To clarify, AOE multi-strike is the fire rains of the world, and AOE single strike is like the telekinetic storms of the world?

>To clarify, AOE multi-strike is the fire rains of the world, and AOE single strike is like the telekinetic storms of the world?

Yep - anything that hits multiple targets multiple times. Fire Rain is the biggest offender in this. TKS is, as you say, an AoE single-strike.

>>but it didn't completely break until we started casting tremor too

There were a few issues going on at once, for sure. Tremor needs a couple tweaks as well (though less grandiose than this one).

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"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

>>Yep - anything that hits multiple targets multiple times. Fire Rain is the biggest offender in this. TKS is, as you say, an AoE single-strike.

As an avid WM player part of me laments the loss much like part of me lamented the loss fo the 2.0 CL which was absuredly overpowered. But it needed a bit of nuke. How about umm... 2 strikes PER creature capped at say 10 creatures? Altho I am fine with the 3 strikes per creature up to 6 too I suppose. You wont have more than 4 on you but if you hunting WITH people its nice to be able to smack stuff on them and on you a lil.

Please dont limit the Cast Area debilitation spells. I can see that it may be a tad funky during invasion events with UMPTEENTH number of creatures in the room but I'd hate to see a spell utility nerfed due to a 0.1% sutuational issue.

In other words we lose 99.9% utility use for the 0.1% and thats for people who actualy bother with invasions etc. A lot dont.

I'm not gunna lie on this one, I'm not happy with the sounds of this. I play a warrior mage, and after all the changes happening, I'm struggling to see where warmies fit. I've always understood warmies to be masters of storms, area effect type things, chain lightning, fire rain, basically hitting loads of things at once in crazy storms of magic...

Your pretty much saying here, that because your server cant handle things during probably the 0.01% time we actually see invasions, that you have to change how many things our spells hit?

Don't a lot of area effect spells already take a penalty in one way or another? Will it actually be worth casting these spells over a normal spell if its only going to hit once? Wouldn't I just cast a single hitting spell and save my mana?

Maybe I need to know more about the difference in accuracy and power in spells, and play about in test, but my warrior mage won't be anything like he once was at this rate, and given the slightest chance, I'd change his guild to anything other than warmie now, but considering I've invested seven years into him, guess I just suck it up and plod along....

>>Your pretty much saying here, that because your server cant handle things during probably the 0.01% time we actually see invasions, that you have to change how many things our spells hit?

I have been playing a WM since 2002 belive me I feel the pain. Was devastated when CL got nerfed, than nefed again and than again to the point where it is not much use now. Perhaps 3.1 version will be useful.

The issue with a spell like Fire Rain is that it can hit an INFINATE number of targets up to what 6 times each? I have had Fire Rain hit 30+ times in a room with 3 hunters. That is a tad extreme. Dont get me wrong I LOVE it as a WM but it really is a touch much. I'd like it to have say a cap of 2 hits PER creature to a total of say 10 creatures or some such which is reasonable. I'd HATE to hae it nerfed to only the things your engaged to totaly defeats the nature of the spell.

The other thing you have to consider is the massive plethora of TM spells we have at our disposal as WM. That is what makes us WM we can blow, blast and brun to cinders things in SOOOOO many ways its a lot of fun. That is out identity. Same goes for Debilitation. That I really hope they do not nerf. There is NO call to nerf Area AOE Debilitation WM spells or any guild spells cus of the 0.1% situational issue.

Warmies also excel at multiple outputs of TM related damage. MAB + RoS/FR + Rime + BG + a TM equals a lot of output damage. I don't think any other guild can pull that off.

>>Your pretty much saying here, that because your server cant handle things during probably the 0.01% time we actually see invasions, that you have to change how many things our spells hit?

No, we are saying it is unfair and unbalanced to hit 500 times per spell AND it used to have a limit for a technical reason. We will monitor the damage and usability and ensure it is adequate. I played a WM for many years and don't want to see them nerfed any more than you. This weekend I'll run the math on numbers a bit on cyclic/AoE spells and see where we are at.

But truly - the game engine is 20 years old. PLEASE - donate us a million dollars and we can go fix it right up :) Otherwise we have to work with what we have.

Crashing the game repeatedly would make DR go away and die. No two ways about it. A crash often makes us want to smash our heads into the keyboards until bloody unconsciousness claims us. A crash can create hours and hours of extra work. So no matter what... SOME limit must be enforced.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>>Your pretty much saying here, that because your server cant handle things during probably the 0.01% time we actually see invasions, that you have to change how many things our spells hit?

In fairness, AoE's as a whole probably should have a critter strike range of 0-infinity. How often are people going to be in those situations, anyway? It's silly to fight over losing stuff in a context that almost never happens, anyway.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

I love that fire rain hits everything in the room, it makes for the best TM training in a swarmy environment.

It's unbalanced compared to the rest of our spells as is.


The Giveth:

Buff CL. The idea listed elsewhere about it bouncing from critter to critter is a great one, magic dictates bounce count, tm dictates damage per bounce. Have it be a released spell ala old ball lightning, and cap the count of unique spells in a room to 2. If there is no bounce target, % chance will bounce off the caster (1 critter and you might hit yourself). Have the bounces pulse every 3-7 seconds. Cap at 6 bounces. Make this say a 300 magics minimum spell. (Esoteric?)

The Taketh-Away:
Nerf Fire Rain to one hit per critter facing caster. I think Fire Rain is DFA. If not, make it so number 1.



Results:
Pro - We get a badass spell that feels badass (but doesn't really do all that much other than max 6pulse - 5second snapcasts non-DFA slightly weaker LBs that get you full prep)
Con - Fire Rain is balance appropriate and not game breaking.

Might help to put it into perspective a bit. 3 hits with the fixed TM mechanics is enough to seriously wound an at-level creature. You're talking about seriously wounding/killing 5-10 creatures with a cyclic spell (meaning you can stack your single casts and weapons on top of this killing slaughter). That's far, far beyond what any other guild can do with any other ability, by a series of multipliers. I'm all for war mages remaining beasts of destruction, and I think they will remain so with this change. It just cuts back on a little of the insane potential in mobs.

warrior mages - limits are made because we break things

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An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.

WM 100th circle ability: Limit break!

Seriously though, just wanted to take a second to say how good the changes have been so far, thank you!

>>Multi-strike and AOE spells and abilities as a whole probably generate too much exp, IMO.

However your stats determine the learning pace so it is a moot point. Should you be able to run in and lock something in less than 5 minutes probably not. But than again why not? Than you can go do whatever while it drains.

>The first thing we're doing is reducing the number of shots that an AoE multishot spell gets. They'll start with 1 shot and extra mana can scale them up to 3 (per target). This means that extra mana is awesome for these spells.

In a typical 4 critter engagement using Fire Rain, that means 4-12 hits every 12 seconds for almost no effort. With the Test's TM damage tweaks that sounds pretty awesome, as a Necromancer and I would be happy to have something of that power level. The changes sound more then reasonable to me.

Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

>>Nerf Fire Rain to one hit per critter facing caster. I think Fire Rain is DFA. If not, make it so number 1.

Umm... go away. How exactly is a spell whose nature is to create a THUNDERCOULD over the entire area which is supposed to rain fire is going to hit ONE creature in combat with the caster? Thats worst than a multistrike spell.

Its one of the KEY signature WM spells lets not do the "Get the torches and pitchforks" routine here. Is it supposed to hit 30+ 40+ or 50+ times? NO! But is it supposed to hit 4 times!?? NO!

I am all for reasonable which is why I'd like to see it capped at 2 or 3 hits PER creature and capped at 5 to 10 creatures.

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No, I won't go away, learn to read or take bickering elsewhere. I said one hit per creature facing the caster. That's a max of 4 creatures or 4 hits. not 1 creature in combat. Or give it 2 hits per creature... so 8 hits. That's still over the current cap of max hits (5) applied to all other AoE spells.

I'd rather see it rain fiery destruction in a non-game breaking way, and if you'll note my caveat of FIXING CHAIN LIGHTNING WITH IT. And it's not DFA so make it DFA. An increase in pulse speed would be great, but it honestly feels right as is.

Fire Rain is getting a nerf. It's over AoE strike cap and hits everything in the room. As a long time on/off warrior mage player, I would rather see it retain the feel, make it more deadly, and still balanced.. than just a generic loss of hits and loss of range with no give and take. I want to think my suggestion is more in line with the direction that GMs (esp Kodius) are taking things... balanced but still fun.

Also, it's not a thundercould, it's a pyrocastic ash cloud..

And I set fire to the rain.... Watched it burn

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>>And I set fire to the rain.... Watched it burn

Ha ha. That is a good song.

Out of curiosity perhaps a Red name can illuminate me on this but how difficult is it to set a spell Target hit #? Is it all facing or all in the area period or just one limitations? Can it be done so spell Z hits X number of targets max P times? Is this possible or are the three noted options kind of it?

soooooo..... more than one FR per room?

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An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.

Something lost in the clutter: AoE multishots used to have limits. 3.0 broke/removed them unintentionally.

So part of the 'nerf' is repairing something that shouldn't have been removed to begin with.

>>What 3.0 brought back was spells of Mass Destruction like old style CL and TkT.

TM was doing less than half damage in 3.0, so how were these as destructive as folks claim? My testing was showing that the greater majority of hits were glancing - not doing any damage at all...

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes