Quick question on the two-handed weapon/shield trade-off. Does this penalty apply just for wearing/holding a shield or only when the character is stanced to attempt to use the shield? In other words, can I keep my armworn shield on and just stance to parry while using my claymore (to use it without penalty), or do I need to take off the shield entirely?

<<* Water combat will be more viable than at present, and use Outdoorsmanship skill as a modifier.>>

Did you mean to say Athleticism here?

This sounds like a lot of great stuff. Thanks for the update.

Kaxis

---

"See? Dust. Just like the rest of them." -- Buffy

>Small weapons have a higher chance of a positive critical roll.

How small does a weapon need to be, is it determined by weapon class only or weight within that class? Is it a static 'small or not' thing or does it scale to the size? And if it's based on class, is MB smaller than SS?

>* Water combat will be more viable than at present, and use Outdoorsmanship skill as a modifier.

Cool. Would be also neat if there were mud, quicksand, rocky/inclined terrain room modifiers.

>>* Guarding allies will be a little more useful and practical.

Also cool. I was always impressed with how well paladins could work in a group, but always wished non-pallies were a little more viable in such a role.

>>I think this is meant to be the nature of the class of weapon.

For a while it was talked about that minimum RT and such would be based on weight of the weapon itself and not just weapon class. Not sure if that bit made the cut or not, though.

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!

>>How small does a weapon need to be, is it determined by weapon class only or weight within that class? Is it a static 'small or not' thing or does it scale to the size? And if it's based on class, is MB smaller than SS?

I would assume it would scale with weight and be class independent. If it was based on class, there would be alot of descrepencies. like your SS example, SS and QS are being combined, so you would get the same benefit/penalty or whatever you would call it whether you were using a nightstick or a pike staff.


Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

<<I would assume it would scale with weight and be class independent. If it was based on class, there would be alot of descrepencies. like your SS example, SS and QS are being combined, so you would get the same benefit/penalty or whatever you would call it whether you were using a nightstick or a pike staff.

I believe they said that the weapon type will not change, just the skill it trains. So for example, you would have something like these appraisals:

A short sword is a light edged melee-ranged weapon that relies on your skill with small edges.
A scimitar is a medium edged melee-ranged weapon that relies on your skill with small edges.
A nightstick is a short staff melee-ranged weapon that relies on your skill with staves.
A quarterstaff is a quarterstaff melee-ranged weapon that relies on your skill with staves.

That way they don't have to re-do all the various feats and abilities that rely on weapon skillset status or type of weapon, such as dual wielding or backstabbing.

<<Oh! P.S. Any update on how the Stalk/Group mechanics fix is going? (So that someone who has STALKed you isn't immune to AOE attacks which are designed to hit everyone outside of your group)>>

This should remain true. If you spot the person, you can disband them, right? If you don't spot them, they should get the benefit of the stalk. Or maybe a toggle that you can set to automatically "disband" stalkers from your AOE when you spot them. Stalking a battle leader is an important part of friendly team mechanics too.

> Quick question on the two-handed weapon/shield trade-off. Does this penalty apply just for wearing/holding a shield or only when the character is stanced to attempt to use the shield? In other words, can I keep my armworn shield on and just stance to parry while using my claymore (to use it without penalty), or do I need to take off the shield entirely?


Good question. For the sake of player convenience, it is based on how you are stanced. If you aren't trying to use the shield, it won't hinder you (beyond any standard burden hindrance to defenses, anyway). If you make any attempt whatsoever to use the shield while using a two-hander (ie stance for shield at all), you will be penalized.


I also want to remind folks that shield has penalized evasion in the past but no longer will in the new system, so the defense penalty is largely a wash. Instead, it will -only- impose a penalty when used in conjunction with a two-handed weapon, and yes, a few "two-handed" weapons will receive reduced penalty due to traditionally used in conjunction with shields -- short piercing pole arms, primarily (spears, javelins). I know this will be an unpopular change for some people, but there needs to be some drawbacks to using two-handers to offset their superior damage, and the most obvious one (aside from increasing the roundtime, which I think would be less popular) is to place limitations (not complete restrictions) on combining them with one of the best defenses.


- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

> Did you mean to say Athleticism here?

I meant the "Skill formerly known as Swimming". :-D

- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

>>But yes, gen rates will probably need to be tweaked to some degree. Or people will need to actually KILL things instead of just dancing with as many as they can pile on. Or most likely a combination of both.

Geez, it's about time.

Thanks for those replies, Dart.

I guess my next question though would be about Backstab. Any insight you could give us on how that will be treated? It's a stealth skill like Hiding and Stalking but as it is now is more difficult and time-consuming and slower to train since I don't think it has the same contests as Hiding and Stalking. You have to hammer it for extended periods of time to get it to move at all.

Thieves have had to come up with some creative (lame) tricks to train it, like using weapons that do near-zero damage to make the critters last longer. Or even feinting and missing so one critter lasts forever. That never worked for me since Hiding would grab like 80% of the exp bits and Stalking and Backstab would crawl even slower. Plus that resulted in no boxes, which is anathema for a thief.

Also with stealth mojo being able to run out in the future so that we won't be able to work Backstab non-stop for nearly an hour, it will make it even more in need of serious changes. Anything further you could share at this point?

Kaxis

---

"See? Dust. Just like the rest of them." -- Buffy

>I also want to remind folks that shield has penalized evasion in the past but no longer will in the new system, so the defense penalty is largely a wash. Instead, it will -only- impose a penalty when used in conjunction with a two-handed weapon, and yes, a few "two-handed" weapons will receive reduced penalty due to traditionally used in conjunction with shields -- short piercing pole arms, primarily (spears, javelins). I know this will be an unpopular change for some people, but there needs to be some drawbacks to using two-handers to offset their superior damage, and the most obvious one (aside from increasing the roundtime, which I think would be less popular) is to place limitations (not complete restrictions) on combining them with one of the best defenses.



Dartenian if I read this correctly you are saying that spears and javelins are essentially 2 handed and will receive some penalty when used with a shield?

If that is what you are saying I would ask that you reconsider as in my experience such weapons do not have any more damage dealing potential than a ME. Also spear/javelin and shield combo is a cornerstone of ancient warfare (Greek hoplites, Romans, numerous African civilisations, the Spartans, Assyrians... the list is long. I think that pikes and other pole ranged polearms should be classed as 2 handed.

>When I read the small weapons having the best crit opportunities, that's when I was a little concerned. What will be the pro of wielding a two-handed weapon in 3.0?

Small weapons will have the best to-hit crits. Larger weapons will have the best damage crits. Larger weapons will also do more damage per hit.

Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer

>>All AOEs we're talking about have a potential "cast area/play loud" option if the caster really really needs to nuke an area for a stealther they can't see, right?

Wrong. People inside your group(Stalkers included if they STALK you) are immune to the CAST AREA/SONG LOUD feature. This is what I'm talking about that needs to change.

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!

>>1. auto-retreat

In regard to retreat, will RETREAT work more like ADVANCE in that it will be a gradual thing, rather than how it is right now(teleportation)?

~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!

>>Small weapons will have the best to-hit crits. Larger weapons will have the best damage crits. Larger weapons will also do more damage per hit.


>>* Small weapons have a higher chance of a positive critical roll.

The wording that Dart used sounds differnt than the wording you used. That was more what I was eluding to. Hey, I could be completely misreading it.






You also see a shiny scorecard and a shiny scorecard.
Obvious paths: none.
> read scorec
A shiny scorecard reads:
"Liurilias - 747"
> read other scorec
A shiny scorecard reads:
"Zerreck - 2456"

>>Please tell me you will allow more than 4 to advance a person in 3.0. I yearn for the old days when my pole ranged weapon would hit 8 when I whirled.. 4 that were at melee and 4 that were at pole!

I was under the impression that, in 3.0, you're not going to ever want 3+ mobs on you, because even the biggest baddest guy will start suffering, combat-wise, when getting overwhelmed.

<<Or people will need to actually KILL things instead of just dancing with as many as they can pile on>>

what about empaths, who pretty much have to do this to effectively learn, and do not have a complete construct critter-ladder?

Preces meae non sunt dignae;Sed tu bonus fac benigne;Ne perenni cremer igne [Dies Irae]

<<GS,Manipulate>>, yes. those kill critters. but you don't learn weapon ranks by using them. with the current system, you have to stance parry with critters to learn weapon ranks. And you only learn them by having them pile on.

I'm thinking specifically of the ranks in-between when one can hunt boggles and gargoyles, which are both constructs. Which includes roughly eel level to croc-level.

And ever watch two eels trying to kill each other with manipulate? its like watching paint dry.





Preces meae non sunt dignae;Sed tu bonus fac benigne;Ne perenni cremer igne [Dies Irae]