While looking into bards I discovered they have an unlocking service available but that most consider it largely useless.
I had a couple of thoughts for updates to it which may make it more of a sought after ability.
These are just random thoughts so please comment if it’s wrong in any way.
1: because you are unlocking the information of the item a reduction in difficulty for enchanting and ensorcelling. Working on something you are familiar with vs unfamiliar is a completely different challenge. A bonus of +20, +40, +60, +80, +100 applied to your positive factors per unlock tier. (Randomly selected values used as example)
2. A reduction in the cost to enchant / ensorcell the item.
Because there are 5 tiers to unlocking it could be 1 to 1 for ensorcell then level 1 lkp unlock does up to 2x enchant, 2 lkp does 4x, and so on to 5 lkp for a 10x
On the lower end it may not be entirely useful due to the low cost and ease of completing these services but on the high end could be very useful for someone working on completing a project piece.
Note. My preference leans towards idea number one.
GHOSTPANTS
OM1E5GA
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 06:52 AM CST
<While looking into bards I discovered they have an unlocking service available but that most consider it largely useless.>
It's not so much useless as it's the prices the vocal minority are trying to establish as the baseline for the service is turning people off it. If you ask around, it's actually pretty easy to find someone to unlock things for a reasonable amount or tips only... esp if the item isn't already massively tricked out (which is really when you should get loresongs unlocked anyway, if possible)
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
It's not so much useless as it's the prices the vocal minority are trying to establish as the baseline for the service is turning people off it. If you ask around, it's actually pretty easy to find someone to unlock things for a reasonable amount or tips only... esp if the item isn't already massively tricked out (which is really when you should get loresongs unlocked anyway, if possible)
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GHOSTPANTS
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:13 AM CST
If I am understanding the skill correctly, it just lets you recall what loresinging can tell you about the item. So why would it be worth anything when you can simply write down the description after having a bard normally sing to the item.
My suggestion for simplifying the enchanting and ensorcelling process with this unlocking process mechanically makes sense (to me at least) while it could still maintain the recall aspect it would just provide a service people actually want from the bard and the system is already in place for them as well.
My suggestion for simplifying the enchanting and ensorcelling process with this unlocking process mechanically makes sense (to me at least) while it could still maintain the recall aspect it would just provide a service people actually want from the bard and the system is already in place for them as well.
GS4-VIDUUS
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:31 AM CST
>>On the lower end it may not be entirely useful due to the low cost and ease of completing these services but on the high end could be very useful for someone working on completing a project piece.
One thing I've learned after years of dealing with it as a paladin is that you do not want your abilities tied to being pointless without another profession being involved.
I think there's room to improve bard service offerings, but you probably want to steer clear of it's only valued if combined with another profession's offering.
Viduus
One thing I've learned after years of dealing with it as a paladin is that you do not want your abilities tied to being pointless without another profession being involved.
I think there's room to improve bard service offerings, but you probably want to steer clear of it's only valued if combined with another profession's offering.
Viduus
NAAMIT
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:38 AM CST
> It's not so much useless as it's the prices the vocal minority are trying to establish as the baseline for the service is turning people off it. If you ask around, it's actually pretty easy to find someone to unlock things for a reasonable amount or tips only... esp if the item isn't already massively tricked out (which is really when you should get loresongs unlocked anyway, if possible)
All professions should have services that other players value enough to offer to pay for. Wizards, sorcerers, and monks should not be the sole revenue generators. How many wizards and sorcerers would agree that they should sell their hard-earned juice and hand it out for mere tips? Zero. Because they already went through the trouble of establishing baselines. Yeah I would like to get enchanting and ensorcelling for the mere cost of a tip too.... Wouldn't we all.
My time should be worth something and I don't believe the cost of what I am asking for is outrageous for the time spent in concert with the requisite skill necessary to get there. If you don't want to pay for it, then grind yourself out 25m exp bard and RECALL your own junk.
Simply put, people do not value the bard loresong unlock service because it provides zero mechanical benefit. If Bard service provided a mechanical benefit, it would be worth something and bards could charge out the nose, just like wizards, sorcerers and monks.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
All professions should have services that other players value enough to offer to pay for. Wizards, sorcerers, and monks should not be the sole revenue generators. How many wizards and sorcerers would agree that they should sell their hard-earned juice and hand it out for mere tips? Zero. Because they already went through the trouble of establishing baselines. Yeah I would like to get enchanting and ensorcelling for the mere cost of a tip too.... Wouldn't we all.
My time should be worth something and I don't believe the cost of what I am asking for is outrageous for the time spent in concert with the requisite skill necessary to get there. If you don't want to pay for it, then grind yourself out 25m exp bard and RECALL your own junk.
Simply put, people do not value the bard loresong unlock service because it provides zero mechanical benefit. If Bard service provided a mechanical benefit, it would be worth something and bards could charge out the nose, just like wizards, sorcerers and monks.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
LUXELLE
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:52 AM CST
>If I am understanding the skill correctly, it just lets you recall what loresinging can tell you about the item. So why would it be worth anything when you can simply write down the description after having a bard normally sing to the item.
No, you may misunderstand what permanently unlocking a loresong will do.
In addition to the owner of an item being able to see a custom loresong whenever thy want, the loresong will STAY CURRENT to the existing stats on an item.
It will tell you the current state of enhancives, X/days, enchanting, ensorcelling, and whatever else has happened or been added to that item since the bard sang to it, including the new difficulty line.
That's the real value of unlocked loresongs. It will save you tracking down a bard when you need to check the charges, or whatever else that needs a quick check.
That flaring +20 falchion is probably not a good candidate for it. But a project or often used enhancive ... may be. I unlock so many adventure guild badges, for instance.
~L.
---
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No, you may misunderstand what permanently unlocking a loresong will do.
In addition to the owner of an item being able to see a custom loresong whenever thy want, the loresong will STAY CURRENT to the existing stats on an item.
It will tell you the current state of enhancives, X/days, enchanting, ensorcelling, and whatever else has happened or been added to that item since the bard sang to it, including the new difficulty line.
That's the real value of unlocked loresongs. It will save you tracking down a bard when you need to check the charges, or whatever else that needs a quick check.
That flaring +20 falchion is probably not a good candidate for it. But a project or often used enhancive ... may be. I unlock so many adventure guild badges, for instance.
~L.
---
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NAAMIT
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:53 AM CST
Here are a handful of ideas:
* Boost to "luck" in the form of a dice modifier, like truestrike or surita, tiered from 5-25% on weapons. Shield and Armor offer the same but for defensive reactions in the form of EBP, Dodge, CvA, or TD.
* Periodic boost to efficacy of existing flares, padding, and weighting.
* Temp bonus to enhancives and enhanced items, similar to supercharging but at no increased depletion
* Issues a pause on enhancive/temp enhancement degradation
* Periodic experience modifiers
* Ability to give reactive sonic air flares to people's shields and armor
* Ability for someone to "self-knowledge" a bard song on their own once a day from an item
* Ability to craft instruments for people that yield enhanced absorption rates, which count toward profession service juice absorption as well
* Trading bonus modification
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
* Boost to "luck" in the form of a dice modifier, like truestrike or surita, tiered from 5-25% on weapons. Shield and Armor offer the same but for defensive reactions in the form of EBP, Dodge, CvA, or TD.
* Periodic boost to efficacy of existing flares, padding, and weighting.
* Temp bonus to enhancives and enhanced items, similar to supercharging but at no increased depletion
* Issues a pause on enhancive/temp enhancement degradation
* Periodic experience modifiers
* Ability to give reactive sonic air flares to people's shields and armor
* Ability for someone to "self-knowledge" a bard song on their own once a day from an item
* Ability to craft instruments for people that yield enhanced absorption rates, which count toward profession service juice absorption as well
* Trading bonus modification
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:53 AM CST
>> Simply put, people do not value the bard loresong unlock service because it provides zero mechanical benefit. If Bard service provided a mechanical benefit, it would be worth something and bards could charge out the nose, just like wizards, sorcerers and monks.
I don't know that I would go so far as to say it has to provide mechanical benefit (though I think this is a valid perspective) but I do agree that the current Bard offering is not valued by many of the players. For myself personally, I have zero interest in the current bard offering. It is way too niche of an ability given that most items don't even have a loresong associated with them.
If the bard could, for example, ADD a loresong to an item then I suspect that this might have more value for more players (while still not being a mechanical offering.)
-- Robert
>> [You have failed your current Adventurer's Guild task.]
I don't know that I would go so far as to say it has to provide mechanical benefit (though I think this is a valid perspective) but I do agree that the current Bard offering is not valued by many of the players. For myself personally, I have zero interest in the current bard offering. It is way too niche of an ability given that most items don't even have a loresong associated with them.
If the bard could, for example, ADD a loresong to an item then I suspect that this might have more value for more players (while still not being a mechanical offering.)
-- Robert
>> [You have failed your current Adventurer's Guild task.]
GHOSTPANTS
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:55 AM CST
@Viduus - I do certainly agree that being tied to someone else’s work is not ideal, however when it is something as common and important as enchanting and ensorcelling while still maintaining the “unlocking” theme it could be very useful. The balancing aspect could be quite difficult however because you don’t want a bunch of insane items flooding the market due to all these bards sitting on capped lkp at the moment.
I’m sure there are many other people with much better ideas but this was what came to mind that thematically made sense so I figured I would share it for whatever it is worth.
I’m sure there are many other people with much better ideas but this was what came to mind that thematically made sense so I figured I would share it for whatever it is worth.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 11:56 AM CST
>> It will tell you the current state of enhancives, X/days, enchanting, ensorcelling, and whatever else has happened or been added to that item since the bard sang to it, including the new difficulty line.
Huh... I didn't even realize this. It is a bit cooler of an ability than I previously realized. Sounds like part of the issue here may be in the marketing of the skill.
-- Robert
>> [You have failed your current Adventurer's Guild task.]
Huh... I didn't even realize this. It is a bit cooler of an ability than I previously realized. Sounds like part of the issue here may be in the marketing of the skill.
-- Robert
>> [You have failed your current Adventurer's Guild task.]
GHOSTPANTS
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 12:04 PM CST
@Luxelle - that is sort of the issue though, you are stuck only with these high end items and project pieces which will require top tier bards.
I’m sure a huge portion of players sit in a basic 4x armour and weapon to cap. A wizard and sorcerers work begins at a basic item and at level 25 & 35.
If my proposed idea of increased success was added in it could be tied to character level and or spell ranks. That way if someone has a project piece in mind. They can full unlock up to tier 5 and save money / essence or whatever may be all the way up.
LUXELLE
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 12:08 PM CST
>Useless
I just posted about its current working value. I do believe that part of the "useless" perception is not understanding how it works.
>It's not so much useless as it's the prices the vocal minority are trying to establish as the baseline for the service is turning people off it.
It's been live nearly 2 years, and I am unaware of a new movement afoot to change the pricing structure. It was already a fairly valuable service, granted, for a very small set of people, but it just got a wee bit better with the difficulty addition.
I am looking forward to it becoming an even better tool in the future. Some terrific suggestions have been made.
~L.
---
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
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I just posted about its current working value. I do believe that part of the "useless" perception is not understanding how it works.
>It's not so much useless as it's the prices the vocal minority are trying to establish as the baseline for the service is turning people off it.
It's been live nearly 2 years, and I am unaware of a new movement afoot to change the pricing structure. It was already a fairly valuable service, granted, for a very small set of people, but it just got a wee bit better with the difficulty addition.
I am looking forward to it becoming an even better tool in the future. Some terrific suggestions have been made.
~L.
---
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
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LUXELLE
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 12:25 PM CST
All the things Miss Naamit said. Where is that +100 button again?!
---
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GS4-ESTILD
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 12:29 PM CST
We don't consider loresong unlocking to be the same caliber as other profession services. However, we do think it's a worthwhile ability to have in the game. It's up to players, bards and non-bards, to set what they think is a fair price for the work. We do have a good idea for an actual bard profession service that we'll be looking at when we review the entire bard profession.
GameMaster Estild
GameMaster Estild
DOUG
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 12:33 PM CST
>>a good idea
Naamit luck charms to replace the woefully under-powered Ilvari luck charms? Hmm?
Doug
Naamit luck charms to replace the woefully under-powered Ilvari luck charms? Hmm?
Doug
OM1E5GA
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 02:30 PM CST
<All professions should have services that other players value enough to offer to pay for. Wizards, sorcerers, and monks should not be the sole revenue generators.>
Those looking for the service have nothing to do with this, that's completely up to NIR.
<How many wizards and sorcerers would agree that they should sell their hard-earned juice and hand it out for mere tips? Zero. Because they already went through the trouble of establishing baselines. Yeah I would like to get enchanting and ensorcelling for the mere cost of a tip too.... Wouldn't we all.>
You're welcome to charge whatever you like to unlock loresongs, no one's saying otherwise. The thing is, if you're asking for more then other bards, people are going to go to those other bards unless there's a compelling reason not to. If all bards are charging more for then potential customers are willing to pay, they'll just do without. That's kinda how economies work.
A little secret on both sorcerers and wizards, it's not really difficult to find members either profession willing work below what's considered their baselines unless you have a difficult piece.
<My time should be worth something and I don't believe the cost of what I am asking for is outrageous for the time spent in concert with the requisite skill necessary to get there. If you don't want to pay for it, then grind yourself out 25m exp bard and RECALL your own junk.>
The thing is, you aren't the only bard in Elanthia and you have no idea what I think is a fair price for loresong unlocks.
If I decide I'd like the loresong on a piece of my gear unlocked, I'll figure out a price I think is fair and put up a message here, on Discord, on the thought network, and/or the PC saying what I got and is anyone willing to unlock it for what I'm offering. If you aren't willing to accept my price and someone else is, I'm happy, the bard that accepted my offer is happy, and you get to keep your LKP for someone that's willing to pay your price if you can find someone to. If no one takes me up on it, I have to either decide to do without or increase my offering price.
No one cares what it takes for you to earn LKP or me to earn necrojuice, they only care about the end result and what that's worth to them.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Those looking for the service have nothing to do with this, that's completely up to NIR.
<How many wizards and sorcerers would agree that they should sell their hard-earned juice and hand it out for mere tips? Zero. Because they already went through the trouble of establishing baselines. Yeah I would like to get enchanting and ensorcelling for the mere cost of a tip too.... Wouldn't we all.>
You're welcome to charge whatever you like to unlock loresongs, no one's saying otherwise. The thing is, if you're asking for more then other bards, people are going to go to those other bards unless there's a compelling reason not to. If all bards are charging more for then potential customers are willing to pay, they'll just do without. That's kinda how economies work.
A little secret on both sorcerers and wizards, it's not really difficult to find members either profession willing work below what's considered their baselines unless you have a difficult piece.
<My time should be worth something and I don't believe the cost of what I am asking for is outrageous for the time spent in concert with the requisite skill necessary to get there. If you don't want to pay for it, then grind yourself out 25m exp bard and RECALL your own junk.>
The thing is, you aren't the only bard in Elanthia and you have no idea what I think is a fair price for loresong unlocks.
If I decide I'd like the loresong on a piece of my gear unlocked, I'll figure out a price I think is fair and put up a message here, on Discord, on the thought network, and/or the PC saying what I got and is anyone willing to unlock it for what I'm offering. If you aren't willing to accept my price and someone else is, I'm happy, the bard that accepted my offer is happy, and you get to keep your LKP for someone that's willing to pay your price if you can find someone to. If no one takes me up on it, I have to either decide to do without or increase my offering price.
No one cares what it takes for you to earn LKP or me to earn necrojuice, they only care about the end result and what that's worth to them.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
NAAMIT
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 03:33 PM CST
> No one cares what it takes for you to earn LKP or me to earn necrojuice, they only care about the end result and what that's worth to them.
Yep and as you've made clear, you don't think LKP is worth anything. It's cool, I get it.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
Yep and as you've made clear, you don't think LKP is worth anything. It's cool, I get it.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
OM1E5GA
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 04:07 PM CST
<Yep and as you've made clear, you don't think LKP is worth anything. It's cool, I get it.>
I didn't say that at all, I said it's worth precisely what someone's willing to pay for it, no more no less.
I've got no clue whether you value an unlock at 100k, 500k, 1mil, or 100mil.... but whatever it is, I hope you find a buyer and if they're willing to pay that last amount let them know I have a enough juice to do a T1 if they need it.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I didn't say that at all, I said it's worth precisely what someone's willing to pay for it, no more no less.
I've got no clue whether you value an unlock at 100k, 500k, 1mil, or 100mil.... but whatever it is, I hope you find a buyer and if they're willing to pay that last amount let them know I have a enough juice to do a T1 if they need it.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
NAAMIT
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 04:55 PM CST
Folks usually don't buy expensive juice for an easy project. Not unlike paying a premium for difficult enchanting and ensorcelling, you employ a highly skilled bard because you have some stupid complicated item that lower trained bards can't handle. That's precisely why there's a very vocal minority of folks who command a paying wage.
By the by, if any bards are interested in learning their recall bonus, check out the lich script called TOTALRECALL. It's a reskin of ;tears for bard juice, using the bard formula. It uses a new numbering system, now that we have the complete formula, unlike in my prior tests (see about 20 posts ago). Base minimum to unlock any item is 500 bonus. 10% supposed to be 525 bonus, ignoring the unlock difficulty defect currently outstanding so you hit the 10% closer to 612. Under that same defect and likely after, the difficulty caps at 700 bonus for 99% success.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
By the by, if any bards are interested in learning their recall bonus, check out the lich script called TOTALRECALL. It's a reskin of ;tears for bard juice, using the bard formula. It uses a new numbering system, now that we have the complete formula, unlike in my prior tests (see about 20 posts ago). Base minimum to unlock any item is 500 bonus. 10% supposed to be 525 bonus, ignoring the unlock difficulty defect currently outstanding so you hit the 10% closer to 612. Under that same defect and likely after, the difficulty caps at 700 bonus for 99% success.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
OM1E5GA
Re: Bard LKP ideas
12/07/2020 06:28 PM CST
<Folks usually don't buy expensive juice for an easy project. Not unlike paying a premium for difficult enchanting and ensorcelling, you employ a highly skilled bard because you have some stupid complicated item that lower trained bards can't handle. That's precisely why there's a very vocal minority of folks who command a paying wage.>
I understand that... I don't care about the prices for that gear, by all means get what the whales that own that stuff will pay for it (their idea of what things in SL are worth is obscene anyway). I MIGHT own two items that would qualify for that level of skill across all my characters and I wouldn't pay what it would cost to have them enchanted above what they currently are, nevermind anything else (I reserve the right to change my opinion on this depending on future bank balances and unforeseen acquisitions).
What I care about is the bards that aren't as skilled as you seeing what you're charging and how much you're insisting unlocking is worth and thinking I'm gonna pay as much or more then my items are worth just to unlock their loresongs. Mid 6 digits to unlock something worth a couple mil, no prob.... 7 digits to unlock that auction or major raffle quality item, sounds reasonable.... 300k to unlock a 5x lance, heck no I can buy one for less then that.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I understand that... I don't care about the prices for that gear, by all means get what the whales that own that stuff will pay for it (their idea of what things in SL are worth is obscene anyway). I MIGHT own two items that would qualify for that level of skill across all my characters and I wouldn't pay what it would cost to have them enchanted above what they currently are, nevermind anything else (I reserve the right to change my opinion on this depending on future bank balances and unforeseen acquisitions).
What I care about is the bards that aren't as skilled as you seeing what you're charging and how much you're insisting unlocking is worth and thinking I'm gonna pay as much or more then my items are worth just to unlock their loresongs. Mid 6 digits to unlock something worth a couple mil, no prob.... 7 digits to unlock that auction or major raffle quality item, sounds reasonable.... 300k to unlock a 5x lance, heck no I can buy one for less then that.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
