I've got a blunt/tower shield warrior a little less then half-way through level 58 that spends less TPs then come in. Until recently I was tossing the excess TPs at bringing Ambush up to 1x... but now that that's accomplished, I'm debating whether to toss them into Armor Use to get benefits of over-training for plate or if I should pick up a third weapon skill to boost her AS with the new release. Any opinions or things I'm over-looking?
(at level 58), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 250 150
Shield Use.........................| 280 180
Combat Maneuvers...................| 220 120
Blunt Weapons......................| 220 120
Brawling...........................| 220 120
Ambush.............................| 160 60
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 160 60
Physical Fitness...................| 220 120
Arcane Symbols.....................| 114 28
Perception.........................| 160 60
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15
Training Points: 0 Phy 17 Mnt (608 Mnt converted to Phy)
I'm keeping the AS training just so I can read scrolls I find even though KS won't let me cast off them anymore (not that I ever did outside invasions anyway).... and cause it's not worth bothering with a fixskills just to drop it.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
OM1E5GA
RATHBONER
Re: Excess points
11/01/2020 12:19 AM CDT
You can start untraining ambush soon. You are at or almost at the cap for open aiming skill. (400 for the sum of CMan and ambush less however much DEX adds)
I'd expect a warrior with that concentration on combat skills to be over 2x PF.
More MOC, you have got to the training where you don't pay any more RT when you add strikes so the next one is nicer than you might realise at the moment and a real game changer on UAC in my experience.
Armor is fine too, I reckoned the first overtraining on full plate had quite a noticeable effect.
I'd expect a warrior with that concentration on combat skills to be over 2x PF.
More MOC, you have got to the training where you don't pay any more RT when you add strikes so the next one is nicer than you might realise at the moment and a real game changer on UAC in my experience.
Armor is fine too, I reckoned the first overtraining on full plate had quite a noticeable effect.
OM1E5GA
Re: Excess points
11/01/2020 02:24 AM CST
Thanks, that gives me some food for thought.
Does going over 2x in PF really provide enough benefit to be worth the cost? From what I can see that would mostly be for the Redux and protection from poison/disease... more SMR protection is always nice but maneuvers don't often succeed on her (CS spells are the main thing I have to watch out for) and she has enough stamina that even with liberal use of maneuvers she's rarely at risk of popping muscles.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Does going over 2x in PF really provide enough benefit to be worth the cost? From what I can see that would mostly be for the Redux and protection from poison/disease... more SMR protection is always nice but maneuvers don't often succeed on her (CS spells are the main thing I have to watch out for) and she has enough stamina that even with liberal use of maneuvers she's rarely at risk of popping muscles.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KRAKII
Re: Excess points
11/01/2020 05:43 AM CST
My reading of the MOC page was that your recovery speed from doing an MStrike was also affected by PF ranks, so "more is better" on that front.
RATHBONER
Re: Excess points
11/01/2020 11:05 AM CST
>Does going over 2x in PF really provide enough benefit to be worth the cost?
I had lots of tertiary stuff which you are ignoring, so I was mostly listing the stuff I added near and immediately post cap. I've no idea how those things stack up against extra AS from tertiary weapon training, but from my current perspective of 3x cap, I think they were the right things for me to add to that training when I got the extra points.
Gnomes may disagree with giants. If you are convinced 3x PF isn't worth having as a gnome, the armor overtaining likely isn't worth having either and pushing MOC for the next strike earlier than you had planned would move up the priority list.
I took a lot more majors 80-cap than I did earlier with your style of training, or later as I added PF/DS immediately post cap. At the time I put it down to redux losing effectiveness, now I think it was offensive stance DS. You'll be getting benefits from shield points that didn't exist when I was your level though, so maybe that's good enough compensation.
Once you have extra mstrikes, using it in the cooldown will become attractive, and so will having rather more stamina to do that. I did run out of stamina on bandit tasks with 2x PF pre cap, but not with 3x post cap. When I had 2x PF I set mstrike to require confirmation in cooldown, with 3x I don't.
I had lots of tertiary stuff which you are ignoring, so I was mostly listing the stuff I added near and immediately post cap. I've no idea how those things stack up against extra AS from tertiary weapon training, but from my current perspective of 3x cap, I think they were the right things for me to add to that training when I got the extra points.
Gnomes may disagree with giants. If you are convinced 3x PF isn't worth having as a gnome, the armor overtaining likely isn't worth having either and pushing MOC for the next strike earlier than you had planned would move up the priority list.
I took a lot more majors 80-cap than I did earlier with your style of training, or later as I added PF/DS immediately post cap. At the time I put it down to redux losing effectiveness, now I think it was offensive stance DS. You'll be getting benefits from shield points that didn't exist when I was your level though, so maybe that's good enough compensation.
Once you have extra mstrikes, using it in the cooldown will become attractive, and so will having rather more stamina to do that. I did run out of stamina on bandit tasks with 2x PF pre cap, but not with 3x post cap. When I had 2x PF I set mstrike to require confirmation in cooldown, with 3x I don't.
OM1E5GA
Re: Excess points
11/01/2020 02:10 PM CST
Thanks, that def helps. My warrior's not a gnome though, she's a giantkin... I can't imagine trying to play a gnome in plate, prolly never get it off once I got it on!
Shield points do help, though the only defensive skills I've gotten with them so far have been Deflection Training and Block the Elements. If it wasn't for the arbalisters in the Citadel, I wouldn't bother with Deflection, but as fast as they are I'm gonna need all the advantages I can get against them.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Shield points do help, though the only defensive skills I've gotten with them so far have been Deflection Training and Block the Elements. If it wasn't for the arbalisters in the Citadel, I wouldn't bother with Deflection, but as fast as they are I'm gonna need all the advantages I can get against them.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Excess points
11/05/2020 12:23 AM CST
With the advent of martial mastery I would probably start dropping points into a third weapon skill, take that up to 1x, by the time you get there that will be an additional 8 AS. I also agree with considering more PF and armor. All 3 of those are super cheap. You could pretty safely dump all of your ambush and put a serious dent in all 3 of those, and not notice much change to your aiming.
OM1E5GA
Re: Excess points
11/05/2020 05:09 AM CST
<You could pretty safely dump all of your ambush and put a serious dent in all 3 of those, and not notice much change to your aiming.>
I might drop half the ambush once I'm done completely with tomb trolls, I still get the occasional bounty there though. With their healing abilities making attrition essentially not an option and necromancer spells still ending hunts (or killing me) if I let them live too long, I don't want my aiming abilities dropping by even an unnoticeable amount.
I have been coming around to the opinion that mstrike might be a better tactic with most critters in the Citadel, though.... heralds are glowing so badly hitting them hard enough to crit kill them is difficult and they're the only thing there that's a threat after being disarmed (I don't count apprentices cause I stay out of areas they roam). So, better to hit them as quickly as possible and hope to stun them if they don't die then risk a low roll with a single aimed shot. Guardsmen and arbilisters are easy enough to kill with a hit to the head/neck but don't need to be killed quickly... and swordsmen are noncorp so I'll be mstriking them anyway once I get the nerve to go down to the dungeon.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I might drop half the ambush once I'm done completely with tomb trolls, I still get the occasional bounty there though. With their healing abilities making attrition essentially not an option and necromancer spells still ending hunts (or killing me) if I let them live too long, I don't want my aiming abilities dropping by even an unnoticeable amount.
I have been coming around to the opinion that mstrike might be a better tactic with most critters in the Citadel, though.... heralds are glowing so badly hitting them hard enough to crit kill them is difficult and they're the only thing there that's a threat after being disarmed (I don't count apprentices cause I stay out of areas they roam). So, better to hit them as quickly as possible and hope to stun them if they don't die then risk a low roll with a single aimed shot. Guardsmen and arbilisters are easy enough to kill with a hit to the head/neck but don't need to be killed quickly... and swordsmen are noncorp so I'll be mstriking them anyway once I get the nerve to go down to the dungeon.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
RATHBONER
Re: Excess points
11/05/2020 11:55 AM CST
>... and swordsmen are noncorp so I'll be mstriking them anyway once I get the nerve to go down to the dungeon.
I'm not sure how mstrike will work on them. When I hunted there, fu was fu and they got jellied. At cap a quint strike with a star isn't really good enough for crusaders, and only just about good enough for defenders and Reim. Quad with monk UAC actually works better due to being able to eliminate EBP effects from UAC by tactics/training.
Assuming you have the society for it, I'd expect some version of smite/splat to be more effective than bleeding them with triples.
I'm not sure how mstrike will work on them. When I hunted there, fu was fu and they got jellied. At cap a quint strike with a star isn't really good enough for crusaders, and only just about good enough for defenders and Reim. Quad with monk UAC actually works better due to being able to eliminate EBP effects from UAC by tactics/training.
Assuming you have the society for it, I'd expect some version of smite/splat to be more effective than bleeding them with triples.
OM1E5GA
Re: Excess points
11/05/2020 01:24 PM CST
<Assuming you have the society for it, I'd expect some version of smite/splat to be more effective than bleeding them with triples.>
Possibly, I haven't had any problems killing the ones that wander onto other floors via mstrike, though. I'm really not too concerned about killing them quickly since they're pretty much harmless once they're disarmed (unless they get their hands on one of those red hammer or kais before I can pick it up). It's the heralds I'm more concerned about since they have a whole arsenal of ways to ruin a warrior's day unless they're subdued quickly.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Possibly, I haven't had any problems killing the ones that wander onto other floors via mstrike, though. I'm really not too concerned about killing them quickly since they're pretty much harmless once they're disarmed (unless they get their hands on one of those red hammer or kais before I can pick it up). It's the heralds I'm more concerned about since they have a whole arsenal of ways to ruin a warrior's day unless they're subdued quickly.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
