Posting because I care, not trying to be too negative, and will offer constructive thoughts where applicable.

Feels like there are less and less actual Moon Mages playing. Miskton and Mistanna do a good job keeping the player events going and Skaen is great as the "moonie guru." (haha) But there isn't a lot of hopeful optimistic talk about the future development of the guild.



Spells:
It was a little demoralizing seeing what felt like all the Moon Mage spells in development shunted off to "Trader Magic." Is there anything left planned for Moon Mage spells?

Would love to see the return of Shadow Web.

And any rethinking of Shear, which is so painfully irritating to use right now, maybe something similar to the various distances of Worm's Mist

Moon Mage TM is pretty lackluster. Everyone is clamoring to have SLS in the daytime because the only other thing to train TM with is TKS and it's terrible for PVP.

Spells like Tenebrous Sense, Artificer's Eye, Calm/Hypnotize, Piercing Gaze do not seem really worthwhile. Buffs to locksmithing/outdoorsmanship are not compelling. Piercing Gaze as a TM boost would be fantastic.

Can't really justify 2 spell slots for Artificer's Eye that buffs Enchanting!/Arcana. Reading the thread on Enchanting, that doesn't seem like a short-term, near-future release.



Abilities:
Predict weather - this seems silly.

Backtrace - so niche and feels not up-to-date- would be great if it could tell you where a Shadewatch Mirror was originating or where a Warrior Mage's familiar came from.

Enchanting toys - creating items that replicate our spells in limited capacity is really only useful for non Moon Mages. It's Jump Jewelry for our other spells. Anybody can Teleport based off the moons with magic "Jump Jewelry," why is there not Empath healing items or Cleric self-resurrection items duplicating those guild abilities?

Predicting: The Tokka deck never fails to remind me that it isn't ready for the 3.0 conversion. Any updates on predicting? Also Teleologic Sorcery corruption completely shreds prediction times to the point where a full pool prediction lasts maybe a minute. Maybe that is intentional?

Astral Plane: the premier Moon Mage ability - but totally balanced by the random chance of dying every time you use it. Sorta feels like the guild has been resting its hat on this ability for years though.

<<Posting because I care, not trying to be too negative, and will offer constructive thoughts where applicable.

I do so with the same care. My intention is to either give some advice or ask probing questions as to what you would really like to see. Please feel free to disagree about the advice though.

<<Spells:
<<It was a little demoralizing seeing what felt like all the Moon Mage spells in development shunted off to "Trader Magic." Is there anything left planned for Moon Mage spells?

I feel demoralizing is a pretty strong word here.

I try not to get too worked up about planned releases until they really start to get written (i.e. if you start to see it in Test, throw all the feedback you can). Most of the planning is just that, planning and brainstorming.

Being one of the next big things, I feel trader magic still is not even in clay-form yet (which is still highly mold-able), it's written on piece of paper somewhere on the desk. Using some former many moon mage ideas in trader magic to help might help create some thematic alignments between these two dissimilar-on-the-surface guilds. In the end, I think we'll see moon mages getting some love because of this as the lore and abilities between the two are more concretely put into place.

<<Would love to see the return of Shadow Web.

I think many would too. How do you foresee it working in the new environment of DR 3.1? What skill/stats would it contest? Cyclic spell seems obvious to me, but what other archetypes could make this spell useful and viable?

<<Moon Mage TM is pretty lackluster. Everyone is clamoring to have SLS in the daytime because the only other thing to train TM with is TKS and it's terrible for PVP.

There's multiple needs when it comes to TM, and I think it's important to distinguish them carefully.
PvE: Do people feel they can train TM effectively?
PvP: Can people murder other people's faces effectively?

From this response, it sounds like yes to PvE and no to PvP. Is that correct? So moon mages are lacking a less restrictive TM spell to PvP with? Could crystal spike fill this?

<<Spells like Tenebrous Sense, Artificer's Eye, Calm/Hypnotize, Piercing Gaze do not seem really worthwhile. Buffs to locksmithing/outdoorsmanship are not compelling. Piercing Gaze as a TM boost would be fantastic.

Would people prefer these spells be rewritten or new spells be made with new effects? It's tough to do both at the same time, and there's difference. By rewriting a spell, you're saying that it's completely broken and no one would ever want to pick it up. Keeping it though and moving on to other spells acknowledges that someone might take those other spells, even if they aren't the most effect/OP. It fulfills a player niche.

So if you had to choose, where would you like to see emphasis placed on development?

Nikpack

>>it's written on piece of paper somewhere on the desk.

It's a google doc actually.

>>I think we'll see moon mages getting some love because of this as the lore

I would definitely expect this. I excited about some of the lore surrounding it.

>>So if you had to choose, where would you like to see emphasis placed on development?

This is extremely true.

The bulk of work on magic at this point is done by Armifer, Ricinus or me. Two of those people are on the SGM team (Code for: they have lots of duties that don't include "write spells") and the other (me) is notorious for having a laughably long to do list. I remain the Moon Mage Advocate and they have a special place in my heart and plans, but I also need to concern myself with game wide system balance and working on guilds even further behind in development.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

>>So, more flavor text...

In a sense, but: http://dustin.wikidot.com/player-types

My player type is storyteller! Flavor text is why I play RPGs.

~Kashik

Oh! Keep in mind - Trader magic will also directly benefit Moon Mages because it will give them quite a few more non-sorcery scroll options which is a luxury they currently lack.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

>Tenebrous Sense, Artificer's Eye, Calm/Hypnotize, Piercing Gaze do not seem really worthwhile. Buffs to locksmithing/outdoorsmanship are not compelling. Piercing Gaze as a TM boost would be fantastic.

I'd like to see a QoL improvement to Piercing Gaze making it castable on others. Not for the locksmithing buff so much but for the cloud cover piercing effect for moon mages who haven't learned PG yet. Astrology is a struggle at low ranks and Elanthian weather is sadistically punishing to the moon mage without PG. For what it's worth Substratum is pretty easy for moon mages to cast sorcerously.

I'd also like to see Mind Shout disconnected from a moonbeam and simply be a 'mind' 'shout' not a 'moonlight' 'shout'. It's a psychic projection spell not moonlight manipulation. This should be an AOE debilitation spell we can cast wherever we are without a moon or focused moonbeam. I don't need or want a moonbeam focused on my position, I want it elsewhere. Rename this spell Harass Groups of People Remotely and it's more apt.

It is a little demoralizing that magic secondary bards have far superior debilitation and tm spells.

>From this response, it sounds like yes to PvE and no to PvP. Is that correct? So moon mages are lacking a less restrictive TM spell to PvP with? Could crystal spike fill this?

TKS has a number of issues. One major one for me is random creatures being inexplicably immune to it (forest geni are an example of this iirc). It can potentially destroy your loot, requires ammo and it works better for knocking out the vitality wall of multiple creatures or finishing off the walking dead ones rather than mowing down swarms like a good AOE TM spell should. You can kill with it but it takes serious mana and time to do so.

Crystal Spike will probably be an option for both PVE tm training/slaying and PVP combat but that spell hasn't been re-released yet and it isn't AOE. (so it would be a replacement for SLS but not TKS)

>So if you had to choose, where would you like to see emphasis placed on development?

Rewritten.

Calm, hypnotize - rewritten as a single spell. Those two spells have got to be in the running for the least cast generally useless spells in the entire list once you gain ANY other debilitation spell.

TS should be split into a zero slot spell for infravision with a shadows/aus prereq and a separate single slot outdoorsmanship buff spell. If underground/interior rooms without light sources were actually coded dark it would give us all a reason to cast infravision/light source magic or use a cool enchantment like mirkik sokis or light torches or lamps but that's a different can of worms.

Artificer's Eye I just think of it as the spell equivalent of an extra crafting technique. I'd sort of like to see only a pre-req of CV but then you'd have people mistakenly choosing it over PG. It would be far superior as a single slot enchanting buff though. Either you don't have the skill to put enough power into the spell to make a difference, or you're skilled enough to and have zero reason for an arcana boost. The arcana boost has a microscopic niche where cast on the high end you can take an unskilled mage's arcana skill up into the next level of itty bitty cambrinth use. 1 slot enchanting buff would definitely be useful for enchanters, 2 slot enchanting/arcana not so much.

I do have full faith and trust in Raesh, Ricinus and Armifer's work though.

PS. I'm totally good with Traders getting stellar magic. Excited even. Unless Starcrash can be cast day and night, looks cooler and kills faster than SLS. Then I'll be lobbying for Trader signature abilities (selling tied gem pouch widgets) in the simucoin store after I cry a river.

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I guess I was looking for a general update on the guild development, spells, etc. And maybe some discussion from the people playing Moon Mages.

Searching through GM announcements I hadn't seen a real "state of the guild" type post since January 2013 http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Moon%20Mages/Game%20Master%20and%20Official%20Announcements/view/362

There have been a great number of "quality of life" fixes, and they are fantastic don't get me wrong, but some of those "missing spells" are still missing and new spells were stated as "low priority" back in 2013.

...

Agree with Calm/Hypnotize as one spell. Still needs some kind of boost to make it useful since the Hypnotize doesn't affect players. Which it should, like that Empath spell Compel.
Tenebrous Sense - stat boost (reflex/agility) would be nice as it improves "tactile senses" in the spell description.
Piercing Gaze - if not +TM, how about +crossbows/bows/thrown over +locksmithing.

Skaen sums up TKS pretty well. PVE or PVP, our pulsing TM is only available 50% of the time. Our multi-shot / AOE requires ammunition and is kind of buggy. The rest is single target TM and that is not a winner.

I'd like to see Shadow Web as maybe an AOE TM spell that also holds victims in the room like Soul Bonding.

Take the Cage of Light messaging for Katamba and make it offense:
With a barely perceptible screech, nearby shadows thicken and ooze toward you, covering you in a <WEB> made of thin, crazed lines that constrict you and cut you into pieces like that dude from the Resident Evil movie.

Also I miss Darkness. I liked that spell.

Is there a post I'm missing that has Moon Mage spells in development? There is an Elanthipedia page but it only lists "Eclipse" and everything about it is unknown.

>>predict weather

Is this the forecast for the next hour? Day? Week?

>predict weather
You gaze at the heavens, taking careful note of the current weather. You sense the weather will progress as follows:
You predict that the sky will be overcast.
After that, the skies will be mostly cloudy.
After that, the skies will be partly cloudy.
After that, the skies will be partly cloudy.
After that, the skies will be mostly cloudy.
After that, the sky will be overcast.
After that, the sky will be overcast.
After that, the sky will be overcast.
After that, the skies will be mostly cloudy.
After that, the skies will be mostly cloudy.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

In a perfect world, the litany of the "Moon mages aren't really good at x" statements would complete, and we would regain some interesting design space.

>I'd like to see Shadow Web as maybe an AOE TM spell that also holds victims in the room like Soul Bonding.

I want to see it return as:
Mind vs Willpower. AOE Debilitation with Xalashar blindness (without wounds) effects with a combination of old Tezirah's Veil (but with checks this time around!) lingering offensive and defensive debuff and pulsing RT/immobility.

Add in the spell messaging like TS and combine it with old shadow web and dial the messaging up to 11. So you're blinded to the world but you see a roiling shadowy nightmarish hellscape at each pulse you fail the check.

Skill/Stat checks to resist the attack, supernaturally ward against it, but not dodge it. Illegal to cast inside justice.

Critters get an aoe lingering offensive/defensive debuff and pulsing immobility.

I miss Darkness too.

>Is there a post I'm missing that has Moon Mage spells in development?

Not a single post, just teasers and tidbits across multiple posts. A lot of spells don't get explicitly announced until release because stuff can happen and then they never see the light of day.

This is a first draft look at the new barrier spells but not just moon mage

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeQhyKyYJ3G_DEYYcQDBAy60BuXhC-pmoV56E6tHYJw/pubhtml

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>>Is this the forecast for the next hour? Day? Week?

I believe that each line represents the next "pulse" of the weather, and those tend to happen every 10-15 minutes. That is just my feeling based on my experience of the system.

- Navesi

>>There is an Elanthipedia page but it only lists "Eclipse" and everything about it is unknown.

I didn't see it answered yet, but as of the last discussion Eclipse was supposed to be a triggered ward that places you in hiding instead of taking damage. I think it is also supposed to be the missing 4th Stellar Magic spell that will be tied to Psychic Projection mana. I believe Raesh said he wasn't entirely happy about the way it was panning out, so it's been restarted a few times and is still on the development table.

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>I'd like to see a QoL improvement to Piercing Gaze making it castable on others.

Not just that, but castable to see through roofs - i.e. the sky while inside. It lets you see through just about anything, including people as far as "what they had for lunch" or whatnot. Makes sense and makes the spell much more use-able.

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Astral Guides really do need some love.

It's a beautiful enchantment. I used to love making them. It's really the pinnacle of the lunar enchanting system, where having a deep knowledge of how the system works allows you to produce a much better product as opposed to simply typing STUDY BOOK and coloring in by the numbers.

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Follow @thayelf on Twitter for absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever!

<<2) Enchanting will likely remove all MM-enchanting from MM.

They've already stated that moon mage specific enchantments will remain moon mage specific. E.g. astral guides, gweths/smashers, etc. The other less specific ones like light sources or garbage cleaners will possibly get a wider release. Complete fluff ones like Empowerment are all but guaranteed to be openly released.

<<(Granted I don't know the details but that seems the way other crafting has gone.)

This isn't any different than only Rangers being able to make hunter bows or only thieves being able to make grandmaster lockpicks.

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>>Not just that, but castable to see through roofs

While I can think of how to mechanically handle this, you're going from seeing through relatively small amounts of material or cloud cover (Which, I know, is a conceptual leap) to seeing through potentially MASSIVE amounts of material. Sure, it could be a roof, but it could also be 10 stories of building or an entire mountain.

That's not something I'm comfortable with trivially doing.

>>1) CJs are gone.

I view this as an improvement to the game.

>>2) Enchanting will likely remove all MM-enchanting from MM.

That is not the intention.

>>3) 30 day timer on astral guides even though jump jewelry is in. :(

Given the wide spread existence of JJ I agree - Astral Guides could potentially see some improvements. I'm reluctant to dig into the system too deeply until we see where the new enchantment system ends up, however.

>>4) Astral guide timer on same timer as gweth smashers.

I believe the intention was for there to be more major enchantments in the long run (Perm moonblades for example) so... I'm not sure what my point was there.

>>5) Morleena was destroyed. I weep that I no longer have my 4 pool predictor. (This is mostly in jest because its been an overall boost even though Morleena is gone.)

Yeah... Morleena was OP'ed. Might I recommend the engimas?

>>6) When Naohhi accidentally broke my divination tools with toolstraps, she said that Raesh's code is freaking beautiful compared to the old stuff. So I'm willing to wait for my tokka deck.

Hahaha. It's very well commented and documented. It's also a bit cthulian. It does remain the code I'm most proud of (Along with Evoke and the Gem Box, all for very different reasons).

>>7) Kodius broke oak limbs so I can't use burin crafting to train mech anymore.

Hmmm. First I've heard of this. Broke how?

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

>> Hmmm. First I've heard of this. Broke how?

Mechanically, Imbue doesn't work on oak limbs anymore. You can't even forage oak limbs unless you get one randomly from "forage limb." You could theoretically chop down an oak tree and get a limb, but that doesn't work either.

You can also theoretically use one of the other carving sources (bones) to make a burin, but I'm not convinced those will work either. Since they were likely converted to the bone/carving system as well. I haven't quite had the need to make a burin to actually use in awhile since I transferred my mech. I'm not entirely sure there's any benefit to having a player made burin vs a store bought burin at this time either.

So, I don't really see strong urgency to fix that particular quirk. It was mostly in jest. There are other ways I can train mech up. :)

<<Two different answers so far.

I'm pretty sure it was said at one point that in order to actually use the sigil you have to be of that guild and/or certain enchantments could only be completed if you had appropriate knowledge or were of a specific guild. Sort of like a crafting confound. E.g. you could only create a weapon that proc'd extra damage to undead if you were a cleric or paladin.

A quick search on epedia brought this post up mentioning guild only vs everyone, but I can't find one yet about sigils specifically: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:Enchantments_-_03/02/2014_-_01:58

<<Neither of which are currently in the system. We haven't seen any applicable of guild only crafting yet.

Because it has been repeatedly stated that moving guild specific crafting to the new crafting system is all going to be worked on at the same time once all the base systems are in place.

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>You could theoretically chop down an oak tree and get a limb, but that doesn't work either.
If it's anything like how prayer beads are behaving, if you get an oak limb from lumberjacking, deed it, and then undeed it at a Society, it works for carving. (At least this is true with sticks, I think limbs/branches were still broken last I checked). I don't know that this will magically work for you but I suppose it could be worth a shot?

>>with whoever has the highest skills winning.

Very amused that this is a complaint in a skill based game. I for one do not miss the days of 2xMB + 400TM Burn wiping out almost anyone.

Samsaren

>>There are only so many ways a player can employ strategy to beat a player that is "higher circle" then them.

Except they use CJs too and parity is retained.

Hint: Use the prediction system. Also this reminds me of a very vague idea for a spell I've wanted to build for a long time that might shift up my project list.

>>Mechanically, Imbue doesn't work on oak limbs anymore.

Can someone test what does and doesn't work for burins currently? Not going to burn a lot of calories on it, but I want to make sure there are sufficient sources available.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose