Previous
Whatever recent changes you have made to shove broke it the other direction, can't get sprawling success in 20 tries incredibly balanced and dominating. I get them to knees thats all and 400 tactics can't get success on 390 defending AT ALL with circle, shove, and grapple. In fact it makes my balance worse to try. Will you look into it again, I hope you didn't intend to make the tactics skill as useless as it is now. As weapon tert it was nice to have a non magic combat manuever that wasn't tert. However now its useless as weapons unless I far outclass and even then I cannot get a 100% success.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
KHIOL
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
05/18/2013 04:35 PM CDT
After a bit more testing with a few other people, no matter of skill range we were not able to achieve anything more than shove to knees, even on field goblins and regardless of balance. Additionally its my opinion that the contest is weighted WAY to much in favor of the defender. More so than a weapon contest as far as I can tell.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
05/20/2013 10:33 AM CDT
OK thanks for turning the sprawling back on, when I have someone when a little lower defense than me I'll be testing to see if I don't completely wiff again....
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
05/20/2013 11:02 PM CDT
20 shove attempts on a character with less stats and 350 defending vs 400 tactics whiffed everyone and thats at incredibly balanced and dominating. This is also true for grapple.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 01:50 PM CDT
I think its real funny that all the lore tert barbs could jump on the previous tactics issue and then when the fix swings it WAY to far in thier direction they don't chime in at all. The contest is a joke now PvP its entirely broke.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
GORTEOUS
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 02:42 PM CDT
>> I think its real funny that all the lore tert barbs could jump on the previous tactics issue and then when the fix swings it WAY to far in thier direction they don't chime in at all. The contest is a joke now PvP its entirely broke.
We jumped on that because it was broken for MONTHS before it was 'fixed'. Posting some data instead of name-calling and acting like the 'mean ol barbs are out to nerf you' would help your case a lot here.
These things happen when we discover them(we don't spend 24/7 testing things BTW), but yea we just tested it and yea its broken. Definitely broken in PvP and definitely not broken in PvM - 100% success in PvM vs assassins(base 750-800 critter), 25% success vs ints(base 850-900 critter). 0% success Codiax vs Gort at any stance. 757 tactics.
> stanc
You are currently using 0% of your evasion skill.
You are currently using 0% of your weapon parry skill.
You are currently using 0% of your shield block skill.
(You have 201 defensive point(s) left to allocate.)
You are attacking with 100% of your offensive skill.
Last Combat Maneuver: Parry
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
> sit
stand
You sit down.
s>
You stand back up.
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
> stanc
You are currently using 1% of your evasion skill.
You are currently using 1% of your shield block skill.
You are currently using 0% of your weapon parry skill.
(You have 199 defensive point(s) left to allocate.)
You are attacking with 100% of your offensive skill.
Last Combat Maneuver: Parry
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
> 'that's 1/1
You say, "That's 1/1."
>
Codiax pushes you lightly.
>
Codiax exclaims, "Ha!"
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Eladrin just arrived.
>
Eladrin went through an oak door.
>
Codiax exclaims, "Ha!"
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax says, "Oops."
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Holy Titan Gabin just arrived.
>
Holy Titan Gabin went through an oak door.
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
We jumped on that because it was broken for MONTHS before it was 'fixed'. Posting some data instead of name-calling and acting like the 'mean ol barbs are out to nerf you' would help your case a lot here.
These things happen when we discover them(we don't spend 24/7 testing things BTW), but yea we just tested it and yea its broken. Definitely broken in PvP and definitely not broken in PvM - 100% success in PvM vs assassins(base 750-800 critter), 25% success vs ints(base 850-900 critter). 0% success Codiax vs Gort at any stance. 757 tactics.
> stanc
You are currently using 0% of your evasion skill.
You are currently using 0% of your weapon parry skill.
You are currently using 0% of your shield block skill.
(You have 201 defensive point(s) left to allocate.)
You are attacking with 100% of your offensive skill.
Last Combat Maneuver: Parry
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
> sit
stand
You sit down.
s>
You stand back up.
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
> stanc
You are currently using 1% of your evasion skill.
You are currently using 1% of your shield block skill.
You are currently using 0% of your weapon parry skill.
(You have 199 defensive point(s) left to allocate.)
You are attacking with 100% of your offensive skill.
Last Combat Maneuver: Parry
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
> 'that's 1/1
You say, "That's 1/1."
>
Codiax pushes you lightly.
>
Codiax exclaims, "Ha!"
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Eladrin just arrived.
>
Eladrin went through an oak door.
>
Codiax exclaims, "Ha!"
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Codiax says, "Oops."
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
>
Holy Titan Gabin just arrived.
>
Holy Titan Gabin went through an oak door.
>
Codiax tries to push you but you don't budge!
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
GORTEOUS
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 02:44 PM CDT
Also, Halzo is not a barb.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 02:47 PM CDT
Heh, you all are funny. I'll see what might be going on this weekend. It should be impossible to shove someone with offense = defense, just like it is pretty impossible to hit someone with offense = defense. As I've said before, that was how DR was balanced all along, and changing it broke where people could hunt (made learning almost impossible). Probably still something getting clobbered somewhere, we'll see.
Note - STANCE has no impact on tactic's defense, which is the Defending skill.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Note - STANCE has no impact on tactic's defense, which is the Defending skill.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 04:48 PM CDT
Sorry Gort I just wanted you to post in the thread so it got noticed, absolutely no offense to any of you honestly I am just seeing how the boards work. See how quick Kodius jumped on this Thread thats been up for 5 days now as soon as you posted in it? Again, no offense I do admit I baited you to get recognition is all.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 05:05 PM CDT
To Kodius:
>20 shove attempts on a character with less stats and 350 defending vs 400 tactics whiffed everyone and thats at incredibly balanced and dominating. This is also true for grapple.
I also have more agility, reflex, same strength, and more stamina if any of that matters.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
>20 shove attempts on a character with less stats and 350 defending vs 400 tactics whiffed everyone and thats at incredibly balanced and dominating. This is also true for grapple.
I also have more agility, reflex, same strength, and more stamina if any of that matters.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 06:34 PM CDT
It's not some magical poster posting. It's that the GM in question (Kodius) is/was super busy. If you notice, he hasn't posted anywhere for a week or more, then he drops a couple lines in a few folders in an hour burst. Usually indicative of the GM just catching up on the boards as a whole.
For the record, the board Monitors will direct GMs to posts that need attention, I believe. Or at least I'm remembering the big bad 'A' saying as such somewhere.
Pants.
For the record, the board Monitors will direct GMs to posts that need attention, I believe. Or at least I'm remembering the big bad 'A' saying as such somewhere.
Pants.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tactics.
05/23/2013 08:58 PM CDT
Heh, it just depends on when I can sneak time out at my RL job to read the forums folks :/
I tested in Dev and everything appears to be fine. I'll have to come watch some of you in person to see what is going on. Can some folks email me to setup a time?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I tested in Dev and everything appears to be fine. I'll have to come watch some of you in person to see what is going on. Can some folks email me to setup a time?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
VEE-REX
Re: Tactics.
05/24/2013 12:41 PM CDT
>>offense = defense, just like it is pretty impossible to hit someone with offense = defense.
I wish this was the case with stat contested abilities. :(
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I wish this was the case with stat contested abilities. :(
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
GORTEOUS
Re: Tactics.
05/24/2013 02:23 PM CDT
>> I wish this was the case with stat contested abilities. :(
Most of that has to do with Potency 130% stance.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
Most of that has to do with Potency 130% stance.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
MOCKERJB
Re: Tactics.
05/24/2013 08:10 PM CDT
As far as spells go, I am under the impression that 130% potency does absolutely nothing over 100% if the spell is capped. Perhaps I am incorrect, or you were referring to roars? Can you even stance roars?
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tactics.
05/24/2013 08:32 PM CDT
Well to be fair, debuffs are intended to give you an advantage. Debuffing something you can already hit very well isn't all that useful, right?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
ILLIENA
Re: Tactics.
05/24/2013 08:52 PM CDT
> As far as spells go, I am under the impression that 130% potency does absolutely nothing over 100% if the spell is capped.
Yep. Spell stance won't get you over the mana cap. Instead, the excess mana will be redistributed amongst the other parameters.
Yep. Spell stance won't get you over the mana cap. Instead, the excess mana will be redistributed amongst the other parameters.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 03:07 AM CDT
>I tested in Dev and everything appears to be fine. I'll have to come watch some of you in person to see what is going on. Can some folks email me to setup a time?
I e-mailed you 3 weeks ago and included a conclusive log IMO. Still waiting to hear something back on it, its really disheartening having hundreds of ranks in a skill that means nothing in my PvP stuff. Works great PvE don't get me wrong but PvE is only half of combat. I don't know what else to do here. Maybe another GM could step in and take a look seems like Kodius is super busy?
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
I e-mailed you 3 weeks ago and included a conclusive log IMO. Still waiting to hear something back on it, its really disheartening having hundreds of ranks in a skill that means nothing in my PvP stuff. Works great PvE don't get me wrong but PvE is only half of combat. I don't know what else to do here. Maybe another GM could step in and take a look seems like Kodius is super busy?
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 09:02 AM CDT
Khiol. You notice how the GMs have been out there, posting, responding, like doing stuff they never did before? That's because they are taking a chance that players don't become so comfortable with it that they begin to develop a sense of entitlement that leads to pushiness. If players go down this road, this experiment will become unmanageable and unproductive. You aren't over the top - but please consider it.
Why is pushiness bad? Because you being pushy alone is one thing, but if everyone begins to post in the same demanding (let's swap Kodius out, he's too busy) approach, their little experiment will come to and end, and you will here from them no more. It may take time for that to happen, but it will.
Sad but true story.
So speak your piece, possibly post a followup, but don't ever suggest a GM have their work moved to someone else because they aren't getting something done quickly enough for you.
Personally, I don't care - I love anger, suspicion, and hysteria as much as the next guy. But you may very well represent the beginning of the end of a good thing. Keep it in mind.
Why is pushiness bad? Because you being pushy alone is one thing, but if everyone begins to post in the same demanding (let's swap Kodius out, he's too busy) approach, their little experiment will come to and end, and you will here from them no more. It may take time for that to happen, but it will.
Sad but true story.
So speak your piece, possibly post a followup, but don't ever suggest a GM have their work moved to someone else because they aren't getting something done quickly enough for you.
Personally, I don't care - I love anger, suspicion, and hysteria as much as the next guy. But you may very well represent the beginning of the end of a good thing. Keep it in mind.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 09:10 AM CDT
I'm not asking to 'swap' Kodius out, what I am irked about is how quick this perticular issue got attention in the first place then left out to dry. Its broken and unusable in the PvP area. I know I can't be the only one to see the issue here. But whats the logic 'since its already gotten attention' it shouldn't get a look again? The initial attention didn't fix anything just made more useless than 2.0 brawling.
>Why is pushiness bad?
I don't think its being pushy to have been having an issue with this for months now and to go nearly months without response or any sort of fix. I responded how he asked and still not even a peep since then. I don't see me being concerned for a skill I would like to see some use from. I'm trying to follow the channels I was told to use if I seen something broken with mechanics in the game. I'm offering suggestions, yes having some help called in is a suggestion if people wanna take it some other way thats not my problem.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
>Why is pushiness bad?
I don't think its being pushy to have been having an issue with this for months now and to go nearly months without response or any sort of fix. I responded how he asked and still not even a peep since then. I don't see me being concerned for a skill I would like to see some use from. I'm trying to follow the channels I was told to use if I seen something broken with mechanics in the game. I'm offering suggestions, yes having some help called in is a suggestion if people wanna take it some other way thats not my problem.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 09:12 AM CDT
I'm sure it's broken. And you did good bringing it up again.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 09:13 AM CDT
We have a bigger problem here if the current good communication is really just an experiment.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 09:33 AM CDT
Last post on this I hope.
There are two issues here that need to be balanced:
1. Simutronics customer service
Ever improving customer service is the goal of serious firms. There are loads of payoffs, ultimately the incentive for good customer service is financial.
2. The uniqueness/role of simutronics staff
Most of these people are in their homes, volunteering - they have other jobs, etc. It is difficult for simu to demand that they provide excellent customer service - because they aren't paid. The GMs who are speaking up (and not all of them are) are sticking their neck out every time. When they respond to us they can count on their work load increasing (often a few hours of work). If you weren't being remunerated beyond having a forum to express your passion (game dev), and you knew that responding to someone's game concerns, suggestions, etc., was going to put you on the spot and force you to produce something (otherwise you shouldn't have responded to the player to begin with), you would think hard every time you were about to click the POST button.
So this isn't so much an experiment for simutronics corporation as they deign to give us more customer service. This is an experiment for every single GM that has been active on these boards. They are experimenting every time they write a post and click POST. They obviously want to give us the customer service we've never ever had before. Pretty sure that's from the heart. But all they need is to get bummed out because no one can appreciate that THEY are providing customer service free of charge, and in their spare time. Frankly, I have a full time job and I would NEVER EVER give the kind of time these people do to a side project like game dev.
It's nice to appreciate simu (and solomon has obviously done something right with the top-down culture), but remember each GM is on his/her own, and is responding because they want to. Dude, I'd really have to want to be a valued team member to do that. I think mostly I'd just be coding and smoking samatak and pointing and laughing when players are dissatisfied.
By the by, things have been working famously well. Was just making a suggestion to Khiol.
There are two issues here that need to be balanced:
1. Simutronics customer service
Ever improving customer service is the goal of serious firms. There are loads of payoffs, ultimately the incentive for good customer service is financial.
2. The uniqueness/role of simutronics staff
Most of these people are in their homes, volunteering - they have other jobs, etc. It is difficult for simu to demand that they provide excellent customer service - because they aren't paid. The GMs who are speaking up (and not all of them are) are sticking their neck out every time. When they respond to us they can count on their work load increasing (often a few hours of work). If you weren't being remunerated beyond having a forum to express your passion (game dev), and you knew that responding to someone's game concerns, suggestions, etc., was going to put you on the spot and force you to produce something (otherwise you shouldn't have responded to the player to begin with), you would think hard every time you were about to click the POST button.
So this isn't so much an experiment for simutronics corporation as they deign to give us more customer service. This is an experiment for every single GM that has been active on these boards. They are experimenting every time they write a post and click POST. They obviously want to give us the customer service we've never ever had before. Pretty sure that's from the heart. But all they need is to get bummed out because no one can appreciate that THEY are providing customer service free of charge, and in their spare time. Frankly, I have a full time job and I would NEVER EVER give the kind of time these people do to a side project like game dev.
It's nice to appreciate simu (and solomon has obviously done something right with the top-down culture), but remember each GM is on his/her own, and is responding because they want to. Dude, I'd really have to want to be a valued team member to do that. I think mostly I'd just be coding and smoking samatak and pointing and laughing when players are dissatisfied.
By the by, things have been working famously well. Was just making a suggestion to Khiol.
NINEVAH1
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 10:27 AM CDT
Not trying to pile on or be hateful, just giving my opinion on the matter. You have a valid point about the issue Khiol, but you can come off very judgmental in how they are doing their jobs and also very demanding about what you want. You have gotten a lot better the past couple months and so has the majority of people on the forums.
DARKEVILWHATEVER is right about the GMs though. These guys only incentive to make this game better for us is the fact that they want to make the game better for us. If they start to feel their work isn't appreciated, they might decided that being a dev isn't worth they're time anymore. There are a few key GMs that we see (and I'm sure twice as many behind the scenes we don't hear about) that are keeping the dev on 3.0 moving. Would hate to see it all come to a stop because of some of us can't be patient. It's just something to keep in mind.
DARKEVILWHATEVER is right about the GMs though. These guys only incentive to make this game better for us is the fact that they want to make the game better for us. If they start to feel their work isn't appreciated, they might decided that being a dev isn't worth they're time anymore. There are a few key GMs that we see (and I'm sure twice as many behind the scenes we don't hear about) that are keeping the dev on 3.0 moving. Would hate to see it all come to a stop because of some of us can't be patient. It's just something to keep in mind.
HEITAK
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 01:23 PM CDT
I agree, lets play nice. As for the tactics issue, the problem that was fixed before was 1 move, in 1 skill was making full skill sets null and void. Shove was NOT contesting properly, as was shown when it was looked at. The fact is 300 tactics could shove/throw any race/class from melee to missile AND put the target on his/her but, even with near 500 defending (the skill that it was meant to challenge, and was NOT). Just to put this in your mind, a gnome moon mage could throw a tog barbarian, from melee to missile, on his rump, with near 100+ ranks less in the contesting skill. This could be repeated at will, and was used to make ALL melee weapons null and void, if you played a class that wished to fight at melee ANY guild with 100+ ranks LESS in the skill used to attack could 100% be immune to melee combat.
Right now it may need to be made more powerful, it's not stopping people from using tactics to bob/circle/weave/grapple/shove or analyze the target to bring his/her defenses down. Targets can be shoved but they must out class the target and that is how every other weapon skill works right now. The old model for shove was CLEARLY not in line with other mechanics in the game. The way it's working now is NOT stopping any class from being viable in pvp..necromancers least of all thanks to great pets, awesome magic, invisibility ( lol ), and a sharp mind that is good at using the abilities at his/her command such as you. The guilds it affects the most such as traders have other gaps that are much larger to fill first before they can become viable in pvp.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 05:17 PM CDT
> Right now it may need to be made more powerful, it's not stopping people from using tactics to bob/circle/weave/grapple/shove or analyze the target to bring his/her defenses down. Targets can be shoved but they must out class the target and that is how every other weapon skill works right now.
I don't know what information or testing you have done with this but I see absolutely NOTHING like that at all. I can actually hit someone with 350 weapons that has 350 defense. Tactics wise I someone with 125 more tactics than my defense loses possition 8-10 circles, bob gains them nil(doesn't hurt them either), same goes for weave. Shove whiffs everytime. They have 125 more in a skill and either the same or more in every relevent stat you could imagine calulating in the contest. They flat out OUTCLASS me yet thier weapons do just fine they hit they do damage they gain balance. Tactics is broke and does nothing. End of story.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
I don't know what information or testing you have done with this but I see absolutely NOTHING like that at all. I can actually hit someone with 350 weapons that has 350 defense. Tactics wise I someone with 125 more tactics than my defense loses possition 8-10 circles, bob gains them nil(doesn't hurt them either), same goes for weave. Shove whiffs everytime. They have 125 more in a skill and either the same or more in every relevent stat you could imagine calulating in the contest. They flat out OUTCLASS me yet thier weapons do just fine they hit they do damage they gain balance. Tactics is broke and does nothing. End of story.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 05:22 PM CDT
Sorry for double but as to DARKEVILWHATEVER's post, I can't say I do not agree. As to me being a bit moody on certain subjects I can be, I'm not perfect never claimed to be. But this perticular issue here got jumped on quick fix status originally then as soon as it was brought up (and I e-mailed logs and stated in these e-mails as was originally asked by the GM about a time to watch what was happening). Now its over 3 weeks later and I've heard nothing despite trying to be as accomidating as possible. I PvP I want to use tactics in this PvP I play weapon/armor tert so at level thats not gunna work for me but what do I have then TM and Tactics is my secondary set. So what do I have now? TM. And done.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
HEITAK
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 06:08 PM CDT
You should try using your pet...you know the big special thing that necromancers get. Or maybe roll another class, something that was not built with a pet being one of the main focuses of the class, the pet that ( bases on your TM ) becomes more powerful and when made defensively will give even a skilled fighter who would normally break right through your own defenses a run for his money. It seems you wish tactics to be a weapon that makes you a viable melee combatant with no need of using your pets and that ( as far as I know ) is just not the design of Necromancers. As for testing, I have used bob to get fatigue back and its worked great, and I have used circle in duels when I'm aiming with my crossbow and it put me in a better balanced position so it seemed to work fine. Still I'm not saying tactics does not need further work but if not being able to shove people away all the time is stopping you from pvping I would step back and re-asses how I'm playing my class. To be honest I would be angry if the only way I could win in pvp was to resort to shoving contests. I hope this helps I highly suggest you check out your zombies and stuff, they are pretty strong and way cooler than shoving contests. :)
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 06:27 PM CDT
Pretty sure he wants zombies AND shoving to work; not shoving in place of zombies. I know that's what I want.
REASONMJ
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 07:03 PM CDT
>>We have a bigger problem here if the current good communication is really just an experiment.
There's nothing new about DR GMs being active on the forums, letting inputs from players drive design decisions, and providing updates on statuses of projects. That has gone on forever.
What's new is that current GMs implement changes much faster, so "I like that idea but would never have time for it" becomes "sure, done"; and "not a chance, too complicated" becomes "maybe if I can find time to get around to it"
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
There's nothing new about DR GMs being active on the forums, letting inputs from players drive design decisions, and providing updates on statuses of projects. That has gone on forever.
What's new is that current GMs implement changes much faster, so "I like that idea but would never have time for it" becomes "sure, done"; and "not a chance, too complicated" becomes "maybe if I can find time to get around to it"
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
SEBESTYEN64
Re: Tactics.
06/14/2013 10:28 PM CDT
Kudos to the GM's. There are other things that I find more important that are broken in regard to PvP and shove is better if it doesn't work at all than how it was working before. Since PvP is not the primary reason for me playing this game it is no big deal if GM's get to them when they can.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
06/15/2013 07:32 AM CDT
>You should try using your pet...
I use my petS this isn't about that.
>To be honest I would be angry if the only way I could win in pvp was to resort to shoving contests.
So would I. Again your missing the point.
>It seems you wish tactics to be a weapon that makes you a viable melee combatant with no need of using your pets and that ( as far as I know ) is just not the design of Necromancers.
Really? Me asking to have it adjusted to usable and you jump to some conclusion about me wanting it to be some be all end all melee stopping warhorse?
>Pretty sure he wants zombies AND shoving to work; not shoving in place of zombies.
Yes, APATHETICSMILE. Well close, In testing some of the other manuevers and results suggested a few other tactical manuevers were a little unbalanced as well. So I would like to be able to use another skillset for some variety in my combat other than command zombie attack and debil/tm spam till I'm out of mana (which don't take long at all) then stand there and not be able to do much else.
>There are other things that I find more important that are broken in regard to PvP
Yes, Seb there are other broken things but this is the one on topic here.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
I use my petS this isn't about that.
>To be honest I would be angry if the only way I could win in pvp was to resort to shoving contests.
So would I. Again your missing the point.
>It seems you wish tactics to be a weapon that makes you a viable melee combatant with no need of using your pets and that ( as far as I know ) is just not the design of Necromancers.
Really? Me asking to have it adjusted to usable and you jump to some conclusion about me wanting it to be some be all end all melee stopping warhorse?
>Pretty sure he wants zombies AND shoving to work; not shoving in place of zombies.
Yes, APATHETICSMILE. Well close, In testing some of the other manuevers and results suggested a few other tactical manuevers were a little unbalanced as well. So I would like to be able to use another skillset for some variety in my combat other than command zombie attack and debil/tm spam till I'm out of mana (which don't take long at all) then stand there and not be able to do much else.
>There are other things that I find more important that are broken in regard to PvP
Yes, Seb there are other broken things but this is the one on topic here.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Tactics.
06/15/2013 06:12 PM CDT
>Pretty sure he wants zombies AND shoving to work; not shoving in place of zombies.
I'm not sure why pets were brought up at all; this issue affects Empaths too, arguably more so. This isn't a Necromancer issue; this is a Tactics issue.
I'm not sure why pets were brought up at all; this issue affects Empaths too, arguably more so. This isn't a Necromancer issue; this is a Tactics issue.
GORTEOUS
Re: Tactics.
06/16/2013 05:22 AM CDT
There was no 'quick' fix of SHOVE in the literal sense of the word - Leilond and I posted about the one-sided contest back in January or February, and was brought up several times from then to when it received attention several months later.
For most of our spars, he exploited the hell out of it and even as a Lore prime with the highest Tactics skill in Prime, was able to confirm that the check was very one-sided.
I'm not sure what has been done with it since last time I posted, but seen a 130th MM getting success vs a 160ish barb a few days ago. Not sure if anything has been changed, but that stuck out.
FWIW
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
For most of our spars, he exploited the hell out of it and even as a Lore prime with the highest Tactics skill in Prime, was able to confirm that the check was very one-sided.
I'm not sure what has been done with it since last time I posted, but seen a 130th MM getting success vs a 160ish barb a few days ago. Not sure if anything has been changed, but that stuck out.
FWIW
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tactics.
06/16/2013 10:15 AM CDT
Heh, sorry everyone but things do come up and sidetrack me. Getting horribly sick this month and having family in the hospital... complicated matters.
I understand that isn't good enough for people. But there just isn't anything else I can do. The hurt-filled words hurt, though. And this isn't some "experiment". What the heck does that even mean? GAH!
We will let you know when I have more information for you.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I understand that isn't good enough for people. But there just isn't anything else I can do. The hurt-filled words hurt, though. And this isn't some "experiment". What the heck does that even mean? GAH!
We will let you know when I have more information for you.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tactics.
06/16/2013 11:34 AM CDT
Alright, the defensive calculation when using tactics on other players should now be fixed. SHOVE is not going to be the overpowered instant-win button of PvP that it was for a short time, but it should prove useful when used at the appropriate time. Please let me know what you think.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
SEBESTYEN64
Re: Tactics.
06/16/2013 12:08 PM CDT
Sounds good! Sidetracking happens.. glad ya feeling better and hope all is well on the IRL front.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
YANSHADEY
Re: Tactics.
06/16/2013 01:38 PM CDT
Thank you for the work. It is appreciated. Hope you continue to feel better.
KHIOL
Re: Tactics.
06/16/2013 04:41 PM CDT
Ok tested 435 tactics vs 360's defend, 400 tactics vs 435 defend, 400 tactics vs 300 defend, 400 tactics vs 195 defend, 200 tactics vs 365 defend and I <3 your face right now Kodius. Will get more in depth as opportunity arises but as of this initial test round seems like what I been looking for outta this skill entirely. It seems like a fair balanced contest now.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
HEITAK
Re: Tactics.
06/17/2013 12:38 AM CDT
I did some testing and the contests seem much better, though even when fighting someone with far less brawl/tactics than my brawl/defending I found it very hard to break grapple. I feel it should still be looked at. Also has the bug where people can grapple and go invisible been looked at? As it was when last I checked someone could grapple you, and then go invisible. A huge bug when they are using cyclic spells or some other form to attack you. It just holds you in place and unless you can keep searching them through invisible somehow, you end up stuck not being able to do anything. Anyhow I hope it was fixed as well, maybe don't let the grapple ability be used when someone is invisible or once they are it will no longer work? It must be a bug because if I'm grappling you I can attack you and with invisibility, you can't. Kudos to the work though it took someone with a fair amount of tactics over my defending to be able to shove me as it should be.
