Technically, you aren't supposed to HoJ and accuse. You have four choices for resolution of stealing: HoJ, accuse, attacking, or ignore.

Player of Benzali Palazin

Hmm, I never knew that. Thanks for the response.


Nos

Instead of accusing, which fines them a few gold, ruins their bonus, and just annoys the heck out of them.. with HoJ you..

..tickled their palm, forcing them to use some of the yelith root and hisan salve they stole. By the way, they STILL stole yer money!

We need HoJ fixed :p

Can't tend internals.

Calemnon

they should not get the coin when you HoJ them
there is no point to the spell if they still get the money
and if you crush ones hand then the coins should fall down or you shold be able to get them from he's hand

Raph explained this one well.

Why we cant accuse a thief when we see them stealing from others or when others catch a thief.

Cause if the one they are stealing from doesnt care or doesnt want to report it, then it's not a crime. That's the rough version of how he put it. They choose not to press charges, you cant press them for that person.

Not a paladins job seriously. We are not town guards. Some adapt our mission of protecting people to mean from petty theft. Which isnt necessarily accurate, our skills and abilities point to a protecting people from attack, loss of items from death or theft, and leading forces against aggressors. Our sixth sense is more of a warning to tell you to close up or get out of the area, since we are unable to steal this becomes our passive warning system. I dont see in too many places where our guild abilities have us stopping theft, we get a soul bonus because it's doing good, like tending, not because we are supposed to be a guard or cop.

Shiv

Why? Do you know if that person cares or not that they are being stolen from? First you need to inform that person they are being stolen from. Second, you need to find out if they do indeed care that they are being stolen from. Then could you actually attempt to accuse them. But really think about this, there is an element of fantasy in the legal system today.

Think of this from your character's perspective:
Shivus sees a s'kra mur about 5' 10" maybe 210 lbs, camo colored with a hooded face stealing from Bistro (who's blind as a bat from old age). Shivus shouts out "Bistro, you are being robbed!" Bistro turns to his pockets and looks down in shock to see a clawed hand removing his prized pink fluffy bunny from his pouch and shouts "thief! thief!" Skra with bunny in hand streaks off into the crowd knowing the alleys and short cuts well and eventually loses Bistro and Shivus who chase after him. Bistro and Shivus run to the guard house and file a report.

From a coding perspetive you only recognize people by their names, so even though Shivus has never met this example S'kra he magically knows that the name of the thief is Bobo or Jojo. Right now the system is not set up for such an accurate form of accusal. So unless you want to try and file a report not based on a name the system tells you the thief is but on how they look. I would suggest giving it a rest on how one cant accuse when seeing someone steal from someone else. Think of it as though you are in downtown New York City during lunch break or rush hour. Are you going to know who's got their hand in your pocket?

Shivus

And there ya have it! no wonder I've been cranky. =)
And I'm still waiting on those damn guards to get the culprit, my poor pink fluffy bunny. <g>



Sss'Kra Mur Bissstro - DragonKNIGHT

>A crime is only a crime when the person it's committed upon presses charges

This certainly is NOT true in RL. A crime is committed against the people of a state or the people of the United States. The people of a state or the United States are the ones who are listed as the plaintiffs in a criminal case, NOT the victim.

Charges are "pressed" by the state or the united states (in the form of District Attorneys or United State's Attorneys). Charges may be pursued regardless of whether a victim wants to press charges or not.

>If the person the thief is stealing from doesnt care to press charges or infact gave permission to the thief to test how good they are then there is no crime.

Again, this is not really true in RL. While it is not really theft if the person allows you to take something (they are giving it to you), this is not the case with other crimes. In other words, you cannot kill somone, even if they give you permission to do it (except some of the new assisted suicide laws).

Now, we play in Elanthia, so the rules here certainly do not have to follow RL, but I have never read anything in DR that indicates that a victim must press charges before a crime exists, in fact the notice outside the Crossing Bank would seem to argue for just the opposite position.

So, if the powers that be in Elanthia wish to make it a crime if anyone witnesses someone stealing from another, whether the victim gave permission or not, they can certainly do so - that's what being a sovereign is all about. <g>

Gloryarm

If the person doesn't mind being stolen from, he should go to the guard and clear the charges on the thief, but we should still be able to accuse if we see it.

Oh... and not until the American justice system did people get the idea(falsely) that charges must be pressed by the victim for their to be a crime. In every other legal system of the era which DR is based around, it was a crime whether or not the victim "pressed charges".

Calemnon the paladin

Calem, we're at an impasse here. I do not agree with you on this issue, I would also comment that if the person clears the thief of charges then the person who made the charges in the first place should be charged with false accusations. Because you are acting on incomplete knowledge of the happenings and therefore wasting the legal system's time and money along with falsely accusing the supposed thief.

Putting this aside. Do you at least recognize that for all the arguments we make about stealing and thieves they could come back just as easily and claim the system should not expose their names and all you can do is give a vague physical description of the thief instead? Think of it in terms of a system balance, you can do all the things you should be able to do, but you do some things that you shouldnt be able to as well. It's all in the balance.

Shiv

actually, the system as it currently stands is much heavierly weighted to the protection of the "victim" than the "thief".

When people can run across the entire crossing in the time it takes to try to pick a pocket--the "stealee" is at more advantage than the potential pickpocket.

There are 2 words which virtually killed pickpocketing.

They are..... "approach time".

So unless a Paladin is Actively looking to be stolen from--it just is not happening.


-the ex-pickpocket who steals stuff that sells for plats and pawns it for coppers-

crime doesn't pay. trading pays.

schvartz

>Except that the approach timer is completely gone at 20th circle with a certain ability.

Not if they take at least 2 bonus hits, then they get approach time no matter how much stealing they have.

Apu

We should be able to do both... grr...

>>Why? You dont HAVE to HoJ. If you kill someone, should you be arrested, take the soul hit, AND be killed yourself?

We have a choice.

Don't have HoJ up, and miss them steal completely, or have it up and never accuse as a result.

We need a set !aggression or something, so we can choose NOT to crush hands.

actually with clarity up you do know about that ability, if your able to sense it. You sense so and so MARKING you. Ohh we know all to well ;)

Tyden

Fact remains is that paladins are STILL the easiest targets for thieves.... SOMETHING should be done about this...

It's unfair to hinder a guild like that without giving them something that makes up for the lack of stealing ranks.

I still say since we can't have stealing ranks, our perception ranks should count as double. In place of stealing.

-hansley->>