Is there a way we can get the new MIU changes to factor into the Call Wind and Quake abilities of the Storhammers?
Pretty please with death and destruction on top?
NICOLELARANS
GS4-TAMUZ
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/13/2017 02:54 PM CDT
They use a very old system and do not currently require Magic Item Use, which is a large benefit to many users. I have not yet had a chance to review the new mechanics, but they would undoubtedly require Magic Item Use. That may not be desirable to all owners of the items.
ASGM
ASGM
NICOLELARANS
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/13/2017 04:16 PM CDT
Thanks for replying Tamuz!
Yeah, it makes sense that swapping out to the MIU system might not be ideal for some folks. On the flip side of that though, I honestly doubt any of the owners are using the Call Wind ability in the field just because the way the spell's math works. Maybe we could just switch the Call Wind ability to MIU required so it gets the bonus? (And leave Quake as it is)
Or maybe instead of switching to requiring MIU it could just get the bonus if you happen to have those ranks just to make up for the Call Wind math? (I know, I know, I'm asking for the pony AND the stable here)
Or maybe just an inherent bonus for the Call Wind ability to make it work better against like-leveled opponents? (Pony, Stable, and Cowboy)
Yeah, it makes sense that swapping out to the MIU system might not be ideal for some folks. On the flip side of that though, I honestly doubt any of the owners are using the Call Wind ability in the field just because the way the spell's math works. Maybe we could just switch the Call Wind ability to MIU required so it gets the bonus? (And leave Quake as it is)
Or maybe instead of switching to requiring MIU it could just get the bonus if you happen to have those ranks just to make up for the Call Wind math? (I know, I know, I'm asking for the pony AND the stable here)
Or maybe just an inherent bonus for the Call Wind ability to make it work better against like-leveled opponents? (Pony, Stable, and Cowboy)
VEYTHORNE
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/13/2017 06:22 PM CDT
Maybe instead of making special exceptions for a weapon that casts a profession circle spell, the spell itself could be updated so it works better for anyone with access to it.
If these types of weapons got a boost to the point where it works better than if a wizard cast the spell, that wouldn't sit well.
If these types of weapons got a boost to the point where it works better than if a wizard cast the spell, that wouldn't sit well.
DOUG
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/13/2017 06:41 PM CDT
Ya know, I was thinking about this the other day.
And I have to say - it doesn't really bother me when a really unique and powerful item can do better than my wizard can. That's a couple of key words there, though - unique and powerful.
I get more concerned with just 'general spell availability'. So if (big if, mind you) there was an artifact out there that could Call Wind as well as or better than a 100 trained wizard with 100 ranks of air lore, and it were singular in the lands, I think I'd welcome it.
Of course, I'd be bidding on it, too. . . ;)
Doug
And I have to say - it doesn't really bother me when a really unique and powerful item can do better than my wizard can. That's a couple of key words there, though - unique and powerful.
I get more concerned with just 'general spell availability'. So if (big if, mind you) there was an artifact out there that could Call Wind as well as or better than a 100 trained wizard with 100 ranks of air lore, and it were singular in the lands, I think I'd welcome it.
Of course, I'd be bidding on it, too. . . ;)
Doug
NICOLELARANS
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/13/2017 07:49 PM CDT
Honestly, given that these are double mana to cast the spells- there's no concern of it being better than a wizard's native cast.
Though to be clear- the ask here isn't to make this weapon cast as well as a fully loaded, capped wizard. It's just to set it up so that one of its two core offensive abilities works well enough to use. At cap, the Call Wind ability usually doesn't knock anything in the room over unless it's 5-10 levels below your own. (And even then, it's generally not throwing things into offensive)
These ARE special weapons, and they're amazing for so many reasons (the lore/history, the abilities, the loresong, etc). So on one hand, I feel bad asking for any upgrade to it (I really do), but, on the other hand, these were auction weapons so I agree with Doug that it's okay to give them some special love.
Though to be clear- the ask here isn't to make this weapon cast as well as a fully loaded, capped wizard. It's just to set it up so that one of its two core offensive abilities works well enough to use. At cap, the Call Wind ability usually doesn't knock anything in the room over unless it's 5-10 levels below your own. (And even then, it's generally not throwing things into offensive)
These ARE special weapons, and they're amazing for so many reasons (the lore/history, the abilities, the loresong, etc). So on one hand, I feel bad asking for any upgrade to it (I really do), but, on the other hand, these were auction weapons so I agree with Doug that it's okay to give them some special love.
ALLENM20
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/13/2017 09:22 PM CDT
Chiming in here to say I agree with the original poster that these auction quality weapons should at least function well against like level opponents. The black steel no-dachi has a puncture based major e-wave that is very weak considering it can only be used twice per day during the final release form of the no-dachi at a spirit cost. 1 spirit to release, 2 spirit to release into final form, and yet more spirit to use the major e-wave ability.
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
VEYTHORNE
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/14/2017 12:24 AM CDT
>Honestly, given that these are double mana to cast the spells- there's no concern of it being better than a wizard's native cast.
I disagree. There is a concern if a paladin can cast a wizard profession spell better than a wizard, even if it costs twice the mana.
>Though to be clear- the ask here isn't to make this weapon cast as well as a fully loaded, capped wizard.
But you are, and you would have to play a wizard to understand that. The spell doesn't work on a lot of capped creatures. It's lack of ability to hit creatures isn't because it's being cast by your weapon, that's the design of the spell, it doesn't work very well even for wizards who are well trained.
>It's just to set it up so that one of its two core offensive abilities works well enough to use.
I too would would like one the wizards core disablers to work well enough to use.
>These ARE special weapons, and they're amazing for so many reasons (the lore/history, the abilities, the loresong, etc). So on one hand, I feel bad asking for any upgrade to it (I really do), but, on the other hand, these were auction weapons so I agree with Doug that it's okay to give them some special love.
They are amazing, which is why you should be happy with it. But I disagree that your weapon should receive spell treatment that makes it function better than what a wizard is capable of when casting their own spell.
I disagree. There is a concern if a paladin can cast a wizard profession spell better than a wizard, even if it costs twice the mana.
>Though to be clear- the ask here isn't to make this weapon cast as well as a fully loaded, capped wizard.
But you are, and you would have to play a wizard to understand that. The spell doesn't work on a lot of capped creatures. It's lack of ability to hit creatures isn't because it's being cast by your weapon, that's the design of the spell, it doesn't work very well even for wizards who are well trained.
>It's just to set it up so that one of its two core offensive abilities works well enough to use.
I too would would like one the wizards core disablers to work well enough to use.
>These ARE special weapons, and they're amazing for so many reasons (the lore/history, the abilities, the loresong, etc). So on one hand, I feel bad asking for any upgrade to it (I really do), but, on the other hand, these were auction weapons so I agree with Doug that it's okay to give them some special love.
They are amazing, which is why you should be happy with it. But I disagree that your weapon should receive spell treatment that makes it function better than what a wizard is capable of when casting their own spell.
KRAKII
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/14/2017 09:51 AM CDT
Like Doug, I don't have any real squawks about Auction items with nifty stuff going on.
I don't even care if it is as good as a Wizard, or possibly even better, because they're frequently for double the mana, or also require a particular skill or other threshold to be able to trigger. (Not necessarily these stormhammers, but like needing MIU for the potion-flaring weapons, or "must have this much stat bonus" to avoid getting wounded by your own coraesine weapon or whatever. [Although both of these are much easier to work with, now that there are Enhancives.])
Auction item. By definition, NOT everyone and their brother is going to have one. (There were two of these stormhammers, at the recent Auction. In prior history, there were two created for the 1998 Auction already.)
.
https://gswiki.play.net/Double-strike_weapons_(saved_post)
In other news... anyone know if either of the older two (the fel- and glaes-hafted heavy granite stormhammers) are still extant? And who has 'em?
I don't even care if it is as good as a Wizard, or possibly even better, because they're frequently for double the mana, or also require a particular skill or other threshold to be able to trigger. (Not necessarily these stormhammers, but like needing MIU for the potion-flaring weapons, or "must have this much stat bonus" to avoid getting wounded by your own coraesine weapon or whatever. [Although both of these are much easier to work with, now that there are Enhancives.])
Auction item. By definition, NOT everyone and their brother is going to have one. (There were two of these stormhammers, at the recent Auction. In prior history, there were two created for the 1998 Auction already.)
.
https://gswiki.play.net/Double-strike_weapons_(saved_post)
In other news... anyone know if either of the older two (the fel- and glaes-hafted heavy granite stormhammers) are still extant? And who has 'em?
VEYTHORNE
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/14/2017 12:30 PM CDT
I like auction items with nifty stuff, but I don't recall anything sold at the auction working as good for anyone as it would for the profession with the innate ability. Some things weren't even unlocked to their full capabilities such as the ethereal armor.
I see the double mana cost as the cost for having access to a profession spell, not as some kind of indicator for how powerful the ability is.
If it's supposed to be better because it came from the auction, I received something from the auction that is no better than similar items of its nature, does that mean I get an upgrade too?
I see the double mana cost as the cost for having access to a profession spell, not as some kind of indicator for how powerful the ability is.
If it's supposed to be better because it came from the auction, I received something from the auction that is no better than similar items of its nature, does that mean I get an upgrade too?
ARCHSENEX
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/14/2017 12:47 PM CDT
I think the big disconnect is that people don't understand how effective the spell is supposed to be. The MIU changes are not intended to bring any spell up to "better" than a native caster, and they don't (Excepting Pures that are not 2x in spells, but that is a choice to be below your expected amount as a pure).
If the Storm Hammers are brought onto the MIU system, unless it works a lot differently than how it's been explained so far, I'd be surprised if it makes any difference at all to the effect, because the new MIU only applies to the instantly cast CS when the spell is initially cast (and Call Wind doesn't do a warding check on first cast). So it would end up being a lot like 319 in the new system... no different than it used to be.
If somebody really wants to check, 912 is totally imbeddable. See if suddenly an MIU-based 912 used by a sorc or something is suddenly too much better, and talk about that. there's already a way for anybody to get 912 items, after all.
I'd recommend people focus on the requests as such:
Call Wind may need to be buffed for Natives
Call Wind on imbeds may need to be buffed for MIU Users
These items may need to be buffed or converted to MIU
And stop diving too much into the details from the outside.
If the Storm Hammers are brought onto the MIU system, unless it works a lot differently than how it's been explained so far, I'd be surprised if it makes any difference at all to the effect, because the new MIU only applies to the instantly cast CS when the spell is initially cast (and Call Wind doesn't do a warding check on first cast). So it would end up being a lot like 319 in the new system... no different than it used to be.
If somebody really wants to check, 912 is totally imbeddable. See if suddenly an MIU-based 912 used by a sorc or something is suddenly too much better, and talk about that. there's already a way for anybody to get 912 items, after all.
I'd recommend people focus on the requests as such:
Call Wind may need to be buffed for Natives
Call Wind on imbeds may need to be buffed for MIU Users
These items may need to be buffed or converted to MIU
And stop diving too much into the details from the outside.
SVEN2010
Re: MIU Changes and Stormhammers
08/14/2017 08:52 PM CDT
The new MIU changes come with maneuver bonuses for manuever-based spells
