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Hey folks,
We've recently been made abundantly aware that players have been making use of the Talondown Arena on the Firebird as a zone for spellups, lockpicking, item sales, cats and dogs living together, and all manner of other mass hysteria. This is obviously not in line with the original goal for the Talondown Arena, which was intended for one purpose only: to let players from various communities have a central place for Spirit Beast battles.
I would say I'm disappointed that this has come about, but 1) no one cares, and 2) this is ultimately on me for not predicting how this area would be used to bypass systems that are otherwise a perk restricted to our Premium customers. I apologize for not making it clearer when the Talondown was released that these behaviors were an abuse of game mechanics, and I'm displeased with myself for my lack of foresight.
At any rate, these issues have been remedied. I expect there will be players who choose to test the new restrictions in place to find workarounds. My advice: don't.
Further abuse of the arena will be considered game mechanics abuse and will carry commensurate penalties. I'm sorry it had to come to this.
Auchand
ASGM, World Development
GS4-AUCHAND
GNARBLE
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 06:03 PM CDT
Can we expect a replacement in the form of a player mail delivery system during HSN?
Jk, but wondering if a system players want and have waited for decades had a place in line besides "nerf the place i go to give a new player a runestaff".
Jk, but wondering if a system players want and have waited for decades had a place in line besides "nerf the place i go to give a new player a runestaff".
ERYKK2
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 06:05 PM CDT
If there were a mail system in place, people wouldn't have abused it nearly as much.
There is/was no other way to easily exchange items between players in different parts of the world. I found that part extremely useful. I am a premium subscriber, but it shouldn't cost $40 a month to avoid the hassle of trying to arrange a meet up for an item exchange when people play in different towns.
There is/was no other way to easily exchange items between players in different parts of the world. I found that part extremely useful. I am a premium subscriber, but it shouldn't cost $40 a month to avoid the hassle of trying to arrange a meet up for an item exchange when people play in different towns.
DRAFIX
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 06:07 PM CDT
That's what the mentor's hall Silverwood Manor is for... too bad they always close their doors now... for this same exact reason.
Oh well. Regardless you could try tossing your noob gear into the donation barrel infront of the Silverwood Manor. However that barrel is finicky and won't accept lots of half decent gear or gear that is actually good but has low value hence won't be accepted for donation. What a primadonna barrel.
Oh well. Regardless you could try tossing your noob gear into the donation barrel infront of the Silverwood Manor. However that barrel is finicky and won't accept lots of half decent gear or gear that is actually good but has low value hence won't be accepted for donation. What a primadonna barrel.
GS4-AUCHAND
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 06:13 PM CDT
>Can we expect a replacement in the form of a player mail delivery system during HSN?
You're looking for World Systems, not World Development.
No, not to be cavalier about it, but I don't have any connection to the Player Mail system and can't comment on its development state with any level of knowledge.
Auchand
ASGM, World Development
You're looking for World Systems, not World Development.
No, not to be cavalier about it, but I don't have any connection to the Player Mail system and can't comment on its development state with any level of knowledge.
Auchand
ASGM, World Development
PCOFFEY77
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 06:13 PM CDT
>If there were a mail system in place, people wouldn't have abused it nearly as much.
They have locker runners and urchins, don't see why there can't be a delivery service. There's even a messenger in the Landing that doesn't do much but be hard to find when you need to. Bout time we get some kind of rolton delivery service.
They have locker runners and urchins, don't see why there can't be a delivery service. There's even a messenger in the Landing that doesn't do much but be hard to find when you need to. Bout time we get some kind of rolton delivery service.
RROY
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 07:15 PM CDT
The problem is that premium is an outdated system and most of the perks are a. outdated, b. take to long to acquire, or readily available elsewhere. Many people with the advent of the Simu Coins store would rather mix and match the things they want from there, but without the obligation to spend an extra 25 a month.
I have myself used Talondown, but will discontinue to do so as I don't want to get in trouble for abuse. Will this entice me to go Premie? Nope, I prefer the Simu coins purchases and I'm not going to do both.
Just an elf about town...
KEITHOBAD
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 08:24 PM CDT
I was away for a few months and on my return this Talondown thing as a place to exchange goods was explained to me. I thought it was a terrific new change!
A shame it's considered abuse, I guess that's the end of that.
I get that it's an advantage for FWI but I find the whole thing rather OOC tbh. Not a big fan.
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 09:14 PM CDT
I think it's a bit absurd to state that this is player abuse when in fact mostly all MMO Games these days have multiple locations for people to meet up. So it's ok in Duskruin but not Talondown? Both places are arenas and people typically exchange spells in both areas. Not quite sure how you can consider it game abuse in one case but not the other?
CANNONCD
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 09:36 PM CDT
Like he said, being able to meet up from different towns is meant to be a Premium perk.
I suppose it fits better into Simu's business model to not be like other MMOG's, and to make common locations a Premium thing.
IMHO, using Talondown strictly for spellups or item exchanges would fit into the "mechanics abuse" category. Technically Duskruin would, too, except it's just too hard to police since spellups for arena use are expected, as are item exchanges for loresinging or whatnot.
I suppose it fits better into Simu's business model to not be like other MMOG's, and to make common locations a Premium thing.
IMHO, using Talondown strictly for spellups or item exchanges would fit into the "mechanics abuse" category. Technically Duskruin would, too, except it's just too hard to police since spellups for arena use are expected, as are item exchanges for loresinging or whatnot.
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/26/2015 09:50 PM CDT
One is a temporary short term village event and the other is a permanent spirit beast battle area.
RROY
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 03:23 AM CDT
Access to Four Winds for the purpose of swapping, spells, items etc... might be a good Simu Coins item... I'd fork over 5 bucks for that...
Just an elf about town...
DOUG
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 06:52 AM CDT
I got the impression the point was going forward it would be considered abuse.
Doug
Doug
ASPEN
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 07:37 AM CDT
Tangentially related, in game mail system is when?
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 07:50 AM CDT
I fail to see the logic behind it being game mechanics abuse. If two premmy accounts meet up there and are pet battling and then spell each other up before leaving how in the world is doing something you would typically do else where even remotely considered abuse? When interacting with other players there how would you know what type of account you have? Having these situational imaginary rules that are deemed mechanics abuse is ridiculous. When it is something people typically do to interact and help each other.
I like to spell up and help people whenever I can and I don't see why one would be punished for this.
I also don't see the justification of Duskruin being a temp area so it's ok in that case. Sounds like another assumption about the rules that don't exist around this.
I honestly don't care either way. I just want the rules clearly laid out and why one situation is valid over the other.
Also I think you guys have done a great job with Talondown and the pet system and this is in no way a knock against this. Just trying to understand the rules and why they are situational. I understand just not being able to cast in these areas. I just can't see one being punished or being told they are disappointed in us for being able to use a function their character is capable of when they were able to do it and also do it in other areas like FWI and duskruin.
I like to spell up and help people whenever I can and I don't see why one would be punished for this.
I also don't see the justification of Duskruin being a temp area so it's ok in that case. Sounds like another assumption about the rules that don't exist around this.
I honestly don't care either way. I just want the rules clearly laid out and why one situation is valid over the other.
Also I think you guys have done a great job with Talondown and the pet system and this is in no way a knock against this. Just trying to understand the rules and why they are situational. I understand just not being able to cast in these areas. I just can't see one being punished or being told they are disappointed in us for being able to use a function their character is capable of when they were able to do it and also do it in other areas like FWI and duskruin.
COLEMANJ
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 08:10 AM CDT
I think it's a bit more specific than you're getting at.
Player A in Ta'Illistm wants to buy an item that Player B in Icemule has. So Player B says, "Hey, meet in on Talondown and we'll exchange coins for the item" That's a mechanics abuse.
MAXMANJ
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 08:18 AM CDT
<< Player A in Ta'Illistm wants to buy an item that Player B in Icemule has. So Player B says, "Hey, meet in on Talondown and we'll exchange coins for the item" That's a mechanics abuse. >>
Right, and there is only one permanent place for that to happen by design. Duskruin being temporary isn't a big enough deal to warrant cracking down on. Talondown being permanent is.
Josh
Right, and there is only one permanent place for that to happen by design. Duskruin being temporary isn't a big enough deal to warrant cracking down on. Talondown being permanent is.
Josh
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 08:22 AM CDT
If player a and b are both premmy users and one just so happened to be in Talondown and asked if they could meet them there while they were pet battling. Then how would that be abuse if they can currently trade in that location?
It's like someone not wanting to step out of duskruin and asking if someone could just bring a note for an enhancive they are selling them to the duskruin location.
It's like someone not wanting to step out of duskruin and asking if someone could just bring a note for an enhancive they are selling them to the duskruin location.
DOUG
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 08:54 AM CDT
>>player a and b are both premmy users
and
>>someone not wanting to step out of duskruin and asking if someone could just bring a note
are not always equal, and in those cases where not equal - it would therefore be circumvention.
What I don't know (haven't ever set foot in TalonDown with anyone) is whether or not that area that was recently changed allows for transport to FWI. If it doesn't, it needs to.
And I like the idea of being able to buy / find one-time use and short-term use items to move to FWI, without any of the other ancillary benefits (merchants, etc.) if that were feasible. Not sure I like the Coin Store as the distribution option, though.
Doug
and
>>someone not wanting to step out of duskruin and asking if someone could just bring a note
are not always equal, and in those cases where not equal - it would therefore be circumvention.
What I don't know (haven't ever set foot in TalonDown with anyone) is whether or not that area that was recently changed allows for transport to FWI. If it doesn't, it needs to.
And I like the idea of being able to buy / find one-time use and short-term use items to move to FWI, without any of the other ancillary benefits (merchants, etc.) if that were feasible. Not sure I like the Coin Store as the distribution option, though.
Doug
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 09:34 AM CDT
My main problem here is that people are being told they were abusing mechanics when no one really knew they were. If you don't want people doing a function they can do else where just stop it from happening and leave it at that.
If a new player came into the game since Talondown existed and were told to meet there on many occasions. They would not be able to know what they were doing is considered mechanics abuse when it's something they have been doing from the start.
The game is overwhelming at times as is for new players now you expect them to know vague rules that don't exist? It's not like someone casted a spell or used some sort of item that exploited the area to allow them to spell someone up or trade. Temp area or not... The area allowed it!
If a new player came into the game since Talondown existed and were told to meet there on many occasions. They would not be able to know what they were doing is considered mechanics abuse when it's something they have been doing from the start.
The game is overwhelming at times as is for new players now you expect them to know vague rules that don't exist? It's not like someone casted a spell or used some sort of item that exploited the area to allow them to spell someone up or trade. Temp area or not... The area allowed it!
DOUG
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 09:46 AM CDT
I hear ya, Neovik - I wasn't there for any of this, so I don't know what might have been said individually. I only have the notice Auchand put forward, in which he states 'use' of the players and the fact that it wasn't within game parameters.
He then goes on to state going forward that the 'issue' had been resolved and that it would be considered game mechanics abuse going forward.
So, my take from only the the announcement - I didn't get the sense anyone was accused of 'abusing' it up to the point the 'issue' was resolved, but going forward it is clear it would be considered exactly that.
I don't really like the word 'further', as it would seem to be a very charged word that would line up with your implications - but it doesn't occur until well after 'issue resolved' statement. So that is ambiguous (sadly).
If you were told personally in email on in game, I'd say that's relevant but should be sent to feedback. If you're responding to the post, I think your position might be overstating the case Auchand put forward by a touch. And he has apologized for it (permitting it).
Doug
He then goes on to state going forward that the 'issue' had been resolved and that it would be considered game mechanics abuse going forward.
So, my take from only the the announcement - I didn't get the sense anyone was accused of 'abusing' it up to the point the 'issue' was resolved, but going forward it is clear it would be considered exactly that.
I don't really like the word 'further', as it would seem to be a very charged word that would line up with your implications - but it doesn't occur until well after 'issue resolved' statement. So that is ambiguous (sadly).
If you were told personally in email on in game, I'd say that's relevant but should be sent to feedback. If you're responding to the post, I think your position might be overstating the case Auchand put forward by a touch. And he has apologized for it (permitting it).
Doug
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 09:49 AM CDT
>cats and dogs living together, and all manner of other mass hysteria. -Auchand
"Is this true?"
~ Methais
"Is this true?"
~ Methais
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 10:02 AM CDT
I think I was just focused on the part where he was disappointed that people were doing it and it was deemed to be mechanics abuse. It's just way to vague of a scenario to make that type of statement. Especially when we do have duskruin and FWI to do that. I'm also premmy so with me going there and doing it how am I abusing mechanics when I can typically do it any way? Was I suppose to card someone in Talondown and ask them if their account status was premium?
I'm not mad about this. I just don't feel it's right to make people feel guilty over something they had no idea was wrong.
I'm not mad about this. I just don't feel it's right to make people feel guilty over something they had no idea was wrong.
ERYKK2
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 10:11 AM CDT
<<
I think it's a bit more specific than you're getting at.
Player A in Ta'Illistm wants to buy an item that Player B in Icemule has. So Player B says, "Hey, meet in on Talondown and we'll exchange coins for the item" That's a mechanics abuse.
>>
I call that enjoyable convenience.
I think it's a bit more specific than you're getting at.
Player A in Ta'Illistm wants to buy an item that Player B in Icemule has. So Player B says, "Hey, meet in on Talondown and we'll exchange coins for the item" That's a mechanics abuse.
>>
I call that enjoyable convenience.
FAKEONE
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 03:30 PM CDT
It is just awful when players in a multiplayer game want to experience a community. This is in no way mechanics abuse of any kind, it is players managing to find a method to get around poor design decisions made by Simutronics.
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 03:36 PM CDT
Nope. It's called immersion that keeps you within the game experience. That includes distance, gameplay, mechanics and story. When an OOC mechanic or area breaks it such as out of place mechanics, too simple or complex and generally OOC it breaks those guidelines for the game unless it's a Deadpool RPG.
This is where Talondown is abuse. It's not meant to be a community feature and people using it as one are circumventing distance and suspending or breaking immersion elements.
This is where Talondown is abuse. It's not meant to be a community feature and people using it as one are circumventing distance and suspending or breaking immersion elements.
ERYKK2
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 03:41 PM CDT
So meeting up over vast distances to play pokemon doesn't break immersion, but meeting up over vast distances to exchange items or spells does? Yeah, ok.
KRAKII
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 03:51 PM CDT
"So meeting up over vast distances to play pokemon in a magical arena magically created to bring people together by magic for the specific purpose of playing those games doesn't break immersion, but meeting up over vast distances to exchange items or spells does?" -- ErykK2
Fixed that for you, too.
Fixed that for you, too.
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 04:03 PM CDT
Erykk,
Could you please stop posting? Everywhere.
Thanks,
Firephoenix (Profile lets you add your character name btw)
Could you please stop posting? Everywhere.
Thanks,
Firephoenix (Profile lets you add your character name btw)
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 04:06 PM CDT
I like the pokemon features and the magical arena. I think it's a pretty cool addition to the game and they did a very good job with it all. On top of it all... It's a free addition!
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 04:08 PM CDT
I think FWI breaks immersion! I also think Duskruin wagons/boats moving faster than all of the ships breaks immersion. Atleast in this case it's a portal and it makes more sense.
COLEMANJ
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 04:10 PM CDT
My main problem here is that people are being told they were abusing mechanics when no one really knew they were. If you don't want people doing a function they can do else where just stop it from happening and leave it at that.
Again, I think you're reading more into it than is.
Auchand said he was taking the blame himself, that no one was being punished. He also said that if people CONTINUED to do so it would be considered abuse of game mechanics. It just seems like at this point, people are fussing for the sake of fussing. I really think it's much easier, at this point, to just say "Oh, okay" and move on and not do it anymore.
Again, I think you're reading more into it than is.
Auchand said he was taking the blame himself, that no one was being punished. He also said that if people CONTINUED to do so it would be considered abuse of game mechanics. It just seems like at this point, people are fussing for the sake of fussing. I really think it's much easier, at this point, to just say "Oh, okay" and move on and not do it anymore.
ERYKK2
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 04:25 PM CDT
<<
Erykk,
Could you please stop posting? Everywhere.
Thanks,
Firephoenix (Profile lets you add your character name btw)
>>
If you don't like me pointing out how your post is non-sense, you are welcome to not read the boards. Or heck, you can even ignore posters if you want to keep posting non-sense!
Erykk,
Could you please stop posting? Everywhere.
Thanks,
Firephoenix (Profile lets you add your character name btw)
>>
If you don't like me pointing out how your post is non-sense, you are welcome to not read the boards. Or heck, you can even ignore posters if you want to keep posting non-sense!
FIREPHOENIX
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 04:44 PM CDT
Good suggestion on ignore. I'm less inclined to care for me personally, but I'd counter with you rarely make a real point other than slander. We'd be better off or atleast you're points might get heard if you just opted to stop posting your vitriol. As that doesn't appear to be the case, carry on with your word war over in Wizards, Bards, here and anywhere else I can't recall immediately.
Yet, I guess we can just wait for your ragequit, which is RSN as you've stated, otherwise you could just clean up your bitterness and post with less of an internet anonymity aura. It's a shame I read the boards at the rate I do or Aulis would probably have removed a good amount of your posts that are bothersome.
Yet, I guess we can just wait for your ragequit, which is RSN as you've stated, otherwise you could just clean up your bitterness and post with less of an internet anonymity aura. It's a shame I read the boards at the rate I do or Aulis would probably have removed a good amount of your posts that are bothersome.
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 05:17 PM CDT
Can't we all just get along! Go ninja go ninja go!!! Go! go! Ninja! ninja! rap!
ERYKK2
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 05:37 PM CDT
It's stuck in my head and I can't get it out!!!!
GS4-AUCHAND
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 07:30 PM CDT
>My main problem here is that people are being told they were abusing mechanics when no one really knew they were. If you don't want people doing a function they can do else where just stop it from happening and leave it at that.
I think I was super clear with this, here and elsewhere, but if I've left anything up to such a negative interpretation, let me fix it:
People who were using the Talondown to trade goods and services were just making use of its qualities.
Now, I've locked it down and made clear that those actions are no longer allowed. Trying to exploit the area for purposes beyond Spirit Beast-related stuff now would be considered abuse.
Auchand
ASGM, World Development
I think I was super clear with this, here and elsewhere, but if I've left anything up to such a negative interpretation, let me fix it:
People who were using the Talondown to trade goods and services were just making use of its qualities.
Now, I've locked it down and made clear that those actions are no longer allowed. Trying to exploit the area for purposes beyond Spirit Beast-related stuff now would be considered abuse.
Auchand
ASGM, World Development
GS4-AUCHAND
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/27/2015 07:32 PM CDT
>"Is this true?"
Yes, it's true. The Talondown has no--
Auchand
ASGM, World Development
Snowball Artist
Yes, it's true. The Talondown has no--
Auchand
ASGM, World Development
Snowball Artist
GAMING2K
Re: Talondown and Abuse
08/28/2015 08:10 AM CDT
Meh... Users exploiting something you developed is a learning opportunity as a developer. I typically welcome my users to try to break any of the applications I have designed and built. Is there anything wrong with exploiting if you report it or submit it as a bug? I would think you would want to know if someone stumbled onto something now that we know this was not intended.
