Previous
I must admit that although I enjoy being an empath, it does trouble me that we are totally dependant upon other guilds not just for advancement but for financial gain. A cleric is needed to be raised and memories, yes, but they can advance without these skills. Additionally, the other guilds improve their money earning potential as they advance through the ranks. With an empath able to take disease at around 20, there is nothing more that a 50th level empath can do to help people than a 20th can. People tend not to tip based on circle, or good looks, but rather what their current financial status and pocket change happen to be.
Arguing with my own point here, I do like that with manipulation we can have critters eventually kill each other and gain minimal coins/gems/boxes from this. I would really like to see this skill increased, or perhaps the always talked about, healing the undead to kill them and earn us money that way.
Some say shifting has brought in a new means of money, but that is not really true. Shifts are a luxury and not a neccessity. Additionally it still requires the generosity of another individual.
I dislike the idea that auto-empaths are evil. They are quite a nice thing to have around and it appears to me that really nice hunting areas are abandoned for lack of an auto-puff nearby (Muspari). Perhaps the auto-empaths should become more expensive. A few gold for the convienience of a heal anytime you like it is rather inexpensive to most of the realm walkers. Many people seem to think that it sure beats a crowded room and a mouthy empath who doesn't like the way you pay for things.
Just a few words of opinion.... everyones got one.
Sonjha
TSAYID
ALLGRINNELL
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
06/30/2005 04:35 PM CDT
I would be all for making auto-empaths' rates based on the circle of the customer. It wouldn't be fair to charge a 2nd-circler 3 plat for a heal, but if a 80th circle barb decides he doesn't like PC empaths/isn't patient enough to wait for one, a 3 plat heal wouldn't be that bad a deal.
MRSMCCLELLAN
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
06/30/2005 05:18 PM CDT
Its been a really really long time, but I believe they were talking of making the auto-healers charge on a scale. So a first circler could go in and get healed for pretty cheap, but an 80th circler would be paying a fairly pretty penny. Not sure what ever happened to the idea, but it was on someones list at some time... or so I thought.
-Etrina
Gossip needn't be false to be evil - there's a lot of truth that shouldn't be passed around.
~Frank A. Clark
-Etrina
Gossip needn't be false to be evil - there's a lot of truth that shouldn't be passed around.
~Frank A. Clark
DARTMAS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/01/2005 02:41 AM CDT
This is beside the point of empaths earning coin, but on the topic of NPC empaths...
Last year I suggested that they be made much much much more effective but should cost significantly more and be slightly less convenient...ie. require that the PC stay responsive in the environment and while they'd be very quickly fully- healed, just as a 90th circle empath would accomplish, the patient would still have to take about a 3-5 minute "break" before returning to whatever....
Why? If the NPCs were that effecient and as well as being that effective, health would be less of a consquence to combat...thus creating imbalance.
It would also make a PC more desirable, but no longer needed for healing.
I think that's very important. PC empaths should be prefered, should have definite advantages, but should not be essential to getting healed. PC empaths should be significantly more desirable than the NPCs, but NPCs should be able to heal anything and do so as well as a PC.
Thus, the time-out factor: a period of time that Fraethis, for example, insists you stay and rest after he's healed you (except it wouldn't be Fraethis only, he'd have a nonblind assistant), and yet also keeps you responsive (can't just go afk while being healed as that would be gaining an ig advantage while unresponsive...imho.)
I'd say that the greatest advantage to PC empaths is that they can go into combat with you...but there are areas of the game where it is not desirable, not at all, to have another PC, yet one who can't kill off critters, with you while hunting.... So some more abilities for empaths to manage critter numbers would be good. We have some, but a few more would be helpful (I made some spell/ability suggestions to Obs at con**)
Along with making NPC empaths more effective, effecient, yet convenient, put more of them in...at least twice as many, so that they're in every town in game.
Also, ways for empaths to make herbs more effective and effecient would be nice, yet empaths tend to shoot themselves in the foot. For one, all the mule empaths wouldn't charge for such ability. For two, even non-mule empaths have this concept that they shouldn't charge for such things..
..that is why empaths have a hard time earning from other people's generosity. There were/are enough empaths who wanted to heal because of what THE EMPATH got out of it to make enough other people no longer willing to give much for a heal, a shift, and if the herb infusion comes out, herbs.
So healing by a PC empath is currently and should always be the best way to get healed, but what needs to change is why it's the best way. Instead of it being the only way to get fully healed, make it the most effecient, most convenient and most beneficial healing...yet give them NPC empaths so that they are not dependent on only PC empaths.
Herbs should always rank below empaths, PC and NPC...just for time they take to work and effectiveness, but yes, still give some special herb infusions for empaths...ways to cure disease, staunch blood, cure poison (although, that may go to thieves...or thieves in conjuction with empaths...either ways, thieves will want to sell through someone else to protect their cover)....
....and please please please...something to tend internal bleeders (like tournaquets) made by empaths and as a way to learn FA off internals.
I think I've lost track of where I was going in this post, so I'll end by mentioning the ability ideas I sketched out roughly to Obseden at con:
**Sorrow: an ability to manipulate creature or person into feeling so filled with sorrow that they start crying uncontrollably, possibly dropping weapon as they throw down their hands in dispair. It would make them act irrationally, perhaps not fighting back at all, perhaps just swinging like crazy without aim, causing harm to both you and theirselves.
**Joy: a manipulative ability that makes target fill with such great joy that they start laughing...it might throw them off balance or even land them rolling on the floor with laughter.
**Anger: spell that fills target with such anger (can be self cast or cast on person or creature) that they fight harder, with more determination (so what if it's like the bard enchante? it's still a reasonable thing that an empath would be able to do with empathy/life magic).
I think I rambled about a few other things, but I forget now. That weekend is a bit of a blurr in parts.
Lisette
Last year I suggested that they be made much much much more effective but should cost significantly more and be slightly less convenient...ie. require that the PC stay responsive in the environment and while they'd be very quickly fully- healed, just as a 90th circle empath would accomplish, the patient would still have to take about a 3-5 minute "break" before returning to whatever....
Why? If the NPCs were that effecient and as well as being that effective, health would be less of a consquence to combat...thus creating imbalance.
It would also make a PC more desirable, but no longer needed for healing.
I think that's very important. PC empaths should be prefered, should have definite advantages, but should not be essential to getting healed. PC empaths should be significantly more desirable than the NPCs, but NPCs should be able to heal anything and do so as well as a PC.
Thus, the time-out factor: a period of time that Fraethis, for example, insists you stay and rest after he's healed you (except it wouldn't be Fraethis only, he'd have a nonblind assistant), and yet also keeps you responsive (can't just go afk while being healed as that would be gaining an ig advantage while unresponsive...imho.)
I'd say that the greatest advantage to PC empaths is that they can go into combat with you...but there are areas of the game where it is not desirable, not at all, to have another PC, yet one who can't kill off critters, with you while hunting.... So some more abilities for empaths to manage critter numbers would be good. We have some, but a few more would be helpful (I made some spell/ability suggestions to Obs at con**)
Along with making NPC empaths more effective, effecient, yet convenient, put more of them in...at least twice as many, so that they're in every town in game.
Also, ways for empaths to make herbs more effective and effecient would be nice, yet empaths tend to shoot themselves in the foot. For one, all the mule empaths wouldn't charge for such ability. For two, even non-mule empaths have this concept that they shouldn't charge for such things..
..that is why empaths have a hard time earning from other people's generosity. There were/are enough empaths who wanted to heal because of what THE EMPATH got out of it to make enough other people no longer willing to give much for a heal, a shift, and if the herb infusion comes out, herbs.
So healing by a PC empath is currently and should always be the best way to get healed, but what needs to change is why it's the best way. Instead of it being the only way to get fully healed, make it the most effecient, most convenient and most beneficial healing...yet give them NPC empaths so that they are not dependent on only PC empaths.
Herbs should always rank below empaths, PC and NPC...just for time they take to work and effectiveness, but yes, still give some special herb infusions for empaths...ways to cure disease, staunch blood, cure poison (although, that may go to thieves...or thieves in conjuction with empaths...either ways, thieves will want to sell through someone else to protect their cover)....
....and please please please...something to tend internal bleeders (like tournaquets) made by empaths and as a way to learn FA off internals.
I think I've lost track of where I was going in this post, so I'll end by mentioning the ability ideas I sketched out roughly to Obseden at con:
**Sorrow: an ability to manipulate creature or person into feeling so filled with sorrow that they start crying uncontrollably, possibly dropping weapon as they throw down their hands in dispair. It would make them act irrationally, perhaps not fighting back at all, perhaps just swinging like crazy without aim, causing harm to both you and theirselves.
**Joy: a manipulative ability that makes target fill with such great joy that they start laughing...it might throw them off balance or even land them rolling on the floor with laughter.
**Anger: spell that fills target with such anger (can be self cast or cast on person or creature) that they fight harder, with more determination (so what if it's like the bard enchante? it's still a reasonable thing that an empath would be able to do with empathy/life magic).
I think I rambled about a few other things, but I forget now. That weekend is a bit of a blurr in parts.
Lisette
ZAIRIUS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 01:23 AM CDT
>It wouldn't be fair to charge a 2nd-circler 3 plat for a heal, but if a 80th circle barb decides he doesn't like PC empaths/isn't patient enough to wait for one, a 3 plat heal wouldn't be that bad a deal.
The only in-game entity who should know someone's circle is a guild leader. An empath has ZERO way of determining someone's circle and increasing a cost due to circle is punishing someone for having more skill.
Just say no to regressive ideas.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
The only in-game entity who should know someone's circle is a guild leader. An empath has ZERO way of determining someone's circle and increasing a cost due to circle is punishing someone for having more skill.
Just say no to regressive ideas.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
DARTMAS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 02:03 AM CDT
I'd expect an empath would indeed be able to know the experience/experiences of her patients. That's in the very definition of empathy, afterall.
We even have an ability, a low level one at that, which allows us to garner skill from another person.
So, someone as experienced as the hospital empaths (who can instantly heal themselves and transfer a wound from a patient in a blink) should have no trouble gaging if a patient has a lot of experience--and thus earning potential, I suppose...doesn't always turn out that high circle = rich. On the other hand, high circle does have earning potential.
Lis
We even have an ability, a low level one at that, which allows us to garner skill from another person.
So, someone as experienced as the hospital empaths (who can instantly heal themselves and transfer a wound from a patient in a blink) should have no trouble gaging if a patient has a lot of experience--and thus earning potential, I suppose...doesn't always turn out that high circle = rich. On the other hand, high circle does have earning potential.
Lis
ARCELEBOR
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 06:27 PM CDT
<< The only in-game entity who should know someone's circle is a guild leader. An empath has ZERO way of determining someone's circle and increasing a cost due to circle is punishing someone for having more skill.
Playability trumps in-game logic.
Arcelebor
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
Playability trumps in-game logic.
Arcelebor
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
SYLVERWIND
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 06:32 PM CDT
>> The only in-game entity who should know someone's circle is a guild leader. An empath has ZERO way of determining someone's circle and increasing a cost due to circle is punishing someone for having more skill.
NPC Empaths would not be the first NPCs magically able to determine your circle and charge you more based on it.
Case in point: divorce blades.
"More colour-coded warnings? I give it a few more years tops until the mere sight of a rainbow fills me with abject terror and confusion."
NPC Empaths would not be the first NPCs magically able to determine your circle and charge you more based on it.
Case in point: divorce blades.
"More colour-coded warnings? I give it a few more years tops until the mere sight of a rainbow fills me with abject terror and confusion."
ZAIRIUS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 09:52 PM CDT
>Playability trumps in-game logic.
And arbitrarily charging someone more because of level is the opposite of playability.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
And arbitrarily charging someone more because of level is the opposite of playability.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
ARCELEBOR
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 10:12 PM CDT
<< And arbitrarily charging someone more because of level is the opposite of playability
How do you figure?
It adds playability to the younger player who pays a more forgiving scaled fee. It takes nothing from a higher-level character who has more cash to spend anyway, more options for healing, and the ability to survive far longer with far worse wounds.
Arcelebor
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
How do you figure?
It adds playability to the younger player who pays a more forgiving scaled fee. It takes nothing from a higher-level character who has more cash to spend anyway, more options for healing, and the ability to survive far longer with far worse wounds.
Arcelebor
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
ZAIRIUS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 10:37 PM CDT
>It takes nothing from a higher-level character who has more cash to spend anyway, more options for healing, and the ability to survive far longer with far worse wounds.
It increases costs based on the supposed ability to make more money. Thus you end up going nowhere even though you increase in power. This is the anti-thesis of playability.
A scuff is a scuff is a scuff.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
It increases costs based on the supposed ability to make more money. Thus you end up going nowhere even though you increase in power. This is the anti-thesis of playability.
A scuff is a scuff is a scuff.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
SYLVERWIND
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 10:51 PM CDT
Think of it as a discount given to "younger" adventurers rather than a price hike given to "older" ones, then.
"More colour-coded warnings? I give it a few more years tops until the mere sight of a rainbow fills me with abject terror and confusion."
"More colour-coded warnings? I give it a few more years tops until the mere sight of a rainbow fills me with abject terror and confusion."
ZAIRIUS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 11:04 PM CDT
>hink of it as a discount given to "younger" adventurers rather than a price hike given to "older" ones, then.
Still wrong.
You could... make the NPC empath in Crossing charge less.
or. make the NPC empath not charge novices.
or. you could have a 2 tier pricing system where there is only one jump in price.
But anything that scales with level is wrong.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Still wrong.
You could... make the NPC empath in Crossing charge less.
or. make the NPC empath not charge novices.
or. you could have a 2 tier pricing system where there is only one jump in price.
But anything that scales with level is wrong.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
THREEPHI
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 11:12 PM CDT
I don't have a problem with making those who can afford to pay more, pay more. I'd think the GM's would love this idea since generally, they like things that drain cash from the economy.
It's true though that circle does not directly correlate with wealth. So connect it to bank balances. The mechanics already exist to check how much loot you have.
It's true though that circle does not directly correlate with wealth. So connect it to bank balances. The mechanics already exist to check how much loot you have.
JARAAD
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/02/2005 11:26 PM CDT
I recently went back to Ratha for the first time in over a RL year and discovered that I'd left a sizeable amount of money in that bank without knowing it. I would have been paying FAR more for healing, and not even know it, if it were based on bank balance.
Besides that, keep your money in the family! Go to the local Empath sitting spot instead of the NPC healer and give a poor empath some tips.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
Besides that, keep your money in the family! Go to the local Empath sitting spot instead of the NPC healer and give a poor empath some tips.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
WOOLUMSC
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/04/2005 07:00 AM CDT
<<Besides that, keep your money in the family! Go to the local Empath sitting spot instead of the NPC healer and give a poor empath some tips.>>
Thank you! If I made HALF of what the auto-empaths made from ONE healing in a TIP - I'd be doing much better financially. Apparently, Zoluren is in a great state of depression - where practically NO ONE has any money to tip - and feel that either no thank you is necessary and they can walk out after being healed without so much as a glance, or the "I'm new, I have no money to give you" whisper is acceptable. I don't see why people complain about the auto-empath prices when I've SEEN what people consider an "acceptable" tip. Someone earlier said folks tip based on their own financial status - I've not found this to be true at all. I find - that people tip based on how many "small diopsides" they feel like pulling out of the pouch.
~Chris
Thank you! If I made HALF of what the auto-empaths made from ONE healing in a TIP - I'd be doing much better financially. Apparently, Zoluren is in a great state of depression - where practically NO ONE has any money to tip - and feel that either no thank you is necessary and they can walk out after being healed without so much as a glance, or the "I'm new, I have no money to give you" whisper is acceptable. I don't see why people complain about the auto-empath prices when I've SEEN what people consider an "acceptable" tip. Someone earlier said folks tip based on their own financial status - I've not found this to be true at all. I find - that people tip based on how many "small diopsides" they feel like pulling out of the pouch.
~Chris
SOUVUELLE1
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/04/2005 10:56 AM CDT
I recently out of curiosity took my ranger to be healed by an NPC healer instead of my empath... This is long but very sobering, so bear with me
the NPC healer took aproximately 1.3 silver per wound (internal, external, wound, scar) which after battle damages ended up being approximately 6.7 gold for the complete heal... I wouldn't dare compare the time it took the NPC healer to heal me to the time it would take my empath (8 seconds or so for the empath, minutes for the healer) against the coin lost on the project... but here are some rough comparisons
I've typically aquired a medium gem or two per heal
You get a medium star diopside from inside your gem pouch.
>app dio
The star diopside feels pretty light.
You are certain that the star diopside is worth exactly 167 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
the NPC healer charges about that per wound... Now from a non-empath standpoint... I can get away with a lot more by going to an empath for healing versus the NPC empath... 3 silver or so for a complete heal by an empath taking 8 seconds, versus 6.7 gold to heal your wounds at an NPC empath taking several minutes to do so.
From an empath standpoint... that's pretty darn insulting... were I to charge even half a plat for a heal, people would laugh at me and go find someone else, yet people threaten all the time on these boards to go to an NPC healer instead of an empath because they feel that empaths ask for too much, or that NPC healers should be uptweaked, or empaths aren't completely attentive to the environment or some equally hypocritical message.
If I were to compare the services of an NPC empath and a PC empath, I would say that even in spite of the NPC healer being 100% attentive to the environment, you're still better off going to a PC empath. That's not counting that the PC empath can travel and save your bum in a hunting ground or meet you halfway because your vit is lagging and you won't make it to town, all services an NPC empath can not provide. That's just assuming that the empath will respond within a short period of time, heal you in aproximately 10-15 seconds, and can heal things like disease, poison, and severe scars.
Now mind you, NPC empaths don't have to, or need to, or want to, spend their coin... The coin they take from you goes back into the coffers of the game never to be seen again. A PC empath might want to use that coin for a fluff item, or perhaps a new set of armor, or somesuch item... all of which cost upwards of plats... not silvers. Is it very fair to say that we can pay a PC empath 80% less than a NPC empath, yet demand better service, faster response time than a computer, or travel? I'd say no...
Now I'm not completely desensitized to the needs of the hunting community... I realize that until you get up there in level, being able to spare half a plat on a heal is just not possible... In fact, during my test I also calculated the monetary gains I aquired during my hunting trip. I hunted in sand sprites, arguably very leucrative for their level. I took all the coins, sold all the gems, popped all the boxes, and wound up with just over what it cost me to be healed by the NPC healer. Comparatively, I couldn't hunt a same level creature that provided less coin and remain afloat paying that much for healing.
Therefore, I have concluded that NPC healers charge far too much, and PC empaths are not tipped sufficiently. I see this as a viable problem given the current state of the elanthian economy. There are a few solutions that I can see to this problem... Either we reduce the amount of money an NPC charges to better suit the quality of service they provide, or we choose/force empaths to be paid more to properly compensate them for their time and effort.
Viably, I only see a few choices to remedy the situation. We could enforce a system in which a PC empath can charge for his services akin to the barter verb with the money changing hands when the PC is completely healed or dies, whichever comes first. This system wound be severely flawed and would have to be debugged before ever being considered
We could make the NPC healers share their coffers for the time spend on active "guild duty" as a form of salary for spending time in the guildhall healing, commensurate with the number of people we healed. The time you are allowed to spend would have to be limited in some way to avoid misuse of the system. Ideally, I feel this is the most viable solution I could come up with. It would work similar to the trader contract system. You would sign up for guild duty, then go out and heal for a time. People who you healed could then "award" you in some fashion to notify the system that you healed them, and offer a form of tip if they wanted to add to it. When you were done with your healing stint, you could return to the guild, sign out of the list and be payed according to the records kept. In my eyes, this would be a justification for the extremely high taxes we pay. It would also take some of the burden off of the hunter to pay the NPC/PC empath for his services, while still allowing for people who want to be generous to do so.
Please destroy my post at your leisure
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
the NPC healer took aproximately 1.3 silver per wound (internal, external, wound, scar) which after battle damages ended up being approximately 6.7 gold for the complete heal... I wouldn't dare compare the time it took the NPC healer to heal me to the time it would take my empath (8 seconds or so for the empath, minutes for the healer) against the coin lost on the project... but here are some rough comparisons
I've typically aquired a medium gem or two per heal
You get a medium star diopside from inside your gem pouch.
>app dio
The star diopside feels pretty light.
You are certain that the star diopside is worth exactly 167 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
the NPC healer charges about that per wound... Now from a non-empath standpoint... I can get away with a lot more by going to an empath for healing versus the NPC empath... 3 silver or so for a complete heal by an empath taking 8 seconds, versus 6.7 gold to heal your wounds at an NPC empath taking several minutes to do so.
From an empath standpoint... that's pretty darn insulting... were I to charge even half a plat for a heal, people would laugh at me and go find someone else, yet people threaten all the time on these boards to go to an NPC healer instead of an empath because they feel that empaths ask for too much, or that NPC healers should be uptweaked, or empaths aren't completely attentive to the environment or some equally hypocritical message.
If I were to compare the services of an NPC empath and a PC empath, I would say that even in spite of the NPC healer being 100% attentive to the environment, you're still better off going to a PC empath. That's not counting that the PC empath can travel and save your bum in a hunting ground or meet you halfway because your vit is lagging and you won't make it to town, all services an NPC empath can not provide. That's just assuming that the empath will respond within a short period of time, heal you in aproximately 10-15 seconds, and can heal things like disease, poison, and severe scars.
Now mind you, NPC empaths don't have to, or need to, or want to, spend their coin... The coin they take from you goes back into the coffers of the game never to be seen again. A PC empath might want to use that coin for a fluff item, or perhaps a new set of armor, or somesuch item... all of which cost upwards of plats... not silvers. Is it very fair to say that we can pay a PC empath 80% less than a NPC empath, yet demand better service, faster response time than a computer, or travel? I'd say no...
Now I'm not completely desensitized to the needs of the hunting community... I realize that until you get up there in level, being able to spare half a plat on a heal is just not possible... In fact, during my test I also calculated the monetary gains I aquired during my hunting trip. I hunted in sand sprites, arguably very leucrative for their level. I took all the coins, sold all the gems, popped all the boxes, and wound up with just over what it cost me to be healed by the NPC healer. Comparatively, I couldn't hunt a same level creature that provided less coin and remain afloat paying that much for healing.
Therefore, I have concluded that NPC healers charge far too much, and PC empaths are not tipped sufficiently. I see this as a viable problem given the current state of the elanthian economy. There are a few solutions that I can see to this problem... Either we reduce the amount of money an NPC charges to better suit the quality of service they provide, or we choose/force empaths to be paid more to properly compensate them for their time and effort.
Viably, I only see a few choices to remedy the situation. We could enforce a system in which a PC empath can charge for his services akin to the barter verb with the money changing hands when the PC is completely healed or dies, whichever comes first. This system wound be severely flawed and would have to be debugged before ever being considered
We could make the NPC healers share their coffers for the time spend on active "guild duty" as a form of salary for spending time in the guildhall healing, commensurate with the number of people we healed. The time you are allowed to spend would have to be limited in some way to avoid misuse of the system. Ideally, I feel this is the most viable solution I could come up with. It would work similar to the trader contract system. You would sign up for guild duty, then go out and heal for a time. People who you healed could then "award" you in some fashion to notify the system that you healed them, and offer a form of tip if they wanted to add to it. When you were done with your healing stint, you could return to the guild, sign out of the list and be payed according to the records kept. In my eyes, this would be a justification for the extremely high taxes we pay. It would also take some of the burden off of the hunter to pay the NPC/PC empath for his services, while still allowing for people who want to be generous to do so.
Please destroy my post at your leisure
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
JENSOPPA
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/04/2005 11:50 AM CDT
>From an empath standpoint... that's pretty darn insulting... were I to charge even half a plat for a heal, people would laugh at me and go find someone else, yet people threaten all the time on these boards to go to an NPC healer instead of an empath because they feel that empaths ask for too much, or that NPC healers should be uptweaked, or empaths aren't completely attentive to the environment or some equally hypocritical message. Souv
Not to mention most of the NPC's will not heal your disease, give you vit or heal scars left by eating herbs. If hunters want to use an NPC, that works for me. I take no offense to it what so ever. I don't think the NPC price is too high either, though I think there should be more of them... Muspar'i etc. For the most part, Empath's have done this to themselves, by not accepting tips, or gwething for free heals. Though lately, I see more and more messages on the gweth of people looking for Healers, which used to never happen.
You run into a lot of people back-training. Sure they are not making much while doing that, but they have the -potential- to hunt say Gargs or Raiders or even Sky Giants or Scorps.. the excuse of, sorry I don't have anything to tip with is not valid.
Nor is the low level hunter who is decked out in 200 plat leathers, 75 plat bow, snake charm, flower charm and every other expensive armor and fluff.
>I've typically aquired a medium gem or two per heal. Souv
I ran into a great example of this in Lang a few weeks ago. Several hunters were very busy with Fens then running back in for healing. This gal was healing her heart out to keep them all well and let them get back out. Through the entire hour, they gave her maybe 1 gold in gems. I took her with me out through the area these folks had been hunting and there were more gems that these folks had left on the ground. She was amazed and pretty upset. So, we went through all the empty rooms and she filled her pouch with gems. In a few minutes she had a pouch full of gems and was a over a plat richer.
Lots of them were backtraing and only pick up the best gems, leaving behind the rest. It's pretty sad when a hunter will leave behind more than they are willing to offer the healer.
On the flip side, there are some that tip very nicely in the Lang/Theren area, but this scenario I see in almost all proviences.
Xochi
Not to mention most of the NPC's will not heal your disease, give you vit or heal scars left by eating herbs. If hunters want to use an NPC, that works for me. I take no offense to it what so ever. I don't think the NPC price is too high either, though I think there should be more of them... Muspar'i etc. For the most part, Empath's have done this to themselves, by not accepting tips, or gwething for free heals. Though lately, I see more and more messages on the gweth of people looking for Healers, which used to never happen.
You run into a lot of people back-training. Sure they are not making much while doing that, but they have the -potential- to hunt say Gargs or Raiders or even Sky Giants or Scorps.. the excuse of, sorry I don't have anything to tip with is not valid.
Nor is the low level hunter who is decked out in 200 plat leathers, 75 plat bow, snake charm, flower charm and every other expensive armor and fluff.
>I've typically aquired a medium gem or two per heal. Souv
I ran into a great example of this in Lang a few weeks ago. Several hunters were very busy with Fens then running back in for healing. This gal was healing her heart out to keep them all well and let them get back out. Through the entire hour, they gave her maybe 1 gold in gems. I took her with me out through the area these folks had been hunting and there were more gems that these folks had left on the ground. She was amazed and pretty upset. So, we went through all the empty rooms and she filled her pouch with gems. In a few minutes she had a pouch full of gems and was a over a plat richer.
Lots of them were backtraing and only pick up the best gems, leaving behind the rest. It's pretty sad when a hunter will leave behind more than they are willing to offer the healer.
On the flip side, there are some that tip very nicely in the Lang/Theren area, but this scenario I see in almost all proviences.
Xochi
LOFTONM1
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/04/2005 01:24 PM CDT
>>The time you are allowed to spend would have to be limited in some way to avoid misuse of the system.
I dunno if I'd do it by time. Maybe set it up on a per-patient basis, which would guarantee that only those healing would get the money. Of course, I'd also insist on changing the autopaths to work more like pay telephones--you give them an amount of coin or gems, they start healing until it runs out (leftovers would be rounded down to the nearest gold and returned in coin, allowing the autopaths to pocket up 999 kronar/lirum/dokora without providing services without also taking you for the 2 plat you originally gave them when it only cost them 5 gold to fully heal you.) With this incentive and knowing that some of it will end up in my pockets, I wouldn't really mind if autopaths were made equal to empaths in terms of ability (ie, all wounds, all scars, poison, disease). If you are in a hurry or don't want to wait, go to the PCs; if you want to lounge around awhile, see the autopaths.
J'Lo, no that other one
I dunno if I'd do it by time. Maybe set it up on a per-patient basis, which would guarantee that only those healing would get the money. Of course, I'd also insist on changing the autopaths to work more like pay telephones--you give them an amount of coin or gems, they start healing until it runs out (leftovers would be rounded down to the nearest gold and returned in coin, allowing the autopaths to pocket up 999 kronar/lirum/dokora without providing services without also taking you for the 2 plat you originally gave them when it only cost them 5 gold to fully heal you.) With this incentive and knowing that some of it will end up in my pockets, I wouldn't really mind if autopaths were made equal to empaths in terms of ability (ie, all wounds, all scars, poison, disease). If you are in a hurry or don't want to wait, go to the PCs; if you want to lounge around awhile, see the autopaths.
J'Lo, no that other one
JARAAD
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/04/2005 03:33 PM CDT
I tend to tip 20% for all services; usually the only services I use are empaths and gem sellers. Gem sellers I'll tip 20% of the price they get on the pouch (depends wildly on the gems being sold), empaths I'll tip 20% of the money I've made getting the wounds I'm getting healed which is usually somewhere in the range of 4 gold.
That's STILL cheaper than the NPC healer, and the empaths are faster and heal more completely.
The only other service I tip for (when they accept it) is post-death services which tend to be harder to pin a kronar value on... Usually I try to tip 5 gold for a full rejuv, 2 gold for a glyph, and when I get a rezz I try to tip both the cleric and the empath at least a plat each.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
That's STILL cheaper than the NPC healer, and the empaths are faster and heal more completely.
The only other service I tip for (when they accept it) is post-death services which tend to be harder to pin a kronar value on... Usually I try to tip 5 gold for a full rejuv, 2 gold for a glyph, and when I get a rezz I try to tip both the cleric and the empath at least a plat each.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
JENSOPPA
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/04/2005 03:50 PM CDT
>That's STILL cheaper than the NPC healer, and the empaths are faster and heal more completely.
I agree! You've worked out a nice scale of tipping. I'm sure the Empath's that heal you appreciate it!
Xochi
I agree! You've worked out a nice scale of tipping. I'm sure the Empath's that heal you appreciate it!
Xochi
MANDALA
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/04/2005 06:39 PM CDT
My biggest gripe is folks who sit and chat about the new sword they just had forged for them or the new armor that cost them a bundle, then they ask for a heal and when you're all done healing them..... Maybe a "Thanks," if you're lucky. Here I am after 6 years and can barely afford gweths! (I don't play that often, but I am almost 50th!)
Alisande (a bit grumpy because it happened just a few minutes ago.)
Alisande (a bit grumpy because it happened just a few minutes ago.)
SOUVUELLE1
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/05/2005 07:17 AM CDT
>>My biggest gripe is folks who sit and chat about the new sword they just had forged for them or the new armor that cost them a bundle, then they ask for a heal and when you're all done healing them..... Maybe a "Thanks," if you're lucky. Here I am after 6 years and can barely afford gweths! (I don't play that often, but I am almost 50th!)
Alisande (a bit grumpy because it happened just a few minutes ago.)<<
rant
I know how you feel Alisande... I've probably spent less in my entire life in the realms than some people have spent on spellbooks. Prior to this last war, I had 5 plat in the bank... I considered myself lucky to have that. I didn't spend money at all, I manipulated, and healed. During the war, I joined the Army and was absolutely floored to get a 40 plat tip from my commander... It was quite literally the most money I'd ever seen on any of my characters and she gave it away like it was a copper. There were other people during the war who tipped very well for services, handed out invasion leftovers to the empaths who nearly and did die frequently to keep them in the fight. I actually ended up making a respectable amount of money for someone half my circle. I was only 25th circle when shifting became popular and as a result, I didn't get to make some of that really good coin that others who were more skilled made. Most everything I wear now was given to me. I made some personalizations with dying and such, and made a really cheap outfit look expensive. So yeah, empaths are made out both in game and by characters to be selfless Martyr-paupers, yet we work with royalty, the justice system, and almost everything of importance in the world and the world would arguably not be what it was without the empaths, and that's just historically, not even taking into account game mechanics.
/rant
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
Alisande (a bit grumpy because it happened just a few minutes ago.)<<
rant
I know how you feel Alisande... I've probably spent less in my entire life in the realms than some people have spent on spellbooks. Prior to this last war, I had 5 plat in the bank... I considered myself lucky to have that. I didn't spend money at all, I manipulated, and healed. During the war, I joined the Army and was absolutely floored to get a 40 plat tip from my commander... It was quite literally the most money I'd ever seen on any of my characters and she gave it away like it was a copper. There were other people during the war who tipped very well for services, handed out invasion leftovers to the empaths who nearly and did die frequently to keep them in the fight. I actually ended up making a respectable amount of money for someone half my circle. I was only 25th circle when shifting became popular and as a result, I didn't get to make some of that really good coin that others who were more skilled made. Most everything I wear now was given to me. I made some personalizations with dying and such, and made a really cheap outfit look expensive. So yeah, empaths are made out both in game and by characters to be selfless Martyr-paupers, yet we work with royalty, the justice system, and almost everything of importance in the world and the world would arguably not be what it was without the empaths, and that's just historically, not even taking into account game mechanics.
/rant
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
RUNYAN
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/05/2005 10:04 AM CDT
Personally, I'd not buy into an auto-empath type system. I do like the tipping system, it allows people to be generous(which some are) where if there were a set monetary fee, I think it would encourage people to pay just that much. Plus a system where there isn't a strict monetary fee allows people to pay in innovative ways, beyond just coin. Gems being the most common, but also items. I once got a wearable cambrinth item as a tip, which was nice and served as a perfect gift later, which I wouldn't have had otherwise. Not to mention that my character buys in big time to the tipping system and would never demand payment for healing. Though he does accept whatever his patients wish to offer.
One thing that doesn't help are those empaths who don't take tips. I can understand why, but it tends to teach some that empaths in general don't want tips, which doesn't help those who need them. I would encourage those who don't want tips personally to take them, then pass them on to younger empaths who are in need of the funds. Not only will it keep people from assuming that empaths don't want tips, but it will siphon monies to those who need them, namely those who aren't so good at the healing game yet.
As well, to encourage at least adequate generosity, I would encourage empaths to show a little bias when it comes to good and bad tippers. Personally, with Rynend, I tend to hop to it for those who tip kindly more than those who don't. While, in a life or death situation, he'll heal nearly anyone, other times he'd be less inclined to deal with those who don't tip or who give insultingly low tips. Again, encouragement toward a more desirable behavior. Though it would take a guild level effort to truly effect change on this level.
It surprises me that this is not a bigger practice, considering I'd much like to have half the empaths in the realms looking for my characters should they fall. Makes a lot of sense to keep your empaths and clerics happy, all said.
Personally, though, it would be nice if we had a better means of making money outside of healing and shifting(which I'll likely never make a dime from personally, since I don't plan on joining one of those shifting cabals). Some foray into the creation system that empaths have an advantage at would be nice.
One thing that doesn't help are those empaths who don't take tips. I can understand why, but it tends to teach some that empaths in general don't want tips, which doesn't help those who need them. I would encourage those who don't want tips personally to take them, then pass them on to younger empaths who are in need of the funds. Not only will it keep people from assuming that empaths don't want tips, but it will siphon monies to those who need them, namely those who aren't so good at the healing game yet.
As well, to encourage at least adequate generosity, I would encourage empaths to show a little bias when it comes to good and bad tippers. Personally, with Rynend, I tend to hop to it for those who tip kindly more than those who don't. While, in a life or death situation, he'll heal nearly anyone, other times he'd be less inclined to deal with those who don't tip or who give insultingly low tips. Again, encouragement toward a more desirable behavior. Though it would take a guild level effort to truly effect change on this level.
It surprises me that this is not a bigger practice, considering I'd much like to have half the empaths in the realms looking for my characters should they fall. Makes a lot of sense to keep your empaths and clerics happy, all said.
Personally, though, it would be nice if we had a better means of making money outside of healing and shifting(which I'll likely never make a dime from personally, since I don't plan on joining one of those shifting cabals). Some foray into the creation system that empaths have an advantage at would be nice.
SAKHARA
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/05/2005 11:20 AM CDT
>I would encourage empaths to show a little bias when it comes to good and bad tippers.
Not even just a little. If someone doesn't tip me I become very hard of hearing. If they tip me poorly, well, I might hear them I might not. All depends on if I'm bored. If they're a good tipper, I hear very well and if they're excellent, I've been known to hear all the way from Aesry to Ratha or Leth to past Crossing. Amazing that. Good ears if you ring a sack of coins or pouch of gems at me. Very poor ears for other stuff, I'm afraid.
Dio
Not even just a little. If someone doesn't tip me I become very hard of hearing. If they tip me poorly, well, I might hear them I might not. All depends on if I'm bored. If they're a good tipper, I hear very well and if they're excellent, I've been known to hear all the way from Aesry to Ratha or Leth to past Crossing. Amazing that. Good ears if you ring a sack of coins or pouch of gems at me. Very poor ears for other stuff, I'm afraid.
Dio
SOUVUELLE1
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/05/2005 05:00 PM CDT
I'm with Dio on that one... I become quite deaf if someone offends me and can hear quite well if someone is very nice to me... Luckily for most people, I don't get offended very easily. I usually give them the three strike rule for bad attitudes and lousy tippers, then I usually assume that someone who had a good attitude or was a good tipper would do the same until they prove me wrong.
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
Souv
You sense (N, S) from your current position:
A relatively healthy presence nearby.
Roundtime: 6 seconds
DARTMAS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 03:13 AM CDT
>Playability trumps in-game logic.
There is nothing non-logical about it. Empaths can very well determine experience level. Again, there is the link skill which already exists in game plus it's the very definition of being emphatic to know somebody else's experience.
Because it's my favorite book, I'll refer to the ending of <To Kill a Mockingbird> where Scout stands on Boo Radley's porch and, with her newly found empathy, she is able to look out over the street and see/experience what it was like to be him and watch her, Jem and Dill playing, Miss Maudie's house burning, etc.
Empathy = knowing experience. Knowing experience in DR = knowing skills.
Because of playability/player's assumed right to keep skills secret (thus avoid teach, needing permission to link skills, etc), PC empaths are not able to just focus on and know your skill or circle. But that doesn't mean it's illogical for them to know it, nor does it mean it's not possible.
An NPC empath could very well tell if someone is more or less experienced (it is experience/earning potential, not circle, that should factor into cost, anyhow).
<<And arbitrarily charging someone more because of level is the opposite of playability.>>
Well, first, it's not arbitrary. There is a definitive reason for it. Since there is reason, it can't be arbitrary.
Second, it wouldn't be charging them more, it would be charging new adventurers/less experienced people less. Although, yes, the prices overall would go up. There is such thing as inflation, even in Elanthia (as witnessed by festival and special merchant prices, at the very least).
Lisette
There is nothing non-logical about it. Empaths can very well determine experience level. Again, there is the link skill which already exists in game plus it's the very definition of being emphatic to know somebody else's experience.
Because it's my favorite book, I'll refer to the ending of <To Kill a Mockingbird> where Scout stands on Boo Radley's porch and, with her newly found empathy, she is able to look out over the street and see/experience what it was like to be him and watch her, Jem and Dill playing, Miss Maudie's house burning, etc.
Empathy = knowing experience. Knowing experience in DR = knowing skills.
Because of playability/player's assumed right to keep skills secret (thus avoid teach, needing permission to link skills, etc), PC empaths are not able to just focus on and know your skill or circle. But that doesn't mean it's illogical for them to know it, nor does it mean it's not possible.
An NPC empath could very well tell if someone is more or less experienced (it is experience/earning potential, not circle, that should factor into cost, anyhow).
<<And arbitrarily charging someone more because of level is the opposite of playability.>>
Well, first, it's not arbitrary. There is a definitive reason for it. Since there is reason, it can't be arbitrary.
Second, it wouldn't be charging them more, it would be charging new adventurers/less experienced people less. Although, yes, the prices overall would go up. There is such thing as inflation, even in Elanthia (as witnessed by festival and special merchant prices, at the very least).
Lisette
DARTMAS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 03:14 AM CDT
<<But anything that scales with level is wrong.>>
Why?
Why?
DARTMAS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 03:17 AM CDT
<< So connect it to bank balances. The mechanics already exist to check how much loot you have. >>
It wouldn't work to connect it to wealth as people can have bank mules.
A connection to combat experience will be an effective and feasible measure for the ability to pay. It may not determine who is wealthy and who isn't, but it will determine who has the ability to earn the money for payment.
It wouldn't work to connect it to wealth as people can have bank mules.
A connection to combat experience will be an effective and feasible measure for the ability to pay. It may not determine who is wealthy and who isn't, but it will determine who has the ability to earn the money for payment.
RUNYAN
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 08:11 AM CDT
I think the push to connect a mechanic to the amount of money someone has, to force a certain level of 'tip'(as it wouldn't be a tip anymore, more a fee) is a bad idea. I think it would foster more antipathy toward Empaths than exists now. And those with massive sums in the bank would be forced to pay extreme amounts to get healed, where even a generous voluntary tip would be less.
Better to prompt a chance through social engineering than to ram it down the throats of the game's population.
Better to prompt a chance through social engineering than to ram it down the throats of the game's population.
ALLGRINNELL
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 11:36 AM CDT
>>I think the push to connect a mechanic to the amount of money someone has, to force a certain level of 'tip'(as it wouldn't be a tip anymore, more a fee) is a bad idea. I think it would foster more antipathy toward Empaths than exists now.
I think (correct me if I'm wrong) this discussion was about changing the way the auto-empaths worked. They already charge a fee. So it wouldn't really impact people's feeling towards PC empaths, except maybe make them more likely to go to a PC empath/ pay a PC empath.
I think (correct me if I'm wrong) this discussion was about changing the way the auto-empaths worked. They already charge a fee. So it wouldn't really impact people's feeling towards PC empaths, except maybe make them more likely to go to a PC empath/ pay a PC empath.
THREEPHI
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 02:50 PM CDT
>I think (correct me if I'm wrong) this discussion was about changing the way the auto-empaths worked.
Correct, or at least that's what I was talking about.
Correct, or at least that's what I was talking about.
ZAIRIUS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 04:58 PM CDT
>Empathy = knowing experience. Knowing experience in DR = knowing skills.
Knowing someones ranks does not equate to knowing their circle.
Also what's the point of circling if things get harder/more expensive automatically due to circle.
>Second, it wouldn't be charging them more, it would be charging new adventurers/less experienced people less.
Like I said in a prior post I don't mind newer people being charged a discount rate and the prices of NPCs going up overall. I do mind if I get charged more per scuff just because I circled again.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
Knowing someones ranks does not equate to knowing their circle.
Also what's the point of circling if things get harder/more expensive automatically due to circle.
>Second, it wouldn't be charging them more, it would be charging new adventurers/less experienced people less.
Like I said in a prior post I don't mind newer people being charged a discount rate and the prices of NPCs going up overall. I do mind if I get charged more per scuff just because I circled again.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
MCNITTD1
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 05:26 PM CDT
I think more expensive auto-healers will just spur the creation of more mule empaths. In fact, I'm all for the auto-healers in remote areas to be improved or created.
As has been proven time and time again in DR, the road to wealth is paved with creation systems. Lobby for that if you want to see plats outside of combat or tips.
~Purehand
As has been proven time and time again in DR, the road to wealth is paved with creation systems. Lobby for that if you want to see plats outside of combat or tips.
~Purehand
ZAIRIUS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 05:35 PM CDT
>As has been proven time and time again in DR, the road to wealth is paved with creation systems.
For the most part creation systems only reward the top few. The road to wealth is actually from lucrative game systems not from other players. Soim did an experiment and found he could net far more loot hunting then anyone making stuff.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
For the most part creation systems only reward the top few. The road to wealth is actually from lucrative game systems not from other players. Soim did an experiment and found he could net far more loot hunting then anyone making stuff.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
JENSOPPA
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 05:46 PM CDT
>I think more expensive auto-healers will just spur the creation of more mule empaths. In fact, I'm all for the auto-healers in remote areas to be improved or created.
I agree with you 100%. NPC's should be in all provinces and remote areas, and they should heal everything. To die in Haven because of an internal eye bleeder is silly, he should at least give vitality.
Xochi
I agree with you 100%. NPC's should be in all provinces and remote areas, and they should heal everything. To die in Haven because of an internal eye bleeder is silly, he should at least give vitality.
Xochi
JENSOPPA
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 06:01 PM CDT
>Soim did an experiment and found he could net far more loot hunting then anyone making stuff.
Unfortunately, that's not in the cards for us. It hits those hardest that choose to be Empath primary so I'm not sure how much room I have to complain. (I'll claim ignorance that many years ago) I suppose we could make a combat character to mule for us. <g> I really don't want to do that though. I'd rather see all Guilds with good access to the wealth. Some will always have better, but at least scoot us into the decent spectrum.
Xochi
Unfortunately, that's not in the cards for us. It hits those hardest that choose to be Empath primary so I'm not sure how much room I have to complain. (I'll claim ignorance that many years ago) I suppose we could make a combat character to mule for us. <g> I really don't want to do that though. I'd rather see all Guilds with good access to the wealth. Some will always have better, but at least scoot us into the decent spectrum.
Xochi
ZAIRIUS
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 06:33 PM CDT
>I'd rather see all Guilds with good access to the wealth.
I was more pointing out how a creation system isn't necessarily a panacea.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
I was more pointing out how a creation system isn't necessarily a panacea.
'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido
Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
MCNITTD1
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 07:34 PM CDT
>The road to wealth is actually from lucrative game systems not from other players. Soim did an experiment and found he could net far more loot hunting then anyone making stuff.
Eh.... yeah, so it would be nice if we got that undead healing thing. But since that has been in the wings for years, What other lucrative game systems are you speaking of that are so much better than a useful creation system?
>For the most part creation systems only reward the top few.
And Soim was hunting goblins I'm sure. When Shifting came out it wasn't unusual for me to earn 40-50 plat a day. I have a war mage around my circle that would be hard pressed to make that much hunting in a day. It's doable, but that means some long hours.
Creation systems sure don't rank up there with pilfering or 80+ level hunting, but as far as a solution that makes more sense than creation systems for a lore primary guild, I can't think of one.
~Purehand
Eh.... yeah, so it would be nice if we got that undead healing thing. But since that has been in the wings for years, What other lucrative game systems are you speaking of that are so much better than a useful creation system?
>For the most part creation systems only reward the top few.
And Soim was hunting goblins I'm sure. When Shifting came out it wasn't unusual for me to earn 40-50 plat a day. I have a war mage around my circle that would be hard pressed to make that much hunting in a day. It's doable, but that means some long hours.
Creation systems sure don't rank up there with pilfering or 80+ level hunting, but as far as a solution that makes more sense than creation systems for a lore primary guild, I can't think of one.
~Purehand
THREEPHI
Re: Ability to earn money outside of tips.
07/06/2005 10:33 PM CDT
>Knowing someones ranks does not equate to knowing their circle.
Knowing someone's ranks plus knowing their guild means you know their circle. Checking your ranks is precisely what guildleaders do when they check if a player is ready to advance.
Knowing someone's ranks plus knowing their guild means you know their circle. Checking your ranks is precisely what guildleaders do when they check if a player is ready to advance.
