I wanted to take a moment to address some concerns about the wiki.

When Simutronics acquired the Krakiipedia, the wiki became an official source of documentation. While the wiki will remain player-driven, our GameMasters will also continue to correct outdated and erroneous information. This has been a work in progress, and we still need to make it more clear which articles are considered official.

During the transition from the Krakiipedia to the GS Wiki, a number of players stood out and helped us with the overwhelming tasks of formatting and correcting the wiki. Many of these players became our first moderators of the wiki. These are the key people who helped shape the wiki for us and pushed for a style guide that we strive to use.

Our lead moderator is currently Allereli. She has put in a vast number of hours and continues to uphold to the standards that were set forth. If you look at her contributions, you can quickly see the huge investment of her time and heavy amount of edits she has performed.

I do realize everyone puts in a lot of effort into the wiki, especially when you spend a lot of time formatting and adding information. It is not a slight to anyone if one of our moderator steps in to either inform you of some needed formatting changes or to lock down a page until things get clarified. This is what they were set to uphold when they became a moderator for our wiki.

One of the concerns that recently came up are when a moderator locks a page or reverts some information. Again we realize a lot of effort goes into these edits. Be mindful that if something is official documentation or an article was edited by a GameMaster, it's something that should get signed off on before making an edit. Using the Village Pump or the Discussion Tab at the top of each article is the best way to communicate an edit.

We appreciate everything everyone does for our wiki. You all help make the GemStone IV community informed and keep documentation more easily to find.

---

Wyrom, PM

I propose official info should be locked by default, and GM's should leave them locked when they finish.

Proactive is better than reactive. A policy against changing special content is better enforced by never letting it happen.

Honestly Wyrom, I would love to stop updating the wiki and leave it to the mods. The problem is they do a poor job. Merchant lists are not updated quickly enough to be useful to the general population. Mechanics changes are not updated in a timely manner. Platinum and Shattered specific information is non-existent from them.

Every time I try to make contributions, and fix things they are too slow on, I have to fight with your lead mod about everything. Worst of all the mods don't tweak and edit when they see something wrong, they remove and revert, then do it themselves when they have time. They seem to destroy as many hours of work as they put in. If there is some super secret wiki editing policy that only the mods have maybe it's time to share it with the rest of us?

We're trying to help and make things better and we're being treated like garbage in response, by your appointed mods.

Keith/Brinret/Eronderl

Keith is correct

-Wyrom, APM

Keith is correct.

-GameMaster Estild

I don't know about the software updates, but I was under the impression the rest of that was accomplished long ago. How many years does it take to slap up some HSN style banners declaring a page official info that shouldn't be touched?

There's some places where it should be obvious that it's official (spells, crit tables, etc), but there are plenty of others where it could go either way. The more I'm reading this folder, the more it's looking like I shouldn't be adding missing info about critters as I hunt new areas or changing much of anything else that isn't a guide I created myself.

When Ensocrell was released, a couple others and I made it a point to get the release info onto that spell's page and somewhat formatted almost immediately. Next time should we leave the page blank until someone "official" gets around to it (looking at the history for the page it was about three months before a mod started editing it)? Or do we wait until a mod/GM starts editing it to leave it alone?

I may not be the most prolific contributor or the most knowledgeable about the mechanics of the wiki, but I have been making contributions longer then most that seem to be dictating the direction of it (which surprised me when I checked)... some of them I've been given the impression were at least slightly significant. Yet it feels like there are being big changes in what the wiki is ment to be and the role players are expected to play... but only those players that were tapped as mods are being kept in the loop as to exactly what that is and the rest of us aren't finding out until contributions are reversed. I don't want to spend hours putting up and formatting new info just to have it removed with a note that only NIR can add/change it.... that was never the case before, but seems to be the way it is now.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

>> I use the wiki multiple times a day when I am playing and sometimes even when I am not playing just to look something up. Everyone who is involved in the wiki gets a big "thank you" from me. It's such a great resource.

I also use the wiki a ton and love the people who have helped me get the stuff that I've worked on updated (Or just straight up updated it before I got around to it) and keep it looking better than I ever would. Seconded on the big "thank you" from me. It IS a great resource.

~ Konacon

Adding my thanks as well for the amazing resource that is our wiki. I spend no time contributing or updating this but damn if I don't appreciate all the effort others dump into it.

~Amanda, player of Treeva

I make updates based on personal experience.
(i.e. I just killed a Stone Troll with a Bard spell, I'll update the Bard TD.)

And I also update for convenience and/or sensible order, but again that's based on experience (like trying to decipher why I'm seeing THIS order HERE while reading the items in THAT order THERE). If there's a sign (about inventory) in one order and a shop (actual) inventory in a DIFFERENT order... that's just ridiculous.
(i.e. sorting some Duskruin shop inventories into increasing order by price, or by "Tier unlocked" [0->1, 1->2, 2->3] rather than "alphabetically by name of certificate", or "sorting Ranger Ranged trinkets into the same order as the sign", or "by AsG #", are some recent examples that spring to mind.)

>The only takeaway I've gotten from official word (Wyrom) and official wiki mods is that my contributions aren't welcome.

>Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player

Certainly not the case with me, I welcome your contributions. I have no idea what your issue with any mod might be. I am not privy to your emails to staff (as it should be). I have not seen you post anything on the Talk pages or Village Pump to communicate any problem with anyone. I saw you post when the whax doll page was locked down, but it was, like everything else, fully explained in detail why it had to be locked down for one hour. I have never tried to do anything but help you, including emailing you extensive logs of festival rooms whenever you have asked for them, so please help me here to understand what your anger is about.

>>I use the wiki multiple times a day when I am playing and sometimes even when I am not playing just to look something up. Everyone who is involved in the wiki gets a big "thank you" from me. It's such a great resource.


+1

I tend to have the wiki up & ready when I'm playing, especially when I'm not playing Clunk.

~

>>(which I have written Wyrom about and was awaiting a reply to)

I don't have any emails from you, but I do know aol.com email addresses routinely get marked as spam, which I'm pretty sure that's what you use. There is nothing in my spam from you though. I did have a message from you that was sent to my mobile device by aim, but there aren't any details in that to go off of.

---

Wyrom, PM

>>I don't have any emails from you, but I do know aol.com email addresses routinely get marked as spam, which I'm pretty sure that's what you use. There is nothing in my spam from you though. I did have a message from you that was sent to my mobile device by aim, but there aren't any details in that to go off of.

For what it's worth, I just resent it from my gmail account.

Wee Sleepy Gnomette's player

Cloth-of-eonake: for when you absolutely, positively need to have zombie-impenetrable underwear. - Denil

When my scripts are acting up, I take Modrian with Coding. After a few hours, they feel like new! - MAXMANJ

>You can't bully someone who is in a position of power over you.

the person has declared and acknowledged that I have no real power over anyone, then gone on to berate and harass me. The person has also written to feedback and supervising GMs about me, and has forced me to spend days answering questions to defend my positions, curtailing progress on the Wiki. So why don't you tell me who has power now?

The issue of tact and thoughtfulness was discussed in the wizard forums awhile back and I believe a few folks responded with they were too busy to take the time to be more considerate and thoughtful in providing feedback and participating in discussions.

So ya, if anyone has the position that it takes too much time to be more thoughtful and considerate when giving feedback regarding others trying to participate in the community, you need to really reflect on whether you're fostering the kind of mutual respect and friendly environment that attracts newcomers and encourages growth or not.


As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4

>Honestly Wyrom, I would love to stop updating the wiki and leave it to the mods. The problem is they do a poor job. Merchant lists are not updated quickly enough to be useful to the general population. Mechanics changes are not updated in a timely manner. Platinum and Shattered specific information is non-existent from them.

Its got too official and as a result suffers from the same flaws in these areas that the old official web pages used to. Its just a whole lot more aggravating to players when its a player stopping you keeping the wiki accurate rather than on-site stopping GMs keeping the official website accurate.

>Worst of all the mods don't tweak and edit when they see something wrong, they remove and revert,

This is terrible practice. Reverting is essentially saying "you are a troll, go away" to the contributing player.

@allen

My point is that you are using an interaction that has nothing to do with the Wiki to pile on the complaints, as others are now doing. I am free to spend my time and share my opinions as I wish to as long as I abide policy. As soon as you asked specifically about how to contribute to the Wiki, I offered to help you, going as far as volunteering my vacation time that I spent with my family. You're right that there is little Platinum content, because I have added a majority of the content in the past 5 years, and I don't pretend to know anything about Platinum or Shattered. You asked for specific help, I offered it. If you want me to spend all of my free time elsewhere making mile long posts, or in the case of others, spending time engaging in conversations that I don't think are necessary, you have the wrong expectations of what my task is when it comes to the Wiki.

>Last I checked, this was a forum that anyone with a subscription could post on and join in on discussions.

yep, you share, I respond, that's how it works.

>Regardless of how ya feel, the perception exists. To be fair, I'm sure there are a bunch of folks that perceive you to be a generally friendly and helpful individual. You definitely can't please everyone all the time, nor should anyone realistically be expected to. I think you do care about others opinions otherwise I doubt you'd be spending so much time on the defensive.

If I cared so much about people's perceptions, I would change the way I behave and kowtow to everyone, but I don't, I'm very protective of my free time. I've spent so much time responding over the past few days because every situation is being generalized and I deserve the right to share my point of view and the specifics of each and every case publicly. I have also asked Wyrom to follow this closely and show him that the community is expecting me to be a 24-hour Simutronics customer care rep. That is not my task. The Wiki needs more support from the company, and me engaging in this discussion and getting to the bottom of each and every complaint is important to getting more help from staff to provide you and me with the help we need.

I take all of this a lot less personally than everyone else seems to. I do not address people the same as I do at work. You are asking of my time to write such detailed long posts, and I am free to say no. If you feel that direct means always aggressive, I cannot help you with that opinion. Again, none of that has to do with the Wiki.

>So why don't you tell me who has power now?

You. You are the lead moderator.

**********************
A quick flick of Wyrom's wrist sends a dagger into flight!
The thorny barrier surrounding you blocks Wyrom's attack!
One of the vines surrounding you lashes out at Wyrom, driving a thorn into his skin! Wyrom flinches slightly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers

These aren't Simu policy but they're helpful to keep in mind when editing wiki pages.

>I am a volunteer and I choose when I want to deal with someone and when I do not, and pretty much anyone posting complaints will now be dealt with directly by staff, until Wyrom puts his foot down about my treatment, because I am tired of the abuse, or people unable to separate my wiki work and my opinions.

Noted.

**********************
A quick flick of Wyrom's wrist sends a dagger into flight!
The thorny barrier surrounding you blocks Wyrom's attack!
One of the vines surrounding you lashes out at Wyrom, driving a thorn into his skin! Wyrom flinches slightly.

I'll be making some announcements after Kaikala and I have some time to talk about the recent situation.

---

Wyrom, PM