that kind of genetic drift and progression of natural selection to create more than a superficial distinction.
We know that 99.99% of the Gorbesh we run into are going to call themselves Kaldar but I do not find it unreasonable for someone to RP a plain old Gorbesh or a Kaldar that thinks their recent ancestors were out of their minds and sympathizes more with where they came from.
Rev. Reene
Gylwyn says to you, "Heretics are often the finders of truth."
I take it about like this too.
Versus other races which are actually different species from one another, Kaldar do not really strike me as a separate species from Gorbesh. They weren't separated long enough for that kind of genetic drift and progression of natural selection to create more than a superficial distinction.
We know that 99.99% of the Gorbesh we run into are going to call themselves Kaldar but I do not find it unreasonable for someone to RP a plain old Gorbesh or a Kaldar that thinks their recent ancestors were out of their minds and sympathizes more with where they came from.
Rev. Reene
Gylwyn says to you, "Heretics are often the finders of truth."
LOFTONM1
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 05:39 PM CST
Why do you assume Kaldar and Gorbesh are related by genetics? One could be the remnants of a conquered Albarian nation melded into what is now the Gorbesh Empire. If it happened long enough in the past, they would've transformed from resentful repressed slave species to something a bit more core to the modern empire while maintaining their genetic uniqueness.
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
NJP
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 05:42 PM CST
>>Why do you assume Kaldar and Gorbesh are related by genetics? One could be the remnants of a conquered Albarian nation melded into what is now the Gorbesh Empire. If it happened long enough in the past, they would've transformed from resentful repressed slave species to something a bit more core to the modern empire while maintaining their genetic uniqueness.
No. Just... no.
Gorbesh : Kaldar :: Snow Elf : River Elf. Except even more closely related.
Denstimar Dustyfoot
Idon Raider - www.idonraiders.com
"Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?" - Walt Whitman
No. Just... no.
Gorbesh : Kaldar :: Snow Elf : River Elf. Except even more closely related.
Denstimar Dustyfoot
Idon Raider - www.idonraiders.com
"Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?" - Walt Whitman
GORBESHGODDESS
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/18/2008 07:06 PM CST
I'm just making certain you mean Sunday not Saturday. That's what the calendar reflects - and Sunday would be a great time.
Welcome by the way!
--Vyraka--
Welcome by the way!
--Vyraka--
DELTAFOX29
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 08:02 PM CST
>>Why do you assume Kaldar and Gorbesh are related by genetics? One could be the remnants of a conquered Albarian nation melded into what is now the Gorbesh Empire. If it happened long enough in the past, they would've transformed from resentful repressed slave species to something a bit more core to the modern empire while maintaining their genetic uniqueness.<<
First paragraph of the race bio on play.net : Physically identical to the Gorbesh, the Kaldar are as much a political party as a race. Desiring a purer and more natural way of life where individual heroism and honor can be valued -- as opposed to the regimented army-camp existence of the Gorbesh Empire -- they followed the Gnomic prophet Trimbolt in a mass migration to the Dragon's Realms.
Albarian Timeline:
100 Many Gorbesh in the West begin to feel they have lost their roots, and begin calling for a return to nature
95 Emperor Gotiez begins to grow suspicious of those now calling themselves Kaldar, fearing the growing support of their teachings
There is no mention of Kaldar before 95 before lanival the redeemer.
First paragraph of the race bio on play.net : Physically identical to the Gorbesh, the Kaldar are as much a political party as a race. Desiring a purer and more natural way of life where individual heroism and honor can be valued -- as opposed to the regimented army-camp existence of the Gorbesh Empire -- they followed the Gnomic prophet Trimbolt in a mass migration to the Dragon's Realms.
Albarian Timeline:
100 Many Gorbesh in the West begin to feel they have lost their roots, and begin calling for a return to nature
95 Emperor Gotiez begins to grow suspicious of those now calling themselves Kaldar, fearing the growing support of their teachings
There is no mention of Kaldar before 95 before lanival the redeemer.
GORBESHGODDESS
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 08:49 PM CST
I agree with all the previous posts.
Here are my regurgitated thoughts:
Kaldar Gorbesh - Fishermen, hunters, scouts, maybe a smidgeon of mammoth riders. Various types of furs, bones, clay, rough cut stones (maybe an occasional cabachon or carving, but rarely ever complexly cut), simple woven fabrics. {shudder} Here's a scary thought --> Kaldar bone armor
While not generally artisans, I do believe they have a range of crafstmen dealing with objects easily acquired in nature.
Imperial Gorbesh - Much more exotic, though sophisticated. The priests of the Imperials are far more garrish in color and dress than a Kaldar priest. Fancy cut gems through trade with the Gnomes or silks from the Islands (Reference Ideas: Albarian timeline), but crafted with Gorbesh & Imperial symbology, ie - the Gods and the clenched fist.
The exception to this fashion as pointed out previously would be Imperial Gorbesh military. That style of dress is much more simple. More uniform for group marches for Imperial Gorbesh, while the Kaldar Gorbesh style is more survival based (for living off the rugged Southwestern Front and fighting off the Ocular).
Kermorianized Kaldar - Take your pick. Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, S'kra are all part of Albarian history, as well as the fact that Albarians have travelled far into Dwarven and S'kra territory. I see the Kaldar as nature based, but adaptable to various cultural influences.
<Versus other races which are actually different species from one another, Kaldar do not really strike me as a separate species from Gorbesh
Agreed.
People want to play Gorbesh, but they already do - just a different name. Be Kaldar, be Imperial, be Kermorianized - it's still all the same race.
Chaldeans, Assyrians, Babylonians, whatever.
Cheers!
--Vyraka--
Here are my regurgitated thoughts:
Kaldar Gorbesh - Fishermen, hunters, scouts, maybe a smidgeon of mammoth riders. Various types of furs, bones, clay, rough cut stones (maybe an occasional cabachon or carving, but rarely ever complexly cut), simple woven fabrics. {shudder} Here's a scary thought --> Kaldar bone armor
While not generally artisans, I do believe they have a range of crafstmen dealing with objects easily acquired in nature.
Imperial Gorbesh - Much more exotic, though sophisticated. The priests of the Imperials are far more garrish in color and dress than a Kaldar priest. Fancy cut gems through trade with the Gnomes or silks from the Islands (Reference Ideas: Albarian timeline), but crafted with Gorbesh & Imperial symbology, ie - the Gods and the clenched fist.
The exception to this fashion as pointed out previously would be Imperial Gorbesh military. That style of dress is much more simple. More uniform for group marches for Imperial Gorbesh, while the Kaldar Gorbesh style is more survival based (for living off the rugged Southwestern Front and fighting off the Ocular).
Kermorianized Kaldar - Take your pick. Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, S'kra are all part of Albarian history, as well as the fact that Albarians have travelled far into Dwarven and S'kra territory. I see the Kaldar as nature based, but adaptable to various cultural influences.
<Versus other races which are actually different species from one another, Kaldar do not really strike me as a separate species from Gorbesh
Agreed.
People want to play Gorbesh, but they already do - just a different name. Be Kaldar, be Imperial, be Kermorianized - it's still all the same race.
Chaldeans, Assyrians, Babylonians, whatever.
Cheers!
--Vyraka--
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 09:21 PM CST
>>Why do you assume Kaldar and Gorbesh are related by genetics?
>>DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS ALWAYS WRONG
Because we know about the race bios and read about game lore and understand that Kaldar are Gorbesh who more or less decided to return to nature and call themselves something else.
The Bone Elf : River Elf is a good comparison, except in this case it's even more likely to be Elf with Bone Elf as a subset. When you compare Gorbesh to Kaldar.
>>DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS ALWAYS WRONG
Because we know about the race bios and read about game lore and understand that Kaldar are Gorbesh who more or less decided to return to nature and call themselves something else.
The Bone Elf : River Elf is a good comparison, except in this case it's even more likely to be Elf with Bone Elf as a subset. When you compare Gorbesh to Kaldar.
MOD-HAGBAR
:Nudge: Kaldar Clothing Informal Survey
11/18/2008 11:25 PM CST
Let's keep things on topic and not start a fight. Thanks.
Questions and/or comments can be sent to MOD-Hagbar@play.net, Senior Board Moderator Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net or Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net.
Questions and/or comments can be sent to MOD-Hagbar@play.net, Senior Board Moderator Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net or Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net.
DR-BELLADZIA
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 07:36 AM CST
I'm date challenged...yes I do mean Sunday.
Thanks for pointing that out ;)
GameMaster Belladzia
Kaldar Champion
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
Thanks for pointing that out ;)
GameMaster Belladzia
Kaldar Champion
"At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new possibilities" Jean Houston
DELTAFOX29
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 11:38 AM CST
Things that have been brought up in the past meetings:
Albarian favors.
Renovating the southern fortress, near Shard, into a sort of outpost of Gorbesh, complete with shops. It would be an excellent place for the ideas on new clothes you have asked us about.
Albarian/Gorbesh citizenship.
A "clenched fist" template for embroidery.
Being able to set race to "Gorbesh" vs. "Kaldar." As stated before, Kaldar is akin to saying your species is "Democrat" in real life.
Hopefully others will chime in, I am sure I have forgotten something.
Albarian favors.
Renovating the southern fortress, near Shard, into a sort of outpost of Gorbesh, complete with shops. It would be an excellent place for the ideas on new clothes you have asked us about.
Albarian/Gorbesh citizenship.
A "clenched fist" template for embroidery.
Being able to set race to "Gorbesh" vs. "Kaldar." As stated before, Kaldar is akin to saying your species is "Democrat" in real life.
Hopefully others will chime in, I am sure I have forgotten something.
SAUVA
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 11:56 AM CST
Political party or not the tall race from Albaria in DR as it stands right now is not gorbesh. It*'*s Kaldar. Let's just keep that in mind. The day I can touch a gorbesh statue in the character roller I'll agree with this whole kaldar are like democrats mumbo jumbo.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
5/14/0 - 5 days
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
5/14/0 - 5 days
DELTAFOX29
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 12:45 PM CST
Respectfully, all the information and history suggests that the Kaldar are a bunch of Gorbesh who became disenchanted with the Gorbesh city life and decided to go back to the old ways of doing things.
Regarding the character manager, I liken it to having to touch the wood elf figurine as opposed to the elven figurine. Elves aren't pigeonholed into a specific category in DR, why should the Gorbesh/Kaldar? You are free to disagree, and I will respect your opinion.
If you have proof or information that suggests the Gorbesh and Kaldar are different species, I would very much like to see it. I haven't found any yet.
Should information refute what I have found I will, if begrudgingly, change my RP. I am attempting to be consistent with the DR mythos.
Regarding the character manager, I liken it to having to touch the wood elf figurine as opposed to the elven figurine. Elves aren't pigeonholed into a specific category in DR, why should the Gorbesh/Kaldar? You are free to disagree, and I will respect your opinion.
If you have proof or information that suggests the Gorbesh and Kaldar are different species, I would very much like to see it. I haven't found any yet.
Should information refute what I have found I will, if begrudgingly, change my RP. I am attempting to be consistent with the DR mythos.
GABRIELBLACK
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 01:18 PM CST
I guess the real problem here is a basic what came first:
the chicken, or the egg
the kaldar, or the gorbesh
Since the IG lore has always said that the Kaldar were gorbesh to went back to the natural way of life (IMO) then it would stand to reason that Kaldar are what the race is, and Gorbesh is a society within.
So basicly some lore needs to come out saying that before the Gorbesh empire was formed Kaldar called themselves Kaldar and when people got tired of being Gorbesh they reclaimed that name. It would put all this to rest.
That said. I think that both should be supported, I know plenty who RP as being "left behind" or trusted with a "misson for the empire" and plenty who RP the other side of the token. I think both should be encouraged.
~
Raenilar says, "I will deal with the witch in my own good time."
the chicken, or the egg
the kaldar, or the gorbesh
Since the IG lore has always said that the Kaldar were gorbesh to went back to the natural way of life (IMO) then it would stand to reason that Kaldar are what the race is, and Gorbesh is a society within.
So basicly some lore needs to come out saying that before the Gorbesh empire was formed Kaldar called themselves Kaldar and when people got tired of being Gorbesh they reclaimed that name. It would put all this to rest.
That said. I think that both should be supported, I know plenty who RP as being "left behind" or trusted with a "misson for the empire" and plenty who RP the other side of the token. I think both should be encouraged.
~
Raenilar says, "I will deal with the witch in my own good time."
DELTAFOX29
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 01:37 PM CST
History has already been recorded in the Albarian timeline(Gorbesh Imperial Age).
A bunch of Gorbesh in the western part of the empire decided to go back to their roots and call themselves Kaldar. It is a contrived name.
There is no mention of Kaldar prior to this event at 100-95 years before Victory of Lanival the Redeemer, though there is much mention of Kaldar afterwards.
The event doesn't suddenly change genetic structure and make them an entirely different species, it just makes them a group of individuals of a like mind that decide to name themselves something. Like Democrats.
A bunch of humans get together and decide to make a group. They decide to call themselves Blargs. They can run around saying "I'm a Blarg!" all they want, but they are still humans.
A bunch of Gorbesh in the western part of the empire decided to go back to their roots and call themselves Kaldar. It is a contrived name.
There is no mention of Kaldar prior to this event at 100-95 years before Victory of Lanival the Redeemer, though there is much mention of Kaldar afterwards.
The event doesn't suddenly change genetic structure and make them an entirely different species, it just makes them a group of individuals of a like mind that decide to name themselves something. Like Democrats.
A bunch of humans get together and decide to make a group. They decide to call themselves Blargs. They can run around saying "I'm a Blarg!" all they want, but they are still humans.
SAUVA
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 02:02 PM CST
>Respectfully, all the information and history suggests that the Kaldar are a bunch of Gorbesh who became disenchanted with the Gorbesh city life and decided to go back to the old ways of doing things.
That's all well and good, except for the glaring part that no PC in game is marked as "a Gorbesh".
> I liken it to having to touch the wood elf figurine as opposed to the elven figurine. Elves aren't pigeonholed into a specific category in DR, why should the Gorbesh/Kaldar?
Sure a wood elf is a kind of elf and anyone claiming to be a wood elf will see "SkinnyPointyEar, an Elf". If the GMs wanted Kaldar to be a kind of Gorbesh, then when I looked at myself I'd be "Hanryu Ves'Shomis, a Gorbesh". If the GMs want to make us all Gorbesh and say Kaldar are a type of Gorbesh that believe X and Y, bonzer! It would sure make a lot more sense with respect to the website and history, but until that day, I'm gonna stick with "there are no PC Gorbesh, they are Kaldar." If there really were no difference between the groups then Hanryu would be a Gorbesh that held Kaldaran beliefs, but that's just not the case as anyone with access to look, profile, and any number of other verbs can see. Baring any changes to fundamental game code, those claiming to be gorbesh are just Kaldar with Gorbeshian beliefs.
We know there are 2 camps on this topic (Gorbeshian Kaldars v. Kaldaran Gorbesh), I didn't really mean to rehash it yet again. I think your arguments are sound and you point out some glaring inconsistencies, but I just can't argue with the fact that no matter what I have Hanryu believe, he's still a Kaldar, as are the rest of the tall Albarian PCs (all of whom worship the 13/39 insert crack about favor system). I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree and hope that our new GM (hai btw, in case I missed saying that) puts this argument to rest.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
4/14/0 - 5 days
That's all well and good, except for the glaring part that no PC in game is marked as "a Gorbesh".
> I liken it to having to touch the wood elf figurine as opposed to the elven figurine. Elves aren't pigeonholed into a specific category in DR, why should the Gorbesh/Kaldar?
Sure a wood elf is a kind of elf and anyone claiming to be a wood elf will see "SkinnyPointyEar, an Elf". If the GMs wanted Kaldar to be a kind of Gorbesh, then when I looked at myself I'd be "Hanryu Ves'Shomis, a Gorbesh". If the GMs want to make us all Gorbesh and say Kaldar are a type of Gorbesh that believe X and Y, bonzer! It would sure make a lot more sense with respect to the website and history, but until that day, I'm gonna stick with "there are no PC Gorbesh, they are Kaldar." If there really were no difference between the groups then Hanryu would be a Gorbesh that held Kaldaran beliefs, but that's just not the case as anyone with access to look, profile, and any number of other verbs can see. Baring any changes to fundamental game code, those claiming to be gorbesh are just Kaldar with Gorbeshian beliefs.
We know there are 2 camps on this topic (Gorbeshian Kaldars v. Kaldaran Gorbesh), I didn't really mean to rehash it yet again. I think your arguments are sound and you point out some glaring inconsistencies, but I just can't argue with the fact that no matter what I have Hanryu believe, he's still a Kaldar, as are the rest of the tall Albarian PCs (all of whom worship the 13/39 insert crack about favor system). I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree and hope that our new GM (hai btw, in case I missed saying that) puts this argument to rest.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
4/14/0 - 5 days
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 02:09 PM CST
>> That's all well and good, except for the glaring part that no PC in game is marked as "a Gorbesh".
By your argument I can't RP a Mountain Elf because all anyone sees when they look at me is a plain ol' Elf.
You're using mechanics to argue roleplay. Fair enough, I guess, but realize not everyone is going to agree with you.
Rev. Reene
Gylwyn says to you, "Heretics are often the finders of truth."
By your argument I can't RP a Mountain Elf because all anyone sees when they look at me is a plain ol' Elf.
You're using mechanics to argue roleplay. Fair enough, I guess, but realize not everyone is going to agree with you.
Rev. Reene
Gylwyn says to you, "Heretics are often the finders of truth."
SAUVA
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 02:29 PM CST
> By your argument I can't RP a Mountain Elf because all anyone sees when they look at me is a plain ol' Elf.
Any TypeElf is still an elf. The question here is are Kaldar a "political party" of Gorbesh or are Gorbesh a "political party" of Kaldar. Since the PC race is marked as Kaldar, I'm voting for the latter.
> You're using mechanics to argue roleplay. Fair enough, I guess, but realize not everyone is going to agree with you.
Yea, not great and I expect that my stance won't be universally supported, but you have to draw the line somewhere or you end up with "winged" idiots running around claiming to have jewels in their chest that they got implanted on Evermeet island.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
4/14/0 - 5 days
Any TypeElf is still an elf. The question here is are Kaldar a "political party" of Gorbesh or are Gorbesh a "political party" of Kaldar. Since the PC race is marked as Kaldar, I'm voting for the latter.
> You're using mechanics to argue roleplay. Fair enough, I guess, but realize not everyone is going to agree with you.
Yea, not great and I expect that my stance won't be universally supported, but you have to draw the line somewhere or you end up with "winged" idiots running around claiming to have jewels in their chest that they got implanted on Evermeet island.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
"But I say if you're going going to eat a creature alive, you have to expect some screaming. That is the carnivore's burden."
4/14/0 - 5 days
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 02:50 PM CST
>> The question here is are Kaldar a "political party" of Gorbesh or are Gorbesh a "political party" of Kaldar. Since the PC race is marked as Kaldar, I'm voting for the latter.
They are marked as Kaldar because that is the group that was identified as splitting off from the Gorbesh (and the Gorbesh did come first if the timelines and books tell us anything) and coming to Kermoria.
Your issue here seems to be that you are asserting that the actual name of the species is Kaldar, while Gorbesh is the political designation versus the other way around. In that case there is still no problem with a Kaldar calling themselves Gorbesh from where I'm sitting, it's purely a philosophy difference.
>> Yea, not great and I expect that my stance won't be universally supported, but you have to draw the line somewhere or you end up with "winged" idiots running around claiming to have jewels in their chest that they got implanted on Evermeet island.
Reductio ad absurdum is actually a logical fallacy, particularly when the arguments we are making are drawn from established canon of the game we're playing versus some other damn game.
Rev. Reene
Gylwyn says to you, "Heretics are often the finders of truth."
They are marked as Kaldar because that is the group that was identified as splitting off from the Gorbesh (and the Gorbesh did come first if the timelines and books tell us anything) and coming to Kermoria.
Your issue here seems to be that you are asserting that the actual name of the species is Kaldar, while Gorbesh is the political designation versus the other way around. In that case there is still no problem with a Kaldar calling themselves Gorbesh from where I'm sitting, it's purely a philosophy difference.
>> Yea, not great and I expect that my stance won't be universally supported, but you have to draw the line somewhere or you end up with "winged" idiots running around claiming to have jewels in their chest that they got implanted on Evermeet island.
Reductio ad absurdum is actually a logical fallacy, particularly when the arguments we are making are drawn from established canon of the game we're playing versus some other damn game.
Rev. Reene
Gylwyn says to you, "Heretics are often the finders of truth."
WYATTB2
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 03:25 PM CST
I argued it this way some time ago. Think of it like modern day China and Taiwan. If you live in Taiwan, you are very unlikely to think of yourself as Chinese. You are Taiwanisse or whatever. However, if you ask someone in China they will likely recognize you as from Taiwan but it won't change that that fact that you are Chinesse.
To a Gorbesh you can be Kaldar all you like, nothing wrong with being Kaldar however it does not change that fact that you are still Gorbesh. Now as Kaldar one can certainly take offense at that.
However, I would argue that from a RACE standpoint all Kaldar have Gorbesh blood running through theur viens. In the same way that Elves are still Elves racially regardless of affiliation. The character manager does not really trump IG lore in my opinion. However, from an IC since I can certainly see taking great offense at being call a Gorbesh.
To a Gorbesh you can be Kaldar all you like, nothing wrong with being Kaldar however it does not change that fact that you are still Gorbesh. Now as Kaldar one can certainly take offense at that.
However, I would argue that from a RACE standpoint all Kaldar have Gorbesh blood running through theur viens. In the same way that Elves are still Elves racially regardless of affiliation. The character manager does not really trump IG lore in my opinion. However, from an IC since I can certainly see taking great offense at being call a Gorbesh.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 04:04 PM CST
Bear in mind that the Great Schism happened 470-and-change years ago. You're not going to get Kaldar with more eyes or a tail, but that is plenty of time to establish a racial or national identity -- Americans have done it with considerably less.
Perfectly legitimate to say that the Kaldar and Gorbesh are the same species, just as all Elves or all Humans are...but to minimize that to then say the difference is like Democrats and Republicans is extreme and ignores some critical pieces of the race's backstory ("You think Xin'Alaudas is WHAT?").
-Armifer
"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
-Viktor Frankl
Perfectly legitimate to say that the Kaldar and Gorbesh are the same species, just as all Elves or all Humans are...but to minimize that to then say the difference is like Democrats and Republicans is extreme and ignores some critical pieces of the race's backstory ("You think Xin'Alaudas is WHAT?").
-Armifer
"...everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
-Viktor Frankl
LADYSCORPION
Re: Kaldar Meet and Greet Gathering
11/19/2008 07:20 PM CST
<<Political party or not the tall race from Albaria in DR as it stands right now is not gorbesh. It's Kaldar. Let's just keep that in mind. The day I can touch a gorbesh statue in the character roller I'll agree with this whole kaldar are like democrats mumbo jumbo.
To some degree I agree with Hanryu, in order to be productive, focus on what we have, not what we don't have. Developing Kaldar culture is a positive thing (whether you are of Gorbesh culture or Kermorian). The reality is that we will never see a playable Gorbesh race in DragonRealms.*
*Disclaimer: Not saying that it isn't possible, because it is. Simply, it's not worth the manpower. If I had to choose between starting over with a new with exactly the same character penalties and bonuses, I'd say gimme a new Lore System
<<That's all well and good, except for the glaring part that no PC in game is marked as "a Gorbesh".
I understand your point, Hanryu, but it's called diversity.
Introduce shifts, titles, more character flairs that can help the playable Kaldar show the difference between the two.
Kaldar Development is the only way people are going to recognize the difference between Kaldar & Gorbesh other than a character decking themself out head to toe in Clenched Fists.
Gorbesh have plenty of defining, I think it is the Kaldar that need more.
--Vyraka--
