Previous
I was just messing around in Test...
I have 99 disc, 1050 hiding, and khris on - but, someone with 580 perception could see me load and was alert and pointed me when I tried to snipe...
I seriously hope this is some sort of bug...
PUCKTIN
VEE-REX
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:01 PM CST
Personally I'd like there to be a rare/tiny/microscopic/whatever chance for anyone to be spotted while performing a stealth action, just like how anyone can miss or be hit in regular combat. Buuuut I imagine anything negative to stealth won't be received well by the stealthy crowds.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
REWYN
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:24 PM CST
As the quintessential non stealthy crowd, I think stealth being strictly left to the contest without a minimum failure chance is fine. I think stealth is going to receive a kick in the pants at the moment, the actual ATTACKS out of stealth still suffer a minimum failure chance, so if the stealth action to establish/manuever in stealth had a minimum failure % AND the stealth maneuver, that feels like a double penalty.
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:25 PM CST
Vinjince... It's already possible for someone with 500 fewer ranks of perception than I have stealth to search me out with buffs and watch--in prime, not even test. At some point you have to acknowledge that it's really unfair to stealth users to keep asking for more concessions. Seriously. Come on. No other skill contest in the game is this lopsided. Come on. Srsly.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
DR-KODIUS
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:36 PM CST
I spent more than 3 hours testing stealth Prime vs Test, and found no differences. I also had folks test it last week and they too found no issues. If you can find me a repeatable scenario you feel is inaccurate, please post here so I can view it first hand and see what might be wrong.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
VEE-REX
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:45 PM CST
>>Vinjince... It's already possible for someone with 500 fewer ranks of perception than I have stealth to search me out with buffs and watch--in prime, not even test. At some point you have to acknowledge that it's really unfair to stealth users to keep asking for more concessions. Seriously. Come on. No other skill contest in the game is this lopsided. Come on. Srsly.
You said it... Watch. Remember, Watch is a bandaid that was put in place for a pretty good reason.
Anyway, I'm all for Watch getting the axe and being completely done away with. I'm also against having a defensive penalty applied to people using stealth since it doesn't help the actual issue at all. The actual issues I have with stealth are minor and I went over them a million times. I'll wait until (if) Watch is smashed and people really start to see what I'm talking about before getting into them. Watch is just being what it is right now - a bandaid.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
You said it... Watch. Remember, Watch is a bandaid that was put in place for a pretty good reason.
Anyway, I'm all for Watch getting the axe and being completely done away with. I'm also against having a defensive penalty applied to people using stealth since it doesn't help the actual issue at all. The actual issues I have with stealth are minor and I went over them a million times. I'll wait until (if) Watch is smashed and people really start to see what I'm talking about before getting into them. Watch is just being what it is right now - a bandaid.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
CUTHALION
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:45 PM CST
Are you talking about the stealth vs. perception contests in general, or all abilities related to stealth?
I'm referring specifically to the Thief ambushes here and the "armstab" phenomenon in test.
I'm referring specifically to the Thief ambushes here and the "armstab" phenomenon in test.
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:54 PM CST
Kodius, it definitely needs to be looked at in realtime. Some weird things have been happening.
I've been saying that stealth itself isn't the problem. The problem is that the bonuses can get really absurd, which makes it seem like the skill is absurd. It's putting a 20% buff on 1k hiding, plus a CJ, plus shadows from a conveniently located mm... That is a problem.
Aside from that, the difference between hiding at missile range and at pole range in pvp is about 400 ranks. Someone with 500 fewer ranks can see me loading a bow at melee without watch up. So yeah, I feel pretty strongly that too many concessions with the skill itself have already been made. But the buff issue, that I am absolutely in favor of fixing.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
I've been saying that stealth itself isn't the problem. The problem is that the bonuses can get really absurd, which makes it seem like the skill is absurd. It's putting a 20% buff on 1k hiding, plus a CJ, plus shadows from a conveniently located mm... That is a problem.
Aside from that, the difference between hiding at missile range and at pole range in pvp is about 400 ranks. Someone with 500 fewer ranks can see me loading a bow at melee without watch up. So yeah, I feel pretty strongly that too many concessions with the skill itself have already been made. But the buff issue, that I am absolutely in favor of fixing.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/08/2012 11:55 PM CST
Also I really wish people would separate the "abilities related to stealth" from stealth itself. Backstab, snipe, etc. are not the same thing as the stealth skill, so deal with them on their own.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
YAMCER
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 12:01 AM CST
<<I spent more than 3 hours testing stealth Prime vs Test, and found no differences. I also had folks test it last week and they too found no issues. If you can find me a repeatable scenario you feel is inaccurate, please post here so I can view it first hand and see what might be wrong.>>
>mark all zeal
You carefully size up the Dragon Priest zealot, gauging its overall perception.
As you consider stealing from the Dragon Priest zealot, you believe it's about even odds.
You also eye the Dragon Priest zealot over, trying to discern how much wealth it is carrying.
As you consider hiding around the Dragon Priest zealot, you believe it shouldn't catch you.
As you consider an attempt to stalk the Dragon Priest zealot, you believe it shouldn't catch you.
As you consider a stealthy assault on the Dragon Priest zealot, it should be possible.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>ambu sight
Carefully, you manuever to the side of the Dragon Priest zealot, and then reveal yourself, throwing a handful of dirt straight at its face!
As your cloud of dirt expands, the Dragon Priest zealot manages to sidestep out of the way!
The dirt cloud sails on further, dissipating into tiny brown specks which glide back down to the ground.
You take advantage of the Dragon Priest zealot's situation and try to slip back into a hiding place.
You are convinced that your vanishing went unobserved.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
>ambu clout
Quietly, you raise your left hand up to your side, and in a single, fluid movement chop straight at the Dragon Priest zealot's neck!
The Dragon Priest zealot is completely surprised by your stealthy maneuver!
The Dragon Priest zealot manages to evade your precise strike, leaping nimbly out of the way!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>snipe
The Dragon Priest zealot notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your forester's crossbow!
The Dragon Priest zealot discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a silver-edged quadrello at a Dragon Priest zealot. A Dragon Priest zealot evades.
The silver-edged quadrello hits a wall and falls to the floor!
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in better position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
>mark all zeal
You carefully size up the Dragon Priest zealot, gauging its overall perception.
As you consider stealing from the Dragon Priest zealot, you believe it's about even odds.
You also eye the Dragon Priest zealot over, trying to discern how much wealth it is carrying.
As you consider hiding around the Dragon Priest zealot, you believe it shouldn't catch you.
As you consider an attempt to stalk the Dragon Priest zealot, you believe it shouldn't catch you.
As you consider a stealthy assault on the Dragon Priest zealot, it should be possible.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>ambu sight
Carefully, you manuever to the side of the Dragon Priest zealot, and then reveal yourself, throwing a handful of dirt straight at its face!
As your cloud of dirt expands, the Dragon Priest zealot manages to sidestep out of the way!
The dirt cloud sails on further, dissipating into tiny brown specks which glide back down to the ground.
You take advantage of the Dragon Priest zealot's situation and try to slip back into a hiding place.
You are convinced that your vanishing went unobserved.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
>ambu clout
Quietly, you raise your left hand up to your side, and in a single, fluid movement chop straight at the Dragon Priest zealot's neck!
The Dragon Priest zealot is completely surprised by your stealthy maneuver!
The Dragon Priest zealot manages to evade your precise strike, leaping nimbly out of the way!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>snipe
The Dragon Priest zealot notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your forester's crossbow!
The Dragon Priest zealot discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a silver-edged quadrello at a Dragon Priest zealot. A Dragon Priest zealot evades.
The silver-edged quadrello hits a wall and falls to the floor!
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in better position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 12:07 AM CST
Triple post, sorry... Kodius one scenario that is definitely repeatable is comparing adults in prime to adults in test. Adults in prime spot me hiding maybe 1 in 500 times. Adults in test seems more like 1 in 5. Made up numbers, but that has definitely changed. That may be more about perception than stealth, or just the dillos themselves having changed.
Also, is disc functioning properly? Because I keep hearing people saying that disc/agil/ref aren't doing anything for them, and I've seen that to be true with agil/ref.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
Also, is disc functioning properly? Because I keep hearing people saying that disc/agil/ref aren't doing anything for them, and I've seen that to be true with agil/ref.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
VEE-REX
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 12:07 AM CST
>>I've been saying that stealth itself isn't the problem. The problem is that the bonuses can get really absurd, which makes it seem like the skill is absurd. It's putting a 20% buff on 1k hiding, plus a CJ, plus shadows from a conveniently located mm... That is a problem.
With Watch and the perception bonus to hiding at melee in the mix, I think the buffs actually go against stealth. I do know Zeyurn said that if we were to eliminate the perception penalty vs. missile ranged hiding we would also have to eliminate the bonus gained to perception against melee hiding.
Either way doesn't matter to me. I'd like to see Watch get destroyed, and that's my only concern in regards to buffs.
I think Stealth is just too fast right now. In Test, everyone has been standing in one room firing off at each other and taking awhile to kill each other. No one has really played the 'hide-n-seek' PvP game that any real PvP'er know the game is about. Weapon RTs, damage, vitality, armor, spell difficulty, etc... have all been tweaked to effectively slow down combat, whereas people can still sneak around in 1 sec and hide in 2, not to mention the effects of invisibility.
Again, I'm just looking at the scenario after all these possible stealth bugs are fixed and with the deletion of Watch, not as it is right now. And it is premature to argue about it so I will just leave it where I did, and reassure anyone stealth-pro that they're better off with a couple tweaks w/o Watch, rather than w/o the tweaks and leaving Watch as it is.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
With Watch and the perception bonus to hiding at melee in the mix, I think the buffs actually go against stealth. I do know Zeyurn said that if we were to eliminate the perception penalty vs. missile ranged hiding we would also have to eliminate the bonus gained to perception against melee hiding.
Either way doesn't matter to me. I'd like to see Watch get destroyed, and that's my only concern in regards to buffs.
I think Stealth is just too fast right now. In Test, everyone has been standing in one room firing off at each other and taking awhile to kill each other. No one has really played the 'hide-n-seek' PvP game that any real PvP'er know the game is about. Weapon RTs, damage, vitality, armor, spell difficulty, etc... have all been tweaked to effectively slow down combat, whereas people can still sneak around in 1 sec and hide in 2, not to mention the effects of invisibility.
Again, I'm just looking at the scenario after all these possible stealth bugs are fixed and with the deletion of Watch, not as it is right now. And it is premature to argue about it so I will just leave it where I did, and reassure anyone stealth-pro that they're better off with a couple tweaks w/o Watch, rather than w/o the tweaks and leaving Watch as it is.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
VEE-REX
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 12:10 AM CST
>>Also, is disc functioning properly? Because I keep hearing people saying that disc/agil/ref aren't doing anything for them, and I've seen that to be true with agil/ref.
Stats really seem to not be doing nearly as much as they used to. I just compared 50 Str vs. 117 Str and didn't notice hardly any kind of difference. So the discipline stat could be part of the problem.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Stats really seem to not be doing nearly as much as they used to. I just compared 50 Str vs. 117 Str and didn't notice hardly any kind of difference. So the discipline stat could be part of the problem.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 12:37 AM CST
Vinj let's do some real hide-n-seek pvp in test and see what's what.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
MOCKERJB
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 12:40 AM CST
Kodius: Poaching in Prime vs Test below. As E noted, the Test armadillos are considerably more adept at spotting me poach. Yamcer's clip also shows us getting spotted in situations that we otherwise wouldn't. I don't ever get spotted poaching by elders in prime, but I get spotted pretty regularly in Test.
Five shots from each instance below, same spells (though capped at different mana obviously), same routine--load, aim, hide, stalk, poach, repeat. Four elders at melee in both instances. The only armor on is a small garg shield, arm worn, MM guild. The things that come to mind, if stealth calcs are the same, is a change to effective shield stealth hindrance, something related to a change in stat bonuses, or a differential between Shadows' strength in Prime and Test that is so huge is causes this much difference.
PRIME:
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo barely blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that rips the armadillo's right leg off at the knee with a dead-center blow to the kneecap.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The sleek quadrello falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced and in superior position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo barely blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands a devastating hit (17/22) that drives the sleek quadrello under the sternum to pierce the heart.
The sleek quadrello lodges itself savagely into the desert armadillo!
An elder desert armadillo falls over and, after a couple of spasms, is still.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo partially blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that blasts clean through the right leg with a well-placed swing that throws blood and bone splinters everywhere.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The sleek quadrello falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo partially blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that leaves it with a short bloody stump of a left leg.
The sleek quadrello lodges itself deeply into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo partially blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that rips the left leg from the hip socket, making a wet popping sound.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The sleek quadrello falls to the ground!
An elder desert armadillo falls over and, after a couple of spasms, is still.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
TEST:
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo barely fails to block with plated hide.
The quadrello lands a heavy strike (7/22) that imbeds the shadowy arsenic quadrello into the top of the armadillo's left foot.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in better position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo attempts to evade.
The quadrello lands a heavy strike (7/22) that barely pierces the skin to nick the chest.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo fails to block with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands a heavy strike (7/22) that scratches a long swath of skin along the abdomen (A fine wound to show to friends!), lightly stunning it.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo fails to dodge.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that stabs the fleshy portion of the right arm, lightly stunning it.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You get the idea. I was actually searched out on my last poaching attempt in Test; I can't remember the last time an elder searched me out.
Five shots from each instance below, same spells (though capped at different mana obviously), same routine--load, aim, hide, stalk, poach, repeat. Four elders at melee in both instances. The only armor on is a small garg shield, arm worn, MM guild. The things that come to mind, if stealth calcs are the same, is a change to effective shield stealth hindrance, something related to a change in stat bonuses, or a differential between Shadows' strength in Prime and Test that is so huge is causes this much difference.
PRIME:
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo barely blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that rips the armadillo's right leg off at the knee with a dead-center blow to the kneecap.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The sleek quadrello falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced and in superior position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo barely blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands a devastating hit (17/22) that drives the sleek quadrello under the sternum to pierce the heart.
The sleek quadrello lodges itself savagely into the desert armadillo!
An elder desert armadillo falls over and, after a couple of spasms, is still.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo partially blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that blasts clean through the right leg with a well-placed swing that throws blood and bone splinters everywhere.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The sleek quadrello falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo partially blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that leaves it with a short bloody stump of a left leg.
The sleek quadrello lodges itself deeply into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You fire a sleek quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo partially blocks with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that rips the left leg from the hip socket, making a wet popping sound.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The sleek quadrello falls to the ground!
An elder desert armadillo falls over and, after a couple of spasms, is still.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
TEST:
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo barely fails to block with plated hide.
The quadrello lands a heavy strike (7/22) that imbeds the shadowy arsenic quadrello into the top of the armadillo's left foot.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in better position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo attempts to evade.
The quadrello lands a heavy strike (7/22) that barely pierces the skin to nick the chest.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo fails to block with its plated hide.
The quadrello lands a heavy strike (7/22) that scratches a long swath of skin along the abdomen (A fine wound to show to friends!), lightly stunning it.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
Just as you move to fire, The desert armadillo notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a shadowy arsenic quadrello at an elder desert armadillo. An elder desert armadillo fails to dodge.
The quadrello lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that stabs the fleshy portion of the right arm, lightly stunning it.
The shadowy arsenic quadrello lodges itself shallowly into the desert armadillo!
[You're solidly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You get the idea. I was actually searched out on my last poaching attempt in Test; I can't remember the last time an elder searched me out.
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 01:14 AM CST
Snipe and poach are looking the same way for me as E, and Traim posted. With my character it's 690s stealth, 540s bow, 70 disc in headsplitters. In Prime I'm using a mixed leather/LC armor setup with khri skulk, and I never have any problems getting a successful poach/snipe/backstab. In Test though I've switched to just leather armor, using the same buffs, and I can barely stay in hiding long enough to get a shot off (much less full aim), and when I do I usually fail the perception check, and end up missing the shot completely the majority of the time. I can stand at melee with a shield on with my bow though and hit them with snap shots without using stealth. I even tried stepping down to maulers, and had better success, but nothing comparable to Prime.
I'll try to hop into Test some tomorrow, and see if you are around to watch.
I'll try to hop into Test some tomorrow, and see if you are around to watch.
VEE-REX
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 01:37 AM CST
Perhaps critter perception is out of whack? Or it could be perception in general, and that could be why Kodius didn't see anything if he looked into the hiding side of things.
I'm willing to test with anyone, just hit me up. Maybe perception across the board is getting some kind of weird bonus somehow.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I'm willing to test with anyone, just hit me up. Maybe perception across the board is getting some kind of weird bonus somehow.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
REASONMJ
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 01:52 AM CST
>>With my character it's 690s stealth, 540s bow, 70 disc in headsplitters. In Prime I'm using a mixed leather/LC armor setup with khri skulk, and I never have any problems getting a successful poach/snipe/backstab. In Test though I've switched to just leather armor, using the same buffs, and I can barely stay in hiding long enough to get a shot off (much less full aim), and when I do I usually fail the perception check, and end up missing the shot completely the majority of the time.
With more stealth skill and discipline than you, but zero buffs, I can almost never stay hidden long enough against headsplitters to get a shot off, when wearing only Leather armor (on Live servers). The last time I checked on Test it was about the same, but that was over a week ago and may be outdated info.
Could it be an issue with your buffs being nerfed? Maybe try testing on live and test without using buffs in either case?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
With more stealth skill and discipline than you, but zero buffs, I can almost never stay hidden long enough against headsplitters to get a shot off, when wearing only Leather armor (on Live servers). The last time I checked on Test it was about the same, but that was over a week ago and may be outdated info.
Could it be an issue with your buffs being nerfed? Maybe try testing on live and test without using buffs in either case?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 02:24 AM CST
I wonder if the calculations are right but the messaging went stupid.
From Mocker's log, it doesn't look like the shots missed or did worse on average, so maybe they're not seeing him but the messaging says they are?
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
From Mocker's log, it doesn't look like the shots missed or did worse on average, so maybe they're not seeing him but the messaging says they are?
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
PUCKTEN
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 08:11 AM CST
>>I spent more than 3 hours testing stealth Prime vs Test, and found no differences. I also had folks test it last week and they too found no issues. If you can find me a repeatable scenario >>you feel is inaccurate, please post here so I can view it first hand and see what might be wrong.
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
R>
The Xala'shar thrall closes to pole weapon range on Rheeni.
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your moving to fire went unobserved.
< You attack a basilisk head arrow at a Xala'shar thrall. A Xala'shar thrall fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a powerful strike (10/22) that lightly scratches the thrall's left leg.
The basilisk head arrow lodges itself shallowly into the Xala'shar thrall!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage (0).]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
HR>
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with your last basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your moving to fire went unobserved.
< You attack a basilisk head arrow at a Xala'shar thrall. A Xala'shar thrall fails to evade.
The arrow lands a spine-rattling strike (16/22) that drives the basilisk head arrow under the thrall's sternum to explode its heart.
The basilisk head arrow lodges itself savagely into the Xala'shar thrall!
A Xala'shar thrall crumples to the ground with a tearful wail of agony and begins fruitlessly tugging at its blood-stained robes before growing still with a sputtering cry.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H>
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with a message arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
H>
With pathetic timing, a Xala'shar thrall lunges a rusted dagger at Warbrolus. Warbrolus evades.
H>
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with your last message arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
From your hiding place you say, "That's sick you can see me."
Rheeni says, "I'm not sure i'm supposed to."
From your hiding place you say, "1040 hiding."
Rheeni asks, "580 perception?"
Rheeni asks, "Warb can you see him too?"
Warbrolus shakes his head.
H> snipe rheeni
Rheeni notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your copperwood longbow!
Rheeni discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a basilisk head arrow at Rheeni. Rheeni attempts to evade.
The arrow lands a strong hit (6/22) to Rheeni's back.
The basilisk head arrow lodges itself shallowly into Rheeni!
[You're solidly balanced and opponent has slight advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
R>
The Xala'shar thrall closes to pole weapon range on Rheeni.
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your moving to fire went unobserved.
< You attack a basilisk head arrow at a Xala'shar thrall. A Xala'shar thrall fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a powerful strike (10/22) that lightly scratches the thrall's left leg.
The basilisk head arrow lodges itself shallowly into the Xala'shar thrall!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage (0).]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
HR>
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with your last basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your moving to fire went unobserved.
< You attack a basilisk head arrow at a Xala'shar thrall. A Xala'shar thrall fails to evade.
The arrow lands a spine-rattling strike (16/22) that drives the basilisk head arrow under the thrall's sternum to explode its heart.
The basilisk head arrow lodges itself savagely into the Xala'shar thrall!
A Xala'shar thrall crumples to the ground with a tearful wail of agony and begins fruitlessly tugging at its blood-stained robes before growing still with a sputtering cry.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H>
H> load
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with a message arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
H>
With pathetic timing, a Xala'shar thrall lunges a rusted dagger at Warbrolus. Warbrolus evades.
H>
You see Rheeni glance at you as you load your copperwood longbow.
You remain hidden in the background, but suspect your efforts drew attention to yourself.
You reach into your quiver to load the copperwood longbow with your last message arrow.
Roundtime 4 sec.
From your hiding place you say, "That's sick you can see me."
Rheeni says, "I'm not sure i'm supposed to."
From your hiding place you say, "1040 hiding."
Rheeni asks, "580 perception?"
Rheeni asks, "Warb can you see him too?"
Warbrolus shakes his head.
H> snipe rheeni
Rheeni notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your copperwood longbow!
Rheeni discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a basilisk head arrow at Rheeni. Rheeni attempts to evade.
The arrow lands a strong hit (6/22) to Rheeni's back.
The basilisk head arrow lodges itself shallowly into Rheeni!
[You're solidly balanced and opponent has slight advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
PUCKTEN
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 08:13 AM CST
I sure hope you see this as inaccurate... I sure do.
If you need me to log in test and play again, so you can see what's going on - I'll be happy to.
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 08:41 AM CST
>>Could it be an issue with your buffs being nerfed? Maybe try testing on live and test without using buffs in either case?
Very possible. I can't really train stealth in splitters in Prime without my full stealth buffs. I don't think that khris were nerfed though so skulk might be broken the opposite way that spar was since one buffed hiding, and the other buffed stalking. It's not just Thieves noticing the problem though, so it might be perception as Vin noted too.
It's been about a week since I've done any testing with players, but I noticed that players were spotting me load my bow in hiding when they shouldn't, and also getting random 4-6 second loadtimes with a Nisha bow like I was getting some kind of penalty for loading in hiding (Thieves do not get one).
I'm not sure where the problem is, but for a system that has been said it hasn't been touched, it is not acting anywhere close to the same between Live and Test servers. I'll be in Test some today though, and hopefully I can get something more concrete.
Very possible. I can't really train stealth in splitters in Prime without my full stealth buffs. I don't think that khris were nerfed though so skulk might be broken the opposite way that spar was since one buffed hiding, and the other buffed stalking. It's not just Thieves noticing the problem though, so it might be perception as Vin noted too.
It's been about a week since I've done any testing with players, but I noticed that players were spotting me load my bow in hiding when they shouldn't, and also getting random 4-6 second loadtimes with a Nisha bow like I was getting some kind of penalty for loading in hiding (Thieves do not get one).
I'm not sure where the problem is, but for a system that has been said it hasn't been touched, it is not acting anywhere close to the same between Live and Test servers. I'll be in Test some today though, and hopefully I can get something more concrete.
ZEYPHAN
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 08:50 AM CST
I noticed a bug in test where khri combos weren't activating. Cunning and safe do not work. Speed works some of the time. I think I tried skulk and it was working but it's possible you're not getting the full combo bonus especially if you're putting the khri up individually instead of using the combo initially. You'd know because it wouldn't message that skulk activated and wouldn't show in your khri check.
Not saying this is the problem, just want to make sure skulk is activating properly.
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
Not saying this is the problem, just want to make sure skulk is activating properly.
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 09:01 AM CST
>>If you can find me a repeatable scenario you feel is inaccurate, please post here so I can view it first hand and see what might be wrong.
I was going to show you the hiding issue I was seeing in test.
Quick test I just did.
4 assassins at melee, same armor setup, 20 hides in a row.
TEST:
7 fails, 13 successes. Successful hides I get pointed out right away, most of the time before the 3 sec RT is up
PRIME:
1 fail, 19 successes. Successful hides I get pointed out alot right away, sometimes before the 3 sec RT is up, sometimes I stay hidden long enough for them to start retreating.
maybe it's top-end issue? There is definately a difference for me.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
I was going to show you the hiding issue I was seeing in test.
Quick test I just did.
4 assassins at melee, same armor setup, 20 hides in a row.
TEST:
7 fails, 13 successes. Successful hides I get pointed out right away, most of the time before the 3 sec RT is up
PRIME:
1 fail, 19 successes. Successful hides I get pointed out alot right away, sometimes before the 3 sec RT is up, sometimes I stay hidden long enough for them to start retreating.
maybe it's top-end issue? There is definately a difference for me.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 09:45 AM CST
One of the questions I would like answered, that would help testing is:
"What is supposed to be the Rank to Rank Base Challenge"?
For example, I would think that hiding at pole range should be the 1:1 challenge.
Everything from there would scale from there.
I think part of the problem is none of know what the baseline is supposed to be. It would be nice to hear a GM chime in, on where the baseline is and then give us a scale of activities from easiest (favors hider) to hardest (favors watcher) that would look something like this:
+ hiding out of combat
+ hiding at missile
+ loading / slip out of combat
+ hiding at pole
+ advancing from missile to pole
+ loading / slip at pole
+ poach / snipe at missile
etc
Also, I agree with Vin that watch was a bandaid and needs to be sent to the equine cemetery.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
"What is supposed to be the Rank to Rank Base Challenge"?
For example, I would think that hiding at pole range should be the 1:1 challenge.
Everything from there would scale from there.
I think part of the problem is none of know what the baseline is supposed to be. It would be nice to hear a GM chime in, on where the baseline is and then give us a scale of activities from easiest (favors hider) to hardest (favors watcher) that would look something like this:
+ hiding out of combat
+ hiding at missile
+ loading / slip out of combat
+ hiding at pole
+ advancing from missile to pole
+ loading / slip at pole
+ poach / snipe at missile
etc
Also, I agree with Vin that watch was a bandaid and needs to be sent to the equine cemetery.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
NINEVAH1
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 11:26 AM CST
Ok, just did a little bit of testing again with stealth in headsplitters, and I have some ideas at least to what might be happening.
I think it is what Vin said and the problem is with perception. I think the contest of perception to actions while in stealth is the problem.
First my skills/stats/and other things that matter.
Stealth: 704 41.76%
Bows: 540 06.59%
Strength : 50 + Reflex : 75 +
Agility : 70 + Charisma : 35
Discipline : 70 + Wisdom : 45
Intelligence : 45 Stamina : 50
> khri check
You are under the influence of the Plunder meditation, which should last around 7 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Shadowstep meditation, which should last around 6 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Dampen meditation, which should last around 7 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Darken meditation, which should last around 7 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Focus meditation, which should last around 8 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Elusion meditation, which should last around 3 roisaen.
You feel at home skulking in shadow, which will vanish when any pillar supporting it does.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently insignificantly hindered and your stealth is minimally hindered.
Through all my testing I did not get pointed out once while not taking any actions. As soon as I took an action (attack, load) I would fail the perception check.
Here is some shots that I took:
H> snipe
The zombie mauler notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie mauler discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler fails to dodge.
The arrow lands an extremely heavy (10/23) hit that lodges the golden arrow firmly in the mauler's right cheek.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie mauler!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
HR> snipe
The zombie mauler notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie mauler discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a massive (12/23) strike that rips the the bicep from the mauler's right arm to expose slimy wet bone.
The golden arrow lodges itself firmly into the zombie mauler!
[You're solidly balanced and opponent has slight advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> poach
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a powerful (11/23) strike that lodges golden arrow in the mauler's right shoulder to rip the arm free.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The golden arrow falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You think you have your best shot possible now.
H> snipe
The zombie mauler notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie mauler discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler attempts to evade.
The arrow lands an awesome (13/23) strike that rips the mauler's spinal cord from its body with a gooey wet slash.
The golden arrow lodges itself savagely into the zombie mauler!
A zombie mauler falls belly-up and grunts its last grunt.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You think you have your best shot possible now.
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter attempts to dodge.
The arrow lands a very heavy (9/23) hit that stabs deeply into the head-splitt left arm.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> poach
Just as you move to fire, The zombie head-splitter notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter evades.
The golden arrow lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a very heavy (9/23) hit that raises a long swath of smelly green goo along the head-splitt abdomen.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter fails to evade.
The arrow lands a heavy (8/23) strike to the head-splitt right leg.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter attempts to dodge.
The arrow lands a very heavy (9/23) hit that rips away the abdomen to expose putrefied intestines.
The golden arrow lodges itself deeply into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You close to melee range on a zombie head-splitter.
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter evades.
The golden arrow lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter evades.
The golden arrow lands nearby!
[You're hurt, solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
I didn't make a single successful snipe even against maulers who I was able to easily hide and snipe on over 100 ranks ago. What really is worrisome to me is this though:
HR> loa
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to load your Nisha short bow while remaining hidden!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You reach into your quiver to load the Nisha short bow with a golden arrow.
Roundtime 6 sec.
HR> loa
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to load your Nisha short bow while remaining hidden!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the Nisha short bow with a golden arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 5 sec.
I have never seen anything like this in Prime. I had no shield on so I have no idea why my RTs would be raised while loading, even if I failed the perception check (which I never have before when hunting at level).
So to recap, stealth it's self seems to be ok at least for me. It is the stealth actions that seem to be having problems.
I think it is what Vin said and the problem is with perception. I think the contest of perception to actions while in stealth is the problem.
First my skills/stats/and other things that matter.
Stealth: 704 41.76%
Bows: 540 06.59%
Strength : 50 + Reflex : 75 +
Agility : 70 + Charisma : 35
Discipline : 70 + Wisdom : 45
Intelligence : 45 Stamina : 50
> khri check
You are under the influence of the Plunder meditation, which should last around 7 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Shadowstep meditation, which should last around 6 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Dampen meditation, which should last around 7 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Darken meditation, which should last around 7 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Focus meditation, which should last around 8 roisaen.
You are under the influence of the Elusion meditation, which should last around 3 roisaen.
You feel at home skulking in shadow, which will vanish when any pillar supporting it does.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently insignificantly hindered and your stealth is minimally hindered.
Through all my testing I did not get pointed out once while not taking any actions. As soon as I took an action (attack, load) I would fail the perception check.
Here is some shots that I took:
H> snipe
The zombie mauler notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie mauler discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler fails to dodge.
The arrow lands an extremely heavy (10/23) hit that lodges the golden arrow firmly in the mauler's right cheek.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie mauler!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
HR> snipe
The zombie mauler notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie mauler discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a massive (12/23) strike that rips the the bicep from the mauler's right arm to expose slimy wet bone.
The golden arrow lodges itself firmly into the zombie mauler!
[You're solidly balanced and opponent has slight advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> poach
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a powerful (11/23) strike that lodges golden arrow in the mauler's right shoulder to rip the arm free.
That would have stuck if there was anything left to stick to!
The golden arrow falls to the ground!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You think you have your best shot possible now.
H> snipe
The zombie mauler notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie mauler discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie mauler. A zombie mauler attempts to evade.
The arrow lands an awesome (13/23) strike that rips the mauler's spinal cord from its body with a gooey wet slash.
The golden arrow lodges itself savagely into the zombie mauler!
A zombie mauler falls belly-up and grunts its last grunt.
[You're solidly balanced]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You think you have your best shot possible now.
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter attempts to dodge.
The arrow lands a very heavy (9/23) hit that stabs deeply into the head-splitt left arm.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> poach
Just as you move to fire, The zombie head-splitter notices your poaching attempt!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter evades.
The golden arrow lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter fails to dodge.
The arrow lands a very heavy (9/23) hit that raises a long swath of smelly green goo along the head-splitt abdomen.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You slip quietly from your hiding place, convinced that you successfully poached your target.
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter fails to evade.
The arrow lands a heavy (8/23) strike to the head-splitt right leg.
The golden arrow lodges itself shallowly into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter attempts to dodge.
The arrow lands a very heavy (9/23) hit that rips away the abdomen to expose putrefied intestines.
The golden arrow lodges itself deeply into the zombie head-splitter!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
You close to melee range on a zombie head-splitter.
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter evades.
The golden arrow lands nearby!
[You're solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
H> snipe
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your Nisha short bow!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
< You attack a golden arrow at a zombie head-splitter. A zombie head-splitter evades.
The golden arrow lands nearby!
[You're hurt, solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
I didn't make a single successful snipe even against maulers who I was able to easily hide and snipe on over 100 ranks ago. What really is worrisome to me is this though:
HR> loa
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to load your Nisha short bow while remaining hidden!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You reach into your quiver to load the Nisha short bow with a golden arrow.
Roundtime 6 sec.
HR> loa
The zombie head-splitter notices your attempt to load your Nisha short bow while remaining hidden!
The zombie head-splitter discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the Nisha short bow with a golden arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 5 sec.
I have never seen anything like this in Prime. I had no shield on so I have no idea why my RTs would be raised while loading, even if I failed the perception check (which I never have before when hunting at level).
So to recap, stealth it's self seems to be ok at least for me. It is the stealth actions that seem to be having problems.
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 11:35 AM CST
This is pretty conclusive. Loading a bow at melee in prime and test.
Prime:
>hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Trotting first in one direction, then in another, the armadillo seems to be searching for something -- or perhaps someone.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You reach into your backpack to load the copperwood longbow with your last basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 5 sec.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 4 sec.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>
Blinking its beady black eyes, the armadillo sniffs the air with its moist snout.
>
Head popping out from under the ground, the armadillo quickly burrows fully up to the surface, looking around alertly.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 4 sec.
>
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
The armadillo digs at the ground with its sharp claws. After a moment, it stops and looks around warily.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 4 sec.
>unh
You come out of hiding.
>
Test: (i did both with and without buckler, so before anyone says something, that's not it)
>hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
Your war-torn buckler makes the task more difficult.
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You reach into your backpack to load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
Roundtime 8 sec.
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Flicking its barbed tail in agitation, the armadillo circles the area, trying to sense anything unseen.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>load
Your war-torn buckler makes the task more difficult.
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 8 sec.
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Appearing to have lost sight of its target, an adult desert armadillo stops advancing.
>load
Your copperwood longbow is already loaded with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 6 sec.
>
hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
The armadillo digs at the ground with its sharp claws. After a moment, it stops and looks around warily.
>
Blinking its beady black eyes, the armadillo sniffs the air with its moist snout.
>load
Your copperwood longbow is already loaded with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
>
The armadillo digs at the ground with its sharp claws. After a moment, it stops and looks around warily.
>
Flicking its barbed tail in agitation, the armadillo circles the area, trying to sense anything unseen.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 6 sec.
>
hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
Your copperwood longbow is already loaded with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
>
Blinking its beady black eyes, the armadillo sniffs the air with its moist snout.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Trotting first in one direction, then in another, the armadillo seems to be searching for something -- or perhaps someone.
>
Trotting first in one direction, then in another, the armadillo seems to be searching for something -- or perhaps someone.
>load
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 7 sec.
So in prime it's a 100% success rate and in test it's a 100% fail rate. Also has been 100% fail rate poaching, and then around a 20% fail rate stalking.
Also, why are the rt's suddenly higher?
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
Prime:
>hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Trotting first in one direction, then in another, the armadillo seems to be searching for something -- or perhaps someone.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You reach into your backpack to load the copperwood longbow with your last basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 5 sec.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 4 sec.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>
Blinking its beady black eyes, the armadillo sniffs the air with its moist snout.
>
Head popping out from under the ground, the armadillo quickly burrows fully up to the surface, looking around alertly.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 4 sec.
>
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
The armadillo digs at the ground with its sharp claws. After a moment, it stops and looks around warily.
>load
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You load the copperwood longbow with a basilisk head arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 4 sec.
>unh
You come out of hiding.
>
Test: (i did both with and without buckler, so before anyone says something, that's not it)
>hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
Your war-torn buckler makes the task more difficult.
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You reach into your backpack to load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
Roundtime 8 sec.
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Flicking its barbed tail in agitation, the armadillo circles the area, trying to sense anything unseen.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>load
Your war-torn buckler makes the task more difficult.
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 8 sec.
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Appearing to have lost sight of its target, an adult desert armadillo stops advancing.
>load
Your copperwood longbow is already loaded with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 6 sec.
>
hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
The armadillo digs at the ground with its sharp claws. After a moment, it stops and looks around warily.
>
Blinking its beady black eyes, the armadillo sniffs the air with its moist snout.
>load
Your copperwood longbow is already loaded with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
>
The armadillo digs at the ground with its sharp claws. After a moment, it stops and looks around warily.
>
Flicking its barbed tail in agitation, the armadillo circles the area, trying to sense anything unseen.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 6 sec.
>
hi
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>load
Your copperwood longbow is already loaded with a lurid fuchsia arrow.
>
Blinking its beady black eyes, the armadillo sniffs the air with its moist snout.
>
Wandering along its merry way, the armadillo suddenly pauses and glances around suspiciously.
>unl
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your unloading of the copperwood longbow went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>
Trotting first in one direction, then in another, the armadillo seems to be searching for something -- or perhaps someone.
>
Trotting first in one direction, then in another, the armadillo seems to be searching for something -- or perhaps someone.
>load
The desert armadillo notices your attempt to load your copperwood longbow while remaining hidden!
The desert armadillo discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
You load the copperwood longbow with a lurid fuchsia arrow in your hand.
Roundtime 7 sec.
So in prime it's a 100% success rate and in test it's a 100% fail rate. Also has been 100% fail rate poaching, and then around a 20% fail rate stalking.
Also, why are the rt's suddenly higher?
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
CRAVYD
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 12:52 PM CST
My necro:
Disc: 45
Agi: 48
TM: 271
Sling: 232
Hiding: 375
Leathers: 322
Tested poaching and Vivisection in Prime and Test against a combination of baby/fledgling gryphons. Each poach/viv attempt was fully targeted/aimed, with stalk occurring immediately before the attempt. Not a huge sample, but big enough to show the difference.
Prime:
34 successful poaches out of 34 poach attempts (100% success rate)
18 successful viv's out of 23 viv casts (78.26% success rate)
Test:
31 successful poaches out of 42 poach attempts (73.81% success rate)
0 successful viv's out of 10 viv casts (0.00% success rate)
That's a noticeable difference, considering neither my skills, stats, nor methods changed.
Disc: 45
Agi: 48
TM: 271
Sling: 232
Hiding: 375
Leathers: 322
Tested poaching and Vivisection in Prime and Test against a combination of baby/fledgling gryphons. Each poach/viv attempt was fully targeted/aimed, with stalk occurring immediately before the attempt. Not a huge sample, but big enough to show the difference.
Prime:
34 successful poaches out of 34 poach attempts (100% success rate)
18 successful viv's out of 23 viv casts (78.26% success rate)
Test:
31 successful poaches out of 42 poach attempts (73.81% success rate)
0 successful viv's out of 10 viv casts (0.00% success rate)
That's a noticeable difference, considering neither my skills, stats, nor methods changed.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 02:51 PM CST
>>Because I keep hearing people saying that disc/agil/ref aren't doing anything for them, and I've seen that to be true with agil/ref.
Stats still play a substantial role in combat calculations much like they did before. This has been verified repeatedly (its easy for us to verify as well).
Nothing changed in the stealth code, so stats should continue to do what they've always done.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Stats still play a substantial role in combat calculations much like they did before. This has been verified repeatedly (its easy for us to verify as well).
Nothing changed in the stealth code, so stats should continue to do what they've always done.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 02:56 PM CST
>Nothing changed in the stealth code, so stats should continue to do what they've always done.
What about in the code of things that contest the stats? Seems like a very big coincidence if all of us are saying the same thing.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
What about in the code of things that contest the stats? Seems like a very big coincidence if all of us are saying the same thing.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
CRAVYD
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 04:15 PM CST
What about the things that make stealth harder, like hindrance, wounds/vitality, opposing perception, multiple opponents, weapon skill, or magic ranks?
PUCKTEN
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 05:00 PM CST
>>Nothing changed in the stealth code, so stats should continue to do what they've always done.
>>DR-Kodius
There's no way that's true.
In Prime I can run all over Rheeni, she has no hope of ever seeing me do any action. Hide, snipe, load, stalk...etc etc
But loading in her room, she can see me with half the perception of my hiding?
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 05:45 PM CST
>>Nothing changed in the stealth code, so stats should continue to do what they've always done.
Stats may have not have changed what they do in stealth, but I don't think it's reasonable to say nothing changed in the stealth code.
There's no way that two stealth skills were combined (stalking and hiding) and that there were NO changes made to that code. With the issues that we are all seeing with snipe, poach, loading, advancing, etc something has changed.
No, it may not have anything to do with the stealth combine and that may just be a coincidence, but maybe the perception checks have changed?
>access
A nightstalker unyn (1: nimbly balanced) is facing you at melee range.
A nightstalker unyn (2: solidly balanced) is flanking you at melee range.
A nightstalker unyn (3: nimbly balanced) is behind you at melee range.
(You are also defending against a nightstalker unyn.)
>hide
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
H>slip bow
You silently slip out a Nisha short bow from a hand-tooled bear hide baldric.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
H>load
Your crocodile-skin buckler makes the task more difficult.
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You reach into your quiver to load the Nisha short bow with a basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 7 sec.
H>aim
You begin to target a nightstalker unyn.
H>snipe
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your moving to fire went unobserved.
This was done 50 times Prime... the results never changed. I was successful every time.
Everything else was the same in test except the result of the snipe.
H>snipe
The nightstalker unyn notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your short bow!
The nightstalker unyn discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
50 for 50 in test this happen.
Something is different. Intentional or not, we can't argue with these results.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Stats may have not have changed what they do in stealth, but I don't think it's reasonable to say nothing changed in the stealth code.
There's no way that two stealth skills were combined (stalking and hiding) and that there were NO changes made to that code. With the issues that we are all seeing with snipe, poach, loading, advancing, etc something has changed.
No, it may not have anything to do with the stealth combine and that may just be a coincidence, but maybe the perception checks have changed?
>access
A nightstalker unyn (1: nimbly balanced) is facing you at melee range.
A nightstalker unyn (2: solidly balanced) is flanking you at melee range.
A nightstalker unyn (3: nimbly balanced) is behind you at melee range.
(You are also defending against a nightstalker unyn.)
>hide
You melt into the background, convinced that your attempt to hide went unobserved.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
H>slip bow
You silently slip out a Nisha short bow from a hand-tooled bear hide baldric.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
H>load
Your crocodile-skin buckler makes the task more difficult.
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your loading went unobserved.
You reach into your quiver to load the Nisha short bow with a basilisk head arrow.
Roundtime 7 sec.
H>aim
You begin to target a nightstalker unyn.
H>snipe
You remain concealed by your surroundings, convinced that your moving to fire went unobserved.
This was done 50 times Prime... the results never changed. I was successful every time.
Everything else was the same in test except the result of the snipe.
H>snipe
The nightstalker unyn notices your attempt to remain hidden while firing your short bow!
The nightstalker unyn discovers you, ruining your hiding place!
50 for 50 in test this happen.
Something is different. Intentional or not, we can't argue with these results.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 07:52 PM CST
Going to just add my piece to this whole, stealth acting on hidden debabcle. I have around 570 stealth with obfuscation up, while casting vivisection at shalswar they see me every time, thats just not even right in the slightest. Also vivisection while in inviso brings us out of inviso before cast.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 08:20 PM CST
Eh, really the calls to hiding/stalking were just unified to call the new stealth skill. No other intentional changes were made.
Now, buffs generally could be doing MUCH less than they did previously. I'm not sure what effect adding global caps may have had on things. We'll keep digging, but every time I waste a weekend testing, then get a dozen or so players to test, they give the system a clean bill of health... then this happens :sigh:
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Now, buffs generally could be doing MUCH less than they did previously. I'm not sure what effect adding global caps may have had on things. We'll keep digging, but every time I waste a weekend testing, then get a dozen or so players to test, they give the system a clean bill of health... then this happens :sigh:
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
BEVERAGEK
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 08:40 PM CST
IMO should set an event, Stealth Testing or something so everyone who has a problem can all log in at the same time and give his/her testimony.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 09:04 PM CST
I know you say buffs should generally be doing alot less, but from what I have heard since obsfuscation (necromancer buff) no longer buffs hiding and stalking, should do more of a general stealth buff than it buffed hiding before? Honestly I could cast vivisection on shalswar with 300's stealth before without buffs probably, but now with almost 600 in stealth I cannot cast it on them with buffs up. Something has to be awry.
MYTHORLOGICAL
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 09:07 PM CST
Kodius all of my references are without buffs. Something is wrong, whether it's perception, stats... We have no way of knowing. But something is definitely not the same as it is in prime.
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 09:23 PM CST
For what it's worth, all my testing was without buffs.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
MOCKERJB
Re: Stealth...
12/09/2012 09:35 PM CST
Yeah, it doesn't seem like a buff issue or shield hindrance issue. I repeated my test without Shadows in Prime, and I still don't get seen poaching at all. My performance in Test, with Shadows, is noticeably worse (every poach failed) than in Prime.
I also tried ambushing in Prime vs Test, just to see if it was a ranged thing. It wasn't, for me. Ambush messaging in Test indicates I am getting less than the full success. I also tried removing my shield entirely in Test, but I still failed poaches and ambushes.
I also tried ambushing in Prime vs Test, just to see if it was a ranged thing. It wasn't, for me. Ambush messaging in Test indicates I am getting less than the full success. I also tried removing my shield entirely in Test, but I still failed poaches and ambushes.
