On the third day of ESN, TRANSFER has been updated to no longer give experience immediately upon transferring a wound. Instead, the experience that would be gained is stored in a 10 second effect, unique to each player healed, which is refreshed by further transfers. After 10 seconds of not healing, the empath will be awarded all of the experience at once. To go along with this, the healer will be made aware when the effect has enough experience stored in it that it will completely fill their minds in case they want to share with other empaths.
The goal here is:
1) To stop each successive wound transfer from being subjected to a harsher experience penalty from having a fuller mind. The net result is more experience from healing multiple wounds at once.
2) It is being used for something else you'll find out about on another day of ESN!
I'm very aware that this is likely to cause some confusion, so I am happy to answer questions/concerns as always.
Enjoy!
PS: I'm going to follow this post up with an example showcasing an example of #1.
~ Konacon
GS4-KONACON
GS4-KONACON
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 11:37 AM CST
Hi everybody! Here are a couple examples of how this transfer effect changes experience gain in a positive way (Note: numbers are not 100% accurate, but do accurately portray how this works):
1) An empath with 0 experience stored heals a patient with 6 wounds worth experience values: 100, 75, 75, 50, 50, 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 374 experience whereas the new system would award them with 400 experience.
2) An empath with 200 experience stored heals a heavily wounded patient with wounds worth 150, 150, 100, 100, 100, and 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 522 experience whereas the new system would award them with 585 experience.
3) An empath with 500 experience stored heals a patient with a lot of minor wounds worth 80, 70, 60, and 7 wounds worth 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 380 experience whereas the new system would award them with 420 experience.
~ Konacon
1) An empath with 0 experience stored heals a patient with 6 wounds worth experience values: 100, 75, 75, 50, 50, 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 374 experience whereas the new system would award them with 400 experience.
2) An empath with 200 experience stored heals a heavily wounded patient with wounds worth 150, 150, 100, 100, 100, and 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 522 experience whereas the new system would award them with 585 experience.
3) An empath with 500 experience stored heals a patient with a lot of minor wounds worth 80, 70, 60, and 7 wounds worth 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 380 experience whereas the new system would award them with 420 experience.
~ Konacon
NAAMIT
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 12:02 PM CST
Konacon, can you help us understand the rationale behind the modified method of exp award/absorption? Not saying it's bad (I'm truthfully still confused, but am testing). Just curious about the motivation for this change, either on its own or in cooperation with the others on your ESN docket.
Thanks!
Thanks!
RATHBONER
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 12:04 PM CST
>2) It is being used for something else you'll find out about on another day of ESN!
A way to access saturated levels for a healer?
A way to access saturated levels for a healer?
GS4-KONACON
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 12:13 PM CST
> Konacon, can you help us understand the rationale behind the modified method of exp award/absorption? Not saying it's bad (I'm truthfully still confused, but am testing). Just curious about the motivation for this change, either on its own or in cooperation with the others on your ESN docket.
Happily! One of the biggest issues with trying to sit in town and heal is that it feels very feast or famine. Meaning you often feel like you are either fried with 10 more patients that all need healing, or you're fresh and clear hoping to god for another patient to come in before you go clear as a bell. That really isn't a lot of fun.
So to fix that, we wanted to give an overall experience increase and make it so that each wound you heal from a single patient doesn't get penalized heavier on experience. This helps to stretch out the experience gain when you're only getting a patient once in a while, making the famine less noticeable.
>> 2) It is being used for something else you'll find out about on another day of ESN!
> A way to access saturated levels for a healer?
Not quite... But I hope you'll like it anyways!
~ Konacon
Happily! One of the biggest issues with trying to sit in town and heal is that it feels very feast or famine. Meaning you often feel like you are either fried with 10 more patients that all need healing, or you're fresh and clear hoping to god for another patient to come in before you go clear as a bell. That really isn't a lot of fun.
So to fix that, we wanted to give an overall experience increase and make it so that each wound you heal from a single patient doesn't get penalized heavier on experience. This helps to stretch out the experience gain when you're only getting a patient once in a while, making the famine less noticeable.
>> 2) It is being used for something else you'll find out about on another day of ESN!
> A way to access saturated levels for a healer?
Not quite... But I hope you'll like it anyways!
~ Konacon
OM1E5GA
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 01:18 PM CST
< Here are a couple examples of how this transfer effect changes experience gain in a positive way (Note: numbers are not 100% accurate, but do accurately portray how this works):>
I thought I understood it until I saw, these examples... and now I can't make heads or tails of it. Looking closer at the original post just confuses me more. Maybe if the "old system" wasn't used in the example it would be less confusing, I dunno...
Does this "transfer effect" boost the amount of exp gained based on how long the timer has been running?
There's penalty to gaining EXP from transferring wounds with exp in the bucket? (if so, this is something I wasn't aware of before)
If we keep transferring after it would fill our heads when we get the exp, does the extra EXP stay there until another pulse(s) hits and top it up until it runs out?
I'm feeling the same way I did when I was 8 and a teenager tried to explain sex to me....
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I thought I understood it until I saw, these examples... and now I can't make heads or tails of it. Looking closer at the original post just confuses me more. Maybe if the "old system" wasn't used in the example it would be less confusing, I dunno...
Does this "transfer effect" boost the amount of exp gained based on how long the timer has been running?
There's penalty to gaining EXP from transferring wounds with exp in the bucket? (if so, this is something I wasn't aware of before)
If we keep transferring after it would fill our heads when we get the exp, does the extra EXP stay there until another pulse(s) hits and top it up until it runs out?
I'm feeling the same way I did when I was 8 and a teenager tried to explain sex to me....
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GS4-KONACON
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 01:26 PM CST
> Does this "transfer effect" boost the amount of exp gained based on how long the timer has been running?
No, it does not.
> There's penalty to gaining EXP from transferring wounds with exp in the bucket? (if so, this is something I wasn't aware of before)
It's not just transferring wounds. There is a penalty to gaining experience from everything with exp already in your mind. As your mind gets fuller and fuller, you get less experience from things.
> If we keep transferring after it would fill our heads when we get the exp, does the extra EXP stay there until another pulse(s) hits and top it up until it runs out?
No. When your head would be full, that's it. It will just be full when the effect runs out.
~ Konacon
No, it does not.
> There's penalty to gaining EXP from transferring wounds with exp in the bucket? (if so, this is something I wasn't aware of before)
It's not just transferring wounds. There is a penalty to gaining experience from everything with exp already in your mind. As your mind gets fuller and fuller, you get less experience from things.
> If we keep transferring after it would fill our heads when we get the exp, does the extra EXP stay there until another pulse(s) hits and top it up until it runs out?
No. When your head would be full, that's it. It will just be full when the effect runs out.
~ Konacon
OM1E5GA
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 01:54 PM CST
Now I'm really failing to see the point... if you're taking enough wounds to get to belled, 9 times out of 10 that extra 20is-50ish exp won't matter cause you would have been going over the limit anyway. It will just get lost along with whatever other amount over the limit you would have gone.
...Unless it's to further encourage my empath to have a conniption when someone shows up in the Commons with half a dozen bleeding wounds the moment she announces she's headed out to finish an Adventurer's Guild task (every freaking time! it never fails!).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
...Unless it's to further encourage my empath to have a conniption when someone shows up in the Commons with half a dozen bleeding wounds the moment she announces she's headed out to finish an Adventurer's Guild task (every freaking time! it never fails!).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KRAKII
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 02:03 PM CST
"It's not just transferring wounds. There is a penalty to gaining experience from everything with exp already in your mind. As your mind gets fuller and fuller, you get less experience from things." -- Konacon, explaining
This is the crucial point.
When you're already at Becoming Numb, killing CritterX gives you less field experience than when you're at CAAB.
.
This empathic addition means that, if you transfer a wound from Konacon (while CAAB, getting +X field experience), and then--within some span of seconds--transfer ANOTHER wound from Konacon, instead of getting +X -Y field experience (because you now have something already in your bucket), you INSTEAD get the full +X field value of the wound, as though you were still at CAAB.
Basically, rapid consecutive transfers allow you to get the full field-experience value as of <whatever your mind state was when you took the first one>, rather than getting progressively less.
This is the crucial point.
When you're already at Becoming Numb, killing CritterX gives you less field experience than when you're at CAAB.
.
This empathic addition means that, if you transfer a wound from Konacon (while CAAB, getting +X field experience), and then--within some span of seconds--transfer ANOTHER wound from Konacon, instead of getting +X -Y field experience (because you now have something already in your bucket), you INSTEAD get the full +X field value of the wound, as though you were still at CAAB.
Basically, rapid consecutive transfers allow you to get the full field-experience value as of <whatever your mind state was when you took the first one>, rather than getting progressively less.
ZHOUY1
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 02:18 PM CST
The diminishing field experience accruals are described at https://gswiki.play.net/Experience_pool#Exceptions -- for every 100 unabsorbed field experience, any new experience decreases by 5%.
So the first example here: "An empath with 0 experience stored heals a patient with 6 wounds worth experience values: 100, 75, 75, 50, 50, 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 374 experience whereas the new system would award them with 400 experience."
With diminishing accruals, the first 100 is absorbed at 100%, the two blocks of 75 are absorbed at 95%, the next two blocks of 50 at 90%, and the final 50 at 85%, for a total of 100 + 71 + 71 + 45 + 45 + 42 = 374.
(For documentation purposes it would be nice to know exactly how much base experience is now given for each type of wound.)
So the first example here: "An empath with 0 experience stored heals a patient with 6 wounds worth experience values: 100, 75, 75, 50, 50, 50. Under the old system, the empath would get a total of 374 experience whereas the new system would award them with 400 experience."
With diminishing accruals, the first 100 is absorbed at 100%, the two blocks of 75 are absorbed at 95%, the next two blocks of 50 at 90%, and the final 50 at 85%, for a total of 100 + 71 + 71 + 45 + 45 + 42 = 374.
(For documentation purposes it would be nice to know exactly how much base experience is now given for each type of wound.)
GS4-KONACON
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 02:56 PM CST
Hi everybody!
Thinking about this, I wanted to come in with a less mechanical explanation to this that might help some people who don't want to know all the number-y things.
Essentially, this update means that you don't get experience right away when transferring from people anymore. However, you will get more experience overall for healing. To deal with things like sharing incinerated victims, you will get the message "You get the feeling that your mind will need to rest soon." as an indicator that your mind will be full if you stop healing. (Note: This message doesn't get generated if your mind is already fried, because I figured that would just be irritating.)
~ Konacon
Thinking about this, I wanted to come in with a less mechanical explanation to this that might help some people who don't want to know all the number-y things.
Essentially, this update means that you don't get experience right away when transferring from people anymore. However, you will get more experience overall for healing. To deal with things like sharing incinerated victims, you will get the message "You get the feeling that your mind will need to rest soon." as an indicator that your mind will be full if you stop healing. (Note: This message doesn't get generated if your mind is already fried, because I figured that would just be irritating.)
~ Konacon
KRAKII
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 03:21 PM CST
So, as long as the transfers are being done within the time window, it is possible to sit there and transfer transfer transfer transfer transfer transfer...
...then pause (after seeing the 'will need to rest soon' message)...
...the BAM! You're at must-rest?
...then pause (after seeing the 'will need to rest soon' message)...
...the BAM! You're at must-rest?
OM1E5GA
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/17/2017 09:40 PM CST
I'm just going to have to wait to see what the teased other thing turns out being... cause without whatever that is, Transfer Effect looks like change for the sake of change. Not trying to be snarky, just that 50ish exp one way or the other isn't going to be noticed by me.
In the mean-time, there's a voice in my head that's ruining a perfectly good milk stout with her nagging, so I'm gonna let her out to speak just this once. I refuse to accept any responsibility for her opinions or interpretation of the change (no one ever accused her of being anything near rational or logical):
Konacon, wha tha ell is wrong wit yea?
Is bad enough ah gotta spend enough mana ta give half tha men in Elanthia an adrenal surge ta spell up jest ta have some half-decapitated wizard tha blew out his nerves hop in on one leg ta badga meh fer healing right as ah'm about ta head out ta hunt... but now ah gotta add TEN MORE SECONDS ta tha time it takes meh ta heal up, get meh mana back, and clear meh head?!?!?!
Ah'm ah busy woman, dernit... trolls dun set themselves on fire and men dun chain themselves ta tha bed, yea know! How tha ell am ah supposed ta make eitha one o them scream if yea keep eatin up alla meh time like this?
Ah demand yea change this back immediatela or ah curse all yea children an yea children's children ta beh sterile an yea woman ta feel like sandpapa from here on out!
Sixle
OOC addendum: And now you see why I speak for them rather then letting them speak for themselves...
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
In the mean-time, there's a voice in my head that's ruining a perfectly good milk stout with her nagging, so I'm gonna let her out to speak just this once. I refuse to accept any responsibility for her opinions or interpretation of the change (no one ever accused her of being anything near rational or logical):
Konacon, wha tha ell is wrong wit yea?
Is bad enough ah gotta spend enough mana ta give half tha men in Elanthia an adrenal surge ta spell up jest ta have some half-decapitated wizard tha blew out his nerves hop in on one leg ta badga meh fer healing right as ah'm about ta head out ta hunt... but now ah gotta add TEN MORE SECONDS ta tha time it takes meh ta heal up, get meh mana back, and clear meh head?!?!?!
Ah'm ah busy woman, dernit... trolls dun set themselves on fire and men dun chain themselves ta tha bed, yea know! How tha ell am ah supposed ta make eitha one o them scream if yea keep eatin up alla meh time like this?
Ah demand yea change this back immediatela or ah curse all yea children an yea children's children ta beh sterile an yea woman ta feel like sandpapa from here on out!
Sixle
OOC addendum: And now you see why I speak for them rather then letting them speak for themselves...
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
RATHBONER
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/18/2017 05:00 AM CST
>Is bad enough ah gotta spend enough mana ta give half tha men in Elanthia an adrenal surge ta spell up jest ta have some half-decapitated wizard tha blew out his nerves hop in on one leg ta badga meh fer healing right as ah'm about ta head out ta hunt... but now ah gotta add TEN MORE SECONDS ta tha time it takes meh ta heal up, get meh mana back, and clear meh head?!?!?!
What adds time is the extra experience it awards rather than the ten seconds. If you are waiting for your head to clear, you'll have to wait a pulse or three longer because of the extra experience you are getting. The ten seconds runs concurrently with other things it doesn't add to the time they take.
This is supposed to reduce the incentive for someone that has started out healing rather than hunting to stick at it, which it does. Its not going to encourage a hunter to take up healing again and I don't think its supposed to.
What adds time is the extra experience it awards rather than the ten seconds. If you are waiting for your head to clear, you'll have to wait a pulse or three longer because of the extra experience you are getting. The ten seconds runs concurrently with other things it doesn't add to the time they take.
This is supposed to reduce the incentive for someone that has started out healing rather than hunting to stick at it, which it does. Its not going to encourage a hunter to take up healing again and I don't think its supposed to.
DMWCINCY
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/18/2017 07:14 AM CST
Let me see if i get this. Please note i am going to use simple numbers to make the poinf as i do not know the actual numbers to use.
In the old system we wluld transfer and immediately get 10 experience when we have a clear head. The next tdansfer would be 9 exp.as we have experience built up...then 8 then 7 etc as more e?perience is built up to learn. If we add up 5 fransfers at 10 9 8 7 6 we get 40 exp points.
New system there is a delay. Since that delay is there in a 10 period we keep a clear head so those 10 seconds you get max exp each time. So for 5 transfers you get 50 exp. A difference of 10 exp more then before up to a full head.
Out side the fact the game gives different exp per transfer based on various factors do i have the basic idea understood?
In the old system we wluld transfer and immediately get 10 experience when we have a clear head. The next tdansfer would be 9 exp.as we have experience built up...then 8 then 7 etc as more e?perience is built up to learn. If we add up 5 fransfers at 10 9 8 7 6 we get 40 exp points.
New system there is a delay. Since that delay is there in a 10 period we keep a clear head so those 10 seconds you get max exp each time. So for 5 transfers you get 50 exp. A difference of 10 exp more then before up to a full head.
Out side the fact the game gives different exp per transfer based on various factors do i have the basic idea understood?
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/18/2017 08:21 AM CST
>> New system there is a delay. Since that delay is there in a 10 period we keep a clear head so those 10 seconds you get max exp each time. So for 5 transfers you get 50 exp. A difference of 10 exp more then before up to a full head.
You pretty much just restated Konacon's example with different numbers. Looks like you have it correct!
-- Robert
Damp deeply exclaims, "It's a wizard's locked project!"
You pretty much just restated Konacon's example with different numbers. Looks like you have it correct!
-- Robert
Damp deeply exclaims, "It's a wizard's locked project!"
DMWCINCY
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/18/2017 08:57 AM CST
Haha kind of not feeling great and being up all night because of being sick i just had to say it in my own words to get it to stick. Thanks.
OM1E5GA
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/18/2017 09:21 AM CST
<What adds time is the extra experience it awards rather than the ten seconds. If you are waiting for your head to clear, you'll have to wait a pulse or three longer because of the extra experience you are getting. The ten seconds runs concurrently with other things it doesn't add to the time they take.>
As I said, I take no responsibility for her interpretations... as many Resters and half-krol have learned, she's both stubborn and pretty much immune to logic. Just let her fume until she forgets about it and hope no one reminds her about it...
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
As I said, I take no responsibility for her interpretations... as many Resters and half-krol have learned, she's both stubborn and pretty much immune to logic. Just let her fume until she forgets about it and hope no one reminds her about it...
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
MINQUE
Re: ESN: Transfer Effect!
11/28/2017 05:43 PM CST
<<To deal with things like sharing incinerated victims, you will get the message "You get the feeling that your mind will need to rest soon." as an indicator that your mind will be full if you stop healing. (Note: This message doesn't get generated if your mind is already fried, because I figured that would just be irritating.)>> -- Konacon
Question)
Hmmm, is there another way to break the link prematurely other than IMPRINT? Since I'm trying to burn through 15 Instant Mind Clears, 34 Double Experience Boosts and 87 Long-Term Experience Boosts, I'm finding myself healing someone until fried, then boosting, then healing more. But I guess I gotta time it for the experience to hit me first?
I doubt this is a usual thing but I'm just curious cause its actually relevant to me right now. :-D (10 seconds isn't a total pain either, I just need to remember it, wait, boost, continue healing)
Question)
Hmmm, is there another way to break the link prematurely other than IMPRINT? Since I'm trying to burn through 15 Instant Mind Clears, 34 Double Experience Boosts and 87 Long-Term Experience Boosts, I'm finding myself healing someone until fried, then boosting, then healing more. But I guess I gotta time it for the experience to hit me first?
I doubt this is a usual thing but I'm just curious cause its actually relevant to me right now. :-D (10 seconds isn't a total pain either, I just need to remember it, wait, boost, continue healing)
