>...but moonies as weapon tert, isn't very realistic.

Why not? My Necromancer can still train stealths on critters he hunts. Something being tert doesn't mean you can't use it. I thought people were very anti the notion of becoming a glass cannon?

>>Oh, I thought it was Reflex still, It could very well have been moved to Fortitude.

Dazzle is vs. Fortitude, and has been for quite awhile.

Anytime Vahlissa casts Dazzle on me it contests my vs. Fortitude barrier but never my vs. Reflex barrier.

Also, be warned... vs. Fortitude isn't the 'easy success' people think it will be that it was in 2.0. With the change to 3.0 people have invested more into strength and stamina. Barbarians for example are actually best suited against vs. Fortitude attacks because if I want, I can activate a +20 strength and +20 stamina booster as a Barbarian (assuming I'm at the cap which I'm most likely not) on top of my anti-magic barriers (Badger + Turtle). It'd be silly for us to put all our eggs into one basket with the way IF works though, so if you guys get a vs. Reflex disabler/debuff that should help you guys out big time and allow for some good versatility.

---

Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

Aoe Weaponization of Moongate

Creates a rift in space which allows cosmic radiation to seep into the area causes internal wounds and nerve damage (think microwaving the area) maybe let shear counter the effects or lay ward or maf so you dont nuke your hunting buddy.


aoe disabler/tm

shadow web 3.0

creates a flood of "living" shadows that are only sentient enough to be aggressive towards everything in the room. grappling and squeezing/crushing
really liked the force push idea .

anyways it's late you may pick apart the ideas

It breaks any target or aim you have going when it pulses and it decays very quickly. Honestly, I don't use it at all. The biggest use I think it will have for me personally would be rescuing bodies from a boss character that had a "no retreat" mechanic against us or something. It could be used with SLS if you had the timing right, and that would buy you some time away from a melee fighter while still getting attacks in, but it decays quickly enough that I probably still wouldn't bother with the mana use. In my opinion, it's a great defensive tool for staying out of deadly situations, but it's not good if you're trying to actually strike back.

It's conceptually nice for avoiding a thief melee ambush, so that's something. Maybe it shouldn't work against hidden advancements? That's the most OP angle of use for it I can think of.

For my part, I'd love to see a skillcheck replace the current mechanics because I'd love to be able to keep a target/aim while I successfully pass the skillcheck.

I tested it in terms of pulse time vs constant advancing and posted the results some time ago. If the attacker is constantly advancing, and willing to charge here and there, it really doesn't buy you much time at all. In sum, in my opinion, it isn't what you think it is so I'd say test away.

>>If the attacker is constantly advancing, and willing to charge here and there, it really doesn't buy you much time at all.

That's assuming the attacker can just obliterate you at melee, right? If I charge and get some light/good/whiffs, it's going to buy a tremendous amount of time. From what I've seen, it looks like you have to outclass the Moon Mage for Whole Displacement to not be a big deal, because if they're at level and are able to not die in a heartbeat, are able to disable and hurt you, it's a really incredible spell that I think is too much against melee.

I just did some testing, didn't take long. Capped WD gives a 10 minute duration... that's pretty damn good IMO.

It works against stuns, works against immobilization.

>roar wail at vahliss
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Vahlissa appears to be frozen with fear!

You begin to advance on Vahlissa.
>
Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!

You begin to advance on Vahlissa.
>
Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!
>
Vahlissa growls and shakes off the fear that was holding her frozen.

Also, the decay/degradation only appears to last a certain amount of time. So when I constantly advance over and over... I may get in a charge here or there, but if we are fighting at level and the MM lands a MB or Sleep, the decay/degradation wears off.

There appears to be a timer associated with it... I'll post to show:

>advan vahliss
You begin to advance on Vahlissa.
>
Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!

You begin to advance on Vahlissa.

Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!

You begin to advance on Vahlissa.

>get daga
You get a steel dagasse from inside your dark leather backpack.
>
You close to pole weapon range on Vahlissa.
>
Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!

>jab vahliss
You aren't close enough to attack.
You begin to advance on Vahlissa.
>
You close to pole weapon range on Vahlissa.
>jab vahliss
< Driving in with naturally fluid movements, you charge a steel dagasse at Vahlissa. Vahlissa badly fails to block with a gargoyle-hide shield. The dagasse lands a strong hit to Vahlissa's back.
[You're winded, off balance with opponent in better position.]
[Roundtime 7 sec.]

>
Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!
>
You feel fully rested.
>jab vahliss
You aren't close enough to attack.
You begin to advance on Vahlissa.
>
Vahlissa gives you a gentle poke in the ribs.
>
Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!
>
>jab vahliss
You aren't close enough to attack.
You begin to advance on Vahlissa.
>
>
You notice Vahlissa attempting to conceal her spell preparations.
Vahlissa utters a few arcane words and orange flames abruptly begin to blaze between her fingertips!

>
You close to pole weapon range on Vahlissa.
>jab vahliss
< Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone, you charge a steel dagasse at Vahlissa. Vahlissa attempts to dodge, avoiding only some of the blow. The dagasse lands a solid hit to Vahlissa's abdomen.
[You're winded, off balance with opponent in better position.]
[Roundtime 7 sec.]
>
Vahlissa is engulfed in a ripple of light and shadow, and vanishes, only to reappear some distance away!
>
Vahlissa gestures at you.
An intense wave of lethargy comes over you!
Overcome by the spell, you fall peacefully into a dreamless sleep.

My conclusion is that in order for WD to not be a big deal, I have to outclass the MM by hundreds of ranks to deal enough damage at melee despite them still being able to buy plenty of time, and have to be able to resist/defend against all their spells to keep the WD decay from resetting within the 10 minute duration period. Not counting that my offensive disablers will be meaningless, not counting any physical barriers that will help them even more, not counting it's not a skillcheck, and not counting a situation in which the MM can run into another room and refresh themselves with another capped WD.

If I face an at-level MM, WD can very well be the difference between the MM losing and winning because of its sheer dominance over melee.

It's not AS BAD as it sounds because it's only melee and everyone uses ranged... but still, the target/aim breaking tradeoff is not nearly good enough for what it does, IMO. Not trying to come down hard on it, honestly.

My suggestion/fix: Disablers should keep it from working, much like how SA was changed to not work when the caster is disabled. That would bring it 10x closer to being balanced IMO. My only concern is that the decay resets after some time and disablers give diminishing returns, so if that isn't enough maybe a tiny defensive penalty when it's up. This is all IMO, btw, and I don't expect many to agree but to downplay its significance against any opponent that can't demolish you is not giving it enough credit.

---

Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

>>Moon mage defender loses access to melee weapons but has access to ranged weapons, and everything but tm spellwise. At level TM is going to be handicapped or outright nullified without aim. (Except in the case of sls.) There's not even much in the way of aoe to contend with because we've only got TKS which can be neutered by dropping something with a tiny bit of weight and MS if you fight on top of a moonbeam. Since most moon mages use tm as their ranged its a relatively small population that can fight at level without tm or melee.

I'm confused here, can you clarify this argument? The Moon Mage would lose access to melee attacks since he's being teleported away, naturally, but what else is disabled? How is his TM "handicapped?" Can you not use debilitations spells while using WD?

If I'm understanding the crux of your arguments, you seem to be saying that Moon Mages don't have much else going for them for PvP, but how does that affect the balance of WD itself? If there are problems with (to use your example) Moon Mage AOE or breadth of disabler/debilitation effects, those should be considered separately IMO.

Yeah dude, sorry Vin, but this one really isn't what you're acting like it is, in my opinion. I was the first one to raise the possible OPness of the spell back in the Test folders, but it hasn't come down that way because of the drawbacks. It doesn't look like you're trying to objectively test anything either. WD does not last anything like 10 minutes if you're advancing it as you would in a regular fight. A capped spell decays in like a minute or two if I remember right (I posted the decay times somewhere on the boards, I'll try and find them). This one is pretty easy for any MM to test; cap the spell and sit in with a critter for a bit. PCs decay it even faster because you can "re-advance" more quickly.

I really won't spend time arguing about it either though, since I don't use the spell for the reasons explained before. It's a good purely-defensive spell for a very limited amount of time, but it severely limits attack options. That's not a niche that's useful to me personally, much less OP.

>>Yeah dude, sorry Vin, but this one really isn't what you're acting like it is, in my opinion.

Alright, I disagree but I suppose that's how it's going to be. I'll leave it alone since it received its fair share of QQ already. :)

---

Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

>>There is spells that turn off magic completely and make ranged impossible

FWIW, I don't like the way HULP sounds but not only do I have no how it works, there's no easy way for me to even see how it works.

---

Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

>> You cant target tm while WD is up, it breaks targeting. You cant aim ranged weapons while WD is up, it breaks AIM. You cant melee while WD is up, you (duh) arent at melee. Anything you dont understand about that? K.

Is that what WD is supposed to be doing? I'm curious here because not too long ago I watched Nefidyne shoot rocket-powered arrows to hit his mark an entire island away. The arrow didn't explode, but uh, his target did.

It's so easy to confusing intention with result in the 3.0 world. Can we get some clarification on this?

---

IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

>> Gort, maybe you're confusing what he said since I know you know Nef is a ranger. WD breaks the MM's ability to aim and target. Everytime it pulses on the MM, any aim or target the MM has going is reset. It does nothing at all to stop the attacker from aiming/targeting the MM.

I think you misunderstood my question. I was asking if WD is supposed to break the aim/target of the caster.

I used Nef as an example because shooting arrows across continents was a side-effect of some bug in aiming and therefore not intended to occur.

So my question was, is WD supposed to break the aim/target of the caster? Or is this a bug in the engagement system?

---

IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

>>if you can flag a GM down just have them watch you do a few predictions as you normally would

>Will do.

Did you ever follow up with this and determine a resolution? I've returned to the game after seeing that 3.0 was released to see all the changes, and on my MM I'm also noticing that every prediction I've made results with a translucent power level.

I can only really speak my 2 cents but for the most part most my full pool predictions go positive, not always, but consistent enough that I can't complain about curse rates. Take that with a grain of salt though since I curse myself more than I pay attention and some of those curses get flipped into a positive one.

Before, however, dear god full pool predictions off of all 5 pools usually gave me 3-4 curses.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga

The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.

>> Before, however, dear god full pool predictions off of all 5 pools usually gave me 3-4 curses.

I had pretty good rates when using bones because of the "turn bad to good" predictions function.

Whats up with tenebrous sense? This is OP as all get out! You mean to tell me you can see in the dark AND buff your foraging! O M G it might be ignoring global caps! Foraging at nighttime? OP HAX! NERF!

I saw a moon mage using this spell AND Divine Radiance. She must be breaking the caps. She foraged up copperwood. At night!

"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.

This might be a stupid given, but the power of your prediction is based on the base ranks of the skill you're predicting. I've never been over flickering on a skill under 100 ranks with 1000 Astro and a full pool.

>>This might be a stupid given, but the power of your prediction is based on the base ranks of the skill you're predicting. I've never been over flickering on a skill under 100 ranks with 1000 Astro and a full pool.

Predictions, just as in 2.0, are soft capped so if you are predicting on relatively low rank skills you're going to get relatively weak predictions. Also 177 astro is not a lot of astro, and it plays a larger role that it did in the old system as well.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

Poorly phrased on my part, sorry. Good clarifications.