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Mirror Wraith 01/23/2005 10:19 AM CST
Is it possible we could get a little more information on this spell? When I saw it on the big list of things to do I was thinking it was some kind of summonable monster to throw at the critters. From what was said at the meeting I'm thinking it will be some sort of way to travel with SHM which would be cool.
>>Nothing much has changed except that we're considering adding a few features or fleshing out existing one's such as ability to travel long distances using the Shadewatch Mirror spell as well as the Ways.

Does anyone have any notes on this, or could one of our GMs be persuaded to leak a little information on what they are cooking up? If Only because I'm curious what things haven't changed from. Thanks.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/23/2005 04:58 PM CST
>>Is it possible we could get a little more information on this spell?

Mirror Wraith is a form of astral projection. Your psyche is seperated from the meat and gets to go zooming off on its own for a little bit.

-Armifer
"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." H.P. Lovecraft
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/23/2005 08:48 PM CST
Thanks, that sounds interesting. Will it go on preview before it comes out?
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/23/2005 10:26 PM CST
really wish the gm's would give more detail on the spell

how the heck does it work? do you just walk around looking like a wraith or what
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/23/2005 10:31 PM CST
Yeah, you become "a Mirror Wraith". I think Rigby posted a short log of it long time ago, but I lost it. Anyone still have it?

~Aeth
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/23/2005 11:24 PM CST
As far as this spell goes, the only real benefit I see is travel through shadewatch mirror... would be like super shift with teleport. I mean, I can run around in RF with area effects being the only thing capable of hurting me. That and the concept is pretty dang sweet.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/24/2005 02:58 AM CST
The concept is very sweet, but the problem is that I have yet to actually hear anything that'd convince me the spell is worth having. I'm not even saying that I wouldn't find a use for it... I'm saying I don't see one for anyone, period, aside from the possible RP value of... being... a wraith? <shrug>

Most spells, worthwhile or not, at least suggest their usefulness. The merits of, say.. the Hypnotize spell, for instance, are debatable. You can argue it up and down based on personal styles. But it's undeniable that yes, you can use it to stop attacks, period. With Mirror Wraith... I can't think of a reason to consider getting it.

No objection presently (since I think Aura Sight nearly falls into this category, though I've heard some stuff regarding it like PP boosting, debatable merit..), but if any extra information is available, I'd like to hear it.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/24/2005 10:16 AM CST
Assuming you can move around, wouldn't it be useful to go from room to room without being hurt by people? Spying? Or maybe you will be invisible or can be invisible and you can go places without others seeing you... like shadewatch mirror but unbreakable? I dunno, sounds like a nice spell, though.




Of TF,
Lord Bard Tantric
Psychic Ralph
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/26/2005 01:08 PM CST
Well, it'd be good for recon, sure, but that's a big sacrifice.

Why? Personal assumptions follow:

A wraith is non-corporeal. That's why they can't be hurt. That means you can't attack or cast magic while in wraithform. So you can recon/spy or whatnot, but you're only good for providing intel. You're useless when it comes to action. You also can't pick things up, focus your magical senses...

My assumption is that you're effectively crippled beyond anything past speech and movement and a handful of emotes. Now, if I can leave my body behind and go hunting... Or possess a creature... That's a totally different story.

I'd get Mirror Wraith if it meant I could possess a creature. =P

<<A scout ogre says, "No! Don't hit me anymore! I surrender!"
<<A scout ogre whimpers.
<<A scout ogre kneels down.
<<A scout ogre fire a bolt at you.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/26/2005 01:27 PM CST
That could be a bit abused:
Possess a warklin and walk into the crossing, then release your possession.

(Hey thats not a bad idea...)

Of course i'd just get a kick out of posessing a goblin, then make it go try to join a guild.


--Player of Malveras & Mozu
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/26/2005 06:01 PM CST
Maybe have possesed creatures teleport back to the room of posseison as soon as it wears off. Possesion would be such a fun feature.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/26/2005 10:31 PM CST
Go over and possess a rabid horde of pale grey death squirrels and wreak havoc on Crossing!


-- Toldorf
>choose remote shadow bunny spell
"I know of no such magic, at least not upon this path," says Lomtaun.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/26/2005 11:41 PM CST
>>That could be a bit abused

A bit? =P I pointedly demonstrated possessing a scout ogre and shooting another player. No, if they even considered this, I'd argue against it. I'm just still seeing no real application for MW. <shrug>

There are other Stellar Magic that ought to be considered, perhaps. Or new ones to be suggested...
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/27/2005 12:06 AM CST
After reading all the MW talk, I still don't see what the big deal is or why someone would want the spell. What am I missing?

-Nitish
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/27/2005 08:09 AM CST
It's not just the spell, it's that some of us have been saving a slot for this spell since it was first hinted at. I'll get it as soon as it's released, in dedication to those who have gone before seeing it live.

<pours one out on the sidewalk>

`
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/27/2005 02:12 PM CST
Maybe if we all speculate enough we'll get rewarded with some more info...
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/27/2005 02:31 PM CST
I think it should require a horrible sacrifice on the part of the mage to learn this spell. Embark on a quest out of nightmares and pay some twisted, gruesome cost in order to learn the secrets. Ideally it would leave the mage scarred for life and possibly missing parts of their anatomy. Something along the lines of giving Kssarh a sponge-bath or hosting a Y'shai tea party.

Seriously though, it'd be pretty lame to have every Wesley Wandhead and Susie Spellbook prancing around in wraith form. I'd like to see it be something rare, something mystical, something... spooky. Granted we know very little about the workings of the spell, but it seems it would lose some of its flair if it came into wide circulation. But I feel that way about a lot of things.

`
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/27/2005 02:34 PM CST
from what i can figure THE SPELL IS LITTLE MORE THEN A CANTRIP

just what exactly is it about the spell that justifys a slot?

wot does it do GM's?
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/27/2005 03:40 PM CST
I'm willing to go along with the "enigmatic spell of untold power that very few people have"... but um, it needs the untold power thing first. =)

Effectively speaking, it's probably far more than a cantrip. But as far as usefulness (this IS a game, you know), it's minimal at best.

People talk about being able to spy better. I have Refractive Field for that. Yes, there's a held mana cost, meaning I can't cast any spells. Yes, I shimmer in daytime. But 1) I don't want a(nother) better scry/spy spell and 2) how exactly does being a Wraith make it any better? Stellar Magic is known for being castable only at nighttime, which negates the latter advantage over RF, and I think mages in wraithform should be limited in their spell options, minimizing the former advantage.

In other words, unless more is in the offering, I don't want that spell in my book. Selfishly speaking, I'd prefer it if the GMs worked on something I'd want to have... so that's what I'd vote for instead. Unless someone wants to say that MW can be guaranteed to be useful outside of scry/spy?

-- Rekletiva.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 01:19 PM CST
Would be nice if somehow it could be cast after-death ... to leave your body and go search for help for it. Maybe you cast while alive and then it takes effect post-mortom?

Maybe it could be cast when the body is otherwise trapped, and as a wraith you can attempt to guard the physical body. Webbed, unconcious (sp?), paralyzed, stoned ... all come to mind.

Just thinking of something interesting for it.

~Pacnytu
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 01:23 PM CST
>>Would be nice if somehow it could be cast after-death ... to leave your body and go search for help for it.

Uh huh.

~Aeth
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 01:34 PM CST
<<Uh huh.>>

Hmm .. such a cryptic response. Is not a wraith undead?

Another thought would be a wraith as an out-of-body Ways walker. As a wraith someone could "wander" the ways, and if they wandered too much, rather than risk the ultimate frog-in-a-blender death, they would simply be lauched back to their physical body with a lengthy stun.

~Pacnytu
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 01:48 PM CST
Meh. Don't start. Clerics are looking for anything to complain about regarding Moon Mages. Mirror Wraiths are shadow creatures like Shadow Masters, not the undead type of wraith. The spell doesn't separate your spirit either, it creates a manifestation of your psyche. That was the old IC description I believe. The spell really is mainly a solid RP/niche spell. Beyond that the only use I can see for it is in recon, if the manifestation isn't visible, and to allow you to view places you couldn't with Shadewatch Mirror such as indoors or at clairvoyant wards. I hope there isn't any visible form of the wraith in the room. As you wouldn't be able to attack anyone while in the form, there is no balance issue with that. Though a Moon Mage PP ability to sense people in wraith form in your room would be a nice addition to the spell.

______________________________________
Talian slashes the really ugly pathian statue to dust.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 02:09 PM CST
>I hope there isn't any visible form of the wraith in the room.

I agree, not automatically anyway, but it would be awesome if there were a bunch of verbs that functioned differently while in wraith form that could let you make your presence known, similar to how some verbs work if you're hiding or invisible. Have creepy and macabre effects, like blowing a chill breath on the back of someone's neck, or giving them a feeling of being watched by something not of this world. Whisper would be a good one to modify as well, assuming communication is possible, maybe wraiths couldn't talk out loud, but could whisper to people.

'eat', of course, would let you consume someone's soul, adding their skill ranks to yours, and killing them instantly.

`
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 02:49 PM CST
Some ideas on what to do while in wraith form (other than recite bad poetry):

If Tezirah could cast wraith and travel to the plane of abiding, perhaps the reverse is true. Cast wraith to travel to the shadow plane and talk with her or fight shadow critters.

Cast wraith to travel to Su Helmas.

Might be able to cast some spells while in the form. Since casting is mental. This might use up concentration and reduce your time in form.

Contingency to someone's wraith if you've cast seer's sense on them?

Might be able to carry some lunar type things, like shards, while in wraith form.

Player of Cloudcrest
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 04:14 PM CST
Perhaps some sort of skimming/travelling (MOVE [TARGET CHARACTER]) plus the ability to set a moonbeam while in wraith form might be of use.

Player of too many... I don't know who I am today!
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 04:20 PM CST
Mirror Wraiths are not undead.

Your chances of casting it while dead are the same as casting any other spell while dead. We're not that sort of caster.

>>Another thought would be a wraith as an out-of-body Ways walker.

That's a good bet.

>>'eat', of course, would let you consume someone's soul, adding their skill ranks to yours, and killing them instantly.

I like it!

>>Might be able to cast some spells while in the form. Since casting is mental. This might use up concentration and reduce your time in form.

Interesting idea.

-Armifer
"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." H.P. Lovecraft
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/28/2005 07:06 PM CST
<<Might be able to cast some spells while in the form. Since casting is mental. This might use up concentration and reduce your time in form.>>

We talked about Seer Sense from afar at the meeting. Your suggestion certainly reminded me of the brief discussion. That ability would make Mirror Wraith a lot more desirable to me, and at the same time I really don't need another spell on the wish list!

Malzard
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Re: Mirror Wraith 01/30/2005 08:14 AM CST
Here's another idea that would give value to Mirror Wraith, Moonblade, and Steelstar.

When using Mirror Wraith to travel in the ways, lunar weapons can be used to alter the energy flows. Moonblade could be used to split/divert the flows. Steelstar to plug the tunnel behind you and delay its collapse (giving you more time to travel). Using these weapons in this way is not based on weapon skills, but magic skills, such as power perception and harnessing.

If astral/shadow/grazhir critters end up encountering the wraith with hostile intent, the weapons could be used in attack or defense. Weapon/parry skills might help out in this case, but there still should be a control component using magical skills.

Player of Cloudcrest
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Pre-reqs for Mirror Wraith 03/04/2005 08:23 PM CST
If Armifer or Tribanin could tell us what the spell requirements if any are for Mirror Wraith? You mentioned Shadewatch Mirror with the spell at the guild meeting. Is that a req?

My two spell slots are getting VERY antsy!

-Ghodbane
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Mirror Wraith 05/06/2005 11:41 AM CDT
Are there any clear details on what this spell will actually do? Only application I know was to deliver the prophecy and those results can be achieved with thoughtcast and shadewatch, not quite as dramatically though.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/06/2005 04:14 PM CDT
>Are there any clear details on what this spell will actually do? Only application I know was to deliver the prophecy and those results can be achieved with thoughtcast and shadewatch, not quite as dramatically though.

Get this...

-looks around-

...No one knows! Isn't it great?!!?!


-Nitish

"You cut my foot off!"

"I apologize; I meant to cut off your head."
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/06/2005 04:27 PM CDT
I'm hoping it involves something similar to a familiar that we can cast spells through and instantly travel to locates. Who knows though, it'll be interesting to see what this turns out to be because it definetly has a lot of potential.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/06/2005 04:54 PM CDT
>I'm hoping it involves something similar to a familiar that we can cast spells through and instantly travel to locates. Who knows though, it'll be interesting to see what this turns out to be because it definetly has a lot of potential.

I seriously doubt that Mirror Wraith will accomplish any of that.

-Nitish

"You cut my foot off!"

"I apologize; I meant to cut off your head."
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/07/2005 01:01 AM CDT
I know, I know, it's just too useful to be a reality, but when I think Mirror Wraith I think Astral Plane, or in DR terms, The Void. And since the Void isn't bounded by any real time/space laws I would hope the wraith would use the same rules and be able to travel to any point in the realms given a suitable anchor; locate, beacon, shadewatch or other. And for those who want to dispute my claims about the Void not being bound by the rules of time and space, Tezirah was banished to the Void how long ago and she's still alive and well and trying to get free?
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/09/2005 12:01 AM CDT
Only thing I can give you about Mirror Wraith is this, don't care what it does I just want to be able to do this.

Rigby raises his arms skyward, chanting!

Rigby gestures. He collapses in a heap as a wave of light and shadow melts around him.

A dark shadow rises above Rigby, blanketing him completely in its embrace. From this ebony form, a raspy cry calls out, and then darkness slowly coalsces into the shape of a shuddering Mirror Wraith.

Rigby's unconscious form withers somewhat.

A shuddering Mirror Wraith raspily says, "Boo."

A shuddering Mirror Wraith grasps your face with an outstretched claw and pauses.

Rigby's unconscious form withers somewhat.

A shuddering Mirror Wraith drifts southeast like smoke in a breeze.


The shadows on the wall indeed ran long across the room during the late hours of the afternoon.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/09/2005 01:05 AM CDT
>Fallen's Post

So after you do that a few times and it gets old, then what?

My point is: If there's no reason or advantage to do that and you're just going to mess with nifty messaging a few times, why learn the spell?

-Nitish

"You cut my foot off!"

"I apologize; I meant to cut off your head."
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/09/2005 02:43 AM CDT
Going from the bits of information that we have so far, I'de say that Mirror Wraith is a projection travel spell. Tezirah used the spell to communicate with people on this plane while she was trapped on the Plane of Probability. GM-Talian once mentioned that the old Mirror Wraith oncept was planned around the Ways. I'de say Mirror Wraith will allow for exploration of the Ways without direct risk to the caster. It will allow for projection travel through the Ways to areas around the world. This wraith projection will be unable to physically interact with the environment, but it will also be anonymous. Using it outside of the Ways would allow for you to attend meetings and such anonymously, and it will act like a Shadewatch Mirror that one can use indoors.
A role-play centered spell.
Speculation of course.

______________________________________
Talian slashes the really ugly pathian statue to dust.
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/09/2005 12:11 PM CDT
From the January meeting:

>Tribanin says, "Mirror Wraith - while not exactly new, as we discovered, is very near completion thanks to Rigby's hard work back when he had control of the guild. Nothing much has changed except that we're considering adding a few features or fleshing out existing one's such as ability to travel long distances using the Shadewatch Mirror spell as well as the Ways. As it stands now we're playing with it in Dev to see exactly what needs to be finished, but I'm hoping this one won't take more than a month or two to reach completion."

>Tribanin says, "Oh... Shadowservants - small change is coming that will make them alterable in appearance - I just have to make a few changes to how it reads from. This will affect Wriath as well, since it works off of similar principles to tailor the appearance of your wraith form."

Traveling through mirrors sounds very useful. Especially if we can cast spells in wraith form! I still have three spell slots saved up just for this spell and any pre-reqs it might require. If we have specific wraith forms then we might not be as annonymous.

-Ghodbane
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Re: Mirror Wraith 05/09/2005 02:40 PM CDT
>Tribanin says, "Mirror Wraith - while not exactly new, as we discovered, is very near completion thanks to Rigby's hard work back when he had control of the guild. Nothing much has changed except that we're considering adding a few features or fleshing out existing one's such as ability to travel long distances using the Shadewatch Mirror spell as well as the Ways. As it stands now we're playing with it in Dev to see exactly what needs to be finished, but I'm hoping this one won't take more than a month or two to reach completion."

So you can travel to your Shadewatch Mirror via Mirror Wraith.

Few things to consider:

1. You'll probably still be in wraith form. If you're not limited to travel distance via Mirror Wraith to Mirror then it's likely that you will still be in Wraith form because it would be unbalancing otherwise.

2. If you can Mirror someone, Wraith to them and then Riftal Summons your body to you then hop back into yourself and be whole again (effectively traveling both physically and wraithly to the mirror location) who's going to use The Ways, Moongate, or Teleport anymore? I don't see something like that happening.

3. If we can cast spells while in Wraith form I seriously doubt they will be offensive spells or spells that could possibly do damage or be harmful to anyone. I could also see casting spells while in wraith form extremely difficult as there would probably be other burdens on your mind having to do with being a wraith.

Mirror Wraith sounds cool and it will probably look cool, but due to game balance I seriously doubt that it will be as useful as anyone thinks it will be. Unless your goal is to be sneaky and listen to things.

Hopefully I'm wrong because so many Moon Mages have been waiting years for the spell.

-Nitish

"You cut my foot off!"

"I apologize; I meant to cut off your head."
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