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ROC slows the passive accrual of Suspicion (separate from Social Outrage) but does not stop it. It does nothing to my knowledge for actual SO. You will still reach 100% Suspicion within a relatively short period of time of being in any non-clan justice area, it merely extends that time.
Being known and seen in town aside, there are people who will go down lists of Necromancer names they've collected and blindly accuse them (because there is no drawback to doing this and failing repeatedly because they're not in town) on the off chance they're in a justice area. This is much less annoying than it used to be now that you must be in the same justice area as the person you're accusing, so there is no more getting dinged in Shard by someone in Theren, but it still gets you from time to time no matter how careful you are.
At the very least this locks us out of safely using most forges (and let's be honest, Lava Forge is totally the new belt knife and I won't be using it for that reason alone) as well as things like herb grinders on top of making doing work orders tedious, difficult, and dangerous. This is beyond the scope of hardmode and while I reiterate that I understand and agree with the justification behind it, I do wish more societies had been added to the game before this change had been made, or that a form of clan justice would have been implemented instead.
It also makes perfect sense that there might be workstations or crafting masters holed up somewhere in the boonies. Just think of the Rangers.
Thayet
Follow @thayelf on Twitter for absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever!
THAYET
ARCLIGHTOP
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls)
05/03/2015 03:33 PM CDT
I don't want to make a post arguing about the IC logic of this change, I just want to say as a long time player, please roll back this change until such time as you institute either more non justice crafting halls, or some other solution. There are a lot of things in the works to make things better, and I know you are all working hard on them, but please roll this back until they are released.
NINEVAH1
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls)
05/03/2015 03:34 PM CDT
>>"Non-justice crafting halls might be coming" If they are in fact coming, turn off justice until they are here, please. See my previous post about a month ago requesting minimalization of negative impact changes until alternative "in the works" are released.
People were abusing the fact that they were non-justice. I would rather they take care of the potential mech abuse issue over them leaving it in game just so crafting is easier for Necros. That's not a slam on Necros either.
>>At the very least this locks us out of safely using most forges (and let's be honest, Lava Forge is totally the new belt knife and I won't be using it for that reason alone)
Won't this be true for every non-justice Society? Seems like a silly reason to not use it to me.
People were abusing the fact that they were non-justice. I would rather they take care of the potential mech abuse issue over them leaving it in game just so crafting is easier for Necros. That's not a slam on Necros either.
>>At the very least this locks us out of safely using most forges (and let's be honest, Lava Forge is totally the new belt knife and I won't be using it for that reason alone)
Won't this be true for every non-justice Society? Seems like a silly reason to not use it to me.
DR-RAESH
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls)
05/03/2015 05:52 PM CDT
>Being known and seen in town aside, there are people who will go down lists of Necromancer names they've collected and blindly accuse them (because there is no drawback to doing this and failing repeatedly because they're not in town) on the off chance they're in a justice area.
Hmm.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Hmm.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
KUYKEND9
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls)
05/03/2015 08:20 PM CDT
>> Hmm.
What the heck does that mean? Does it mean he's wrong? Does it mean that he's pointed out a legitimate hole in the system and you're working on fixing it now?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
What the heck does that mean? Does it mean he's wrong? Does it mean that he's pointed out a legitimate hole in the system and you're working on fixing it now?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
DR-ANNWYL
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/03/2015 08:37 PM CDT
Find a way to express yourselves constructively. Thank you.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
DR-RAESH
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/03/2015 09:00 PM CDT
TOP DEFINITION
hmm
Something somebody says when they are thinking about what you have just said. They have an opinion.. but dont want to tell you what it is.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
hmm
Something somebody says when they are thinking about what you have just said. They have an opinion.. but dont want to tell you what it is.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
TEVESHSZAT
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls)
05/03/2015 09:54 PM CDT
>>What the heck does that mean? Does it mean he's wrong? Does it mean that he's pointed out a legitimate hole in the system and you're working on fixing it now?
If I had to scoop Raesh's brains out and scry with them, which would be a terrible idea because he needs those to code, I'd assume it means "hrm, that seems a bit unintentional, I wonder if there's a way to prevent people from calling wolf over and over on the off chance that they're actually correct due to dumb luck"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
If I had to scoop Raesh's brains out and scry with them, which would be a terrible idea because he needs those to code, I'd assume it means "hrm, that seems a bit unintentional, I wonder if there's a way to prevent people from calling wolf over and over on the off chance that they're actually correct due to dumb luck"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
KUYKEND9
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/03/2015 10:49 PM CDT
>> Something somebody says when they are thinking about what you have just said. They have an opinion.. but dont want to tell you what it is.
But he or she does want to make you aware that he or she has an opinion.
>> I'd assume it means "hrm, that seems a bit unintentional, I wonder if there's a way to prevent people from calling wolf over and over on the off chance that they're actually correct due to dumb luck"
Okay, see, that's constructive to the conversation. Is that true? I haven't accused someone of Necromancy in years, and I don't recall ever being terribly familiar with how it worked behind the scenes; if I accuse someone and they're not in a Justice zone, does the punishment mechanic for a false accuse never fire?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
But he or she does want to make you aware that he or she has an opinion.
>> I'd assume it means "hrm, that seems a bit unintentional, I wonder if there's a way to prevent people from calling wolf over and over on the off chance that they're actually correct due to dumb luck"
Okay, see, that's constructive to the conversation. Is that true? I haven't accused someone of Necromancy in years, and I don't recall ever being terribly familiar with how it worked behind the scenes; if I accuse someone and they're not in a Justice zone, does the punishment mechanic for a false accuse never fire?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
ASHBOMB
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/04/2015 01:23 AM CDT
It just tells you "so and so isn't even in town"
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
KUYKEND9
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/04/2015 11:41 AM CDT
>> It just tells you "so and so isn't even in town"
Hmm.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
Hmm.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
KUYKEND9
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/04/2015 11:51 AM CDT
>> It just tells you "so and so isn't even in town"
Real talk though, that's a conundrum. And it makes me wonder if the false-accuse mechanic is specific to a name, or operates across the board. By that I mean, if I accuse Bob (he's in town, but I fail) and then I accuse Frank (he's in town, but I fail) and then I accuse Harry (he's in town, but I fail) would that have the same effect as me accusing Bob and failing three times? I'm guessing it doesn't, but should it? It really does appear that the behavior of going down the list of known necromancers and accusing them once each is at least a little problematic, but I can't see a clear way to make it abuse-proof. I mean... I guess you could maybe have the too-many-false-accuses mechs fire before the town check... but then if the Necro just ran out of town in the time it took you to find a guard, you'd be getting punished for nothing. Maybe have the whole calculation happen on every accuse, before checking if they're in justice, and base the results on that. If you accuse someone who is guilty, and they're not in town, you just get the "so and so isn't even in town" message. If you accuse someone who is not guilty, and they're out of town, you get the same message but it counts as a false accuse for you. I don't know exacts on how many false accuses it takes for you to get fined, but using assumed numbers, if it takes 3 false accusations against one person to get a fine, maybe make it take 5 false accusations against any person to also get you a fine? (If this is already similar to how it works, cool.) And then obviously additional accuses cause additional fines. That might cut down on the number of people who are just running .accuse and fingering every person on their highlights list.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
Real talk though, that's a conundrum. And it makes me wonder if the false-accuse mechanic is specific to a name, or operates across the board. By that I mean, if I accuse Bob (he's in town, but I fail) and then I accuse Frank (he's in town, but I fail) and then I accuse Harry (he's in town, but I fail) would that have the same effect as me accusing Bob and failing three times? I'm guessing it doesn't, but should it? It really does appear that the behavior of going down the list of known necromancers and accusing them once each is at least a little problematic, but I can't see a clear way to make it abuse-proof. I mean... I guess you could maybe have the too-many-false-accuses mechs fire before the town check... but then if the Necro just ran out of town in the time it took you to find a guard, you'd be getting punished for nothing. Maybe have the whole calculation happen on every accuse, before checking if they're in justice, and base the results on that. If you accuse someone who is guilty, and they're not in town, you just get the "so and so isn't even in town" message. If you accuse someone who is not guilty, and they're out of town, you get the same message but it counts as a false accuse for you. I don't know exacts on how many false accuses it takes for you to get fined, but using assumed numbers, if it takes 3 false accusations against one person to get a fine, maybe make it take 5 false accusations against any person to also get you a fine? (If this is already similar to how it works, cool.) And then obviously additional accuses cause additional fines. That might cut down on the number of people who are just running .accuse and fingering every person on their highlights list.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
THAYET
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/04/2015 12:46 PM CDT
False accusations get two strikes. So:
1. I accuse Bob. The accusation is found false for whatever reason.
2. I wait 10(ish) minutes, because I can't accuse anyone else who is in the justice area for a little bit if I do trigger the false accusation mechanic.
3. I accuse Jane. It has been less than an hour(ish) since my last accusation. This accusation is found false as well and I am arrested.
This is different if the person is out of town. In that case I get the messaging about them not being in the city, even if I'm still within that 10 minute downtime from the first false accusation. It doesn't matter how many times I spam this, there is no drawback or limitation on attempting it. You could, if you were so inclined, write a script to follow a guard around and accuse a list of names repeatedly on the off chance one of them steps foot in a justice area. Nobody I know of goes that far, but at the very least it allows the aforementioned scenario of compiling a list and throwing it at the wall to see what sticks now and then. This is less painful now that justice areas are no longer linked for accuse, but blind accusations are still annoying.
Thayet
Follow @thayelf on Twitter for absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever!
1. I accuse Bob. The accusation is found false for whatever reason.
2. I wait 10(ish) minutes, because I can't accuse anyone else who is in the justice area for a little bit if I do trigger the false accusation mechanic.
3. I accuse Jane. It has been less than an hour(ish) since my last accusation. This accusation is found false as well and I am arrested.
This is different if the person is out of town. In that case I get the messaging about them not being in the city, even if I'm still within that 10 minute downtime from the first false accusation. It doesn't matter how many times I spam this, there is no drawback or limitation on attempting it. You could, if you were so inclined, write a script to follow a guard around and accuse a list of names repeatedly on the off chance one of them steps foot in a justice area. Nobody I know of goes that far, but at the very least it allows the aforementioned scenario of compiling a list and throwing it at the wall to see what sticks now and then. This is less painful now that justice areas are no longer linked for accuse, but blind accusations are still annoying.
Thayet
Follow @thayelf on Twitter for absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever!
TEVESHSZAT
Re: And Justice for All (Crafting Halls) ::Nudge::
05/04/2015 07:03 PM CDT
>>You could, if you were so inclined, write a script to follow a guard around and accuse a list of names repeatedly on the off chance one of them steps foot in a justice area.
I don't think you need to even be near a guard anymore for this, right?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I don't think you need to even be near a guard anymore for this, right?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
