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For my own curiosity, I start a discussion over here similar to what I've done for Paladins and Rangers. What are your top and bottom 5 spells and why?
Please note - one major difference between this conversation and those - I feel Moon Mage magic is in a much better place (I've sunk a lot more hours into it for one thing) and I've recently spent a fair chunk of time cleaning up the spellbooks (Psychic Project and Teleologic Sorcery aside since those projects aren't done. I didn't do a pass on Moonlight Manipulation either, but that's because I just didn't really see much there that needed work). So keep that in mind as far as expectations for development that might arise from this conversation.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
DR-RAESH
PRIMEQ
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 02:09 PM CDT
Let me begin by saying that the MM spellbook is pretty great. I don't have a lot of complaints. The spells I don't like I can typically skip. Good job on these and looking forward to seeing what else you do.
Top 5
1. Read the Ripples
2. Riftal Summons
3. Moongate
4. Shadow Servant
5. Shadewatch Mirror
These spells need no real explanation. They are the most powerful Utility spells in the game, unique and interesting. RTR may be niche for some but I personally love a quick way to fuel our predictions.
Bottom 5
1. Moonblade -- It just feels like a waste. Why spend a slot for a mediocre weapon that's only around when the moons are, when I could save the slot and simply use high-carbon steel? Or better yet, save up and get a rare-metal weapon? And wait, I have to spend another slot to change it to the weapon I actually use? Empowering has not seemed worth that much either. A spell battery is a nice idea, but it's too expensive for a simple set of three spells -- and again, only around with that moon, AND from what I've heard it doesn't even save you the mana when you invoke the spells.
2. Steps of Vuan -- It's buggy and difficult to communicate with your group. You can't tell who is saying what, you can't tell if you left someone behind, you can't whisper. It's nice to have a cyclic invisibility spell but it stings that if that's all you want it for, you still have to take RF first.
3. Unleash -- Included because it has so much potential that I feel is unrealized. In order to be awesome, you must keep tons of individual spells on you, which are difficult to juggle even with the new labeling system. You can't use it with a spellbook (which would help with usability AND be cool looking). I'm hoping that it will see an improvement when spell folios come out.
4. Shear -- Maybe I was using this spell wrong, but when I had it, it barely lasted a minute or two. I was attempting it in PVE vs. the Adan'f and in the end just gave up on it. In PVP it may be useful for a very short time, but with the new cooldown on affecting people with stuns, it just seems lackluster.
5. Hypnotize -- Again, great potential, but interacts so poorly with the critter system. I have to try to "cast first hog", and then second, third, etc., all while hoping a new hog doesn't enter or a current hog exit. Once I banish things from the room they just come wandering back immediately. Calmed critters are still spammy with messaging.
Honorable mention to the sorceries, which I can't comment on much but I've never found very enticing.
- Navesi
Top 5
1. Read the Ripples
2. Riftal Summons
3. Moongate
4. Shadow Servant
5. Shadewatch Mirror
These spells need no real explanation. They are the most powerful Utility spells in the game, unique and interesting. RTR may be niche for some but I personally love a quick way to fuel our predictions.
Bottom 5
1. Moonblade -- It just feels like a waste. Why spend a slot for a mediocre weapon that's only around when the moons are, when I could save the slot and simply use high-carbon steel? Or better yet, save up and get a rare-metal weapon? And wait, I have to spend another slot to change it to the weapon I actually use? Empowering has not seemed worth that much either. A spell battery is a nice idea, but it's too expensive for a simple set of three spells -- and again, only around with that moon, AND from what I've heard it doesn't even save you the mana when you invoke the spells.
2. Steps of Vuan -- It's buggy and difficult to communicate with your group. You can't tell who is saying what, you can't tell if you left someone behind, you can't whisper. It's nice to have a cyclic invisibility spell but it stings that if that's all you want it for, you still have to take RF first.
3. Unleash -- Included because it has so much potential that I feel is unrealized. In order to be awesome, you must keep tons of individual spells on you, which are difficult to juggle even with the new labeling system. You can't use it with a spellbook (which would help with usability AND be cool looking). I'm hoping that it will see an improvement when spell folios come out.
4. Shear -- Maybe I was using this spell wrong, but when I had it, it barely lasted a minute or two. I was attempting it in PVE vs. the Adan'f and in the end just gave up on it. In PVP it may be useful for a very short time, but with the new cooldown on affecting people with stuns, it just seems lackluster.
5. Hypnotize -- Again, great potential, but interacts so poorly with the critter system. I have to try to "cast first hog", and then second, third, etc., all while hoping a new hog doesn't enter or a current hog exit. Once I banish things from the room they just come wandering back immediately. Calmed critters are still spammy with messaging.
Honorable mention to the sorceries, which I can't comment on much but I've never found very enticing.
- Navesi
GABRIEL4
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 02:31 PM CDT
Top 5:
1. Moongate/Teleport/Riftal Summons - For the sake of completeness and not cluttering up my top 5 with only teleportation spells I'm including these three as one group since they're basically a complete suite together. All the various things that can be done with this suite is the main thing I miss the most when playing other characters. Being able to be anywhere in game within a few minutes using the astral plane and teleport shortcuts and getting others there with either a gate or rift is hands down the best thing since sliced bread.
2. Shadowling - Attunement regeneration that lasts 90+ minutes. Enough said.
3. Shadow Servant - Portable living vault that holds 300 items. I would have so much burden issues as a Gnome without this.
4. Telekinetic Storm - This is my go to TM spell. Really sad it's current form is probably going away, although being replaced by whatever Shadow Web is going to become will likely be an acceptable replacement.
5. Unleash - This saves so many slots for spells that you might want to only occasionally use such as Analogous Patterns, and opens wide the door on being able to use a variety of sorcerous spells.
Honorable mentions:
Read the Ripples - I haven't tried the new prediction based spells (RTR, DC, and BC) but I suspect I would really like Read the Ripples if I made the decision to stop using teleo.
Steps of Vuan - Infinite duration invisibility
Mind Shout - The current version is nice, but annoying sometimes because of the restrictions. I suspect the new restricion-less version that's on test will push it into my top 5.
Mental Blast - This is my go to debilitator, but since I'm just PvE it's not that big of a deal to me. It's definitely a very nice spell though. I could easily include it in my top 5 just because it's a good spell.
Bottom 5:
1. Calm - Meh. This is basically just a pre-requisite for me. It gets replaced by Sleep as soon as you learn it since Sleep does essentially the same thing but with the added benefit of making the target easier to hit and without the annoyance of it running away or retreating. And Sleep itself suffers from the same relegation to being a pre-requisite eventually so it's a double whammy for Calm. The only unique effect of being able to make your target do stuff requires the metaspell and is a pain to use, since it's only single target and takes so long to achieve a worthwhile effect on multiple targets that you can't accomplish anything else before it wears off.
2. Shear - I don't PvP so have very little use for this. In PvE there's little use for the ward, since since creature spells don't actually hit very hard so it's not worth using Shear and losing your own casting ability to be able to protect against them.
3. Empower Moonblade - I like Moonblade and Shape Moonblade (not quite enough to make top 5, but definitely well enough) but this spell is pretty much pointless right now. I had it for a while on principle, since I really do like moonblades and want to say I have full capability with them but I literally never used EMMO's ability and the 2 slots spent on it really hurt so I forgot it.
4. Partial Displacement/Dinazen Olkar - Neither spell is in the bottom five for me on their own merits, but rather the redundancy of both spells. They are essentially identical spells with only the damage type being different, so one of them becomes pretty much useless once you have the other. This will likely change with the new armor piercing template that PD will be getting.
5. Sleep - Like Calm, this is basically another pre-requisite for me. Mental Blast has the exact same effect with more stuff added.
All in all, I think Moon Mage spells are the best in the game for how I like to play despite some of the stinkers.
1. Moongate/Teleport/Riftal Summons - For the sake of completeness and not cluttering up my top 5 with only teleportation spells I'm including these three as one group since they're basically a complete suite together. All the various things that can be done with this suite is the main thing I miss the most when playing other characters. Being able to be anywhere in game within a few minutes using the astral plane and teleport shortcuts and getting others there with either a gate or rift is hands down the best thing since sliced bread.
2. Shadowling - Attunement regeneration that lasts 90+ minutes. Enough said.
3. Shadow Servant - Portable living vault that holds 300 items. I would have so much burden issues as a Gnome without this.
4. Telekinetic Storm - This is my go to TM spell. Really sad it's current form is probably going away, although being replaced by whatever Shadow Web is going to become will likely be an acceptable replacement.
5. Unleash - This saves so many slots for spells that you might want to only occasionally use such as Analogous Patterns, and opens wide the door on being able to use a variety of sorcerous spells.
Honorable mentions:
Read the Ripples - I haven't tried the new prediction based spells (RTR, DC, and BC) but I suspect I would really like Read the Ripples if I made the decision to stop using teleo.
Steps of Vuan - Infinite duration invisibility
Mind Shout - The current version is nice, but annoying sometimes because of the restrictions. I suspect the new restricion-less version that's on test will push it into my top 5.
Mental Blast - This is my go to debilitator, but since I'm just PvE it's not that big of a deal to me. It's definitely a very nice spell though. I could easily include it in my top 5 just because it's a good spell.
Bottom 5:
1. Calm - Meh. This is basically just a pre-requisite for me. It gets replaced by Sleep as soon as you learn it since Sleep does essentially the same thing but with the added benefit of making the target easier to hit and without the annoyance of it running away or retreating. And Sleep itself suffers from the same relegation to being a pre-requisite eventually so it's a double whammy for Calm. The only unique effect of being able to make your target do stuff requires the metaspell and is a pain to use, since it's only single target and takes so long to achieve a worthwhile effect on multiple targets that you can't accomplish anything else before it wears off.
2. Shear - I don't PvP so have very little use for this. In PvE there's little use for the ward, since since creature spells don't actually hit very hard so it's not worth using Shear and losing your own casting ability to be able to protect against them.
3. Empower Moonblade - I like Moonblade and Shape Moonblade (not quite enough to make top 5, but definitely well enough) but this spell is pretty much pointless right now. I had it for a while on principle, since I really do like moonblades and want to say I have full capability with them but I literally never used EMMO's ability and the 2 slots spent on it really hurt so I forgot it.
4. Partial Displacement/Dinazen Olkar - Neither spell is in the bottom five for me on their own merits, but rather the redundancy of both spells. They are essentially identical spells with only the damage type being different, so one of them becomes pretty much useless once you have the other. This will likely change with the new armor piercing template that PD will be getting.
5. Sleep - Like Calm, this is basically another pre-requisite for me. Mental Blast has the exact same effect with more stuff added.
All in all, I think Moon Mage spells are the best in the game for how I like to play despite some of the stinkers.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 02:54 PM CDT
1) Shadowing - There is never enough mana. I also love the idea of binding an extra-planar entity to my shadow.
2) Shadow Servant - Bigger than my premium vault and always close at hand. What is not to like?
3) Contingency - a life saver. It is also nice to precast a teleport. I think it might be buggy with the new changes (sometimes it fails to teleport me short distances at max mana even though it works when I recast it).
4) Moongate
5) Riftal Summons - With the recent distance changes it is a great spell. It was especially fun before people became used to stepping through the freakish rip in reality.
1) Burn - The only reason I ever cast this spell is to try and prove to myself it is useful. It has its role when fighting someone with shield >>> evasion but in the PvE world this doesn't come up much. When you add the fact that it is light dependant and cannot be cast indoors I never find a reason to use it. To make matters worse I am forced to learn it in order to learn CoL, which is a spell I do us.
2) Telekinetic Throw [tkt]/Telekinetic Storm [tks] - "There is nothing here that can be thrown, so the spell fails" - probably the most annoying part of the whole spell. Unless you happen to know moonblade it does the exact same damage type as PD (although now PD is an armour piercing spell). Furthermore it does only physical damage, making it inferior to DO in most cases. TKS is redeemed only by the fact that it is our only TM teacher but if that ever changes I will feel the same about it. Once again, I dislike the fact that I need to learn it to learn some more useful spells later in the tree.
3) Psychic Shield [psy] - I never seem to use it for anything and, in most cases, Shear or LW are better options.
4) Calm/Hypnotize/Sleep - We have mental blast. Plus hypnotize doesn't really add anything useful to calm. I could easily go without it. Maybe if sleep was an alternative metaspell to calm?
5) Moonblade - A sub par weapon that a) needs to be recast b) requires a significant investment of spell slots and/or forging techniques to match the weapons that I am currently using. I just don't see how empower moon blade is that useful. It saves you some prep time. Most of the time you will need to harness or use cambrinth anyway, which negates the benefit anyway.
2) Shadow Servant - Bigger than my premium vault and always close at hand. What is not to like?
3) Contingency - a life saver. It is also nice to precast a teleport. I think it might be buggy with the new changes (sometimes it fails to teleport me short distances at max mana even though it works when I recast it).
4) Moongate
5) Riftal Summons - With the recent distance changes it is a great spell. It was especially fun before people became used to stepping through the freakish rip in reality.
1) Burn - The only reason I ever cast this spell is to try and prove to myself it is useful. It has its role when fighting someone with shield >>> evasion but in the PvE world this doesn't come up much. When you add the fact that it is light dependant and cannot be cast indoors I never find a reason to use it. To make matters worse I am forced to learn it in order to learn CoL, which is a spell I do us.
2) Telekinetic Throw [tkt]/Telekinetic Storm [tks] - "There is nothing here that can be thrown, so the spell fails" - probably the most annoying part of the whole spell. Unless you happen to know moonblade it does the exact same damage type as PD (although now PD is an armour piercing spell). Furthermore it does only physical damage, making it inferior to DO in most cases. TKS is redeemed only by the fact that it is our only TM teacher but if that ever changes I will feel the same about it. Once again, I dislike the fact that I need to learn it to learn some more useful spells later in the tree.
3) Psychic Shield [psy] - I never seem to use it for anything and, in most cases, Shear or LW are better options.
4) Calm/Hypnotize/Sleep - We have mental blast. Plus hypnotize doesn't really add anything useful to calm. I could easily go without it. Maybe if sleep was an alternative metaspell to calm?
5) Moonblade - A sub par weapon that a) needs to be recast b) requires a significant investment of spell slots and/or forging techniques to match the weapons that I am currently using. I just don't see how empower moon blade is that useful. It saves you some prep time. Most of the time you will need to harness or use cambrinth anyway, which negates the benefit anyway.
KASHIK
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 03:14 PM CDT
My current moon mage isn't leveled enough to really have any investment in spells yet, so some thoughts based on my old (mostly non-combat) mage:
Top 5:
1.) Thoughtcast - This made me feel the most Moon Mageish of any spell, and just thematically felt great. I'm aware it's largely replicated by rings, and I wish it wasn't, but such is life.
2.) The Teleportation Suite - Taking a queue from Gabriel4, this set of spells is just bonkers good, as a concept, and for the most part in execution.
3.) Distant Gaze - See Thoughtcast.
4.) Steps of Vuan - I'm assuming a bit, because I don't have it, but RF was great back in the day. One of my go-to Get Out of Jail Free cards.
5.) Aura Sight - Really, all the buffs, because I like being able to spell up to higher effectiveness. I'm realizing a lot of my top 5 are because they have a magey feel.
Bottom 5:
1.) Moonblade/Shape - If Shape Moonblade were rolled into the basic spell, this would move out of the bottom 5 for me. I don't see how shaping is worth an extra slot, esp. since versatility is most of the strength of this spell.
2.) Calm - Really just onerous to use. Plus the effects get replicated.
3.) Sleep - Same
4.) Psychic Shield - maybe this is more useful in PVP, or after the barrier rewrite.
5.) Shift Moonbeam - I really want to like this spell more, but I wish it didn't require a located target or room-to-room shifting. If I'm going to be able to locate-shift back to town, why not just let me shift back to town without the locate?
Overall, our kit is really strong, though.
~Kashik
Top 5:
1.) Thoughtcast - This made me feel the most Moon Mageish of any spell, and just thematically felt great. I'm aware it's largely replicated by rings, and I wish it wasn't, but such is life.
2.) The Teleportation Suite - Taking a queue from Gabriel4, this set of spells is just bonkers good, as a concept, and for the most part in execution.
3.) Distant Gaze - See Thoughtcast.
4.) Steps of Vuan - I'm assuming a bit, because I don't have it, but RF was great back in the day. One of my go-to Get Out of Jail Free cards.
5.) Aura Sight - Really, all the buffs, because I like being able to spell up to higher effectiveness. I'm realizing a lot of my top 5 are because they have a magey feel.
Bottom 5:
1.) Moonblade/Shape - If Shape Moonblade were rolled into the basic spell, this would move out of the bottom 5 for me. I don't see how shaping is worth an extra slot, esp. since versatility is most of the strength of this spell.
2.) Calm - Really just onerous to use. Plus the effects get replicated.
3.) Sleep - Same
4.) Psychic Shield - maybe this is more useful in PVP, or after the barrier rewrite.
5.) Shift Moonbeam - I really want to like this spell more, but I wish it didn't require a located target or room-to-room shifting. If I'm going to be able to locate-shift back to town, why not just let me shift back to town without the locate?
Overall, our kit is really strong, though.
~Kashik
GABRIEL4
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 03:35 PM CDT
<<If I'm going to be able to locate-shift back to town, why not just let me shift back to town without the locate?
I would argue that that's not the primary purpose of being able to locate shift to a person, and that teleporting back to town is better accomplished via the 100th circle ability.
I would argue that that's not the primary purpose of being able to locate shift to a person, and that teleporting back to town is better accomplished via the 100th circle ability.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 03:36 PM CDT
>>1.) Moonblade/Shape - If Shape Moonblade were rolled into the basic spell, this would move out of the bottom 5 for me. I don't see how shaping is worth an extra slot, esp. since versatility is most of the strength of this spell.
Just to shed some light on the design process here...
Bear in mind that as far as we are concerned, "a standard spell" is 2 slots. That is, we design for two slots in mind, two slots is the nominal price of a unique utility, and so on. This doesn't always hold up for various reasons, but that's the broad goal.
I pushed Shape into its own spell because I wanted a solid excuse to make Moonblade's core a 1-slot spell, in case someone wanted to go the EMMO (and later Teleologic stuff) route without caring so much about its weapon potential.* It is entirely possible we could smash the two spells together, but at that point the spell slot cost will increase to "a standard spell" and you effectively get the same thing.
* There is a bug that requires SHMO to use most of EMMO's functionality, but that's being fixed in 3.2.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Just to shed some light on the design process here...
Bear in mind that as far as we are concerned, "a standard spell" is 2 slots. That is, we design for two slots in mind, two slots is the nominal price of a unique utility, and so on. This doesn't always hold up for various reasons, but that's the broad goal.
I pushed Shape into its own spell because I wanted a solid excuse to make Moonblade's core a 1-slot spell, in case someone wanted to go the EMMO (and later Teleologic stuff) route without caring so much about its weapon potential.* It is entirely possible we could smash the two spells together, but at that point the spell slot cost will increase to "a standard spell" and you effectively get the same thing.
* There is a bug that requires SHMO to use most of EMMO's functionality, but that's being fixed in 3.2.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 04:36 PM CDT
Top 5
Teleport / Moongate / RS The travel spells. They are the reason most people make a MM
Sleep A lot of folks put this as bottom, but its extremely useful to put somebody on their backside, allows prone effect much easier than MB and uses a lot less mana. I like MB but unless you out stat your opponent significantly sleep is a much better option. MB is basically a mana sink. It might become a lot more useful to me with stacking nerve damage.
Burn Regardless of the fact I think most of our TM is pretty lackluster. Burn usually seems to work better then most in a lot of cases.
Read the Ripples For easily filling pools to train astrology, and get those predictions that come in handy.
IOTS I like the fact that I can normally buff each of the skillsets, sometimes a planet isn't visible for it, but a lot of the times they are.
There are a lot of spells in the MM arsenal that I don't really care for, but a lot of them fill their purpose so its hard to really say anything particularly negative about them. There are a few though.
EMMO As it stands, its horrible. I got it, and have tried to find a way to make it useful. There really isn't a way for that to happen. If it still allowed mana to be stored in conjunction with the spells in the nodes, it probably would be useful.
Moonblade Like a lot of folks have said, its kinda lackluster, I have all incarnations of moonblade with the meta's at the moment but will probably get rid of them at some point. I use SHMO for backtraining some weapons since I can just shape it to the next weapon I want to train. Other than that pretty lackluster unless you get all the requirments for the maxed version. Even then I just use all rare metal weapons for the ones I train regularly.
Hypnotize Nothing much to say about this one but meh.
TKT I think this spell should go heavy TM and TKS be left as a AOE. I don't care for TKT in its current incarnation and would like to see it as a heavy TM. Back in the day I would always use a capped crafted arrow and it always seemed to hit hard. In some cases a longbow (heh) but I'd like to see it be useful.
Like I said previously a lot of our spells do what they're meant to do, though I would like to see some more TM spells that are a bit better than what we currently have which is not much. I don't mind SLS but the fact that its only usable at night, and drains mana quick makes me not even both with it most of the time. I hope that maybe a new heavy TM and that Crystal Sorrow, or Sorrow spell might give us a little more teeth.
Mind shout was in the same boat, but its amazing now since it was changed on test. The fact that it doesn't require a moonbeam, and that it gives nerve damage.
Teleport / Moongate / RS The travel spells. They are the reason most people make a MM
Sleep A lot of folks put this as bottom, but its extremely useful to put somebody on their backside, allows prone effect much easier than MB and uses a lot less mana. I like MB but unless you out stat your opponent significantly sleep is a much better option. MB is basically a mana sink. It might become a lot more useful to me with stacking nerve damage.
Burn Regardless of the fact I think most of our TM is pretty lackluster. Burn usually seems to work better then most in a lot of cases.
Read the Ripples For easily filling pools to train astrology, and get those predictions that come in handy.
IOTS I like the fact that I can normally buff each of the skillsets, sometimes a planet isn't visible for it, but a lot of the times they are.
There are a lot of spells in the MM arsenal that I don't really care for, but a lot of them fill their purpose so its hard to really say anything particularly negative about them. There are a few though.
EMMO As it stands, its horrible. I got it, and have tried to find a way to make it useful. There really isn't a way for that to happen. If it still allowed mana to be stored in conjunction with the spells in the nodes, it probably would be useful.
Moonblade Like a lot of folks have said, its kinda lackluster, I have all incarnations of moonblade with the meta's at the moment but will probably get rid of them at some point. I use SHMO for backtraining some weapons since I can just shape it to the next weapon I want to train. Other than that pretty lackluster unless you get all the requirments for the maxed version. Even then I just use all rare metal weapons for the ones I train regularly.
Hypnotize Nothing much to say about this one but meh.
TKT I think this spell should go heavy TM and TKS be left as a AOE. I don't care for TKT in its current incarnation and would like to see it as a heavy TM. Back in the day I would always use a capped crafted arrow and it always seemed to hit hard. In some cases a longbow (heh) but I'd like to see it be useful.
Like I said previously a lot of our spells do what they're meant to do, though I would like to see some more TM spells that are a bit better than what we currently have which is not much. I don't mind SLS but the fact that its only usable at night, and drains mana quick makes me not even both with it most of the time. I hope that maybe a new heavy TM and that Crystal Sorrow, or Sorrow spell might give us a little more teeth.
Mind shout was in the same boat, but its amazing now since it was changed on test. The fact that it doesn't require a moonbeam, and that it gives nerve damage.
THREEP
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 05:24 PM CDT
Top five:
1.teleport/moongate: these speak for themselves and wouldn't be nearly as good without the support spells that go with them.
2.Whole displacement: a unique spell that helps us control engagement. This is spell has saved my life from invasions as well as players. It works while stunned, held, grappled. It's like a get out of jail free card. If I don't want to be at melee with you, I'm not and I can drop it at anytime to close when needed.
3.refractive field/sov: Invisibility is a powerful tool. Steps of Vaun is probably my best utility trainer but comes with the problems of trying to be invisible while doing other stuff. All the problems mentioned before are true. Group communication is tough. Most groups find it an annoyance.
4.Shadow servant: He holds more than my vault. I have no clue what I'd do without him at this point.
5.Sleep: I don't have mental blast but sleep is a tool that helps train up my weapons when they otherwise wouldn't hit. Making something prone in short order helps a ton.
Bottom Spells:
1.Calm/hypnosis: I've had almost no reason to cast this once I got sleep.
2.empower moonblade: I've contemplated taking this spell but I don't know how I'd use it. Best use I could come up with is during an ambush. Problem is the spell I'd like to get off quickly would be a tm spell. If I'm ambushing I can wait out the prep time and then I'd need quick follow up but our debilitation are all on the same clock. We just don't have any good spells to put in there(maybe sorcery. Not too experienced there). The other use would be to cast a standard spell quickly but when would I need to do that?
3.shear: I understand the spell but my problem with it is it's a purely defensive spell. If I'm strong enough to put it up and fight without magic than I'd probably win a fight without it and using magic. If I need the spell to survive your spells, I more than likely can't rely on my weapons to fight you. Magic is our strength and this spell hurts us more than helps us unless we're running away. Maybe strategic drops and empower moon blade invokes could work but I don't know if that's feasible.
4.mechinist touch: Not a bad spell. Just niche and moon mage spells are pretty good.
5.Artificer's eye: same as above.
CRYPTODYNAMIC
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 06:17 PM CDT
For top 5, at least, I think I'm going to go with the ones that I use the most often, rather than the ones I necessarily think are the coolest:
* Seer's Sense: I don't really use the mental link functionality much, but an Evasion buff is always nice to have.
* Aura Sight: I have this spell up almost constantly, and as long as it continues to reduce my roundtime on perceiving mana, that will probably be the case.
* Sleep: Mental Blast is great too, but I can snap cast sleep and take down just about anything I have a reasonable chance of fighting, and knocking them prone helps me take stuff my weapon skills would otherwise have trouble with. Much easier on the mana management than MB, too.
* Moongate: What more needs to be said?
* Moonblade: I actually use moonblade a fair bit, even now that I've got a nice bonded weapon. Having invested in some weaponsmithing slots probably helps, though.
Honorable mentions: Shadow Servant. Having this guy around makes juggling multiple crafting disciplines so much more painless. Also, Partial Displacement as my principal TM spell.
Bottom 5 is a bit tricky, because even with spells that I haven't bothered to take, I could see myself taking many of them. Perhaps not sorcery, but that's for reasons other than the effectiveness of the spell:
* Empower Moonblade: Even as a fan of moonblade, I just don't see any reason for using this. I used the original version a fair bit, but storing just the prep time doesn't help me much.
* Mind Shout: As it stands, too much of a pain to work with to be much more than a novelty. The updates currently in test will probably remove it from here, though.
* Psychic Shield: I don't really PvP much, and in PvE my stats carry me through most of the attacks this would help against.
* Cage of Light: This has just never felt all that effective to me, but I haven't really done an in-depth study. Also, having Manifest Force as a baseline doesn't do it any favors.
* Rend: Might be useful in PvP, though I'm not sure how big an improvement it is versus just Dispel. Doesn't do much for me in PvE.
- Miskton
* Seer's Sense: I don't really use the mental link functionality much, but an Evasion buff is always nice to have.
* Aura Sight: I have this spell up almost constantly, and as long as it continues to reduce my roundtime on perceiving mana, that will probably be the case.
* Sleep: Mental Blast is great too, but I can snap cast sleep and take down just about anything I have a reasonable chance of fighting, and knocking them prone helps me take stuff my weapon skills would otherwise have trouble with. Much easier on the mana management than MB, too.
* Moongate: What more needs to be said?
* Moonblade: I actually use moonblade a fair bit, even now that I've got a nice bonded weapon. Having invested in some weaponsmithing slots probably helps, though.
Honorable mentions: Shadow Servant. Having this guy around makes juggling multiple crafting disciplines so much more painless. Also, Partial Displacement as my principal TM spell.
Bottom 5 is a bit tricky, because even with spells that I haven't bothered to take, I could see myself taking many of them. Perhaps not sorcery, but that's for reasons other than the effectiveness of the spell:
* Empower Moonblade: Even as a fan of moonblade, I just don't see any reason for using this. I used the original version a fair bit, but storing just the prep time doesn't help me much.
* Mind Shout: As it stands, too much of a pain to work with to be much more than a novelty. The updates currently in test will probably remove it from here, though.
* Psychic Shield: I don't really PvP much, and in PvE my stats carry me through most of the attacks this would help against.
* Cage of Light: This has just never felt all that effective to me, but I haven't really done an in-depth study. Also, having Manifest Force as a baseline doesn't do it any favors.
* Rend: Might be useful in PvP, though I'm not sure how big an improvement it is versus just Dispel. Doesn't do much for me in PvE.
- Miskton
NITUKI
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 06:37 PM CDT
Top (in no particular order):
* Read the Ripples: Absolutely love this spell and it fits so perfectly with my character and with what I think of when I think Moon Mages.
* Moongate/Teleport: This is Moon Mage. This is love. Amazing, guild-defining, utility that I couldn't live without.
* Shadow Servant: I an a packrat... this lets me packrat more and it is mobile. I don't think I could survive without this on my moon mage even though I stuff it with who knows what.
* SLS: Sure it has its annoying drawback, but I just love the concept and look of this spell. It makes me feel combat-mage in ways the others get close to but don't.
* Locate/Mirror: These help be part of a vast world and are such an amazing utility in a game where events happen all around.
Honorable mentions (because really Moon Mages have a large group of amazing spells): Shadowling, DO/PD, TKS (even if we can't throw Riverhaven anymore), Refractive Field (oh the places I went before the big change), Thoughtcast, and Contingency.
Bottom:
* Steps of Vaun: Amazing spell with some strange bugs/behaviors that just make it not that great of a "group" spell which is really all this is over RF.
* Artificer's Eye: Mostly just because I don't need an arcana buff anymore, but when Enchanting comes out this spell could shoot up my list.
* CoL: I love this spell but hate it when I go hunting and no moons are up for a while. It just feels like a more-restricted MAF. I'm sure this could change when the barrier review goes all through.
* Rend: Outside of PvP I've never used it. But at the same time in PvP it is amazing. It is only on this list because I love everything else.
* Read the Ripples: Absolutely love this spell and it fits so perfectly with my character and with what I think of when I think Moon Mages.
* Moongate/Teleport: This is Moon Mage. This is love. Amazing, guild-defining, utility that I couldn't live without.
* Shadow Servant: I an a packrat... this lets me packrat more and it is mobile. I don't think I could survive without this on my moon mage even though I stuff it with who knows what.
* SLS: Sure it has its annoying drawback, but I just love the concept and look of this spell. It makes me feel combat-mage in ways the others get close to but don't.
* Locate/Mirror: These help be part of a vast world and are such an amazing utility in a game where events happen all around.
Honorable mentions (because really Moon Mages have a large group of amazing spells): Shadowling, DO/PD, TKS (even if we can't throw Riverhaven anymore), Refractive Field (oh the places I went before the big change), Thoughtcast, and Contingency.
Bottom:
* Steps of Vaun: Amazing spell with some strange bugs/behaviors that just make it not that great of a "group" spell which is really all this is over RF.
* Artificer's Eye: Mostly just because I don't need an arcana buff anymore, but when Enchanting comes out this spell could shoot up my list.
* CoL: I love this spell but hate it when I go hunting and no moons are up for a while. It just feels like a more-restricted MAF. I'm sure this could change when the barrier review goes all through.
* Rend: Outside of PvP I've never used it. But at the same time in PvP it is amazing. It is only on this list because I love everything else.
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 09:27 PM CDT
top:
*Moongate (teleportation suite which I'm including fm/sm/dg) Although I do wish we could cast FM moon refresh and refresh existing beams remotely.
*RTR: For the first time prediction seems practical and useful.
*Whole Displacement: Being able to get out of nasty situations fast is invaluable. It's also satisfying to non moon mage PCs have to flee or leave the room to break engagement while I just teleport out of combat.
*IOTS: I don't use this as often as I should. I wish it was possible to get more interaction with the circles though. They're all so pretty!
*Unleash: I unleash the hell out of scrolls. I do wish it worked with scribed spellbooks and I CAN NOT WAIT for spell scroll folios and hope Unleash works with them without transcribing a scroll.
Honorable mention:
Moonblade: Yeah it has so many disadvantages and it could/should be so much better but I shaping a narrow moonblade lets me hit stuff in invasions that I can't otherwise connect with/stand toe to toe with, even with rare metal high balance weapons. This spell makes me feel like a moon mage (and a jedi). God does moonblade have a high investment cost for what you get though.
Once we get Mind Shout from test I expect it'll hit my top 5 easily.
bottom:
*Calm/Hypno: They are pointless once you learn Sleep or MB. Arguably even before you learn Sleep or MB.
*SoV: On paper it's great, but the point of the spell is to hide a group. It doesn't. Each individual member is skillchecked for stealth so basically unless you're only hiding people with equal or greater skill than your own you're always losing someone as they get searched out. On the other hand it's great at hiding people from yourself because you can't communicate with your SoV group effectively or even see who is still with you. If this spell hid everyone and only the caster's stealth skill was skillchecked each time a member of your group was searched out it would be much more valuable. If everyone within the spell's effects was aware of each other and could whisper/ooc to each other it would also help immensely.
EMMO: EMMO's RT for node swapping means you are saving very little time over a regular prep. It probably could do with another node or maybe even 2 more at cap. The other downsides of EMMO have already been posted. Apparently the word is moonblade is supposed to be a wizard staff rather than a weapon but it doesn't feel like a wizard staff by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe also make EMMO cause your moonblade to become a universal focus? The test changes are appreciated but they only scratch the surface of what this spell needs to make it worth the slots.
COL: Should be great but I never can get into the habit of using it because moons. The stretches of time where I happen to log in as moons have less than 30 minutes left in the sky or there are no moons makes me forget I even have this spell. When I do cast it I'm not sure I can even tell a difference from a protection standpoint - especially in light of the moon requirement.
TKT/TKS: You know why.
Honorable mention:
*CV: I wish the duration on this spell was longer. It's forever running out right before I cast locate.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
*Moongate (teleportation suite which I'm including fm/sm/dg) Although I do wish we could cast FM moon refresh and refresh existing beams remotely.
*RTR: For the first time prediction seems practical and useful.
*Whole Displacement: Being able to get out of nasty situations fast is invaluable. It's also satisfying to non moon mage PCs have to flee or leave the room to break engagement while I just teleport out of combat.
*IOTS: I don't use this as often as I should. I wish it was possible to get more interaction with the circles though. They're all so pretty!
*Unleash: I unleash the hell out of scrolls. I do wish it worked with scribed spellbooks and I CAN NOT WAIT for spell scroll folios and hope Unleash works with them without transcribing a scroll.
Honorable mention:
Moonblade: Yeah it has so many disadvantages and it could/should be so much better but I shaping a narrow moonblade lets me hit stuff in invasions that I can't otherwise connect with/stand toe to toe with, even with rare metal high balance weapons. This spell makes me feel like a moon mage (and a jedi). God does moonblade have a high investment cost for what you get though.
Once we get Mind Shout from test I expect it'll hit my top 5 easily.
bottom:
*Calm/Hypno: They are pointless once you learn Sleep or MB. Arguably even before you learn Sleep or MB.
*SoV: On paper it's great, but the point of the spell is to hide a group. It doesn't. Each individual member is skillchecked for stealth so basically unless you're only hiding people with equal or greater skill than your own you're always losing someone as they get searched out. On the other hand it's great at hiding people from yourself because you can't communicate with your SoV group effectively or even see who is still with you. If this spell hid everyone and only the caster's stealth skill was skillchecked each time a member of your group was searched out it would be much more valuable. If everyone within the spell's effects was aware of each other and could whisper/ooc to each other it would also help immensely.
EMMO: EMMO's RT for node swapping means you are saving very little time over a regular prep. It probably could do with another node or maybe even 2 more at cap. The other downsides of EMMO have already been posted. Apparently the word is moonblade is supposed to be a wizard staff rather than a weapon but it doesn't feel like a wizard staff by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe also make EMMO cause your moonblade to become a universal focus? The test changes are appreciated but they only scratch the surface of what this spell needs to make it worth the slots.
COL: Should be great but I never can get into the habit of using it because moons. The stretches of time where I happen to log in as moons have less than 30 minutes left in the sky or there are no moons makes me forget I even have this spell. When I do cast it I'm not sure I can even tell a difference from a protection standpoint - especially in light of the moon requirement.
TKT/TKS: You know why.
Honorable mention:
*CV: I wish the duration on this spell was longer. It's forever running out right before I cast locate.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
NITUKI
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/06/2016 10:00 PM CDT
I just thought I would add that I completely forgot about the existence of Moonblade/SHMO/EMMO so much that I didn't even put them in my list of bottom spells. I was even looking at the spell tree and must instinctively just ignore that entire area because I didn't see them until I just read the last post. I'm sure some people might like them, but with the new world of weapons I just rarely feel the need for any of these.
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 02:58 PM CDT
< On paper it's great, but the point of the spell is to hide a group. It doesn't. Each individual member is skillchecked for stealth so basically unless you're only hiding people with equal or greater skill than your own you're always losing someone as they get searched out.
I was going to mention this same thing. It basically makes the spell useless for me. If I wanted to use this it would be for cloaking folks with me that might not be skilled enough to be in a particular area. When the spell first came out I actually thought it might work this way and was helping a guy get through the ratha sewers and to swains. Needless to say it didn't work at all and just seemed like a huge waste of spell slots to me. It would be useful even if it checked the casters stealth and operated at 75% of base stealth.
I was going to mention this same thing. It basically makes the spell useless for me. If I wanted to use this it would be for cloaking folks with me that might not be skilled enough to be in a particular area. When the spell first came out I actually thought it might work this way and was helping a guy get through the ratha sewers and to swains. Needless to say it didn't work at all and just seemed like a huge waste of spell slots to me. It would be useful even if it checked the casters stealth and operated at 75% of base stealth.
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 05:27 PM CDT
Top:
1) Rend - This spell is so powerful in PVP it has to be my top spot. Ripping apart multiple spells at a time from your target? Yes Please.
2) Burn - whenever I can't connect with anything else, Burn never let me down.
3) MB - I'm speaking towards the MB that is on TEST. Stacking Nerve Damage keeps it in the top 3.
4) Seer's Sense - Simply invaluable for combat.
5) Sleep/Dazzle - Both are equally important depending on your target. Sleep slightly has lead because making your target prone is just too good.
6) Contingency - Its the best defense we have from being ambushed.
7) Whole Displacement - Invaluable in some situations. What it accomplishes when you do need it, can never be undervalued.
8) Shadows/RF - I always use these in conjunction. Stealth bonus and invisibility should be important to any moon mage IMHO.
9) Invocation of the spheres - The difference this spell makes for stat vs stat contests keeps it firmly in the top 10.
10) Read the Ripples - My last in the top 10... This spell makes predictions more readily available. This is something that could arguable place it higher on the list, but is not essential because predictions are already powerful on their own.
Honorable Mention for Top 10...Cage of Light and Psychic Shield, They really do wonders when you stack them with other barriers.
Bottom:
1) Steps of Vaun - Its redundant for the moon mage casting it and doesn't help when your group can't hide on their own already.
2) Calm - This spell is just kind of lack luster. Has no real use other than being a requisite spell.
3) Tenebrous sense - Although I hate adding it to my list because I like its idea so much. I find its almost never useful and when it is, we have plenty of other sources for this effect. It should have a bonus besides seeing in the dark.
4) Unleash - This is my personal opinion....But I don't think this spell is nearly as useful as it COULD or SHOULD be. As an activator for enchanting it might be the best but using shadows or dazzle work nearly as good and are great spells on their own aside. And as a method to cast scroll spells, you are more likely to destroy a scroll you are casting with sorcery in one use than using it over a prolonged period of time. In fact even using this spell to cast Analogous patterns you are going to go through scroll after scroll. And if you are going to keep casting a spell over and over you might as well LEARN it and avoid the mechanics that waste your time and coin.
5) Moonblade,SHMO, EMMO - This is hard for me. I really like the idea behind this spell line. But when do I use them? Never. Why don't I even though I like the idea? Its just too much time to do very little. The duration isn't long enough by far, the skill required to make them useful for novices without a servant or the strength to carry more weapons is just not realistic to make using moonblades an option for them and it takes too much time and steps to use the nodes for every day use. You can't even store Targeted spells or Debilitation in the nodes, it doesn't save your attunement and in the time you can REFRESH and fill it again, you could have already killed your target several times over probably.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
1) Rend - This spell is so powerful in PVP it has to be my top spot. Ripping apart multiple spells at a time from your target? Yes Please.
2) Burn - whenever I can't connect with anything else, Burn never let me down.
3) MB - I'm speaking towards the MB that is on TEST. Stacking Nerve Damage keeps it in the top 3.
4) Seer's Sense - Simply invaluable for combat.
5) Sleep/Dazzle - Both are equally important depending on your target. Sleep slightly has lead because making your target prone is just too good.
6) Contingency - Its the best defense we have from being ambushed.
7) Whole Displacement - Invaluable in some situations. What it accomplishes when you do need it, can never be undervalued.
8) Shadows/RF - I always use these in conjunction. Stealth bonus and invisibility should be important to any moon mage IMHO.
9) Invocation of the spheres - The difference this spell makes for stat vs stat contests keeps it firmly in the top 10.
10) Read the Ripples - My last in the top 10... This spell makes predictions more readily available. This is something that could arguable place it higher on the list, but is not essential because predictions are already powerful on their own.
Honorable Mention for Top 10...Cage of Light and Psychic Shield, They really do wonders when you stack them with other barriers.
Bottom:
1) Steps of Vaun - Its redundant for the moon mage casting it and doesn't help when your group can't hide on their own already.
2) Calm - This spell is just kind of lack luster. Has no real use other than being a requisite spell.
3) Tenebrous sense - Although I hate adding it to my list because I like its idea so much. I find its almost never useful and when it is, we have plenty of other sources for this effect. It should have a bonus besides seeing in the dark.
4) Unleash - This is my personal opinion....But I don't think this spell is nearly as useful as it COULD or SHOULD be. As an activator for enchanting it might be the best but using shadows or dazzle work nearly as good and are great spells on their own aside. And as a method to cast scroll spells, you are more likely to destroy a scroll you are casting with sorcery in one use than using it over a prolonged period of time. In fact even using this spell to cast Analogous patterns you are going to go through scroll after scroll. And if you are going to keep casting a spell over and over you might as well LEARN it and avoid the mechanics that waste your time and coin.
5) Moonblade,SHMO, EMMO - This is hard for me. I really like the idea behind this spell line. But when do I use them? Never. Why don't I even though I like the idea? Its just too much time to do very little. The duration isn't long enough by far, the skill required to make them useful for novices without a servant or the strength to carry more weapons is just not realistic to make using moonblades an option for them and it takes too much time and steps to use the nodes for every day use. You can't even store Targeted spells or Debilitation in the nodes, it doesn't save your attunement and in the time you can REFRESH and fill it again, you could have already killed your target several times over probably.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 05:46 PM CDT
Also Shadow Servant and Shadowling can arguably be in the top Ten over some others. Those are two spells that I think everyone loves.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 05:49 PM CDT
>>>> Also Shadow Servant and Shadowling can arguably be in the top Ten over some others. Those are two spells that I think everyone loves.
You know, despite the fact that I ranked shadowling in my top 5, one wonders why we are all such fans of spells whose only function is to make it easier to cast other spells. On the other hand, pom is one of my favourite cleric spells as well.
You know, despite the fact that I ranked shadowling in my top 5, one wonders why we are all such fans of spells whose only function is to make it easier to cast other spells. On the other hand, pom is one of my favourite cleric spells as well.
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 06:33 PM CDT
Hmm I just found out Tenebrous Sense adds to Outdoorsmanship bonus, so I guess it is not bad enough to make my bottom list anymore. Although I think it would make ALOT more sense if it gave a bonus to hitting targets with conventional melee weaponry by adding the extra method to sense or feel their movements and position with the tactile sense gained. The description does say something about mass and not only shadows being sensed.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 06:46 PM CDT
Even if it was a meta for Tenebrous sense to gain melee offensive factor, it makes a lot of sense with the spell description.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 06:49 PM CDT
Get away from my outdoorsmanship buff!
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
DR-RAESH
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 06:53 PM CDT
Weapon buffs aren't really on the table for Moon Mages.
Use your predictions for that.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Use your predictions for that.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 07:45 PM CDT
>>Weapon buffs aren't really on the table for Moon Mages.
I was thinking more like Rutilor's Edge or Rage of the Clans. Not a weapon buff.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
I was thinking more like Rutilor's Edge or Rage of the Clans. Not a weapon buff.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 07:56 PM CDT
Well scratch Rutilor's Edge it works different than I thought. But Rage of the Clans is EXACTLY what I was speaking towards and makes great sense concept wise with Tenebrous Sense.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
DR-RAESH
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 08:03 PM CDT
Rage of the Clans and Rutilor's Edge effects are both off the table for Moon Mages.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 08:12 PM CDT
Yeah I could care less for weapons buffs, Like Raesh said, we have predictions for that. I am more worried about TM spells. Like I talked about before, that new Sorrow spell could be a godsend, and maybe some developments in the heavy TM area.
Honestly it irks me when people keep talking about tert skill bonuses. I am more worried about our offensive TM factor, which is our only offense.
Honestly it irks me when people keep talking about tert skill bonuses. I am more worried about our offensive TM factor, which is our only offense.
GABRIEL4
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 08:12 PM CDT
<<Steps of Vaun - Its redundant for the moon mage casting it and doesn't help when your group can't hide on their own already.
The reason I include SoV in my honorable mentions (it really does just miss out on being in my top 5 by only a few spells) is because of the duration. The group mechs are indeed annoying and not worth fiddling with. The fact that it lasts forever (technically around a week before the base engine says no) is what makes it a winner in my book. In fact, before the recent change to RF where the duration increased, I always used SoV over RF because the duration of RF was just too short to bother with. I still use SoV a lot more than RF now, even with the longer duration, but RF is easier to snap cast so I do use it if I need to be in invis like right now. I also often use both in conjunction: RF snap cast to get me into invis and follow up with a fully prepped high mana SoV to start the indefinite maintenance.
The reason I include SoV in my honorable mentions (it really does just miss out on being in my top 5 by only a few spells) is because of the duration. The group mechs are indeed annoying and not worth fiddling with. The fact that it lasts forever (technically around a week before the base engine says no) is what makes it a winner in my book. In fact, before the recent change to RF where the duration increased, I always used SoV over RF because the duration of RF was just too short to bother with. I still use SoV a lot more than RF now, even with the longer duration, but RF is easier to snap cast so I do use it if I need to be in invis like right now. I also often use both in conjunction: RF snap cast to get me into invis and follow up with a fully prepped high mana SoV to start the indefinite maintenance.
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 08:34 PM CDT
Are you saying that you would rather have two of the same spell with one having cyclic mechanics and one having a set duration? That would be a waste in spell slots to have both right? But its what we have.... And since you can't have SOV without RF, you are essentially wasting your slots. IMHO the Cyclic function of SOV is less appealing also, regardless of it lasting forever. You can already run from one end of the mainland to the other, or across any island with one cast of RF that isn't draining pulses from your attunement.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
ILLIENA
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 08:41 PM CDT
Top:
TP/MG/RS The general translocational suite. I love being able to zip around and move people around, and I snap teleports constantly for a free trip to the nearest shard.
SLS Yes, please to be killing things for me.
TS I know that it doesn't get a lot of love, but I mine. Outdoorsmanship is the primary skill for this, and some mines are dark, making TS the perfect mining spell.
SEER Simple evasion buff. I don't use the other aspect of it, which is unfortunate from a flavor perspective, but oh well.
Shadowling I love having an animated shadow that helps my attunement. I never leave one uninvoked.
Bottom:
Teleologic Sorcery There are a few parts to this. First, you've got TF and TV, which can be used to work around limitations of the prediction system. But by inflicting corruption, they impose their own drawback, meaning they're best used by a prognosticator who only dips their toe into sorcery and keeps their corruption low. I'd be happy to get into teleologic sorcery if there were effects that interest me, but none of this moderation stuff. If I got into it, I'd be corrupted to the gills. So these aren't useful for me. Also, TV's appeal as a source of prediction pools has been eclipsed by RTR.
ST and SOD are very weird anti-player spells, which I don't find to be particularly useful. In no small part because I don't engage in much PvP.
That leaves TV's critter debuff as the only teleologic effect that interests me. But MM's have loads of debilitation spells. What's the point of inflicting an unpredictable debuff instead of reliably Mental Blasting something into the floor?
Hypno Clunky and difficult to use, as discussed by others.
TP/MG/RS The general translocational suite. I love being able to zip around and move people around, and I snap teleports constantly for a free trip to the nearest shard.
SLS Yes, please to be killing things for me.
TS I know that it doesn't get a lot of love, but I mine. Outdoorsmanship is the primary skill for this, and some mines are dark, making TS the perfect mining spell.
SEER Simple evasion buff. I don't use the other aspect of it, which is unfortunate from a flavor perspective, but oh well.
Shadowling I love having an animated shadow that helps my attunement. I never leave one uninvoked.
Bottom:
Teleologic Sorcery There are a few parts to this. First, you've got TF and TV, which can be used to work around limitations of the prediction system. But by inflicting corruption, they impose their own drawback, meaning they're best used by a prognosticator who only dips their toe into sorcery and keeps their corruption low. I'd be happy to get into teleologic sorcery if there were effects that interest me, but none of this moderation stuff. If I got into it, I'd be corrupted to the gills. So these aren't useful for me. Also, TV's appeal as a source of prediction pools has been eclipsed by RTR.
ST and SOD are very weird anti-player spells, which I don't find to be particularly useful. In no small part because I don't engage in much PvP.
That leaves TV's critter debuff as the only teleologic effect that interests me. But MM's have loads of debilitation spells. What's the point of inflicting an unpredictable debuff instead of reliably Mental Blasting something into the floor?
Hypno Clunky and difficult to use, as discussed by others.
GABRIEL4
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 08:45 PM CDT
I'm saying that they're not entirely redundant and that I prefer SoV to RF, but don't mind having both because RF can be snap cast and take effect immediately. I use RF as a way to get back into invisibility instantly if I don't want to wait for the SoV pulse when I do an action that pulls me out of invis. I wouldn't be able to do that if they were a single spell.
<<You can already run from one end of the mainland to the other, or across any island with one cast of RF
I often have SoV running for hours at a time. Old RF duration was too much of a pain to use for this purpose. New RF duration is better for it, but still requires me to maintain it more actively. SoV just is. I adore the convenience of it.
<<that isn't draining pulses from your attunement.
The attunement drain is negligible even when capped. I think SoV is the least attunement draining cyclic spell out there with the probable exception of Caress of the Sun.
<<You can already run from one end of the mainland to the other, or across any island with one cast of RF
I often have SoV running for hours at a time. Old RF duration was too much of a pain to use for this purpose. New RF duration is better for it, but still requires me to maintain it more actively. SoV just is. I adore the convenience of it.
<<that isn't draining pulses from your attunement.
The attunement drain is negligible even when capped. I think SoV is the least attunement draining cyclic spell out there with the probable exception of Caress of the Sun.
AERATHOR
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 08:45 PM CDT
>>Honestly it irks me when people keep talking about tert skill bonuses. I am more worried about our offensive TM factor, which is our only offense.
I'd ask for the tactile senses the spell gives the caster to aid in TM offensive factor but it would be shot down too. Within minutes mind you, rather than after a day or two was given to find out what the community of players feels about an idea.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
I'd ask for the tactile senses the spell gives the caster to aid in TM offensive factor but it would be shot down too. Within minutes mind you, rather than after a day or two was given to find out what the community of players feels about an idea.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
GABRIEL4
ELWYNN
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 09:36 PM CDT
Top:
1. Starlight Sphere: it lets me time a mental blast with an offensive attack. if this doesn't work, i know i need to get creative fast, die, or run away.
2. Read the Ripples: because it means that making a capped tool is possible.
3. Riftal Summons: because it lets me bring my friends to me. i use this much more often than moongate now.
4. Telekinetic Storm: easy mode when training targeted magic.
5. Whole Displacement: because fighting a barbarian at melee range is asking to be decapitated. it is also an easy way to get yourself out of trouble in PvE.
Bottom:
1. Shear: because it is tough to get real use out of the spell. crippling my ability to cast spells doesn't really help when i am a spellcaster. it's not like i can rely on my weapons.
2. Shear: the spell is so bad that it really deserves to be mentioned twice.
3. mental blast: i include it mainly because it's not nearly as good as what people think. i am basing this mainly off how well i see it work against the people i have pvp'd who are well above 150th circle. with that said, when mental blast works, it is an extraordinary spell.
4. Teleologic Sorcery: i include this, but i know you all are working to make it more appealing.
5. hypnotism: i do not think that i have used this spell in over a decade.
1. Starlight Sphere: it lets me time a mental blast with an offensive attack. if this doesn't work, i know i need to get creative fast, die, or run away.
2. Read the Ripples: because it means that making a capped tool is possible.
3. Riftal Summons: because it lets me bring my friends to me. i use this much more often than moongate now.
4. Telekinetic Storm: easy mode when training targeted magic.
5. Whole Displacement: because fighting a barbarian at melee range is asking to be decapitated. it is also an easy way to get yourself out of trouble in PvE.
Bottom:
1. Shear: because it is tough to get real use out of the spell. crippling my ability to cast spells doesn't really help when i am a spellcaster. it's not like i can rely on my weapons.
2. Shear: the spell is so bad that it really deserves to be mentioned twice.
3. mental blast: i include it mainly because it's not nearly as good as what people think. i am basing this mainly off how well i see it work against the people i have pvp'd who are well above 150th circle. with that said, when mental blast works, it is an extraordinary spell.
4. Teleologic Sorcery: i include this, but i know you all are working to make it more appealing.
5. hypnotism: i do not think that i have used this spell in over a decade.
PRIMEQ
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 10:43 PM CDT
>>Weapon buffs aren't really on the table for Moon Mages.
What about for the poor Traders, whose offenses are all tert and have no predictions?
- Navesi
What about for the poor Traders, whose offenses are all tert and have no predictions?
- Navesi
GABRIEL4
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 10:47 PM CDT
Highlight Flaws will be a damage booster that is applied to your target and will affect hits with both weapons and spells. It appears to be a copy of Heighten Pain.
Not quite what you're getting at, but there's also Fortify which will increase the durability of weapons in addition to armor and crafting tools. Obviously in the case of weapons that's not a particularly useful effect though.
Not quite what you're getting at, but there's also Fortify which will increase the durability of weapons in addition to armor and crafting tools. Obviously in the case of weapons that's not a particularly useful effect though.
PRIMEQ
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 11:33 PM CDT
>>Highlight Flaws will be a damage booster that is applied to your target and will affect hits with both weapons and spells.
Sounds like you actually have to be able to hit the foe for that to work though? What they really need is help hitting to begin with.
- Navesi
Sounds like you actually have to be able to hit the foe for that to work though? What they really need is help hitting to begin with.
- Navesi
GABRIEL4
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/07/2016 11:43 PM CDT
Well they do have a couple debilitation abilities like Caltrops (single target prone) and Illusions of Grandeur (single target immobilize) that will help with that a bit. It does appear that they'll be much more defensively oriented as far as combat goes, though, much like a weaker and more magically inclined version of a Paladin.
DR-RAESH
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/08/2016 12:24 AM CDT
>>I'd ask for the tactile senses the spell gives the caster to aid in TM offensive factor but it would be shot down too.
It would be, but not because I'm opposed to Moon Mages having a TM buff, but because I feel it's a flavor mismatch with TS.
>>Within minutes mind you, rather than after a day or two was given to find out what the community of players feels about an idea.
This isn't a matter of what the community feels. It's a matter of what is and isn't within the scope of the Moon Mage Guild.
I'll also note that when you take a tone like that you're far less likely to find a receptive audience.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
It would be, but not because I'm opposed to Moon Mages having a TM buff, but because I feel it's a flavor mismatch with TS.
>>Within minutes mind you, rather than after a day or two was given to find out what the community of players feels about an idea.
This isn't a matter of what the community feels. It's a matter of what is and isn't within the scope of the Moon Mage Guild.
I'll also note that when you take a tone like that you're far less likely to find a receptive audience.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ELWYNN
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/08/2016 02:24 AM CDT
>>All in all, I think Moon Mage spells are the best in the game for how I like to play despite some of the stinkers.
I would like to second this notion. Moon mages are still the most fun guild to play by far.
ELWYNN
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/08/2016 02:33 AM CDT
one last note. while i like combat buffs and targeted magic buffs as much as the next guy. i think the prediction system is better than spells. we can use rend and tear down buffs. but the only people who can get rid of our predictions are moon mages who turned to the dark side. and me personally, i find it hard to be motivated to fight another moon mage, no matter how much they err. my concern is beating up those evil barbarians.
CHIEFCRAZYCHICKEN
Re: Top and Bottom Spells?
04/12/2016 08:46 AM CDT
I note that nobody has mentioned partial displacement. I just wanted to give a mention to this one as the messaging on it makes it my standard TM spell.
It's horrifying, it's delightful, it's fun.
It's horrifying, it's delightful, it's fun.
