So my Bard has recently forayed into a new area, where it is worth my while to be well-equipped.
And what exactly has this to do with a Wizard discussion, I hear you cry?
Well, to a Bard, "well-equipped" means "stocked with wands to Unravel for mana refueling."
And it seems to me that I can get in a quick sextupling of mana just by using a Silver to Gold (Holy Receptacle/325 tier 1) gem on all these silver wands that I find.
If there's one thing a Bard is NOT short on, it's orb gems. So I'm pretty sure I can keep both a Cleric (making StG Receptacles) and a Wizard (making Charge orbs) stocked for a long while.
My question(s) is/are:
- Is it better to Charge/517 the silver wand up front, or the gold wand at the end?
- Is it better to Duplicate/918 before or after Charging?
- Is it harder to Silver to Gold a Charged wand than it is a fresh one?
.
The obvious (seeming) progression would be to:
charge up the silvers (1st level, so they're easy),
then convert them (harder with more charges?),
then Duplicate them,
thereby going from a "found" state of what, 6-10 waves @ 1 mana each to a Duplicated Charged state of 2x 40 waves @ 6 mana each, for the low low cost of two orb gems and some time spent fiddling.
Time, I got.
My normal "go-to" wands for him to Unravel are blue (9th level) and crystal (10th level), so I'm hoping to get pretty decent results out of high-charge golds.
.
Anyone have any feedback that they've observed on, uhhh, ANY of these steps? :)
KRAKII
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Maximizing mana
11/27/2017 07:42 PM CST
>> My question(s) is/are:
>> - Is it better to Charge/517 the silver wand up front, or the gold wand at the end?
>> - Is it better to Duplicate/918 before or after Charging?
>> - Is it harder to Silver to Gold a Charged wand than it is a fresh one?
I don't know the answer to any of your questions. Generally speaking I always duplicate, then charge on the (untested) assumption that when you duplicate the item it will split, or at least reduce, the charges across both copies (and I don't really want to charge them, then dupe them, then charge them more when it is easier for me just to charge them at the end). Likewise I might expect that your charges would be reduced when you go from silver to gold - but if not(!) then that would certainly be a much more efficient route to take: 1) charge your silver wand, 2) dupe them, 3) Win (assuming they can still be converted and still have 40 waves).
I'd be happy to do some testing with you if you need or want the assistance and I'd be happy to do some bulk item charging for you as well if needed. Just let me know!
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
>> - Is it better to Charge/517 the silver wand up front, or the gold wand at the end?
>> - Is it better to Duplicate/918 before or after Charging?
>> - Is it harder to Silver to Gold a Charged wand than it is a fresh one?
I don't know the answer to any of your questions. Generally speaking I always duplicate, then charge on the (untested) assumption that when you duplicate the item it will split, or at least reduce, the charges across both copies (and I don't really want to charge them, then dupe them, then charge them more when it is easier for me just to charge them at the end). Likewise I might expect that your charges would be reduced when you go from silver to gold - but if not(!) then that would certainly be a much more efficient route to take: 1) charge your silver wand, 2) dupe them, 3) Win (assuming they can still be converted and still have 40 waves).
I'd be happy to do some testing with you if you need or want the assistance and I'd be happy to do some bulk item charging for you as well if needed. Just let me know!
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
VUWH60A
Re: Maximizing mana
11/28/2017 07:31 PM CST
I have not tried in years but I do not think you can duplicate a charged wand.
:D
KRAKII
DMWCINCY
Re: Maximizing mana
12/04/2017 06:42 PM CST
Would ranger rods be of any use. Not sure how much mana they could hold compared to orbs or silver wands.
KRAKII
Re: Maximizing mana
12/04/2017 10:02 PM CST
Good thinking, I can try draining some of those, too.
But I don't think they'll add up to enough: I think the best ranger rod ever caps out around 90-ish mana and cannot be charged, where a fresh crystal wand (assuming 10 charges) would be a hundred... and forty charges of (silver, now become) gold would be 240.
But I don't think they'll add up to enough: I think the best ranger rod ever caps out around 90-ish mana and cannot be charged, where a fresh crystal wand (assuming 10 charges) would be a hundred... and forty charges of (silver, now become) gold would be 240.
JTYLER
Re: Maximizing mana
01/22/2018 08:19 AM CST
Hello!
Did you science this? What were your results?
My bard's still a baby so no real need for mass unravel spamming, but I would love to know for the future!
KRAKII
Re: Maximizing mana
01/22/2018 08:39 AM CST
I did not yet.
(I blame the holidays. And, lazy. :)
.
Periodically I look at a stack of Duplicated silver wands before I pawn them, and think to myself, "Self, you should do that testing..." But then I usually get distracted by <something else>.
(I blame the holidays. And, lazy. :)
.
Periodically I look at a stack of Duplicated silver wands before I pawn them, and think to myself, "Self, you should do that testing..." But then I usually get distracted by <something else>.
KRAKII
Re: Maximizing mana
02/21/2018 02:01 PM CST
"Did you science this?" -- JTyler
Eventually I remembered to grab some screen-shots while hunting.
"What were your results?" -- ibid
- I believe I recall using the smallest of the orb gems that I keep, so 8000-silver uncuts (either emeralds or diamonds).
- I wound up using a total of three (3): one (1) to make the orb itself and, because I had found a bunch of silver wands that got Duplicated, two (2) for the cleric for use in turning them all into Silver-to-Gold Holy Receptacles/325.
- For comparison, I am including StG charged Duplicated wands, and also some found Duplicated crystal & blue, as well as a Treekin Druid who happened to be in the wrong spot at the right time.
- I hit 83rd level/65 Songs known the day before I started capturing, and I just hit 84th this past Sunday the 18th, so it looks like the Druid casts were at the higher CS. However, spells known/"base amount of mana drawn" didn't change (because I blew the whole level's points on +9 ranks of CM to get SBash rank3).
Robert's conclusion: Mana returns do seem to be a teensy little bit denser (mana-per-time spent) on average, but I'm probably not going to screw around with it. Because at the very least it costs me the time to do the session and two (2) orb gems: one for the orb/Charge Item, and one for the Holy Receptacle.
MAYBE when I'm at cap, and have hit my eventual goal of 123 BardSongs, to get that giant "chunk" of mana pulled out on the first one.
For comparison: before the GS4 conversion, Galenblackbard posted the following (126th level, 82 Songs known):
Category Bards (33)
Topic Bardic Research and Training (4)
By CANDIDE from PLAY.NET
On Jan 22, 2003 at 16:07
Message 1013 for krakii (7280)
This should have been a new blue wand.
105 mana minus 21 for mana used.
Mana share 24. MIU 53. Stats. Level 126
and 82 songs known added to the above info.
Constitution (CO): 100 .... 25
Dexterity (DE): 98 .... 29
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 20
Logic (LO): 100 .... 25
Intelligence (IN): 100 .... 25
Strength (ST): 98 .... 24
Reflexes (RE): 97 .... 33
Charisma (CH): 100 .... 30
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 25
Aura (AU): 100 .... 25
You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Song of Unravelling to your song...
Your spellsong is ready.
sing at my wand
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a slender blue wand.
Faintly visible threads of mana begin to unravel themselves from the blue wand and wind towards you.
You gain 63 mana!
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
renew 1013
You sing with renewed vigor!
The faint silvery threads continue to snake between you and the blue wand.
You gain 21 mana!
Renewing "Song of Unravelling" for 4 mana.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
renew 1013
You sing with renewed vigor!
The faint silvery threads continue to snake between you and the blue wand.
You gain 21 mana!
The wand begins to shake violently and disintegrates into a thousand tiny particles of dust!
Your concentration on unravelling the threads of mana is broken.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
PS fairly typical blue wand from my experience, sometimes less on the first go more on the second and third.
Galenblackbard
Eventually I remembered to grab some screen-shots while hunting.
"What were your results?" -- ibid
- I believe I recall using the smallest of the orb gems that I keep, so 8000-silver uncuts (either emeralds or diamonds).
- I wound up using a total of three (3): one (1) to make the orb itself and, because I had found a bunch of silver wands that got Duplicated, two (2) for the cleric for use in turning them all into Silver-to-Gold Holy Receptacles/325.
- For comparison, I am including StG charged Duplicated wands, and also some found Duplicated crystal & blue, as well as a Treekin Druid who happened to be in the wrong spot at the right time.
- I hit 83rd level/65 Songs known the day before I started capturing, and I just hit 84th this past Sunday the 18th, so it looks like the Druid casts were at the higher CS. However, spells known/"base amount of mana drawn" didn't change (because I blew the whole level's points on +9 ranks of CM to get SBash rank3).
| TARGET | Cast / Get | Renew1 / Get | Renew2 / Get | Renew3 / Get | Renew4 / Get | Cost / Time / Net |
| | | | | | | |
| crystal | 13 / 30 | 4 / 52 | 4 / 7 [poof] | 21 / 9s / 68 | ||
| blue 1 | 13 / 33 | 4 / 40 | 4 / 6 [poof] | 21 / 9s / 58 | ||
| blue 2 | 13 / 54 | 4 / 27 [poof] | 17 / 6s / 64 | |||
| StG 1 | 13 / 45 | 4 / 36 | 4 / 22 | 4 / 27 | 4 / 4 [poof] | 29 / 15s / 105 |
| StG 2 | 13 / 22 | 4 / 49 | 4 / 22 | 4 / 13 [poof] | 25 / 12s / 81 | |
| StG 3 | 13 / 31 | 4 / 36 | 4 / 31 | 4 / 27 | 4 / 9 [poof] | 26 / 15s / 105 |
| StG 4 | 13 / 40 | 4 / 36 | 4 / 36 | 4 / 22 [poof] | 25 / 12s / 109 | |
| Druid | 13 / 32 | 6 / [Depress] | 4 / 22 | 4 / 32 | 4 / 4 [empty] | 31 / 15s / 59 |
Robert's conclusion: Mana returns do seem to be a teensy little bit denser (mana-per-time spent) on average, but I'm probably not going to screw around with it. Because at the very least it costs me the time to do the session and two (2) orb gems: one for the orb/Charge Item, and one for the Holy Receptacle.
MAYBE when I'm at cap, and have hit my eventual goal of 123 BardSongs, to get that giant "chunk" of mana pulled out on the first one.
For comparison: before the GS4 conversion, Galenblackbard posted the following (126th level, 82 Songs known):
Category Bards (33)
Topic Bardic Research and Training (4)
By CANDIDE from PLAY.NET
On Jan 22, 2003 at 16:07
Message 1013 for krakii (7280)
This should have been a new blue wand.
105 mana minus 21 for mana used.
Mana share 24. MIU 53. Stats. Level 126
and 82 songs known added to the above info.
Constitution (CO): 100 .... 25
Dexterity (DE): 98 .... 29
Discipline (DI): 100 .... 20
Logic (LO): 100 .... 25
Intelligence (IN): 100 .... 25
Strength (ST): 98 .... 24
Reflexes (RE): 97 .... 33
Charisma (CH): 100 .... 30
Wisdom (WI): 100 .... 25
Aura (AU): 100 .... 25
You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Song of Unravelling to your song...
Your spellsong is ready.
sing at my wand
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a slender blue wand.
Faintly visible threads of mana begin to unravel themselves from the blue wand and wind towards you.
You gain 63 mana!
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
renew 1013
You sing with renewed vigor!
The faint silvery threads continue to snake between you and the blue wand.
You gain 21 mana!
Renewing "Song of Unravelling" for 4 mana.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
renew 1013
You sing with renewed vigor!
The faint silvery threads continue to snake between you and the blue wand.
You gain 21 mana!
The wand begins to shake violently and disintegrates into a thousand tiny particles of dust!
Your concentration on unravelling the threads of mana is broken.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.
PS fairly typical blue wand from my experience, sometimes less on the first go more on the second and third.
Galenblackbard
