KELLYM40
Best cmans for warriors
05/25/2020 02:13 PM CDT
Let’s her what the experienced warriors like for cmans. While very early in trainings I think I will go for more passive type cmans. My cmans in no order will be wspec, weapon bonding, surge of str, evasive mastery. Getting tackle, berserk, feint, from the guild.
OM1E5GA
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/25/2020 03:06 PM CDT
>cman inf
XXXX, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Specialization I wspec1 5
Weapon Bonding bonding 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Whirling Dervish dervish 2
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 9
>shield inf
XXXX, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 5
Shield Bash bash 5
Shield Charge charge 2
Shield Spike Focus spikefocus 2
Deflection Training dtraining 1
Block the Elements eblock 2
Disarming Presence dpresence 3
Shield Trample trample 3
Available Shield Training Points: 6
I Shield Bash derned near everything that's susceptible to it. Puts them on the ground, stuns them, occasionally insta-kills... and my shield is spiked. What more can you ask for?
Since the Disarm changes I also disarm anything with a weapon unless it genned with a special weapon, knocks it into the shadows and they can't pick it back up and puts them in RT. Disarm a critter that carries a runestaff, their sky high DS is trashed... and not many weapon users can claw their way through my plate, so if something else wanders in I don't have to worry about what they'll do while I deal with the new threat.
Disarming Presence is my go-to martial stance, Whirling Dervish is nice but when there are multiple critters in the room I'm usually using open MTRIKE anyway... so I'll prolly go ahead and unlearn that if I ever decide to use a fixskills for some other reason.
Mobility has saved my butt more times then I can count since I got it, the other rank of that is the next thing I'm getting. WSPEC and Weapon Bonding were the first two CMANs I got... you're not really a warrior until you have a bonded weapon.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
XXXX, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Specialization I wspec1 5
Weapon Bonding bonding 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Whirling Dervish dervish 2
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 9
>shield inf
XXXX, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 5
Shield Bash bash 5
Shield Charge charge 2
Shield Spike Focus spikefocus 2
Deflection Training dtraining 1
Block the Elements eblock 2
Disarming Presence dpresence 3
Shield Trample trample 3
Available Shield Training Points: 6
I Shield Bash derned near everything that's susceptible to it. Puts them on the ground, stuns them, occasionally insta-kills... and my shield is spiked. What more can you ask for?
Since the Disarm changes I also disarm anything with a weapon unless it genned with a special weapon, knocks it into the shadows and they can't pick it back up and puts them in RT. Disarm a critter that carries a runestaff, their sky high DS is trashed... and not many weapon users can claw their way through my plate, so if something else wanders in I don't have to worry about what they'll do while I deal with the new threat.
Disarming Presence is my go-to martial stance, Whirling Dervish is nice but when there are multiple critters in the room I'm usually using open MTRIKE anyway... so I'll prolly go ahead and unlearn that if I ever decide to use a fixskills for some other reason.
Mobility has saved my butt more times then I can count since I got it, the other rank of that is the next thing I'm getting. WSPEC and Weapon Bonding were the first two CMANs I got... you're not really a warrior until you have a bonded weapon.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
CAVEMANIAC
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/25/2020 08:09 PM CDT
Evade mastery is not as effective in higher armor groups which you will want as a warrior. I would suggest parry mastery or block mastery if using a shield. For a martial stance I think stance of the mongoose is a good choice at early levels especially when paired with parry mastery. Griffins voice is also a great choice once you master warcries to help with crowd control and managing vocal stress
KELLYM40
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/25/2020 11:38 PM CDT
I just read the entire description for evade mastery....yeah 1% per rank for plate wearers is not worth it at all. Also that combat mobility seems sweet, maybe that spell parry to ward off bolt spells will be good as a future THW.
For defense against cmans you need to train the cman yourself or does high ranks/ bonus in cmans help enough?
RATHBONER
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/26/2020 02:41 AM CDT
>For defense against cmans you need to train the cman yourself or does high ranks/ bonus in cmans help enough?
My rule of thumb is that 1x at cap is the equivalent of 1 rank in a cman. Its not zero, but if you want serious amounts of defence against a cman, you need ranks in it.
>Let’s her what the experienced warriors like for cmans. While very early in trainings I think I will go for more passive type cmans. My cmans in no order will be wspec, weapon bonding, surge of str, evasive mastery. Getting tackle, berserk, feint, from the guild.
If you want to make serious active use of a CMan, train all 5 ranks (or get guild mastery asap). For passive use, the early ranks are the best value. Surge can be either, 1 rank is great value if you just want it for occasional use, but if you want to be running it almost all the time, get all 5. You should get the 1st rank in bashing as soon as you join the guild even if you aren't going to get the rest till you've mastered the other 5, because there are places like the GY gate where just being able to bash is what is important.
Griffin is good to have while you are training warcries, even if you don't intend to keep it. Executioner is a stance you might enjoy. I recommend having a knockdown, it may be tackle eventually, but the guild wall will keep you from mastering 3 skills for quite a while. Use the sub-20 fast migration to play with a few in your late teens and see whether there's one you like.
Coup is fun, though I reckon its just too slow and uncertain for serious use. However if you are swinging a big sword because you like gory messaging, coup is a great way to add to the variety you see, particularly if you chop off the critters right arm and use its weapon to coup with.
I have 1 rank in lots and lots of cmans, partly because the first rank is the best value for passive defense, and partly because I think a warrior ought to be able to headbutt the kobold that just drooled on his recently polished shiny plate. At low level though, it was surge, bonding, wspec, mobility. I played with headbutt, but it didn't work well enough for me, and I dumped it for active use.
My rule of thumb is that 1x at cap is the equivalent of 1 rank in a cman. Its not zero, but if you want serious amounts of defence against a cman, you need ranks in it.
>Let’s her what the experienced warriors like for cmans. While very early in trainings I think I will go for more passive type cmans. My cmans in no order will be wspec, weapon bonding, surge of str, evasive mastery. Getting tackle, berserk, feint, from the guild.
If you want to make serious active use of a CMan, train all 5 ranks (or get guild mastery asap). For passive use, the early ranks are the best value. Surge can be either, 1 rank is great value if you just want it for occasional use, but if you want to be running it almost all the time, get all 5. You should get the 1st rank in bashing as soon as you join the guild even if you aren't going to get the rest till you've mastered the other 5, because there are places like the GY gate where just being able to bash is what is important.
Griffin is good to have while you are training warcries, even if you don't intend to keep it. Executioner is a stance you might enjoy. I recommend having a knockdown, it may be tackle eventually, but the guild wall will keep you from mastering 3 skills for quite a while. Use the sub-20 fast migration to play with a few in your late teens and see whether there's one you like.
Coup is fun, though I reckon its just too slow and uncertain for serious use. However if you are swinging a big sword because you like gory messaging, coup is a great way to add to the variety you see, particularly if you chop off the critters right arm and use its weapon to coup with.
I have 1 rank in lots and lots of cmans, partly because the first rank is the best value for passive defense, and partly because I think a warrior ought to be able to headbutt the kobold that just drooled on his recently polished shiny plate. At low level though, it was surge, bonding, wspec, mobility. I played with headbutt, but it didn't work well enough for me, and I dumped it for active use.
RATHBONER
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/26/2020 02:55 AM CDT
>I Shield Bash derned near everything that's susceptible to it. Puts them on the ground, stuns them, occasionally insta-kills... and my shield is spiked. What more can you ask for?
Shield bash is great at low level if you aren't using a THW. (and when you are high level, you should train a few ranks of shield to learn it for passive defence even if you are using a THW)
Shield bash is great at low level if you aren't using a THW. (and when you are high level, you should train a few ranks of shield to learn it for passive defence even if you are using a THW)
KRAKII
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/26/2020 08:34 AM CDT
Do I correctly recall that WSpec and Bond provide bonuses to maneuvers performed with one of those weapons?
(It's been a long while since I did much of anything Warrior-side except catch up on a lot of Armor Use ranks, to get into one of the mist rings. [Thanks, Nuadjha!])
(It's been a long while since I did much of anything Warrior-side except catch up on a lot of Armor Use ranks, to get into one of the mist rings. [Thanks, Nuadjha!])
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/26/2020 09:51 AM CDT
I have two active warriors at present:
1) Elven warrior, TWC (dual broadswords), relying on damage avoidance (brigandine armor) vs. heavy armor. VOLN. Training plan for when I reach cap (bolded items are already trained at level 53 :
- Combat Focus (2 Ranks, +4 TD)
- Combat Mobility (2 Ranks, stand when attacked)
- Combat Toughness (3 Ranks, additional 35 health)
- Evade Mastery (3 Ranks, +15% evade)
- Griffin's Voice (2 Ranks, reduce stress from warcries, can effect undead)
- Hamstring (5 Ranks, so far an effective disabler against a number of foes)
- Parry Mastery (3 Ranks, +15% Parry - I assume with each weapon but not sure on this)
- Specialization I (4 Ranks, Broadsword, 2 ranks trained)
- Spell Parry (3 Ranks, parry ball/bolt spells at 75% normal parry chance)
- Surge of Strength (2 Ranks, I use this 'as needed' and had leftover points to take it to rank 2, 1 rank trained)
- Whirling Dervish (3 Ranks)
I will be further enhancing this characters 'damage avoidance' by putting them in HCP/HDP adamantine brigandine at training level 65 (so will have enhanced parry, enhanced dodge, and additional attack mitigation from the armor as well). Aside from the lighter armor choice, this character is also somewhat unusual in that I chose not to bond to a weapon - the primary reason for this is that this character has 4 blades that they utilize depending on the opponent (2 for undead, 2 for living). I felt I would get more benefit across the board via the broadsword specialization vs. bonding with one of the weapons being utilized some of the time.
2) Dwarven warrior, THW (greataxe), full plate. Sunfist. Training plan for cap (bolded items already trained at level 48:
- Executioners Stance (3 Ranks, chance to attack an additional creature or cause RT on slaying an opponent)
- Griffin's Voice (3 Ranks, reduce stress from warcries, can effect undead)
- Headbutt (4 Ranks, head damage / stun)
- Mighty Blow (2 Ranks, prereq for Executioner's Stance)
- Parry Mastery (3 Ranks, 15% bonus to parry)
- Precision (2 Ranks, Specify damage type)
- Specialization I (5 Ranks, Greataxe, 3 Ranks trained)
- Staggering Blow (5 Ranks, Enhances Executioners Stance, also may be useful directly, WIP 1 Rank trained so far)
- Surge of Strength (1 Rank, use as situationally needed)
- Weapon Bonding (5 Ranks, permablessed greataxe)
I consider this training plan more in line with main stream training and the character is already in HCP full plate (I'm still questioning if I should have pushed quite so hard to get to Full Plate at the expense of some other training but so far it seems to be working out). Headbutt is more of an RP choice and I may push it to 5 ranks or drop it altogether depending on its effectiveness. Griffin's Voice is optional for me (for both characters) as I have two martial stances so will have to see if I find Griffins voice situationally useful or not down the road. I chose precision so I could play around with it s bit (once trained) and determine if that might be situationally useful or not - I also have a greataxe with knockout flares so it would allow me to better take advantage of that as well.
I also had a sword / board HARDCORE (tm) warrior that made it to 40-something. But as death is permanent, my CMAN choices were somewhat more focused on survival than they might otherwise be for a sword / board build.
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
1) Elven warrior, TWC (dual broadswords), relying on damage avoidance (brigandine armor) vs. heavy armor. VOLN. Training plan for when I reach cap (bolded items are already trained at level 53 :
- Combat Focus (2 Ranks, +4 TD)
- Combat Mobility (2 Ranks, stand when attacked)
- Combat Toughness (3 Ranks, additional 35 health)
- Evade Mastery (3 Ranks, +15% evade)
- Griffin's Voice (2 Ranks, reduce stress from warcries, can effect undead)
- Hamstring (5 Ranks, so far an effective disabler against a number of foes)
- Parry Mastery (3 Ranks, +15% Parry - I assume with each weapon but not sure on this)
- Specialization I (4 Ranks, Broadsword, 2 ranks trained)
- Spell Parry (3 Ranks, parry ball/bolt spells at 75% normal parry chance)
- Surge of Strength (2 Ranks, I use this 'as needed' and had leftover points to take it to rank 2, 1 rank trained)
- Whirling Dervish (3 Ranks)
I will be further enhancing this characters 'damage avoidance' by putting them in HCP/HDP adamantine brigandine at training level 65 (so will have enhanced parry, enhanced dodge, and additional attack mitigation from the armor as well). Aside from the lighter armor choice, this character is also somewhat unusual in that I chose not to bond to a weapon - the primary reason for this is that this character has 4 blades that they utilize depending on the opponent (2 for undead, 2 for living). I felt I would get more benefit across the board via the broadsword specialization vs. bonding with one of the weapons being utilized some of the time.
2) Dwarven warrior, THW (greataxe), full plate. Sunfist. Training plan for cap (bolded items already trained at level 48:
- Executioners Stance (3 Ranks, chance to attack an additional creature or cause RT on slaying an opponent)
- Griffin's Voice (3 Ranks, reduce stress from warcries, can effect undead)
- Headbutt (4 Ranks, head damage / stun)
- Mighty Blow (2 Ranks, prereq for Executioner's Stance)
- Parry Mastery (3 Ranks, 15% bonus to parry)
- Precision (2 Ranks, Specify damage type)
- Specialization I (5 Ranks, Greataxe, 3 Ranks trained)
- Staggering Blow (5 Ranks, Enhances Executioners Stance, also may be useful directly, WIP 1 Rank trained so far)
- Surge of Strength (1 Rank, use as situationally needed)
- Weapon Bonding (5 Ranks, permablessed greataxe)
I consider this training plan more in line with main stream training and the character is already in HCP full plate (I'm still questioning if I should have pushed quite so hard to get to Full Plate at the expense of some other training but so far it seems to be working out). Headbutt is more of an RP choice and I may push it to 5 ranks or drop it altogether depending on its effectiveness. Griffin's Voice is optional for me (for both characters) as I have two martial stances so will have to see if I find Griffins voice situationally useful or not down the road. I chose precision so I could play around with it s bit (once trained) and determine if that might be situationally useful or not - I also have a greataxe with knockout flares so it would allow me to better take advantage of that as well.
I also had a sword / board HARDCORE (tm) warrior that made it to 40-something. But as death is permanent, my CMAN choices were somewhat more focused on survival than they might otherwise be for a sword / board build.
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
RATHBONER
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/26/2020 10:34 AM CDT
>Do I correctly recall that WSpec and Bond provide bonuses to maneuvers performed with one of those weapons?
(It's been a long while since I did much of anything Warrior-side except catch up on a lot of Armor Use ranks, to get into one of the mist rings. [Thanks, Nuadjha!])
Yes. +2 per rank on each of them. Its an important reason to train them (and to train wspec even if you aren't bonding)
(It's been a long while since I did much of anything Warrior-side except catch up on a lot of Armor Use ranks, to get into one of the mist rings. [Thanks, Nuadjha!])
Yes. +2 per rank on each of them. Its an important reason to train them (and to train wspec even if you aren't bonding)
KRAKII
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/26/2020 12:48 PM CDT
"Yes. +2 per rank on each of them. Its an important reason to train them (and to train wspec even if you aren't bonding)" -- RathboneR
Including especially Spell Cleaving and Spell Parry, I would think. :)
Thanks, I'm glad I haven't mis-remembered!
Including especially Spell Cleaving and Spell Parry, I would think. :)
Thanks, I'm glad I haven't mis-remembered!
RJH1023
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/27/2020 01:51 PM CDT
Here are my CMANs on my 13m warrior. I respecced them about 6-8 months ago and am really happy where they are at. Adding comments next to each, as my exact level may not be relevant to use. I only berserk when hunting (where a lot of stamina recovery enhancives to be able to do it), and swing a THW.
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2 -- not really worth it for just +2 DS each time, but had a few extra points left over when done with everything else that i couldn't use elsewhere
Combat Focus focus 2 -- more worth it than cmovement, but not significant benefit. Same story as above had a few points leftover
Specialization I wspec1 5 -- can do fine with 3 ranks, but couldn't find anywhere else to use points
Weapon Bonding bonding 5 -- must have, and make sure you have 5 ranks to fully bond
Combat Mobility mobility 2 -- lifesaver. I highly recommend the fully 2 ranks, for 100% chance of standing
Combat Toughness toughness 1 -- 1 rank of this is pretty cheap and gives 15 HPs max
Parry Mastery pmastery 3 -- good combo with mongoose
Cunning Defense cdefense 5 -- for manuever defense (the main way i die along with weird spells). Not actually sure how much this really helps
Stance of the Mongoose mongoose 3 -- my main martial stance. works great paired with pmastery. The RT it adds is kind of annoying when not in berserk
Spell Parry sparry 1 -- 1 rank is nice to parry bolt spells with mongoose
Tainted Bond tainted 1 -- love this with berserking. Adds option to have second berserk
Griffin's Voice griffin 3 -- Martial stance that I use for warcries only. Use holler every hunt so helpful here.
I would wpsec 3 ranks first, then 5 ranks of bond, then 2 ranks of mobility, then take any direction you prefer after that (maybe pmastery/sparry/mongoose). I wouldn't waste points on surge of strength ever because you can do 2 runs of night at the academy quest and max strength enhancives and save points elsewhere.
KRAKII
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/27/2020 02:00 PM CDT
"Spell Parry sparry 1 -- 1 rank is nice to parry bolt spells with mongoose" -- RJH1023
Okay, now THIS looks like a good combo!
Does the "I attack you back!" trigger from a parried bolt spell?
.
.
Reposting your table, as a table. (I see it in the Reply box; it came through totally "other" upon reading what you posted.)
Hopefully a bit more legibl.
Okay, now THIS looks like a good combo!
Does the "I attack you back!" trigger from a parried bolt spell?
.
.
Reposting your table, as a table. (I see it in the Reply box; it came through totally "other" upon reading what you posted.)
| Skill name | Mnemonic | Ranks | comments |
| | | | |
| Combat Movement | cmovement | 2 | not really worth it for just +2 DS each time, but had a few extra points left over when done with everything else that i couldn't use elsewhere |
| Combat Focus | focus | 2 | more worth it than cmovement, but not significant benefit. Same story as above had a few points leftover |
| Specialization I | wspec1 | 5 | can do fine with 3 ranks, but couldn't find anywhere else to use points |
| Weapon Bonding | bonding | 5 | must have, and make sure you have 5 ranks to fully bond |
| Combat Mobility | mobility | 2 | lifesaver. I highly recommend the fully 2 ranks, for 100% chance of standing |
| Combat Toughness | toughness | 1 | 1 rank of this is pretty cheap and gives 15 HPs max |
| Parry Mastery | pmastery | 3 | good combo with mongoose |
| Cunning Defense | cdefense | 5 | for manuever defense (the main way i die along with weird spells). Not actually sure how much this really helps |
| Stance of the Mongoose | mongoose | 3 | my main martial stance. works great paired with pmastery. The RT it adds is kind of annoying when not in berserk |
| Spell Parry | sparry | 1 | 1 rank is nice to parry bolt spells with mongoose |
| Tainted Bond | tainted | 1 | love this with berserking. Adds option to have second berserk |
| Griffin's Voice | griffin | 3 | Martial stance that I use for warcries only. Use holler every hunt so helpful here. |
Hopefully a bit more legibl.
RJH1023
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/27/2020 02:39 PM CDT
Much better looking thanks krakii!
I assumed mongoose worked with all parries, including spell parry, but now that I saw that not sure on that one. I would assume so but dont have hard evidence to base that on.
KRAKII
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/27/2020 02:42 PM CDT
Stand in front of a friendly Mage (OUTside of town...) using RapidFire and see if it gets triggered?
KELLYM40
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/27/2020 09:04 PM CDT
so you use THW and brawling? your 13m warrior what level is it and would you mind sharing your skills.
I am back to gemstone from a very long break and dont have access to any enhancives, not sure where most people get noncrumbly rechargable enhanvices, then I also dont know how people charge them...from wizards or adventurer guild?
ROBLAR
Re: Best cmans for warriors
05/27/2020 09:19 PM CDT
Charged via Adventurer's Guild primarily, in exchange for bounty points.
Simustore has potion options that can halt charge loss and is another popular choice for some. Some of these same potions are sometimes released at events or in giftboxes.
Other options include merchant services, Premium Contest wins, from other people's bounty points, from the same guild for silvers sometimes (usually NYE though it was done earlier this month as well), nude TSC ritualistic dancing (I kid, I kid).
Enhancive permanence is a rarer service now but possible during some events, perhaps Rumor Woods next month if Sylinar's Spire option is open (unlikely as that option wasn't available last few outings).
Simustore has potion options that can halt charge loss and is another popular choice for some. Some of these same potions are sometimes released at events or in giftboxes.
Other options include merchant services, Premium Contest wins, from other people's bounty points, from the same guild for silvers sometimes (usually NYE though it was done earlier this month as well), nude TSC ritualistic dancing (I kid, I kid).
Enhancive permanence is a rarer service now but possible during some events, perhaps Rumor Woods next month if Sylinar's Spire option is open (unlikely as that option wasn't available last few outings).
