>>I will try and keep the times varied, but I'm on the left coast and a night owl to boot, so don't expect them too early.

Night owl is good! But, man, everyone is in the US... if you're ever doing events, just remember now and then that there are a few of us outside that country... ;)

Also, I hope you'll be inviting some low circle bards to the meetings too, as that's where I fall. :)

Crap, out of town for the weekend and doubt I'll be around much. Just assume at these mini meetings that I'm pushing for something to make us dominate in PvP and such. :) Hopefully I'll manage to be on and time it right to join in.


-=Issus=-

>>Sounds like fun--Are we talking 8-11 CST late, or later than that even?

1pm (EST) is about as early as I'm going to get, and I can't see holding one much later then 5-6 am PST. How's that for possible extremes?

-Raesh

Sorry, both times were suppose to be EST. 1pm - 5ish am EST. Or 10am - 2 am PST. And really, those were the extremes of my range.

That said, I was listing potential start times, I realize I didn't make that very clear - the meetings aren't going to run 12 hours unless you guys REALLY know how to talk.

I'd imagine more like 0.5-2 hours depending how productive they end up being.

I'm going to try and hold the first one later today but I need to find out when Vaeldriil will be free.

-Raesh

>Crap, out of town for the weekend and doubt I'll be around much.

That's not so bad. I'm in plat so I'll wait for posts to happen, then comment, or send something via email.

---

~Faih

So, I can't really clean up the log on my cruddy little netbook, but I'll give a short TL:DR for the meeting. Once someone posts it, though, definitely check out the log.

GM Raesh is going to be working on Bardic Pathways. The three planned are focusing on Performance, Loremaster, and Warriors. Unlike MM Sects, these pathways would not be reliant on circle, rather each pathway will be more centered on ranks in certain skills (which are still TBD). The pathways would offer things like titles, custom spell preps, and other such cosmetic things. However, that's only half of what will be involved.

You will be able to purchase feats of a less cosmetic nature. Essentially, it seemed like you'll get points based on ranks as you go, so (Purely theoretically) you might get one point for every 50 scholarship ranks that you can then use to purchase feats. However, belonging to one pathway will not make it impossible to learn a feat from another pathway, you'll just have to pay more than someone who is native to that pathway.

So, Raesh has asked us all to post our ideas for what these feats could be. Brainstorm away. Let other bards know to check out the boards if you come across them, not everyone reads here and the more input the better.

I'm not at home this weekend, but I'll repost the thing Ysselt and I wrote up a while ago for now. Once I get home, I'll join in the brainstorming with a vengeance.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZ73suhUTZfyZGZwZjN3OWRfMGZyanpwajZ4&hl=en


-=Issus=-

Oh, I'd also like a feat which grants us an additional song volume level called Excess, which adds in an additional Spell vs Stamina contest to all offensive enchantes from us performing it so loud to the point of it causing sound pressure trauma.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

Just a small note before we go TOO far down this path...

While there might be some active feats which let you do things you could not otherwise do, these will likely be the exception rather then the rule.

Feats are more likely to enhance existing features, rather then be entirely new features.

(So totally making up names here, the real ones will hopefully be less lame. Also don't worry about numbers or balance, that's also being hand waved here)

Frequent Screamer: Reduces scream downtimes by 25%
would be much more likely than:
Scream Taco: Lets you SCREAM TACO to summon a tasty taco.

-Raesh

The log I have is pretty long, but I posted it here:

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1Qm6Snb87Urs8gFX03WgrOl24J3lpZ7TeJGJoe3f9rkk&hl=en

Please let me know if that didn't work.

I'd like to see some hefty crafting feats somewhere also -- presumably in the loremaster path (although could possibly be its own path).

Being able to craft things 15% faster would be amazing, as would getting boosts to the various skills, and getting more out of enchantes like Muse's Inspiration for lower mana costs.

I can't think of what else there might be that's not a "new" crafting tacos feat, but perhaps some brainstorming with the crafting team is in order.

Here's my contribution to the brainstorming, since I doubt I'll be able to make any of the meetings (thanks for throwing one at 2pm though -- a time when I am not asleep!).

I have written up pretty much everything I could think of that I would want for the three pathways; the list includes some things others have already said that I like. I tried to keep it to "enhancing what we already have" rather than "new tacos," except where a new taco seemed really cool and necessary.

LOREMASTER

- Dual citizenship possible (good for Diplomats).
- Enhanced effectiveness of Muse's Inspiration, Faenella's Grace, and Aura of Tongues (e.g. mana song 10 plays like mana song 13). Or maybe pick and choose from all the noncombat enchantes.
- Faster crafting rate.
- Free access to all libraries and forges, free passage through all interprovincial barriers (coughSHARD).
- Lower requirements needed to learn languages; learn languages faster; able to learn more languages overall.
- Lower requirements to achieve recalls/perceive history.
- Lower requirements to read/invoke spell scrolls, lower mana requirement for keeping scrolls memorized.

WARRIOR

- Smaller mojo hit and faster recovery time for screams.
- Ability to regain mojo in combat.
- Enhanced effectiveness of Rage of the Clans, Naming of Tears, Resonance, and Harmony (e.g. mana song 10 plays like mana song 13). Or maybe pick and choose from all the combat enchantes.
- Faster startup time for all combat enchantes; ability to sacrifice stamina (or perhaps enchante power) for even faster startup.
- Enhanced bluff dodge.

PERFORMANCE

- Longer duration and smaller mojo hit for Playact.
- Access to "assistants" who act as a small vault that's available in every major Playact area (for storage of props); also able to wheel out big instruments like harpsichords.
- Larger voice range -- e.g., ability to choose either "soprano" or "mezzo-soprano" for a given song.
- Across the board minor boost in enchante effectiveness (i.e. mana song 10 plays like mana song 11).
- Boost to instrument skills/ability to move up the PLAY list faster (and therefore achieve soul-enhancing playing earlier).
- Better ability to weave enchantes with other bards; provide larger bonus when supporting another's performance.
- Enhanced effectiveness with warhorns.
- Enhanced bluff distract/amaze, ability to successfully pull off bluff dead sooner.
- Ability to achieve slips and voice throws sooner.
- Refill mojo faster.
- Free drinks everywhere.

For Loremasters...

Recall Scroll

A bard uses his or her renown recalling prowess to recall a particular spell scroll that they've come in contact with in the past. This enables the bard to remember how to cast the spell without actually having to reread a scroll. The bard must first REMEMBER a particular spell scroll in hand, which would also invoke the scroll, destroying it. This will set the recall slot to that particular spell scroll. Now, you can RECALL SCROLL at the cost of a hefty amount of mojo to remember the spell scroll at any given time; however, being that this ability drains so much mojo, it is wise to avoid using it in battle. The same minimum-mana-attunement rule applies. This ability will NOT prevent you from forgetting the spell; It will, however, be a nice way to re-learn the spell without having to track down another one of those pesky, expensive spell scrolls--at the cost of mojo, of course. How many spells you are able to remember depends on your Scholarship skill. You will also have the option to FORGET a spell scroll that you have remembered, should you desire to clear one of your remember slots.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

Here's my suggestion for Bardic Pathways...

Warrior Path:
No mechanical benefits.
That's right, none.
There's already enough benefits to being that combat focused, and since it's Songsworn it will already be the one everyone OOHs and AAHHHs and jumps to join.
I'd even go so far as to make this an extremely hard path for people to follow. Like, it comes with regular attacks by DP fanatics or something.
Other than that, give it cool combat-oriented verbs.

While I'm not so sure about automatically having DPs come and gank you - I would say it's "likely" Songsworn will be significantly harder to join than the other two paths for Bards.

-Raesh

>>As awesome as I think it would be to be one, I just don't want to see the lore cheapened by everyone who wants to be cool and can type .songsworn.

I believe you underestimate the depths of evil I am capable of.

That said, there is a careful line to be walked between respecting the lore and producing a playable and enjoyable game experience. I hope to be able to walk that line, but only time will tell.

-Raesh

Making it hard to join? Fine with me. Sending random DP attacks? That's cool, too. However, dwarfstabba, you lost me at no mechanical benefites. No reward is worth exactly zero risk. Additionally, I think you overestimate how many would take that path as their main path, not to mention how many bards there are to begin with. I know I sure as hell wouldn't reveal anything about the quest to someone who hasn't put in ten years in the guild, and I doubt many others that are still in would either. It's not like there are a hundred commoners waiting for the pathways to open for them to join the guild, you know?

But again, I'm cool with it being difficult. Looking forward to getting home on Thursday so I can add to the ideas already posted!


-=Issus=-

As a gateway to learning the pathways:

As a young bard in plat, I created my own "coming of age" quest and associated it with achieving circle 10. With all the lore and history behind this guild and with the fact that I was 'returning' to DR after a long absence and had a lot of things to discover. It occurs to me that this could be a good start to the pathways. So...

I RP'd that when I achieved circle 10, the Silvy gave me a quest. I was to travel to each province by foot or by boat, gain entry to all bard guilds and libraries (something that's not easy given a few of the secrets), spend time reading the tomes in the libraries to learn about the guild's history, learn what I could about the provinces and their people, etc. It wasn't a quest done in one sitting but in several with no time limits since the idea was to explore and learn. I took the time to look at items in the guilds as well to learn what they teach you. After that was done, I returned to Silvy and as a reward of the quest received a bardic spirit knot.

Since I was traveling anyway I did several other things. I visited Faenella, Murrula, and Idon altars/temples on the trip since that was my chosen of the 13 for favor orbs. I also made a point of purchasing and learning all the song scrolls. This meant there were breaks to hunt and get the coin to pay for the trip, scrolls, and items I found while traveling. I visited all the bard type stores in my travels as well.

The intent of the quest is to give the initiate a good base in the guild's lore and instill loyalty and an understanding of what it means to be a bard and went something like this... (I think logs I posted are still on plat's forums.)

Step one:
Ventured to Riverhaven where I had to find and gain access to the library there. It took me a while and I totally enjoyed that challenge. In that library, I found a story that was a huge impact on my character and defined the aspect I would worship.

Step two:
Crossed over to Lang and went to Theren. I'd learned so much in the library in Riverhaven that by this time I'd decided to visit every library I could find on my travels. Theren was on my way to Muspar'i so... Muspar'i is a wonder for any bard even if you can't access the recalls there yet.

Step three:
Went to Ratha where I checked out Faenella's temple as well as the available libraries and the guild and theatre. With what I had learned there and in Muspar'i, I had to go to Aesry to learn about and experience the singers of the Ru'atin Peri'el. I visited Murrula's and Idon's altar. At one point, I hired a boat to take me to Mer'Kresh so I could go to Deeper's Tavern for song scrolls.

Step four:
I went to Hib, the safe way where I spent a lot of time inside the guild and in Siryn's study. From there, I went to Shard through Raven's Point which is a wonderful place to get jumped or scared by a DP ;-).

Step five:
After Siryn's study and Raven's Point, the challenge to find the Shard guild with the reasons behind the secrecy really hits home.

Step six:
You go back to Crossing where the hidden library and the broken sword suddenly means all the more to you. Quest complete.

Now...this isn't necessarily the order I did this in but it's an order that makes sense to me. And I took my time to get the most out of it. When you set it up, you can give hints what to look for and have the guild leaders ask specific questions along the way. Some of the syntax puzzles in this quest were maddening.

If you can set it up where if you're anywhere close to the right syntax, you get hints it would be nice.

- The quest could be at level 5 or 10.
- Prior to the quest, your guild rank (not necessarily title) is initiate. After the quest, your guild rank is journeyman or journeywoman.
- Your name is added to the register as having achieved the rank.
- When Silvy recognizes you as having completed the quest, a messenger is sent to all bards in game to announce it. They can then choose to show up in the guild for your ceremony. Maybe allow them to be "poofed" there?
- As part of the ceremony, she tells you about the pathways and if you choose one then, the spirit knot you receive is a design indicative of that pathway and she tells you where to go to inquire. If you don't choose a pathway, you get your choice of spirit knot design that does not indicate a chosen pathway.
- After that, if you have not chosen a pathway, you can ask any guild leader about pathways to get the descriptions and directions again.

Side quests completed while I did this:
- I acquired and learned all scroll songs.
- I visited my chosen immortal's altars and temples.
- I visited every library I could get into along these paths to instill more history into the character.
- I collected multiple stories that I retold.
- I spent time in Horse Clan to learn from the items and descriptions there to give my character a nice background as a Wind Elf.

I'm not saying you have to do side quests but maybe make them available as an option and make them available as an option later. It's just that taking my time with the quest gave me those options.

Can also make it a quest you start at circle five with the intent that you can't complete it until circle ten?

---

~Faih

I think spreading out mojo feats between the three paths would be ideal so that everyone has a piece of the pie.

Songsworn
-Mojo restores by a minute amount with each solid+ hit you land in combat.
-Scream mojo drain is reduced.
-Ability which, when activated, restores a moderate amount of mojo. *Can be used in combat--Cool down time of 1 hour.

Performance
-Maximum mojo reserves increase.
-Playact mojo drain is reduced.
-Mojo restored from playing songs on an instrument increases significantly.

Loremaster
-Mojo restores by a minute amount with each enchante pulse.
-Mojo restores by an additional minute amount with each enchante pulse played on a physical instrument.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

Performance
-Make it harder to detect a VT

For the Songsworn, i think a mix of weapon/survival bonuses would best reflect the lore. If i was going for broke with suggestions, i'd also say a kind of capoeira-esque combat dance that bonused general combat while draining mojo. Just one.

Lorekeepers - I think one of the best things that can be done for them is to allow them access to ALL restricted areas (possibly even including thief - but not positive on this one). WM guild? done. MM sects? check. Elothean houses? them too. As icing on the cake, put recall/perceive histories back there that aren't available to non-Lorekeeper bards. Skills would be the non-musical lores, and magic.

Performers - All of the previous suggestions, better playact, better voice throws, better bluffs. I'd personally like to see them have 1 or 2 of the easier slips as well. Skills to focus on would be lores/survival (hide/steal).