Had a bit of a eureka moment with loresong unlock difficulty this morning that very few people likely care about, but I will share it nonetheless, and make a request along with it.
I determined today that having a 200 lorescore bonus is the base minimum required to unlock the highest difficulty items. It appears to scale down in linear fashion from .99% at 200 bonus, to 10% at ~210 bonus (stats for which Estild provided), and so on to 99% success at a 300 bonus mutant build.
The 300 lorescore bonus spec would be all but impossible to gain LKPs under the current design of bards needing kill points to progress. Whether anyone would dare respec into a 300 lorescore bonus if LKPs are switched to raw experience is questionable, though not out of the realm of possibility (i.e. a very expensive pocket bard). No one would pay for a fixskill to go mutant. The service simply isn't valuable enough to warrant it.
If and when loresong unlocks are reviewed again, I would like to request either a), the scaling be condensed across the board, or b) at the very least, scaling between 200 and 300 be condensed to max out at at 250 bonus.
Reducing the ceiling to 250 would allow post-cap bards that are still trained to be playable, the opportunity to have a 60% chance to unlock any item under the following specs for a pure Bard-- Level: 100, Bard Ranks: 127, Tele: 26, AU: 25, INF: 25, MIU: 101, EMC: 101, MMC: 101.
This would also put a melee bard at the top of the class, with 250 bonus effective at Level: 100, Bard Ranks: 127, Tele: 72, AU: 25, INF: 25, MIU: 100, EMC: 100, MMC: 100.
Thanks!
Helpful Information:
Loresong Bonus saved post: https://gswiki.play.net/Loresinging/saved_posts#Loresong_Unlocks_2
Lorescore calculator: https://www.gstowncrier.com/loresong-unlocking-calculator/
Examples of these highest difficulty items include:
* 3x/day Invisibility item
* +50 greatsword, sanctified, undeadbane, crit weighted, disintegration flares, T5, enhancive
* +50 morning star, GUB, crit weighting, grapple flares, weapon bonded, T5 ensorcel, clubbing script
* +50 doubles, T5 ensorcell, T9 Ithzir (4 escape tree, 4 condition tree, 1 healing tree), 25% slash resistance, 20% crush resistance, 20% puncture resistance. 11 CER damage , 20 CER crit
* +40/+50 GUB whip, masterful damage weighting, light crit weighting
* +50 coraesine pike, crit weighted, Ironwright flares (void was active), sanctified, extraplanar bane+crit weighting
* +50 runestaff, bubble flares, 10x acuity, T5 ensorcel
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
NAAMIT
HEBREW2YOU
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
10/29/2020 03:46 PM CDT
I've been training up the last of my EMC and bard ranks, checking with each additional tick to see when I would hit various failure points, ending at the 10% mark Estild referenced here: https://gswiki.play.net/Loresinging/saved_posts#Loresong_Unlocks_2
Unfortunately, it isn't happening and I believe there is a defect either in the difficulty rating for items, or for how the bard's bonus is calculated. I bugged my whip on the prime server yesterday with my stats, which are now outdated.
Would appreciate it if you could look into it. Happy to provide more evidence if needed.
Data:
In-progress
Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 102 Bard, 26 Telepathy, 76 MIU, 101 EMC, 101 MMC
Bonus: 208
Difficulty rating on whip: miracle, open roll
Maximum possible my 1030 bard can do:
Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 126 Bard, 26 Telepathy, 101 MIU/EMC/MMC
Bonus: 226
Difficulty rating on whip: miracle, open roll
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
Unfortunately, it isn't happening and I believe there is a defect either in the difficulty rating for items, or for how the bard's bonus is calculated. I bugged my whip on the prime server yesterday with my stats, which are now outdated.
Would appreciate it if you could look into it. Happy to provide more evidence if needed.
Data:
In-progress
Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 102 Bard, 26 Telepathy, 76 MIU, 101 EMC, 101 MMC
Bonus: 208
Difficulty rating on whip: miracle, open roll
Maximum possible my 1030 bard can do:
Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 126 Bard, 26 Telepathy, 101 MIU/EMC/MMC
Bonus: 226
Difficulty rating on whip: miracle, open roll
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
11/04/2020 02:01 PM CST
Finally hit the magic number. My whip still requires a miracle/open roll. Lore skill calculation is definitely not working as advertised.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
11/10/2020 08:12 PM CST
May I please get confirmation from staff that this is borked and it will be addressed or something else is planned to remedidate? I am now at 211 bonus in Prime and items are still "miracle/open roll". Let's ignore what I have seen in Test that corroborates the issue persists beyond ~250 bonus.
---
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
---
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
11/17/2020 09:05 AM CST
Hello, haven't heard from anyone so I'll add a bit more data to the pool for consideration. I took Luxelle's Lore Calculator and changed it to use whole numbers instead of partial just to make things easier (it should have no appreciable impact, +/- a couple points and the issue persists way beyond that as evidenced below).
1. Per Estild on discord on 12/6/2018: "MIU, EMC, and MMC are all weighted evenly, which is half as effective as spell ranks past level. Ranks past level give the same bonus as Telepathy ranks, Aura stat bonus, and Influence stat bonus. Spell ranks up to level are weighted twice as heavily as spell ranks above level (and thus the highest contributor of any factor)."
2. Per Estild on the forums on 9/13/2019: "At level 100, with 100 bard spellsong ranks, 100 ranks of Magical Item Use, Elemental Mana Control, Mental Mana Control, 25 ranks of Mental Lore - Telepathy, and an Aura and Influence bonus of 25 each, a bard will have a 10% chance to successfully unlock any item."
3. Per Estild on the forums on 8/14/2019: "You can adjust the numbers for specific bonuses to reach the same overall chance (e.g. less Influence, but a higher Aura bonus).""
Mathed as follows
Level: ??? Eliminated entirely from calculation because we were never given the factor. It's also a constant 100 in the tests below.
Bard ranks to 100 = 4
Ranks past level = 2
Telepathy = 2
Aura Bonus = 2
Inf Bonus = 2
MIU = 1
EMC = 1
MMC = 1
With the calculations above (entirely ignoring level as its a constant 100 below), a bonus of 850 is required to have a 10% chance to unlock any item.
As you can see below, you won't get to 10% until at least 1000 though.
Using a 3x/day Invisibility amulet, here are my chances, actual and expected by using "RECALL <item>" after loresinging. I utilized the with the roll/%chance difficulty chart which had also been confirmed by Estild for use with ensorcelling here: https://gswiki.play.net/Ensorcell_(735)#Difficulties
Tests:
0. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 0 Telepathy, 99 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 797.
Actual: impossible. Expected: impossible.
1. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 0 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 800.
Actual: open roll. Expected: open roll.
2. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 25 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 850. <-- Estild's scenario above
Actual: *open roll.* Expected: 10% or 1+% by the chart
3. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 100 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1000.
Actual: 1+% Expected: 50% or 35+% by the chart
4. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 0 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1000.
Actual: 1+% Expected: 50% or 35+% by the chart
5. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 25 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1050.
Actual: 15+% Expected: 62% or 55+% by the chart
6. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 50 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1100.
Actual: 35+% Expected: 75% or 75+% by the chart
7. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 100 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1200.
Actual: 99% Expected: 99% by the chart
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
1. Per Estild on discord on 12/6/2018: "MIU, EMC, and MMC are all weighted evenly, which is half as effective as spell ranks past level. Ranks past level give the same bonus as Telepathy ranks, Aura stat bonus, and Influence stat bonus. Spell ranks up to level are weighted twice as heavily as spell ranks above level (and thus the highest contributor of any factor)."
2. Per Estild on the forums on 9/13/2019: "At level 100, with 100 bard spellsong ranks, 100 ranks of Magical Item Use, Elemental Mana Control, Mental Mana Control, 25 ranks of Mental Lore - Telepathy, and an Aura and Influence bonus of 25 each, a bard will have a 10% chance to successfully unlock any item."
3. Per Estild on the forums on 8/14/2019: "You can adjust the numbers for specific bonuses to reach the same overall chance (e.g. less Influence, but a higher Aura bonus).""
Mathed as follows
Level: ??? Eliminated entirely from calculation because we were never given the factor. It's also a constant 100 in the tests below.
Bard ranks to 100 = 4
Ranks past level = 2
Telepathy = 2
Aura Bonus = 2
Inf Bonus = 2
MIU = 1
EMC = 1
MMC = 1
With the calculations above (entirely ignoring level as its a constant 100 below), a bonus of 850 is required to have a 10% chance to unlock any item.
As you can see below, you won't get to 10% until at least 1000 though.
Using a 3x/day Invisibility amulet, here are my chances, actual and expected by using "RECALL <item>" after loresinging. I utilized the with the roll/%chance difficulty chart which had also been confirmed by Estild for use with ensorcelling here: https://gswiki.play.net/Ensorcell_(735)#Difficulties
Tests:
0. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 0 Telepathy, 99 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 797.
Actual: impossible. Expected: impossible.
1. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 0 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 800.
Actual: open roll. Expected: open roll.
2. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 25 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 850. <-- Estild's scenario above
Actual: *open roll.* Expected: 10% or 1+% by the chart
3. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 100 Bard, 100 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1000.
Actual: 1+% Expected: 50% or 35+% by the chart
4. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 0 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1000.
Actual: 1+% Expected: 50% or 35+% by the chart
5. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 25 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1050.
Actual: 15+% Expected: 62% or 55+% by the chart
6. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 50 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1100.
Actual: 35+% Expected: 75% or 75+% by the chart
7. Level 100, 20 AU, 30 INF, 200 Bard, 100 Telepathy, 100 MIU/EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1200.
Actual: 99% Expected: 99% by the chart
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
11/22/2020 08:43 AM CST
Hi there, approaching another week and still no NIR response. Still can't get expected perm unlock readings on the highest echelon items. Is this just a me problem at this point? Is my bard busted or is the result vs calculation wrong for anyone else fitting the requisite skill? What's the next step here?
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
LUXELLE
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
11/22/2020 02:18 PM CST
I keep training, and keep getting messages about things being beyond my skill. I have not put the research into this that you have, Miss Naamit, but in general, this is a very frustrating and disappointing skill because of the inability to unlock some things, plus other reasons.
I am following these reports here though, and waiting for a resolution!
~L.
---
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: https://www.gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
And more:
https://www.gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
I am following these reports here though, and waiting for a resolution!
~L.
---
ESP TUNE TOWNCRIER or ;tune towncrier
Web: http://gstowncrier.com/
Daily Email: https://www.gstowncrier.com/subscribe/
And more:
https://www.gstowncrier.com/where-to-find-the-towncrier/
P.S. Help Wanted, Inquire Within
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
11/27/2020 05:54 PM CST
Chatted with another high end bard and they mentioned seeing similar problems. Had them check the two items I had been using for my tests: a 3x day amulet and the Castlevania whip (both of which have been bugged in-game).
Level 100, 30 AU, 25 INF, 127 Bard, 46 Telepathy, 202 MIU, 100 EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1058.
Result Expected: 55+%
Result Actual: 15+%.
There is a definite defect here. Would appreciate a response from staff.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
Level 100, 30 AU, 25 INF, 127 Bard, 46 Telepathy, 202 MIU, 100 EMC/MMC. Bonus: 1058.
Result Expected: 55+%
Result Actual: 15+%.
There is a definite defect here. Would appreciate a response from staff.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
12/01/2020 08:19 AM CST
New month, five more days with no response.
Another high-end bard told me reported the issue several months ago too.
Growing pretty flipping frustrated over here.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
Another high-end bard told me reported the issue several months ago too.
Growing pretty flipping frustrated over here.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
NAAMIT
Re: Loresong unlock bonuses
12/02/2020 02:29 PM CST
Estild confirmed there is a defect with RECALLing max difficulty items.
Sharing is caring - will post more if/when I hear it.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
Sharing is caring - will post more if/when I hear it.
Some lady softly says, "Naamit is over-rated."
You reply, speaking to the lady, "At least I have ratings."
