On two of the people I (Evrali) healed today, transferring their health loss flagged as self-inflicted for some reason. Their actual wounds did not. As one had died to orcs and the other had gotten wounded from a bandit trap, neither should have counted as self-inflicted.
No clue why this would be turning up and I've never seen it before (when the wound was not actually self-inflicted). I bugged it under magic as well.
Evrali's player
ALYSERAH
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/24/2018 10:15 PM CDT
The implantation for self-inflicted bloodloss is new and is not a bug. While those players may have died through normal means (hunting), that doesn't mean they hadn't previously performed an action that would trigger it. Most likely cases are parasite weapons or +hitpoint enhancives (which is flagged when the enhancive is activated, but also unflags when it deactivates). Not to say there couldn't be a bug, but I'd have to investigate those players to review it.
GameMaster Estild
GameMaster Estild
ALYSERAH
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/24/2018 10:25 PM CDT
I would have to ask the first one if she uses anything of the sort. The second is a paladin and likely had a +con spell up. That said, minor boosts to health canceling out any and all exp gains, no matter how much health they have lost, seems as though it could stand to be reexamined. Items such as the parasite weapons are rather a different matter!
Thanks.
Thanks.
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/24/2018 10:35 PM CDT
| ALYSERAH |
| That said, minor boosts to health canceling out any and all exp gains, no matter how much health they have lost, seems as though it could stand to be reexamined. |
It only removes the experience for the exact amount of the boost. So if it was for +10 hitpoints, but they were missing 30 hitpoints, you would not get experience for the first 10 HPs, but you would for the next 20.
GameMaster Estild
ALYSERAH
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/24/2018 10:36 PM CDT
Thank you. I will talk to the first person when I see her next. It's possible she has health enhancives. If not, then it is probably buggy and I'll post about it if so.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
ALLENM20
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/25/2018 02:16 AM CDT
Would this apply to a paladin using the Vigor spell if they died?
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| Whick's body sways back and forth for a bit. |
| * Whick drops dead at your feet! |
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/25/2018 08:49 AM CDT
| ALLENM20 |
| Would this apply to a paladin using the Vigor spell if they died? |
It would apply to a paladin when they first cast Vigor (1616), but upon the spell ending (normally or through death), the effect is removed, so the bonus health they gained is unflagged (since it's no longer present to heal).
GameMaster Estild
KRAKII
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/25/2018 10:51 AM CDT
"The implantation for self-inflicted bloodloss is new and is not a bug." -- Estild
"Most likely cases are parasite weapons or +hitpoint enhancives (which is flagged when the enhancive is activated, but also unflags when it deactivates)." -- ibid
.
And having seen the wording myself last night and this morning, I kind of disagree with it when the provenance is +MaxHP Enhancives. It talks about the severity of the trauma of the wound (or words to that effect)... there was no severity [dude, I wore a ring} and there was no wound [it's not that I'm now down blood (I'm still at 153, same as a moment ago) it's just that I have added capacity (now at 153/170, rather than 153/153)].
But that's more of a quibble over specific wording than disagreeing with how it works.
With the advent of this, I can now stop bugging Wyrom about whether or not I should be zooming levels with my Empath(s). Thanks!
.
The issue was that activating a +MaxHP Enhancive naturally gave you capacity for HPs which you did not yet have (as in my example above: going from 153/153, to only 153/170)...
...and for some reason, those HP were healable for real live field experience.
So you remove your Enhancive, taking yourself ALL the way down to... your normal max. Now you wear your Enhancive...
Infinite loop for Empath experience, limited only by capacity to lose blood and mana to heal it up.
Now imagine if you will that you've got three or four Enhancives on a macro (or AdvGuild armoire) for 50-90hp at a time...)
Excerpts from Policy 7: "...to using normal game mechanics in ways they are clearly not intended." and "...repeatedly injuring yourself (or another character) in order to generate experience for an empath or cleric;..."
- The user of the Enhancive is still checked for "does it lose a charge", so it is not without cost.
- You are not giving yourself an injury, you are coming into possession of a bonus and then voluntarily giving it up.
- Healer still has to use mana, and needs to watch their own HP total to ensure status of "living".
- May very well happen in the normal course of daily life. (Specific example: it's on a weapon. Character is a Two-Weapon Combat swinger. In order to pick up treasure of any kind, they HAVE TO deny themselves of one weapon or the other. And if both happen to be Enhancive in this way....)
.
But yeah, I blinked when I saw the experience meter pop on my one Empath and said, "Oh, HELL NO they didn't do that, did they?!?! Really?!" (Yeah. They had.)
"Most likely cases are parasite weapons or +hitpoint enhancives (which is flagged when the enhancive is activated, but also unflags when it deactivates)." -- ibid
.
And having seen the wording myself last night and this morning, I kind of disagree with it when the provenance is +MaxHP Enhancives. It talks about the severity of the trauma of the wound (or words to that effect)... there was no severity [dude, I wore a ring} and there was no wound [it's not that I'm now down blood (I'm still at 153, same as a moment ago) it's just that I have added capacity (now at 153/170, rather than 153/153)].
But that's more of a quibble over specific wording than disagreeing with how it works.
With the advent of this, I can now stop bugging Wyrom about whether or not I should be zooming levels with my Empath(s). Thanks!
.
The issue was that activating a +MaxHP Enhancive naturally gave you capacity for HPs which you did not yet have (as in my example above: going from 153/153, to only 153/170)...
...and for some reason, those HP were healable for real live field experience.
So you remove your Enhancive, taking yourself ALL the way down to... your normal max. Now you wear your Enhancive...
Infinite loop for Empath experience, limited only by capacity to lose blood and mana to heal it up.
Now imagine if you will that you've got three or four Enhancives on a macro (or AdvGuild armoire) for 50-90hp at a time...)
Excerpts from Policy 7: "...to using normal game mechanics in ways they are clearly not intended." and "...repeatedly injuring yourself (or another character) in order to generate experience for an empath or cleric;..."
- The user of the Enhancive is still checked for "does it lose a charge", so it is not without cost.
- You are not giving yourself an injury, you are coming into possession of a bonus and then voluntarily giving it up.
- Healer still has to use mana, and needs to watch their own HP total to ensure status of "living".
- May very well happen in the normal course of daily life. (Specific example: it's on a weapon. Character is a Two-Weapon Combat swinger. In order to pick up treasure of any kind, they HAVE TO deny themselves of one weapon or the other. And if both happen to be Enhancive in this way....)
.
But yeah, I blinked when I saw the experience meter pop on my one Empath and said, "Oh, HELL NO they didn't do that, did they?!?! Really?!" (Yeah. They had.)
OM1E5GA
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/25/2018 06:05 PM CDT
My empath usually seems to already be either fried or saturated when folk ask her to heal anymore, so I just go ahead and heal when I see the message. It is annoying having to type the command twice though... I'd like to see it changed to differentiate between getting reduced EXP because of an enhansive and true self mutilation. Then it could just tell us we got reduced exp without making us retype the command if we're healing someone that happens to use an enhansive.... esp since we're talking about a loss of 20 or fewer exp points unless someone's really gone wild with enhansives (no one's going to notice the reduction unless they're actively abusing it anyway).
I'm sure the majority of folk using HP boosting enhansives aren't running to an empath every time they wear them (or pull out their weapon) and since the vast majority of empaths don't rely on exp from healing any more, it's kind of punishing the healer for being nice when they're made to retype the command.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I'm sure the majority of folk using HP boosting enhansives aren't running to an empath every time they wear them (or pull out their weapon) and since the vast majority of empaths don't rely on exp from healing any more, it's kind of punishing the healer for being nice when they're made to retype the command.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
ARCHSENEX
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/25/2018 09:18 PM CDT
>> It is annoying having to type the command twice though
I agree on this one. Maybe it's time to get some sort of confirm mechanism like in other "do it twice to really mean it" mechanisms, where you can just set yourself to always heal, even if you're getting no XP?
I agree on this one. Maybe it's time to get some sort of confirm mechanism like in other "do it twice to really mean it" mechanisms, where you can just set yourself to always heal, even if you're getting no XP?
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/26/2018 09:19 AM CDT
| Starchitin, the OG |
| I'm sure the majority of folk using HP boosting enhansives aren't running to an empath every time they wear them (or pull out their weapon) and since the vast majority of empaths don't rely on exp from healing any more, it's kind of punishing the healer for being nice when they're made to retype the command. |
It should be noted that if someone uses an +HP enhancive, then recovers that health (through any means) other than an empath, it's no longer flagged. This applies to any of the wounds/HP that block experience (if you get flagged for such a wound/HP, then eat an herb, it's no longer flagged so if you get hurt again, an empath will get experience for transferring the second wound/HP).
GameMaster Estild
OM1E5GA
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/26/2018 12:14 PM CDT
That' good but, depending on the size of the boost, it's perfectly reasonable for many characters to just let the HP regen without realizing they've been flagged (unless that clears the flag as well). Most of my characters don't even bother with acantha unless they're missing more the ~20 HP.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/26/2018 12:40 PM CDT
| Starchitin, the OG |
| That' good but, depending on the size of the boost, it's perfectly reasonable for many characters to just let the HP regen without realizing they've been flagged (unless that clears the flag as well). Most of my characters don't even bother with acantha unless they're missing more the ~20 HP. |
Take note, I said if the health is recovered through any means other than an empath, which includes normal health regen, then it's unflagged. The situation you describe is extremely common and based upon how the process works, it won't be an issue at all.
GameMaster Estild
OM1E5GA
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/26/2018 01:43 PM CDT
<Take note, I said if the health is recovered through any means other than an empath, which includes normal health regen, then it's unflagged.>
I'm too used to the things I think of and don't mention being the one thing no one else thought of
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I'm too used to the things I think of and don't mention being the one thing no one else thought of
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
EUNOIA
Re: Buggy health transferring?
09/27/2018 06:07 AM CDT
Sorry for the late reply, but I'm one of the people that the OP (Evrali) posted about healing. An orc had killed me, I had suffered no self-inflicted wounds, and don't use any enhancives of any sort so it couldn't have been that. At the time I would have been wearing wizard spells, 601, 606, and 1206. Hope that helps!
Player of Kyaloria
@Kyaloria#0165
Player of Kyaloria
@Kyaloria#0165
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Buggy health transferring?
10/02/2018 03:19 PM CDT
I agree that the prompt to confirm if you want to transfer was unnecessary. I have doubts on whether it actually caused any empath to not continue to heal the patient. I've removed it, but you'll still get a separate statement about not earning experience for self-inflicted wounds when it happens.
GameMaster Estild
GameMaster Estild
