Just wanted to see thoughts from current Empaths on the subject of switching spell access from Major Spiritual to Minor Mental.
Losses: (Short list)
+40 AS from 211/215. But still places AS bonus +5 higher than Clerics/Wizards.
Probably some spirit TD from 219, although 1208/1215 would soften that somewhat.
218 disarm protection.
225 teleport.
240 power up.
Gains: (Short list)
Overall DS.
1202 (Huge? DS boost)
1206 (Quality bolt)
1207 (Maneuver addition)
1213 (Massive stamina saving, coupled with GoS would make for godly mana regen)
1219 (Another maneuver addition)
1220 (More maneuver protection)
I recall previous discussions, but I never really paid too much attention to them. But I see where it makes sense for Wizards to be the Elementalists, Clerics to be the Spiritualists, Sorcerers being the elem/spirit hybrid and Empaths being the spirit/mental hybrid.
VEYTHORNE
OM1E5GA
Re: Going from Major Spiritual to Minor Mental.
09/23/2018 02:06 PM CDT
<1202 (Huge? DS boost)>
1202 doesn't boost DS at all, it mimics the effects of unenchanted armor so long as you are not wearing armor heavier then robes. Whether this would be an improvement or not to any particular empath would depend on their training, what armor they're currently wearing, and what kind of robes or ASG 0 clothing they could get their hands on. Keep in mind that it's much more difficult to find robes with things like reactive flares too.
I don't see it mentioned on the wiki, but I do recall it being brought up when the MM circle was released that 1202 doesn't provide the CvA benefit of the armor it's mimicing... prolly not a big deal since most empaths don't wear anything heavier then doubles, but I'm sure there are warpaths that would notice it (though their TD against most things is prolly high enough they wouldn't care)
Personally, if the switch was made I'd be unlikely to take advantage of the spell even though it would put me in double chain without any changes to my training. The cost of robes greater then 4x would likely increase significantly and I'd lose the disintegration flares my current armor has.
While I can see some benefits to a switch to the MM, the loss of AS from 211/215 would hurt my empath too much for me to get behind it since she primarily bolts and she would def notice the lower resulting endrolls. I also really like having access to 225 when I need to pull a body from somewhere like the Karazja Jungle or Krolvin Ship.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
1202 doesn't boost DS at all, it mimics the effects of unenchanted armor so long as you are not wearing armor heavier then robes. Whether this would be an improvement or not to any particular empath would depend on their training, what armor they're currently wearing, and what kind of robes or ASG 0 clothing they could get their hands on. Keep in mind that it's much more difficult to find robes with things like reactive flares too.
I don't see it mentioned on the wiki, but I do recall it being brought up when the MM circle was released that 1202 doesn't provide the CvA benefit of the armor it's mimicing... prolly not a big deal since most empaths don't wear anything heavier then doubles, but I'm sure there are warpaths that would notice it (though their TD against most things is prolly high enough they wouldn't care)
Personally, if the switch was made I'd be unlikely to take advantage of the spell even though it would put me in double chain without any changes to my training. The cost of robes greater then 4x would likely increase significantly and I'd lose the disintegration flares my current armor has.
While I can see some benefits to a switch to the MM, the loss of AS from 211/215 would hurt my empath too much for me to get behind it since she primarily bolts and she would def notice the lower resulting endrolls. I also really like having access to 225 when I need to pull a body from somewhere like the Karazja Jungle or Krolvin Ship.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
TARLEQUIN
Re: Going from Major Spiritual to Minor Mental.
09/24/2018 08:56 PM CDT
FYI, 1219 is a warding spell, not a maneuver. Also, 1220 was removed from SMRv2's maneuver protection spell list, and I believe the intent is to transition old maneuvers from SMRv1 to SMRv2 over time, so it sounds like 1220 is just going to get worse.
The thing is, the Empaths with MnM ship has probably sailed long ago. When MnM was first announced, Empaths were rather lukewarm to it. Finally, empaths were given a choice by Warden, Estild, and company back in the day (circa 2005-7ish) and the community was still fairly divided, which is why I think the status quo was chosen. MnM could have been designed with Empaths in mind, but it wasn't because of the community response. As it stands, the profession would shift dramatically by swapping out circles. Obviously there are pros and cons to the switch, but the biggest con is that many characters, some with upwards of 20 years of history, would see a dramatic shift in class identity.
That being said, I believe there could still be a decent case that MnM could adequately address Empaths' needs. Some upper-level slots (1230, 1240, and 1250 if 50th level spells in minor circles is something that should happen) remain open which could be used to fill holes that would arise with the loss of the 200s, such as 1230 providing the AS lost from 211 and 215. That would bump up mid-level Monk AS, but, frankly, that class needs some help. Other spells could be tweaked slightly, like Brace offering disarm protection similar to 218, etc. It's certainly do-able. It's just a question of if a near consensus exists among the current Empath community that it'd be the right direction for the design of the class.
Personally, I'd support it, even if it does cause hiccups to my shaman's RP. But I think we have a higher probability of seeing Savants implemented than we do of seeing Empaths because actual factual hybrid pures instead of the cop-out hybrids they are now.
Glimmin Goodhand
The thing is, the Empaths with MnM ship has probably sailed long ago. When MnM was first announced, Empaths were rather lukewarm to it. Finally, empaths were given a choice by Warden, Estild, and company back in the day (circa 2005-7ish) and the community was still fairly divided, which is why I think the status quo was chosen. MnM could have been designed with Empaths in mind, but it wasn't because of the community response. As it stands, the profession would shift dramatically by swapping out circles. Obviously there are pros and cons to the switch, but the biggest con is that many characters, some with upwards of 20 years of history, would see a dramatic shift in class identity.
That being said, I believe there could still be a decent case that MnM could adequately address Empaths' needs. Some upper-level slots (1230, 1240, and 1250 if 50th level spells in minor circles is something that should happen) remain open which could be used to fill holes that would arise with the loss of the 200s, such as 1230 providing the AS lost from 211 and 215. That would bump up mid-level Monk AS, but, frankly, that class needs some help. Other spells could be tweaked slightly, like Brace offering disarm protection similar to 218, etc. It's certainly do-able. It's just a question of if a near consensus exists among the current Empath community that it'd be the right direction for the design of the class.
Personally, I'd support it, even if it does cause hiccups to my shaman's RP. But I think we have a higher probability of seeing Savants implemented than we do of seeing Empaths because actual factual hybrid pures instead of the cop-out hybrids they are now.
Glimmin Goodhand
DIXON1
Re: Going from Major Spiritual to Minor Mental.
09/25/2018 09:43 AM CDT
Im very cold to the idea. It would completely change the nature of my character.
If anything, it should be a choice for each individual empath.
If anything, it should be a choice for each individual empath.
